DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Looking for advice 2013 wrote: »

Thank you for the feedback. My long runs are very slow about 90secs slower than race pace. When I say my legs hurt it's when I'm running. I've no injures or anything just very tired legs. I've been following the Hal Higdon Novice M programme.

Maybe your legs are tired from previous runs and you haven't fully recovered.
If you haven't had a massage maybe schedule one in for next week. They can really rejuvenate the legs. If it helps then you could have one a week between now and the 27th if finances allow.
Obviously rest the legs well after the long run and ice any really sore spots and elevate them over the level of your heart and it might ease it a bit. Some people find a cold bath great either.
Make sure you're getting in some protein and carbohydrate within 20 mins of finishing the long run to aid recovery.
If possible you could do some of the run on a softer surface like grass or trail.

hillsiderunner

Great to hear about all the successful Long Runs.

Not to be left out I did my LSR today - 22.55 miles finished off in the dark about two hours ago. Delighted to have it out of the way by Saturday. The week of running has been pretty good so far - Tuesday and Wednesday's runs were a bit difficult, probably affected by DCHM fatigue, but Friday's and today went according to plan. 41.85 miles so far and still 4 or 5 recovery miles planned for tomorrow! Serious mileage :-)

Only one negative point .... niggles. The ITB has settled down and has not been giving any trouble (all runs except today's have been done on flattish routes, with some sections of grass/clay. This was to baby the ITB, and it's working!). But a new pair-of-niggles started on the other leg after DCHM. It started with a tight twinge on the inner side of my right calf muscle early this week, not terrible but enough to be felt when starting to walk/run ... that has continued but for the past couple of days I've been feeling low-level pain/weakness along the front of the shin on that leg :-(. I know that could be the start of "shin splints", but I've never had them before... and the advice for those is to rest :-(. This evening when I started my LSR the calf was very stiff/soreish for about 200m and though it improved after that it took about 3 miles before I felt that leg was really warmed up for the run. Had no problems at all for the remainder of the 22.5 (shin never made itself felt) except around 18miles, when I noticed a bit of stiffness after I stopped to fish my water bottle out from the hedge where it had been hiding... and now back at the ranch I notice that leg is a bit weak/painful when I put all my weight on it. Am hoping to do 4-5 miles recovery tomorrow, and then Monday is a day off..... hope that will sort it. I would be sorry to have to dial back next week's training as I was planning to re-do this week again and I feel I could do with the mileage....

I'm not trying to compete with Laois_Man here! Think he has the edge on me for injuries anyway (well done on that LSR btw).

This week's running:

Tuesday pm (7.2 miles total): 1.6 w/u, 4x 650m repeats, 4miles c/d
[Repeats were at 2:50,2:47,2:46,2:51. This is a bit slower than usual, and my form on the 4th one was *terrible*. I think this was DCHM still in the legs, so I actually skipped the 5th rep, and did a longer c/d. All the w/u, c/d miles were untimed and very comfortable]

Wed pm: 4.1 miles slow
[This run also untimed. Felt slow, but not as comfortable as I expected]

Friday lunch (delayed from Thursday): 8.02 miles, steady/comfortable, @ 8:45 avg pace.
[Felt quite comfortable throughout this. Kept all individual miles between 8:39 and 8:49 except the final one at 8:33. Was lovely to be able to knock out an 8mile run at this pace and feel so comfortable... that's the effect of all those long runs I think]

Saturday pm: 22.55 miles @ avg pace 9:46, partly hilly route.
[Apart from the warming-up of the right leg, and the weakness after the run, this one went fine. The middle section was 3 laps of a 4.2 circuit which has a couple of longish uphill and downhill drags on it, so the pace was not entirely consistent. All the same no mile was more than 40 secs away from the average pace. I had originally planned to do 21 miles and to pick up the pace to 9:00 for the final 5 miles. I wasn't sure I had it in me so instead I changed my mind, and added an extra mile instead. I felt quite comfortable at the end, not "leggy" at all, and think I could have knocked out a couple of extra miles at that same pace. Took some jelly babies at 9.6 miles and 18.2, and a High5 gel at 15miles.... they caused a bit of 'repeating' but no other issues and I think that the repeating will be the case with anything sweet I take mid-run]

Haven't done my stretching yet after tonight's run but will definitely do it before sleep!

hillsiderunner

frash wrote: »

Foot still sore after the 20 miles today.

Google says it's metatarsalgia

Haven't registered for the marathon as yet - was waiting until I got the 20 miles done but now I'm thinking would my foot be able for the 26?

Had it before after another long run (think it was the 18.5 miler) and it goes after a few days rest (hence me taking 3 days off before the half last week - to make sure it was well rested.) It was a bit sore after the half but only for a day.

Anyone ever had it?
I don't really have a physio that I go to.
Have heard talk on here of seeing 'ecoli' but think that was just for the massages - or is he a physio?

Frash, few months ago I had a bit of tenderness/weakness in one foot. Found the metatarsalgia online but my symptoms didn't seem severe enough. When I went to the physio she was pretty sure I had neither metatarsalgia nor any stress fracture, and was not too worried about my symptoms. It did go away after a couple of weeks....

So could just be a precursor to metatarsalagia which will not necessarily turn into the real thing :-)

Ososlo

^^^^ well done Hillsiderunner. Don't be afraid to drop the recovery run tomorrow and have a few days off completely to let everything settle. That might be all you need. A recovery run is great if it's really assisting recovery but if it's just gonna aggravate things a tad more then it's not gonna be of any benefit really.
Great week of training!

MLC_biker

Planned a 20 m LSR today, even had a route mapped yesterday. Headed out around 9am, feeling fine the first 10 miles. Forgot the plan, ended up doing 23 miles :-) Legs a bit achy the last few miles., left foot a bit sore, Achilles as well so off to physio Tuesday. Will rest up til next weekend LSR, maybe do a bit of cycling and swimming instead of shorter runs

hillsiderunner

Ososlo wrote: »

^^^^ well done Hillsiderunner. Don't be afraid to drop the recovery run tomorrow and have a few days off completely to let everything settle. That might be all you need. A recovery run is great if it's really assisting recovery but if it's just gonna aggravate things a tad more then it's not gonna be of any benefit really.
Great week of training!

Thanks Ososlo. I'll see how it feels tomorrow before deciding for sure ... apart from the niggle I'm happy with my week. Only a couple of days to decide whether to sign up now! (definitely yes unless something escalates in the next day or two)

crisco10

Lovely to read all the lsr reports! Most defo not on my own!

Was delighted with my own. .After calendar and injury issues, I had done 16 mile lsr onmMonday. But after a few days easy running I felt like I could go ahead with 20mile lsr on Saturday. Started nice and gentle based on my revised 3:30/3:40 goal. Also tried out gels and clothing for marathon day. No chaffing or stomach pains so all good. Basically took 3 gels, 50mins, 90 mins, 120mins.
Did last 5 mile at mp. (8min/mile) which felt ok. Was busy for rest of day with no ill effects. So very happy.

Now to see how this week goes. Would like to go 20mile plus again next week but afraid of over doing it?

aquinn

Morning!
Well done on all the weekends running.
I got my 20LSR done yesterday.
Woke at 8 and had all gear ready yet still didn't leave the house until 9. Breakfast was banana and jellies.
I did as much of the route as I could as was reading on the main thread what a long, hard drag the start was so gave it a lash.
I ran to the top of O'Connell St and then the whole way down the Quays and up Chesterfield Avenue, bit of map reading at the exit to find out where too next. There was a lot of map reading/p!ssing about and finding out where I was going. I ran from Castleknock into Chapelizod. Went down a VERY steep hill but when I stopped to ask for more directions in Chapelizod I'm told that hill isn't on it and that I should have gone back into the park. I then discovered a few inclines I hadn't expected but managed to make it to Crumlin and that got me to 12 miles. Took a gel at 7 and 12 and both fine. Tried a few jellies and choked each time. The drink of the day was the high 5 citrus tab and it was great. Re-filled with water at mile 16 which I never do and the drink was great. Not heavy at all.
My legs were tired but head ok which would then be more ideal on race day compared to last weekend when legs were ok but head wasn't. I'm sorry now I stopped so much as was 20 mins plus. Was very worried for most of the run that legs were so tired and this was last longest run that I should do another 20 next weekend.
Moving Time: 3:12:41
Elapsed Time: 3:34:44
Avg Pace: 9:38 min/mi
I then didn't have time to stretch/foam roll or ice bath myself as when I got home the dog was missing so panic for a few hours and TF she was found safe and well so the run was nothing compared to that trauma. TF for microchipping.
My legs and body are ok today.
The new Filament shorts were brilliant, also wore the race sleeves and found them fantastic. T-shirt still to be decided but the HM one was actually grand. A lot of body glide was applied beforehand in case.

Casey78

19 miles done for me this morning.
Went well and averaged 9'30 a mile. Can't believe I have only 1 more long run left!!
Its getting close now!
Pretty much made up my mind I'm going with the 4:10 pacers.

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

19 miles done for me this morning.
Went well and averaged 9'30 a mile. Can't believe I have only 1 more long run left!!
Its getting close now!
Pretty much made up my mind I'm going with the 4:10 pacers.

Great running but you pretty much ran 19 miles faster than marathon pace a month out from DCM:eek::eek::eek: I don't think any advanced plans would even have runners doing that.
If that was truly a comfortable relaxed conversational effort this morning then you'd easily be able to go sub 4 which doesn't really add up when looking at your half marathon time. (2:02 I think). Maybe I'm missing something. Apologies if so!

Ososlo

aquinn wrote: »

Morning!
Well done on all the weekends running.
I got my 20LSR done yesterday.
Woke at 8 and had all gear ready yet still didn't leave the house until 9. Breakfast was banana and jellies.
I did as much of the route as I could as was reading on the main thread what a long, hard drag the start was so gave it a lash.
I ran to the top of O'Connell St and then the whole way down the Quays and up Chesterfield Avenue, bit of map reading at the exit to find out where too next. There was a lot of map reading/p!ssing about and finding out where I was going. I ran from Castleknock into Chapelizod. Went down a VERY steep hill but when I stopped to ask for more directions in Chapelizod I'm told that hill isn't on it and that I should have gone back into the park. I then discovered a few inclines I hadn't expected but managed to make it to Crumlin and that got me to 12 miles. Took a gel at 7 and 12 and both fine. Tried a few jellies and choked each time. The drink of the day was the high 5 citrus tab and it was great. Re-filled with water at mile 16 which I never do and the drink was great. Not heavy at all.
My legs were tired but head ok which would then be more ideal on race day compared to last weekend when legs were ok but head wasn't. I'm sorry now I stopped so much as was 20 mins plus. Was very worried for most of the run that legs were so tired and this was last longest run that I should do another 20 next weekend.
Moving Time: 3:12:41
Elapsed Time: 3:34:44
Avg Pace: 9:38 min/mi
I then didn't have time to stretch/foam roll or ice bath myself as when I got home the dog was missing so panic for a few hours and TF she was found safe and well so the run was nothing compared to that trauma. TF for microchipping.
My legs and body are ok today.
The new Filament shorts were brilliant, also wore the race sleeves and found them fantastic. T-shirt still to be decided but the HM one was actually grand. A lot of body glide was applied beforehand in case.

Brilliant running!
Delighted you found your dog. Very stressful I'd imagine,..
You decided on marathon target time yet? Will you follow pacers?

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

Lovely to read all the lsr reports! Most defo not on my own!

Was delighted with my own. .After calendar and injury issues, I had done 16 mile lsr onmMonday. But after a few days easy running I felt like I could go ahead with 20mile lsr on Saturday. Started nice and gentle based on my revised 3:30/3:40 goal. Also tried out gels and clothing for marathon day. No chaffing or stomach pains so all good. Basically took 3 gels, 50mins, 90 mins, 120mins.
Did last 5 mile at mp. (8min/mile) which felt ok. Was busy for rest of day with no ill effects. So very happy.

Now to see how this week goes. Would like to go 20mile plus again next week but afraid of over doing it?

Well done. Things looking good for you. If you could leave it until Friday or so I'd say you'd be grand getting in another 20 depending on recovery.

Casey78

Ososlo wrote: »

Great running but you pretty much ran 19 miles faster than marathon pace a month out from DCM:eek::eek::eek: I don't think any advanced plans would even have runners doing that.
If that was truly a comfortable relaxed conversational effort this morning then you'd easily be able to go sub 4 which doesn't really add up when looking at your half marathon time. (2:02 I think). Maybe I'm missing something. Apologies if so!

I turned off the pace display on my watch and ran by feel so only saw pace when I uploaded to laptop.
I certainly wasn't racing or out of breath and could have ran a few more miles.
My HM time is a bit deceiving as I slowed down deliberately at 10 miles as I felt a niggle in my leg and really only jogged to the finish.
I was on for a 1:54 or something up until then.
Pretty happy to go with 4:10 pacers for my first Marathon and at least I can be fairly confident I'll finish.

Corrib man

Lsr of 19 miles done, legs felt heavy from 14 onwards, not overly happy with my morning but had a long day at work y'day so that cud have effected things this morning. Bit of rest and a couple of short runs (5-8 miles) before athlone on Sunday. Better days ahead hopefully. Well done to all who are hitting their goals.

aquinn

Ososlo wrote: »

Brilliant running!
Delighted you found your dog. Very stressful I'd imagine,..
You decided on marathon target time yet? Will you follow pacers?

Thanks a million. I shouldn't have stopped so much looking for the route as wasted a lot of time but then I was happy that I did a lot of the route. Will do something similar next weekend. I brought my leap card so at least I didn't have to use that :-).
Yesterday as my legs were tired my aim was don't be so hard on myself as first marathon and just to finish is amazing. I'll start with the 4.00 and try to stick with them and try not go too hard on myself if I drop back. Just need decent sleep in the run up to the race and I'll be ok.
My calves have been very tight this week so have to work them out a lot more.
The dog hunt wasn't nice at all. Can't believe she is ok and NOT bothered! huh.

Ososlo

aquinn wrote: »

Thanks a million. I shouldn't have stopped so much looking for the route as wasted a lot of time but then I was happy that I did a lot of the route. Will do something similar next weekend. I brought my leap card so at least I didn't have to use that :-).
Yesterday as my legs were tired my aim was don't be so hard on myself as first marathon and just to finish is amazing. I'll start with the 4.00 and try to stick with them and try not go too hard on myself if I drop back. Just need decent sleep in the run up to the race and I'll be ok.
My calves have been very tight this week so have to work them out a lot more.
The dog hunt wasn't nice at all. Can't believe she is ok and NOT bothered! huh.

4 hours should be very doable for you. You have the right attitude though about not putting too much pressure on yourself so you're well set up for a great day out in the city and environs:D Your dog has a nice chillaxed attitude too:D:D
Do you have the grid foam roller? I find it very good to work the calves. Try schedule a massage too if possible.

Pacing Mule

Step back LSRs are deadly

12 done this morning, 5 easy, 6@MP and 1 @10k pace. Good confidence booster after last week for me.

Question time though !

I've been having issues with my back - shoulder blades area in particular after long runs. Obviously I'm running too tensely up there. Is there any recommended excercise or stretch that can be done mid run to loosen these out ?

Reesy

Hi all,

Just finished a 34km LSR (knackered!) at 06:10 min / km. Ended up with sore thighs and soreness around the knuckle behind my big toe. Will be OK for the marathon though, I think. Hope all your LSRs went well this w/e.

Tapering from here on in, which sounds great! Am doing the Cardiff half marathon next Sunday, then some shorter LSRs and maybe I'll attempt to go a bit quicker on short runs in between times.

Had to go up a half size in my runners last week cos feet were swelling on LSRs, but the new ones worked fine.

Have been experimenting with honey as fuel during the race - 2 tablespoons of, in a corner of a freezer bag, tied off tight & the bag snipped off. Bite & suck while running. Works well for me but you gotta like the taste of honey! Needs water to wash it down, of course.

Ososlo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Step back LSRs are deadly

12 done this morning, 5 easy, 6@MP and 1 @10k pace. Good confidence booster after last week for me.

Question time though !

I've been having issues with my back - shoulder blades area in particular after long runs. Obviously I'm running too tensely up there. Is there any recommended excercise or stretch that can be done mid run to loosen these out ?

I've been doing a lot of reading on running form lately. One thing that's mentioned a lot as a contributing factor to neck and upper back strain/aches when running and after running is that the hands are too tensed up when running. I've recently started really focusing on relaxing my hands and this in turn seems to help relax between the shoulder blades. Shake out the arms regularly too.

Ososlo

Reesy wrote: »

Hi all,

Just finished a 34km LSR (knackered!) at 06:10 min / km. Ended up with sore thighs and soreness around the knuckle behind my big toe. Will be OK for the marathon though, I think. Hope all your LSRs went well this w/e.

Tapering from here on in, which sounds great! Am doing the Cardiff half marathon next Sunday, then some shorter LSRs and maybe I'll attempt to go a bit quicker on short runs in between times.

Had to go up a half size in my runners last week cos feet were swelling on LSRs, but the new ones worked fine.

Have been experimenting with honey as fuel during the race - 2 tablespoons of, in a corner of a freezer bag, tied off tight & the bag snipped off. Bite & suck while running. Works well for me but you gotta like the taste of honey! Needs water to wash it down, of course.

Did you decide to race that half or take it easy and treat it more like a long slow run (it being so close to the main event?)

SamforMayo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Step back LSRs are deadly

12 done this morning, 5 easy, 6@MP and 1 @10k pace. Good confidence booster after last week for me.

Question time though !

I've been having issues with my back - shoulder blades area in particular after long runs. Obviously I'm running too tensely up there. Is there any recommended excercise or stretch that can be done mid run to loosen these out ?

I find I have to remind myself mid run to drop the shoulders and relax the arms. I think there is a section in Ososlo s AIS exercises on shoulders and neck.

Casey78

Marathon world record broken in Berlin today.
2:02:57 !!
Something for us all to aim for in 4 weeks time

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

Marathon world record broken in Berlin today.
2:02:57 !!
Something for us all to aim for in 4 weeks time

epic stuff alright! What really annoys me is that I haven't heard one mention of it in the media yet today...........

aquinn

Do you have the grid foam roller? I find it very good to work the calves. Try schedule a massage too if possible.[/QUOTE]

I have a Beast foam roller! It's like the Grid and I have a normal one that I've been starting to use as so much less painful. If my friend Peter in Functional Training saw how tight my calves are again after that torture of him easing them out. I'll be booking back in with him anyway in the next few weeks and will find a massage too. Thanks.
Amazing time in Berlin Marathon, what a time!

Pacing Mule

Ososlo wrote: »

epic stuff alright! What really annoys me is that I haven't heard one mention of it in the media yet today...........

Little slow off the mark here. It's up on RTE now.

Firedance

Ditto yay for aquinns dog being found, wood lose my life if my mutt went missing

Did my 12 miles today & was def paying for yesterdays parkrun shenanigans! Also ran with a group who were going faster than id have gone if alone so I'm sore & tired now but happy enough. As per advice to someone else on here in going to drop club sessions from here on in - Athlone 3/4 on this Sunday which I'm looking forward to as itll be my last very long run & taper starts yipee :-)

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

Ditto yay for aquinns dog being found, wood lose my life if my mutt went missing

Did my 12 miles today & was def paying for yesterdays parkrun shenanigans! Also ran with a group who were going faster than id have gone if alone so I'm sore & tired now but happy enough. As per advice to someone else on here in going to drop club sessions from here on in - Athlone 3/4 on this Sunday which I'm looking forward to as itll be my last very long run & taper starts yipee :-)

yeah I was gonna pretend I didn't see that;)
Everyone's just got to be really careful from now on. It'd be a shame after all these months and months of really hard training to throw your race away for the sake of doing something that's too risky at this point. Eyes on the prize folks, eyes on the prize. You might get away with racing and doing speed sessions this close to DCM if you're very experienced but most of us are relatively new to running so the best thing to do is to just focus on the plan and stick to it rigidly from now on* and not do anything extra that might jeopardise things.
*Unless you feel niggles, in which case you'd be better off dropping the odd run.

Firedance

Yep, you're right! Best behaviour from now on!

SoundoftheSea

LSR of 12 miles done but I am such a twat it was suppose to be 14.

Have all the clothes sorted picked up a pair of 3/4 length tights in heatons, Karrimor.
Large pocket, fits three large gels and very light material.
Going for a massage this week and then hoping to do 22 miles next week.
Then my sister arrives from Boston the following week so we will do are last few runs together.
She is the one that got me running so doing this one together. (We walked it in 2010, my fault so need to make it up too her)
She ran to mile 23 in the Boston marathon on that dreaded day. She then automatically qualified to compete last year.
It will be the best feeling ever to cross the finish line together.

Booked hotel also.

Dub13

After the half last week the plan was to take it easy this week and not do any tempo/speed work till Thursday or Friday. As I was in Liverpool yesterday I moved my rest day to yesterday as it suited plus I am back over in Liverpool next week so need to have 2 rest days on Saturday's.

Slow runs up till Thursday and while out on that run I just did not feel like the next day the legs would have speed work in them, so I decided to listen to my body and bin my planned speed session on Friday. Then the more I taught about it I was thinking its a few months since I had 2 rest days in a row and I think this would be better for me than a run of the mill 6/8 extra slow miles on Friday.

I think this shows I have 'matured' a bit plan wise, as even at the start of this plan I would have been a slave to the plan and done it to the letter. With the last run been lunchtime on Thursday and todays run at lunchtime today it actually worked out as 72 hours rest, with next week been peek mileage week for me this will hopefully help big time. I still managed a 53 mile week with 2 rest days so not so bad.

So just in a while from my 6th 20 mile LSR, next week is 22 mile LSR then the taper...:):):)

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/601043734