DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Tyrone_03

adrian522 wrote: »

20 Miles LSR done with last 3 @ M-Pace, happy with this run, went very well actually, last 3 miles were tough obviously but don't feel too bad after it,

http://www.strava.com/activities/199947408

Now that right there is a classic up and down run.

Well done.

gingersnap

Firedance wrote: »

Step back week for me so doing LSR tomorrow, decided to head to parkrun this morning as haven't been all summer, got a pb 25.30 so delighted with that :-)

Congrats on the pb! I really miss the parkruns since I started the marathon training. I'm looking forward to doing one when this is all over to see if all this long, slow running has actually made me slower over the 5k

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

Well, went out last night with the aim of completing a 20.2 Mile LSR.
Didn't do 20.2
But I did 21.

It was a lot easier than the 20 miles last weekend. Faster too.....not by much mind you. I am an embarrassingly slow runner these days (you'd barely even call it running half the time). I think there’s a few reasons why I felt better than last week. I didn’t have to hobble 3 miles with a painful knee, and I consciously pre-hydrated a lot better than I did last week....I fecked that up last week big-time. And apart from the occasional dart of pain, I didn't feel much pain from the injury that's been bothering me for the last 3 weeks or so. On my physio’s recommendation, I bought a knee stabilizer for the left knee on Thursday and that seemed to help me loads. I think I might even go back and buy another one for the other knee.

The hardest part of the run was not the last couple of miles, but actually the FIRST 2 miles where I had to stop 3 times. I had what felt like a big build-up of lactic acid in my lower legs. But not around the calves....around the shins. Weird. I thought I'd have to give up but it was grand after 2-3 miles. After those 3 stops, I felt like I was cheating a bit coz it was no longer gonna be 20.2 non-stop miles of 'running', which is why I increased the target to 21 miles - to compensate a bit.

As regards fluids and gels, I diluted the PowerBar Electrolyte tablets much more heavily than I did last week and it tasted OK. They're probably the exact same thing as the Nuun tablets. So at least psychologically, I don't feel like I am missing out on anything now. Gels; I feel like my body has actually figured out now how to process them efficiently. They seem to be helping me much more now. Viper Active Mixed Berry gels rock. Only thing is, between gels, plain water and the diluted electrolyte drink, I feel like I am carrying an awful lot of stuff at the start of a long run.

I bought a protein bar yesterday to eat after my run last night, it looked delicious in the wrapper. But....jeeez.....rank! :mad:

It'll be the last very long LSR next weekend. Gonna do 21.2 miles. I think I'd like to do it as a morning run next weekend instead of in my usual timeslot of Friday night – just to see how I get on with it after the breakfast I'll eat on the 27th.

Legs are very tired this morning and I had a terrible night’s sleep. But happy. Gonna rest now 'til Monday apart from a bit of stretching, foam rolling and some cross-training.

Well done Laois Man. Really glad to hear you had a good run and so many positives to be taken from it! I think it's a really delicate balance for you between doing the very long runs and niggles turning into something more serious so in my opinion, I wouldn't overdo the next lsr. You know now you can run 21 miles, so you'll be able to run 26.2. With a really good taper and super fresh legs you'll be feeling even better on the big day than you did for this one. I really really really want you to get to the start line healthy this year as I felt so sorry for you last year so you've got to play it extra safe from hereon. So imo, don't push the next lsr. Do 18 anyways and see how you are from there. (A lot of novice plans only have one 20 mile run).
You really are our Novice Drama Queen 2014:D:D:D
I always used to find those protein bars very rough on the stomach immediately after a lsr. Something like a banana or a few nuts or a cheese/meat/egg sandwich might be better and a drink of milk or similar. Hope you recovery well!

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

Had to rejig the plan this week as I couldn't fit a long run in this weekend.

8.5 miles @10min/mile pace on Monday. Lovely evening for a run and although the calves were a bit tight after the 20 miles last Saturday, they loosened up after a while and I really enjoyed this run.

Club training on Tuesday, 6 x 3 minute intervals. 6 miles in total with my extra running added in.

Did my LSR on Thursday evening. I usually do this first thing in the morning so I was a bit apprehensive. Also, with it getting dark that little bit earlier, I didn't want to go too far afield so looped locally. Well, I never knew it would be so hard to make up 18 miles like this! I passed my house four times (on different loops) and on the last one I had less than 2 miles to go and the temptation to just stop then was so hard. But I kept going and got the 18 miles in. Tired at the end as usual but strangely enough, the legs were ok until I stopped and started to walk. Then my calves were so sore I could hardly walk! It's made me rethink my strategy for the marathon. I was thinking that if I got too tired I would walk for a few minutes. Now I'm thinking I will just keep plodding along.

Good luck to everyone doing their LSR today, looks like a lovely morning for it.

That's actually a really good point and something I was going to bring up.
I ran the whole 26.2 without stopping. When I stopped at the finish line my legs felt really odd and like you I could hardly walk. I was SO GLAD I didn't stop earlier in the race to walk.
I think unless you're planning on regularly walking a little (at the drinks stations for instance) I wouldn't stop to walk for the first time in the last few miles unless I REALLY really had to. It would be very hard to get going again I'd imagine. So if finding things very tough from 18/20 miles onwards, I think rather than stop completely to walk/stand, just stay in a jogging motion but ease the pace right down to walking pace but keep on moving.
Obviously it's a different story if you HAVE to walk for whatever reason if in pain (I'm certain that's not gonna happen any of yiz!)
I remember reading before on one of these threads in previous years that if you get a cramp, that you might be better off speeding up for a few seconds rather than stopping to stretch as it might ease more quickly. Experienced people feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Well done on your run. Training seems to be going very well for you. Will you continue the interval runs with the club right up to the end?

Alan30

22 miles done at an average pace of 10:10 minute miles. I took 4 high 5 mixed berry isogels, no ill effects and I think they helped. Also had a bottle of lucozade diluted with water so that will be my strategy for the big day. The legs got heavy the last half mile or so but I think it's as much a mental thing when you see the finish and I reckon I could have pushed on the last 4 mile. It was also very hilly from about 10 mile on so a good workout.

Ososlo

Mimojo wrote: »

Morning all, really enjoying all the LSR reports this morning, well done everyone, inspiring stuff!

Hit off on my planned lsr early this morning and not long in the door. I had to switch weeks around so this was going to be my last proper lsr, so got prepared last night and laid out everything, and wore what I plan to wear on the day, eat my planned brekkie, etc.

Set off @ 6am (Im an early bird!) and took the advice that has been echoed here so many times, start off slow and pace yourself! Too many times on lsrs I start off too quickly and am wrecked by the end. So maintained an even pace of around 11:10 to 11:30 ish, and actually managed to hold it throughout, and ended up doing 21.2 Miles, longest run to date!! Just uploaded my stats and my pace was around about the same throughout the entire run...first time ever! I took 3 High 5 orange isogels with me and took them @ 6,12 & 18 miles and a handful of jelly beans in a zip lock bag and had a couple of them every now & then. Just water with them, used my new bottle and also have 2 small bottles on my running belt, which kinda annoyed me when I started using it first, but used to it now.

It was def my most successful lsr to date, it was a lovely morning, completely dry and not cold at all, but as I was out early I knew it wasnt going to get too sunny that early. I planned out my route well last night and did different loops so didnt get too bored. Stopped twice for a quick stretch and kept going. Didnt have any issues with my knee that I had a bit of bother with a few weeks ago & everything felt ok. Only thing out of the ordinary was I absolutely had to stop for a loo break around 2 hours in, first time it has happened to me out running, so lucky I was in a quiet road at the time with plenty of bushes lol!!

Legs actually feel ok now, going to have a cold bath in a while and take it handy for the day, and will go for a swim in the morning and get a few recovery miles in.

It was the first time that I actually felt that I had a bit left in the tank, other lsrs I literally got to my planned distance, almost crawling the last few miles, and stopped deal when my watch told me the distance had been reached! This was also my slowest run to date so that must be the key....slow and steady!! Now I dont know if I had a whole other 5 miles left in the tank!! I did the HM last weekend and was pretty tired after it, and was out running 3 times this week with 3 other gym sessions so its been quite a busy week. Had a rest day yesterday as I knew I had lsr this morning. So I am happy that I got the run done on tired legs. I am hoping if I taper properly before DCM I can get through this last 5 miles in one piece!

I have realised from reading this thread in the last few weeks that I dont really care how long it takes me to do DCM, just as long as I get around and enjoy it. I actually kind of enjoyed this mornings run, now it was incredibly challenging dont get me wrong, but a great sense of achievement all the time. My average pace to was 11:25 which is def not going to break any records but I am happy with it!

Vest best of luck to everyone doing their lsr today and tomorrow, happy running :-)

Great going! Lovely positive attitude too! Keep it up!

Ososlo

Alan30 wrote: »

22 miles done at an average pace of 10:10 minute miles. I took 4 high 5 mixed berry isogels, no ill effects and I think they helped. Also had a bottle of lucozade diluted with water so that will be my strategy for the big day. The legs got heavy the last half mile or so but I think it's as much a mental thing when you see the finish and I reckon I could have pushed on the last 4 mile. It was also very hilly from about 10 mile on so a good workout.

Great stuff Alan. All going in the right direction for you!
What's the target time for the big one or have you got one?

Alan30

Ososlo wrote: »

Great stuff Alan. All going in the right direction for you!
What's the target time for the big one or have you got one?

I will probably head out with the 4:10 pacers. I think I will make a definite decision next week. Thinking of doing the athlone 3/4 and going with the 9:00 min pacers for about 13/14 mile to see if I think that would be sustainable for 26 but I don't think I have it in me just yet and I want to enjoy the experience and come back for more.

laura_ac3

Hi all,

Not a great week for me running wise.

Sunday - rest day after the half the previous day

Monday - a slow 4 miles. Feeling a bit stiff so kept it slow

Tuesday - 6 miles. Was supposed to be 8 and slow. But I got very very good news that day so to get out for any run took alot of willpower, only had time for the 6. And I was a million miles away on cloud 9 so pace was all over the shop - I had a pep in my step.

Wednesday - sports massage to work on the hips. Sore!

Thursday - unplanned rest day. Family commitments meant I just didn't get out for the run I'd hoped to do.

Friday - planned rest day. Was still busy with family stuff but thought about trying to fit something in for missing the previous day. Legs still feeling the session from Wednesday. Didn't make the run.

Saturday - 18 mile lsr - supposed to be my second 20 though. Had company for the first 14 miles of this. I normally run by myself so was a nice change and a good test of my ability to hold a conversation. Was quicker than my normal lsr pace though - just distracted chatting. So was able to chat fine but I think my legs weren't used to the faster pace. After she left me I hit a bit of a wall, was hard to readjust to running by myself for the last few miles. Had to take one or two walk breaks and I called it quits at 18 miles. Hamstring felt like lead and hips were still not great. Thought it might be counter productive to see this one out unlike in other weeks. Still hopefully a decent session and will get the second 20 done next week (at my usual pace!) instead.

Happy running all and good to see the lsrs going well for people.

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done Laois Man. Really glad to hear you had a good run and so many positives to be taken from it! I think it's a really delicate balance for you between doing the very long runs and niggles turning into something more serious so in my opinion, I wouldn't overdo the next lsr. You know now you can run 21 miles, so you'll be able to run 26.2. With a really good taper and super fresh legs you'll be feeling even better on the big day than you did for this one. I really really really want you to get to the start line healthy this year as I felt so sorry for you last year so you've got to play it extra safe from hereon. So imo, don't push the next lsr. Do 18 anyways and see how you are from there. (A lot of novice plans only have one 20 mile run).
You really are our Novice Drama Queen 2014:D:D:D
I always used to find those protein bars very rough on the stomach immediately after a lsr. Something like a banana or a few nuts or a cheese/meat/egg sandwich might be better and a drink of milk or similar. Hope you recovery well!

Thanks!

Well since I am the novice drama queen, I won't be looking any further than the next run on Monday which will be 5 or 6 slow miles (not that I actually do any fast miles anymore ) - so I won't much consider next Saturday mornings LSR distance until about Friday night coz you never know the time nor the place from which my next drama will come. I am keeping perspective because even before week one, I honestly didn't believe that by the end of week 14, I would still be in with a chance of getting to the start line. If you remember, I always thought I needed another year and so I was targeting DCM-2015 and getting some way through this years plan was to be preparation for that. So I can't wait for taper to start and I won't complain if it starts early with me still on track.

It's great how the first time I did a 14 mile LSR in early July, I was nearly dead at the end of it. But the 14 mile LSR on the weekend of October 11th will feel like a big holiday now . Although admittedly, my LSR pace was a good bit faster back then.

Tigerandahalf

Well done everyone on the long runs.
Did another 20 miler today. Generally fine but legs were bit sluggish starting off.
Today I decided to take 4 gels in my running belt as per marathon day even though I would only use 2. The belt ended up bouncing a lot. It must have been the weight of extra gels. After a while I swung it around so the buckle was at the front with the gels at my back and it wasn't as bad. On the day I will have 2 gels eaten by 10 miles so maybe not too much of a problem.
Amazing how little things can go wrong. When I went to turn on my garmin it was dead even though I charged it after my last run. I held the 3 buttons for 30 seconds to reset and then pressed the power button and wolah it turned on. But all the power was drained. Was going to go without it but decided to charge it for half an hr and then head out. In fairness it lasted until after the 19th mile even though low battery was on around 10 miles.
I might do one more lsr before tapering. I have two 22s, two 20s, a 19 and 17 mile @mp runs done now. Just need to get the taper right now. Even though I feel well prepared those last 6 miles will be tough.

annapr

Ososlo wrote: »

That's actually a really good point and something I was going to bring up.
I ran the whole 26.2 without stopping. When I stopped at the finish line my legs felt really odd and like you I could hardly walk. I was SO GLAD I didn't stop earlier in the race to walk.


I had the same experience after my first long run. As soon as I stopped running i felt like a cripple, hobbling along at a very slow walk. My theory is that you're using different muscles or more likely the same tired muscles in different ways!

YourPaceOrMine

Nicsx wrote: »

21m LSR done today. Felt absolutely brilliant as we ran through the Park, the sun was out, no wind etc, etc, etc. I took a 2nd gel for the 1st time today at mile 16 & felt ok & then we turned down towards Crumlin & the wind picked up to greet us. We had thought we might try the last 3m at PMP but it was tough going. In the end, the pace crept up without me noticing & our last mile was actually the fastest of the day (even slightly under PMP) but that could have been the magnetic pull of home! Is it possible that the remnants of the half on Saturday is still in my legs?

Anyway, one not quite ice but cold water bath later I was ready for a quick trip to town with my mum- now that takes endurance! :-)

Yesterday was the first good run I had in 4 weeks. Been having a bit of trouble with my leg over the last while and really started struggling with the pace that was comfortable for me all summer. Maybe my body had to work harder to compensate for my dodgy leg? I was worried, but after 3 visits to a chiropractor it seems to be on the mend! I was back to my old self yesterday. I had lost all faith in my ability to run this marathon at anything faster than training pace. Maybe yesterday was just a good day but it's given me such a lift, last 4 miles were (for me) marathon pace with mile 21 being the fastest of the day. I could have kept going my legs felt that good, amazing what a good run does for your confidence

annapr

25k done today without going completely astray in Berlin. Slowest LSR I have done so far, 6:50/km average pace. Not because of brilliant pacing... Because of tired legs, having to stop to figure out where I was and crowds in the city centre.

Decided to follow the river Spree, which was all working very well until it suddenly morphed into a canal and on the way back it was a 3-way wasser junction. Luckily I picked the right waterway to follow home. Some lovely trails along the river and lots of steps up and down to get over bridges.

Had the thrill of finishing up near the start of the Berlin marathon... Ran under the start gantry, woo hoo. Couldn't get near the Brandenburg gate, all cordoned off. Saw the inline skaters making their way to the start of their marathon.

Feet are sore now, but all went well. Off to find the hurling now.

laura_ac3

annapr wrote: »

25k done today without going completely astray in Berlin. Slowest LSR I have done so far, 6:50/km average pace. Not because of brilliant pacing... Because of tired legs, having to stop to figure out where I was and crowds in the city centre.

Decided to follow the river Spree, which was all working very well until it suddenly morphed into a canal and on the way back it was a 3-way wasser junction. Luckily I picked the right waterway to follow home. Some lovely trails along the river and lots of steps up and down to get over bridges.

Had the thrill of finishing up near the start of the Berlin marathon... Ran under the start gantry, woo hoo. Couldn't get near the Brandenburg gate, all cordoned off. Saw the inline skaters making their way to the start of their marathon.

Feet are sore now, but all went well. Off to find the hurling now.

Enjoy the trip and good luck to murph_d!

NyOmnishambles

Well done to everyone on their long runs

Keep up the hard work

My bruised toe is still fcuked, pretty certain it is just a bruise and nothing more serious but it reacted badly to my run on Wednesday so I am going to rest it for a while, middle of the week at least and hopefully will be back in action then

Gutted to miss a long run and will have to get a 20 mile in over the next couple of weeks but we will see how it goes, the most important thing is to make the finish line

Think I injured it going down hill on the Khyber road when it was all congested and we couldn't stride properly so I was a bit on my toes, obviously the other 12 miles after that didn't help

frash

Foot still sore after the 20 miles today.

Google says it's metatarsalgia

Haven't registered for the marathon as yet - was waiting until I got the 20 miles done but now I'm thinking would my foot be able for the 26?

Had it before after another long run (think it was the 18.5 miler) and it goes after a few days rest (hence me taking 3 days off before the half last week - to make sure it was well rested.) It was a bit sore after the half but only for a day.

Anyone ever had it?
I don't really have a physio that I go to.
Have heard talk on here of seeing 'ecoli' but think that was just for the massages - or is he a physio?

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

Foot still sore after the 20 miles today.

Google says it's metatarsalgia

Haven't registered for the marathon as yet - was waiting until I got the 20 miles done but now I'm thinking would my foot be able for the 26?

Had it before after another long run (think it was the 18.5 miler) and it goes after a few days rest (hence me taking 3 days off before the half last week - to make sure it was well rested.) It was a bit sore after the half but only for a day.

Anyone ever had it?
I don't really have a physio that I go to.
Have heard talk on here of seeing 'ecoli' but think that was just for the massages - or is he a physio?

yep pm him and he'll sort ya out along with the other 55,000 boardsies he's currently treating:D:D

gingersnap

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done on your run. Training seems to be going very well for you. Will you continue the interval runs with the club right up to the end?

Thanks Ososlo, so far so good with the training but I am not going to breaking any records on the day

I was doing two club sessions but have decided to drop the Thursday tempo session and just do 6-8 miles by myself. I was thinking of continuing with the speed session on the Tuesday, at least for the next couple of weeks. I haven't really thought about the taper yet. Would it be better to drop the speed sessions for the last couple of weeks before DCM?

menoscemo

frash wrote: »

Anyone ever had it?
I don't really have a physio that I go to.
Have heard talk on here of seeing 'ecoli' but think that was just for the massages - or is he a physio?

Well he fixed my foot a few weeks ago anyway....
Never use DrGoogle to diagnose an injury like this, at least 2 times I swore I had a stress fracture in my foot but both times it was just a tight tendon that was easily fixed. (Most likely you have an overuse injury).

You may as well enter the marathon btw, if you got 20 miles done today you will finish 26.2 in 4 weeks...

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo, so far so good with the training but I am not going to breaking any records on the day

I was doing two club sessions but have decided to drop the Thursday tempo session and just do 6-8 miles by myself. I was thinking of continuing with the speed session on the Tuesday, at least for the next couple of weeks. I haven't really thought about the taper yet. Would it be better to drop the speed sessions for the last couple of weeks before DCM?

Personally I would drop them. IMO I don't think they'll benefit you for the marathon at that point and are just an injury risk. I'd leave them out when you start tapering.

Ososlo

On this day in exactly one month you'll all be tired, happy, drunk marathoners:D

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

On this day in exactly one month you'll all be tired, happy, drunk marathoners:D

I hope you're right!!!! If nothing else I plan to be drunk as my birthday is the next day :-D

gingersnap

Ososlo wrote: »

Personally I would drop them. IMO I don't think they'll benefit you for the marathon at that point and are just an injury risk. I'd leave them out when you start tapering.

That is what I will do then.

I have to say I don't think I could be where I am with my training without the advice and support on this thread. Thanks a mill Ososlo

Darren 83

No lsr for me this week dreaded man flu, better now than later I guess?

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

I hope you're right!!!! If nothing else I plan to be drunk as my birthday is the next day :-D

Super! Well I hope you'll be able to get out of bed on your birthday. You might have to blow out the candles in bed:D

Ososlo

Darren 83 wrote: »

No lsr for me this week dreaded man flu, better now than later I guess?

Yes much better it happen now. Count yourself lucky! Get well soon.

Looking for advice 2013

Hi,

I've been training for my first marathon for several months and I did my longest run today 30km. I'm following the a Novice plan. I haven't registered for the marathon yet but I'm wondering if I'm cut out for it. Is it normal to have sore legs at this stage when doing the long runs. Should I cut back on my weekly run distance or maybe I'm just not ready for a marathon. What do you think?

Ososlo

Looking for advice 2013 wrote: »

Hi,

I've been training for my first marathon for several months and I did my longest run today 30km. I'm following the a Novice plan. I haven't registered for the marathon yet but I'm wondering if I'm cut out for it. Is it normal to have sore legs at this stage when doing the long runs. Should I cut back on my weekly run distance or maybe I'm just not ready for a marathon. What do you think?

Hi there. Yes it would be normal enough to be a bit sore. Maybe a massage might help you.
Is it the Boards Plan you're following?
Are you running nice and slowly (a lot slower than planned marathon pace) on these runs? At a nice easy conversational effort? I don't know if you've been following the thread but have a read of Post 2 of this thread on the pace/effort you should be running your different runs at.
How long have you been running and what's your mileage been like over the past few months?

Looking for advice 2013

Thank you for the feedback. My long runs are very slow about 90secs slower than race pace. When I say my legs hurt it's when I'm running. I've no injures or anything just very tired legs. I've been following the Hal Higdon Novice M programme.