DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

smashiner

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Very similar story here. Am down nearly 2 stone from January and heading for 4 from heaviest. I had targeted a 12 in the first column for DCM and am expecting to see that in next two weeks

Great stuff Pacing Mule,
That is some drop in weight....so much easier to run! 4 stone is truly a 'Transformation', u must be chuffed :-)

U will have to change your name to ' Thoroughbred Horse' soon!!
Best of luck in the DCM.....we will be in the Elite section by the end of the month :-)))

Kop On

Had a horrendous experience on Saturday, while doing an 18 miler at 10:40 (ish) pace
- Legs started chafing after 3 miles. Applied Vaseline but the damage was done!
- Stupidly did 2 fast miles at miles 12 and 13 of 9:00 and completely burned myself out.
- Miles 16 and 17 were hell then, dragged myself to the finish at 12:30 pace.
- Eventually finished with a time of 3hrs 17mins. No way could I have gone on.
- Could hardly move or speak from pure exhaustion for 2 hours afterwards, confidence was severely hit after it.

Did 5 miles on Monday just to clear the head and decided today I would tackle the demons again so brought my 20 miler for this Saturday forward to today.

Completely different experience today, learned valuable lessons from Saturday about keeping a steady pace throughout, wearing cycle shorts to avoid chafing and having a small bit of food and gel before mile 15 to give me the boost I didn't have for miles 16-18.

On a tougher course with hills (Mobhi Road and Ballymun Road) at miles 17-19, I got through it today and finished my 20 miles in 3hrs 34mins much more comfortably.

The last 6 miles will still be bloody tough but at least I've restored my confidence and now know what I'm capable of over 20 miles.

I reckon if I go out with the 4hr 40min pacers on the day I should be ok.

annapr

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Very similar story here. Am down nearly 2 stone from January and heading for 4 from heaviest. I had targeted a 12 in the first column for DCM and am expecting to see that in next two weeks

What am I doing wrong????? I keep waiting for this magic effect but have lost maybe 1lb!!! I'm consoling myself by telling myself that the weight has transferred from belly fat to calf muscle, and muscles weigh more...

AuldManKing

Kop On wrote: »

Had a horrendous experience on Saturday, while doing an 18 miler at 10:40 (ish) pace
- Legs started chafing after 3 miles. Applied Vaseline but the damage was done!
- Stupidly did 2 fast miles at miles 12 and 13 of 9:00 and completely burned myself out.
- Miles 16 and 17 were hell then, dragged myself to the finish at 12:30 pace.
- Eventually finished with a time of 3hrs 17mins. No way could I have gone on.
- Could hardly move or speak from pure exhaustion for 2 hours afterwards, confidence was severely hit after it.

Did 5 miles on Monday just to clear the head and decided today I would tackle the demons again so brought my 20 miler for this Saturday forward to today.

Completely different experience today, learned valuable lessons from Saturday about keeping a steady pace throughout, wearing cycle shorts to avoid chafing and having a small bit of food and gel before mile 15 to give me the boost I didn't have for miles 16-18.

On a tougher course with hills (Mobhi Road and Ballymun Road) at miles 17-19, I got through it today and finished my 20 miles in 3hrs 34mins much more comfortably.

The last 6 miles will still be bloody tough but at least I've restored my confidence and now know what I'm capable of over 20 miles.

I reckon if I go out with the 4hr 40min pacers on the day I should be ok.

You got away with it this time, but its not a good idea to do 2 20 mile runs within a few days of each other.
Glad that the run on Wednesday worked out though - good to get the confidence back so soon.

Think about how you approached the 2 runs from a nutrition, sleep and mental state - compare to see if there was anything different??

if not - its just one of those things that running throws at us every now & then.

Recovery runs for the next few days or you will risk injury.

smashiner

annapr wrote: »

What am I doing wrong????? I keep waiting for this magic effect but have lost maybe 1lb!!! I'm consoling myself by telling myself that the weight has transferred from belly fat to calf muscle, and muscles weigh more...

I actually found that I wasn't eating enough! Sounds mad, but I found that a combination of plenty of water (with a drop of blackcurrant for me) and regular small meals such as a sandwich or a bananna seemed to help me. I was probably eating too much at the one sitting and not regular enough throughout the day.
Recently I have stopped having cups of tea and 6 digestives at 9pm and that also seemed to help......not sure why :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Pacing Mule

annapr wrote: »

What am I doing wrong????? I keep waiting for this magic effect but have lost maybe 1lb!!! I'm consoling myself by telling myself that the weight has transferred from belly fat to calf muscle, and muscles weigh more...

You could well be right. I know for example my body shape rather than weight compared to previous times I've weighed the same has been much slimmer this time round. I looked at a pic of myself "running" DCM 2012 when I hit the same weight and I looked much heavier than how I was looking at the time. It's 100% clear to me that muscle tone is most definitely a factor.

What has "worked" for me is probably largely influenced by starting weight which was 17 stone at peak so I had more to lose - you may find my 2 stone this year as a percentage is smaller than someone else who lost 1.

Excercise had obviously improved things. No better calorie burner than a long run !

Eating wise - I put a lot of my success down to a program called slimming world that Mrs Mule became involved in. At first glance it's like weight watchers and unislim etc but in reality it's not. I've eaten as much as I wanted in the last year. Haven't been hungry from a diet once. Have eaten more as the demands of the longer runs came in. And havent had to give up potatoes, pasta and rice etc that are usually heavily curtailed on other diets. I know that sounds like an advert blurb for them but it's just my experience of it.

adrian522

Mileage for the week so far : 26.2

Just sayin

Joleigh

Kop On wrote: »

Had a horrendous experience on Saturday, while doing an 18 miler at 10:40 (ish) pace
- Legs started chafing after 3 miles. Applied Vaseline but the damage was done!
- Stupidly did 2 fast miles at miles 12 and 13 of 9:00 and completely burned myself out.
- Miles 16 and 17 were hell then, dragged myself to the finish at 12:30 pace.
- Eventually finished with a time of 3hrs 17mins. No way could I have gone on.
- Could hardly move or speak from pure exhaustion for 2 hours afterwards, confidence was severely hit after it.

Did 5 miles on Monday just to clear the head and decided today I would tackle the demons again so brought my 20 miler for this Saturday forward to today.

Completely different experience today, learned valuable lessons from Saturday about keeping a steady pace throughout, wearing cycle shorts to avoid chafing and having a small bit of food and gel before mile 15 to give me the boost I didn't have for miles 16-18.

On a tougher course with hills (Mobhi Road and Ballymun Road) at miles 17-19, I got through it today and finished my 20 miles in 3hrs 34mins much more comfortably.

The last 6 miles will still be bloody tough but at least I've restored my confidence and now know what I'm capable of over 20 miles.

I reckon if I go out with the 4hr 40min pacers on the day I should be ok.

I ran up those hills lastnight too but I was only doing 7.5 miles. Nice gentle runs for you this weekend! Nice to have LSR out of the way already I'd say! Well done for redeeming your confidence. All these bad experience will stand to us in the last 6.2 miles.

laura_ac3

Joleigh wrote: »

I ran up those hills lastnight too but I was only doing 7.5 miles. Nice gentle runs for you this weekend! Nice to have LSR out of the way already I'd say! Well done for redeeming your confidence. All these bad experience will stand to us in the last 6.2 miles.

There's obviously a few of us knocking about the same routes. Mobhi road is one of my hills too! Funny how I used to hate it but now I'm kind of used to it. Good practice hopefully!

SoundoftheSea

Can't wait to get 20 miles done to feel ready and able.

Did 5 miles tue and wed and my knees are sore. I have physio Sat after LSR so if I can't finish the 20 I will have to wait until the following weekend as mid week is very busy work wise.

Just noticed my user name is SOS, hope I won't need to make that call on the 27th

I haven't lost even an ounce!! So I guess when you burn 1600 calories you still can't eat choccy biscuits every night!!

KillianByrne

smashiner wrote: »

I actually found that I wasn't eating enough! Sounds mad, but I found that a combination of plenty of water (with a drop of blackcurrant for me) and regular small meals such as a sandwich or a bananna seemed to help me. I was probably eating too much at the one sitting and not regular enough throughout the day.
Recently I have stopped having cups of tea and 6 digestives at 9pm and that also seemed to help......not sure why :rolleyes::rolleyes:

That's a very valid point for anyone looking to shift some weight alongside their running. It is really important to refuel after a run / race / training. Replacing the calories lost is vital in helping the muscles repair and refuel themselves, it helps stop ongoing fatigue and gets your body stores back to normal as soon as possible.

Eating a decent protien snack within 20/30 minutes of finishing is probably the most important. Something like a recovery smoothie, tuna sandwich, pulses, fruit etc. there are loads of ideas and recipies online. Following that, aim to eat consistently for the next couple of hours afterwards, replace the calories that you burnt.

If you treat the run as an opportunity to shift a1000 calories and do that consistently without replacing them, then your body will just start to hoard calories when it can, because it doesn't know when it will get refuelled to provide the nuts and bolts it needs to make its running repairs. Everything you eat will just get stored.

It's obviously more complicated than that, but refuelling will assist weight loss more than starvation. Also remember, replacing 700 calories with a quinoa, tuna and avocado salad is obviously preferable to 700 calories in a double chocolate muffin!

If anyone is on facebook or Twitter look up a chap called Daniel Davey, (FoodFlicker) he is the nutritionist for Leinster Rugby and regularly posts links and recipies to some really tasty & healthy foods. All geared towards athletes.

Here are a couple of articles - Fuelling for exercise - http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/news/12262.php#.VC0oCX6kqrU

Refuelling for recovery -http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/coaching/nutrition.php

denis160

Anyone else having mini panic attacks thinking about what they 'should' have done at this stage compared to what they've actually done? I'm starting to think i haven't done enough & won't make it through to 26.2 miles from lack of training.

Oh lord my head is melted from it. To make it worse, I went for the 7 mile run planned this week, & ended up walkingafter 1 mile. I eventually just ran/walked 4.5 miles and called it a day, legs were heavy, wasn't breathing properly, body tired. Well I can tell you the tears flowed when I got home & then the little doubts crept in.....not enough miles logged, the runs I missed from holidays & birthday, (should have tried harder to get them in) legs won't be able for it, what am I at, 40 year old, mother of 4 should know better...etc

Anyway, after 2 short (very) easy runs so far this week,the planned LSR is 18 miles, but I've only successfully completed 1 20 miler, the other didn't work out for me, so I'm wondering if I should do the 20 again this week?

Denis160 (A panicky, worried newbie marathon trainee)
PS: AMK I read your post giving great advice on the above, but I'm still struggling with them pesky demon thoughts.

Joleigh

denis160 wrote: »

Anyone else having mini panic attacks thinking about what they 'should' have done at this stage compared to what they've actually done? I'm starting to think i haven't done enough & won't make it through to 26.2 miles from lack of training.

Oh lord my head is melted from it. To make it worse, I went for the 7 mile run planned this week, & ended up walkingafter 1 mile. I eventually just ran/walked 4.5 miles and called it a day, legs were heavy, wasn't breathing properly, body tired. Well I can tell you the tears flowed when I got home & then the little doubts crept in.....not enough miles logged, the runs I missed from holidays & birthday, (should have tried harder to get them in) legs won't be able for it, what am I at, 40 year old, mother of 4 should know better...etc

Anyway, after 2 short (very) easy runs so far this week,the planned LSR is 18 miles, but I've only successfully completed 1 20 miler, the other didn't work out for me, so I'm wondering if I should do the 20 again this week?

Denis160 (A panicky, worried newbie marathon trainee)
PS: AMK I read your post giving great advice on the above, but I'm still struggling with them pesky demon thoughts.

Well if it was me I would make the planned 18 a 20 miler. Get a good sleep the night before, pre hydrate, up early, good brekkie and take it really easy and hopefully a good 20 miler will help you get rid of some of those demons. You obviously have a lot on your plate with 4 kids, a very busy house I imagine. You should be proud of yourself that you've fit in marathon training to your busy life, and don't be doubting yourself. Its not easy to put yourself first and fit your runs in around kids, dinners and schools etc.

Ososlo

Denis what long runs have you done?
It's normal enough to feel these doubts at this stage. Do the 20 if it puts your head in a better place if you're feeling good.

if you've only missed a couple of runs then you'll be better prepared than a large percentage of people lining up in a month.
Have faith...

AuldManKing

Joleigh wrote: »

Well if it was me I would make the planned 18 a 20 miler. Get a good sleep the night before, pre hydrate, up early, good brekkie and take it really easy and hopefully a good 20 miler will help you get rid of some of those demons. You obviously have a lot on your plate with 4 kids, a very busy house I imagine. You should be proud of yourself that you've fit in marathon training to your busy life, and don't be doubting yourself. Its not easy to put yourself first and fit your runs in around kids, dinners and schools etc.

Ososlo wrote: »

It's normal enough to feel these doubts at this stage. Do the 20 if it puts your head in a better place if you're feeling good.

if you've only missed a couple of runs then you'll be better prepared than a large percentage of people lining up in a month.
Have faith...

I think Denis is getting taper madness 1 week early

Joleigh gives great advice above - do the 20 miles this weekend, really prepare for it like it was the marathon and start off slow when running it. Aim to enjoy it and not see it as a slog. Dont be afraid of not finishing it - its 20 miles - you will get thoughts that you cant finish it - but you know what, you can.

I fully agree with Ososlo - this is normal - no matter how prepared you are, you will always think you are under prepared.
I read something recently about an Elite who likes to approach each marathon with that same fear of being under prepared, as if he feels very prepared, he will be complacent and not respect the distance.

You are in good shape physically - just get the head in gear and you will be grand.

Laois_Man

denis160 wrote: »

Anyone else having mini panic attacks thinking about what they 'should' have done at this stage compared to what they've actually done? I'm starting to think i haven't done enough & won't make it through to 26.2 miles from lack of training.

Oh lord my head is melted from it. To make it worse, I went for the 7 mile run planned this week, & ended up walkingafter 1 mile. I eventually just ran/walked 4.5 miles and called it a day, legs were heavy, wasn't breathing properly, body tired. Well I can tell you the tears flowed when I got home & then the little doubts crept in.....not enough miles logged, the runs I missed from holidays & birthday, (should have tried harder to get them in) legs won't be able for it, what am I at, 40 year old, mother of 4 should know better...etc

Anyway, after 2 short (very) easy runs so far this week,the planned LSR is 18 miles, but I've only successfully completed 1 20 miler, the other didn't work out for me, so I'm wondering if I should do the 20 again this week?

Denis160 (A panicky, worried newbie marathon trainee)
PS: AMK I read your post giving great advice on the above, but I'm still struggling with them pesky demon thoughts.

You're being way too hard on yourself

If you look at the mileage tracker, of the 44 people listed in it, you're in the top 10 in terms of miles covered.

Now I know a few people don't seem to have logged all or many of the miles they've done (I'm not even on it) - and I know it's not supposed to be a competition in that way. But it's reasonable up to date for about 25 novices and you're well up there near the top. You've done 31 miles more than me too overall in the 15 weeks

carmendub

Hey all, just wanted to pass on a tip that might help people for this event or any in the future. GET A FOAM ROLLER!! It is the best thing I have ever bought! I had injury woes coming up to DCM 2012 and my physio recommended I get a foam roller which I did and since then I have been using it religiously and it really keeps injuries at bay as when you think about all the running we are doing it is no wonder our muscles get so tight and a foam roller stretches these out and as a result prevents tighness, injury etc occuring. I literally use mine after every single run-no matter what distance and it is what got me to the start line last time despite really bad ITB issues! Anyway just thought it might help-as most of us know getting tight, injured etc is horrible especially with all the prep everyone has put in!

Dubgal72

Hi, i keep hearing about foam rollers, I'm curious. Do you wait for a couple of hours after exercise before rolling? I heard a recommendation that you wait to massage limbs for a couple of hours after running or racing as otherwise it interferes with the dispersal of lactic acid. Is rolling more like stretching muscles or massage? I've been doing gentle stretches after each run which seems to be working fine but if my poor hard working muscles need more pampering, they'll get it :-)

Firedance

For anyone on facebook look at amphibian king ashtowns page, Kevin is going to organise foam rolling lessons for free the weekend after next (he may have posted that on the runners support page but I'm sure they'll have it on their own FB page too)

AuldManKing

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi, i keep hearing about foam rollers, I'm curious. Do you wait for a couple of hours after exercise before rolling? I heard a recommendation that you wait to massage limbs for a couple of hours after running or racing as otherwise it interferes with the dispersal of lactic acid. Is rolling more like stretching muscles or massage? I've been doing gentle stretches after each run which seems to be working fine but if my poor hard working muscles need more pampering, they'll get it :-)

I think this is better answered by Ecoli, but I'll give my 2 cents;

I'd say foam rolling before running is a good way to warm up the muscles and may lead to fewer injuries.
From my own experience, some races have massage tents directly after races, manned by sports therapists etc, so I'd say having a massage directly after a race is ok - by the same token, foam rolling directly after a run or race should also be ok.
As your muscles are more malleable after a run, you may get more bang for your buck by foam rolling directly after a run and get at those tender spots.

carmendub

Hi Dubgal, well I foam roll straight after running/after taking a shower as this is what was recommended by my physio. It is basically like giving yourself a sports massage-as in you are stretching out the muscles after exercising. It's interesting to see how tight your muscles are if you haven't foam rolled before so if you can get your hands on one or use one in the gym you can get an idea if you have any tightness in any areas. I notice after long runs or if I haven't foam rolled in awhile it can be quite painful/tight but that could be just me and my ITB has been an issue in the past so I have to give it extra work/attention. If you don't have a foam roller you can use a cricket ball or something like that!Hope this helps!

AuldManKing

carmendub wrote: »

my ITB has been an issue in the past so I have to give it extra work/attention.

There is some debate about the effectiveness of foam rolling the IT Band if injured - I'd get advice on this if you have ITB issues.

Ososlo

AuldManKing wrote: »

There is some debate about the effectiveness of foam rolling the IT Band if injured - I'd get advice on this if you have ITB issues.

Foam roll the tfl (google it) but not IT band as it's a waste of time. I'll find link to discussion and post later when on pc.

SeanPuddin

Let's hope this doesn't happen

Warning - LOUD!

Pacing Mule

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Let's hope this doesn't happen

Warning - LOUD!

All joking aside that's crazy !!!

aquinn

See killianbyrne post on foam rolling.

I hate it! Stuck with it this evening as much as I could but ouch.

Denis160. Are you any better now after advice given earlier?

Joleigh how are physio bruising?

Mobhi/Ballymum road my route too at times 😆

4 miles done anyway after physio break last night. Legs ok so looking forward to trying 18 on Saturday with no stopping to work out route. Mostly looking forward to tomorrow's lunch and big dinner.

gingersnap

Updated the tracker sheet with the last couple of week's runs, it's good to see all the milage added up!

Plan on doing a 20 miler early tomorrow morning, taking in some of the route through the park and Chapelizod.

Then I am away for the weekend. What bad timing! I'll take the gear with me and try to get a recovery run in on Saturday. Hope the couple of nights away with (hopefully not too much) alcohol and dinners out doesn't knock me back. I plan on no alcohol after this weekend until after DCM.

Has everyone else stopped drinking in the run up to the marathon?

hillsiderunner

"Fast girls" is coming up on Film4 in 15mins!

(have to get my fix somehow now I'm on the bench for a while)

adrian522

gingersnap wrote: »

Has everyone else stopped drinking in the run up to the marathon?

Yeah, I'm hoping to, had a few beers last weekend after the All ireland final but planning on no more.

Hard though, friend I haven't seen in years looking to go for drinks one night, my Mam want to have a family dinner on, get this, October 18th. Not only will I not be drinking but at stage I'll be wary of eating anything I didn't prepare myself.

Dubgal72

5 mile tempo run tonight in 35:30... Feeling buzzed so gingersnap, in answer to your question I'm having a can of cider tonight in a hot bath. Classy huh? I have definitely cut down in the last couple of months but don't plan to cut out altogether. Moderation but it requires a lot of discipline to open a bottle of wine and not finish it, especially if just a recovery run planned the day after. I heard of an international decathlete or heptathlete who has a glass of red, even the night before a comp. it's part of her routine and works for her. Interesting results if you google athletics and drinking....