DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

yaboya1

gl0Rob wrote: »

12. I wont use 12 but I tend to lose one or two. In training I have used 1 every 10k - 15k. Racing I tend to use one every 5k, never had an issue. I won't be relying on what is available on coarse.

12 gels seems a bit excessive, but each to their own.

Regarding time, I think you should easily able to go with the 3:40 pacers (and maybe even quicker) judging by your race times and considering you've plenty of long runs done.

locombia

locombia wrote: »

What if you've trained with something else other than water of pure Lucozade?? I've trained with diluted Lucozade and a nuun tablet and carried it in one of those hand held bottle thingys. I tend to only drink half of it (taking a sip at every mile once I've passed 3-4 mile mark) while running and half of it is gulped down as soon as I finish running. So for race day I plan on filling it up half way and discarding the bottle at about mile 18-19 to free up my arms for the last push...

Oooooops sorry....wrong thread! Meant to be over in the Dublin City Marathon thread where they're discussing the do's and don'ts of carrying water when racing..

Ososlo

yaboya1 wrote: »

12 gels seems a bit excessive, but each to their own.

Regarding time, I think you should easily able to go with the 3:40 pacers (and maybe even quicker) judging by your race times and considering you've plenty of long runs done.

+1 gl0rob to going out at 3:40 pace and pick it up at 18/20 if you've an extra little something left in tank. Looks like you've a fantastic base with the lsrs.

Maybe you'd tell everyone what those last few miles were like in the last marathon as it might stop people going off at too aggressive a target on the 27th.

I would have thought 6 gels would be enough for anyone but as yaboya says each to their own!!!

edit: I'd say no more than 14/15 as the long run at the weekend.

Laois_Man

On my long LSRs, I didn't dictate my gel intake by the mile I was on, rather the time I had been running - as there was a bit of fluctuation with my pace from one LSR to another!

For the marathon itself, I'll probably change that to about ¼ mile before water stations - and I'll take them a bit more regularly than I did in training as I would have only used 3 on a 4 hour LSR.

I'll take 5 gels and the third one will be a caffeine gel, but the rest of them will be non caffeine. I’ll carry 6 gels, one for spare.

So I'll take them at roughly 1hr, 1:45, 2:30, 3:15 and 4:00

I think I am gonna shoot for 4:19:59 which might quickly reduce to 4:29:59 and revise as I go along if needed.

So then if everything is OK with the first target, and doing the maths, that would mean me taking one at 10K, near the 11 marker, mile 15½ , mile 20 marker and about mile 24 marker.

Which all lines up somewhat with water stations at mile 7, 11½, mile 16, mile 21 and mile 24.

Bit of adjustment to line up better; gels at mile 6¾, 11, 15¾ (caffeine) , 20¾ and 23¾

I'll tell ya - the non-converted don't half realize how much working out and thought goes into all this

By the way, if you’re looking out for me on the day, I’ll be the guy with those funny numbers above written down my arm in thick black marker

Firedance

locombia wrote: »

Oooooops sorry....wrong thread! Meant to be over in the Dublin City Marathon thread where they're discussing the do's and don'ts of carrying water when racing..

lots of strong opinions over there on why folks shouldn't carry water. As a matter of interest for those in the know, how much of a hindrance would a 600ml water bottle be on the way round? I'm wondering if the comfort of carrying what you're used to outweighs the hindrance or no?

gl0Rob

Ososlo wrote: »

+1 gl0rob to going out at 3:40 pace and pick it up at 18/20 if you've an extra little something left in tank. Looks like you've a fantastic base with the lsrs.

Maybe you'd tell everyone what those last few miles were like in the last marathon as it might stop people going off at too aggressive a target on the 27th.

I would have thought 6 gels would be enough for anyone but as yaboya says each to their own!!!

edit: I'd say no more than 14/15 as the long run at the weekend.

Thanks for that. The more I think about it the more 12 sounds excessive. I only plan on taking 7. I must be planning for doomsday scenario or getting lost in the wilds of the Phoenix park carrying an extra 5. But sure if anyone is stuck for a gel on the day just give me the nod. Ill sort you out with a good price.

3:40 sounds like a target.

For Limerick I went with the 4:30 pacers. My main goal was to enjoy it as much of it as I could. In the back of my mind I knew endurance was going to be in issue from missing too many run. In hindsight i probably could have gone out a little slower to try and squeeze distance but that might have had the opposite effect.

As regards the last three miles. They were hell. At mile 23 the body just said your not running anymore. I wen't from felling comfortable and keeping pace to walking within a matter of steps. So spent the last 3 miles struggling to walk with some weird cramping sensations I have never experience before or since. The worst part is watching the other runners go by and having to walk in front of the crowds and even more so loved ones that have come along to support. I'd would have preferred to finish strong than start strong. I have never found banking time at the start of a race and trying to hold on works. Its much more enjoyable to kick on at the end of a race and mow down those who wen't out too fast.

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

lots of strong opinions over there on why folks shouldn't carry water. As a matter of interest for those in the know, how much of a hindrance would a 600ml water bottle be on the way round? I'm wondering if the comfort of carrying what you're used to outweighs the hindrance or no?

All I know is I carried a 500ml water bottle in a hand-held holder thingy and it was no hindrance in the world.
If you're very experienced and are going for a really fast time and are chasing a minute off your time or something like a lot of those faster guys are then yes it might be a hindrance.
That's just my 2 cents. I personally never liked those water carrier belt thingys but each to their own! Do whatever you feel more confident about!

KillianByrne

Firedance wrote: »

lots of strong opinions over there on why folks shouldn't carry water. As a matter of interest for those in the know, how much of a hindrance would a 600ml water bottle be on the way round? I'm wondering if the comfort of carrying what you're used to outweighs the hindrance or no?

I dont carry water at all, if I ever bring it is in a camelbak. as a result, I have issues carrying anything in my hands now, even small things like phones or small 250ml bottles.

I think it goes back to the adage of do in the race what you do in training. There are loads of stations around the course to sort you out if necessary.

Kop On

gl0Rob wrote: »

Thanks for that. The more I think about it the more 12 sounds excessive. I only plan on taking 7. I must be planning for doomsday scenario or getting lost in the wilds of the Phoenix park carrying an extra 5. But sure if anyone is stuck for a gel on the day just give me the nod. Ill sort you out with a good price.

3:40 sounds like a target.

For Limerick I went with the 4:30 pacers. My main goal was to enjoy it as much of it as I could. In the back of my mind I knew endurance was going to be in issue from missing too many run. In hindsight i probably could have gone out a little slower to try and squeeze distance but that might have had the opposite effect.

As regards the last three miles. They were hell. At mile 23 the body just said your not running anymore. I wen't from felling comfortable and keeping pace to walking within a matter of steps. So spent the last 3 miles struggling to walk with some weird cramping sensations I have never experience before or since. The worst part is watching the other runners go by and having to walk in front of the crowds and even more so loved ones that have come along to support. I'd would have preferred to finish strong than start strong. I have never found banking time at the start of a race and trying to hold on works. Its much more enjoyable to kick on at the end of a race and mow down those who wen't out too fast.

Am I reading this right that in the space of only 5 months you're planning to knock over an hour off your Marathon time? :eek:

Jelly Legs

Firedance - I'm definitely planning to bring my water belt with me. I know there's lots of water etc on the course but I've done all my long runs with it and will feel a lot more comfortable carrying it. The way I see it (as others have said) is I'm sticking to what I know and it's one less thing to worry about on the day - can take my gels when I want and don't have to worry about missing a water station (I'm a worrier!)

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

All I know is I carried a 500ml water bottle in a hand-held holder thingy and it was no hindrance in the world.
If you're very experienced and are going for a really fast time and are chasing a minute off your time or something like a lot of those faster guys are then yes it might be a hindrance.
That's just my 2 cents. I personally never liked those water carrier belt thingys but each to their own! Do whatever you feel more confident about!

thanks! you've told me that before too I think :-) I need to stick with the plan & leave it at that..

gl0Rob

Kop On wrote: »

Am I reading this right that in the space of only 5 months you're planning to knock over an hour off your Marathon time? :eek:

Ya. I wasn't well prepared for my first marathon and I was heavier. I have learnt a lot over the months lurking around this form that's helped my training to no end.

Ososlo

gl0Rob wrote: »

Ya. I wasn't well prepared for my first marathon and I was heavier. I have learnt a lot over the months lurking around this form that's helped my training to no end.

Fair play to you! Well done with everything you've achieved. You should be very confident of having a super dcm!

ciaranmac

I'm also wondering about the need to bring water. For my LSRs I've been bringing one gel and the bottle filled with water and a few pinches of salt for electrolytes, taking the gel towards the end of each 8.5 km loop, then restocking from the car. In Athlone I brought the bottle and 2 gels and eked out the salty water, but I could have done with an extra gel or two. I'm thinking for DCM I could go with an empty bottle stuffed with gels instead.

adrian522

For me I'll put 4 gels in my pockets and that will be it. Seems pretty pointless carrying water. Even 4 gels may be a bit much but shouldn't be too burdensome to carry.

annapr

Firedance wrote: »

thanks! you've told me that before too I think :-) I need to stick with the plan & leave it at that..

I'm dithering on this one too. I wear a water belt on LSR's and sip regularly from about 10k on. In the half I didn't feel right until I got the first water, and then I ended up carrying the wee water bottles around with me... So if I'm going to be carrying bottles around why not have a belt? I know the purists insist you don't need it...

Dubgal72

annapr wrote: »

I'm dithering on this one too. I wear a water belt on LSR's and sip regularly from about 10k on. In the half I didn't feel right until I got the first water, and then I ended up carrying the wee water bottles around with me... So if I'm going to be carrying bottles around why not have a belt? I know the purists insist you don't need it...

My dilemma too...I have a lovely double bottle belt (from Lidl) that sits really snugly around my waist. For lsrs I've had water in one and ISO drink in the other. Will I won't I use it on the day?! I'll probably start sipping the ISO from 90 minutes and hold off on the gels til mile 13 or so. I've read that glycogen stores don't start to deplete until after 90 mins, sometimes 2 hours depending on effort. If I decide not to wear the belt, 3 or 4 (in case!) gels should fit in my pockets. It's getting so close!!

Dubgal72

gl0Rob wrote: »

Hi All

Looking for some advice on a time to aim for. Ran Limerick marathon 5 months ago and finished in 4:45 (very enjoyable first 23 miles. Hell for the last 3).

Since then, I've lost a lot of the excess weight and improved my training and all my shorter distance times have come down as a result.

10k: 45:00
Half: 1:38:00 (Charleville)
30k last weekend: 2:27:30 (Human Race)

.

You're flying! Fair play and well done

NyOmnishambles

Haven't posted in a while

Injured my foot in the half marathon and have been unable to do anything since

It isn't fully healed but I am going to go for a LSR this weekend and see how it copes, I will probably be fine for the run but it is after I am worried about

But I can't really let it heal more, if I don't do a long run this weekend I am not sure if I will know if I am able to do the marathon as I wont really be able to test it properly the weekend before the marathon and I am worried that as I have lost so much training time (lost a few weeks befoe the half due to illness) after a great consistant start that I might not be up to it

If the foot holds up I wont be pushing for a time but will try and go round near the 4.50 pacers and see how it goes, after the last couple of months I would be happy with getting round in under 5 hours

annapr

Dubgal72 wrote: »

My dilemma too...I have a lovely double bottle belt (from Lidl) that sits really snugly around my waist. For lsrs I've had water in one and ISO drink in the other. Will I won't I use it on the day?! I'll probably start sipping the ISO from 90 minutes and hold off on the gels til mile 13 or so. I've read that glycogen stores don't start to deplete until after 90 mins, sometimes 2 hours depending on effort. If I decide not to wear the belt, 3 or 4 (in case!) gels should fit in my pockets. It's getting so close!!

Ok I just read all the experienced words of wisdom on the marathon thread and have decided it's best to wear and carry NOTHING!!! (Well as close to nothing as decency allows). All they are short of recommending is shaving all body hair, or maybe that's earlier in the thread. run free!

tang1

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Haven't posted in a while

Injured my foot in the half marathon and have been unable to do anything since

It isn't fully healed but I am going to go for a LSR this weekend and see how it copes, I will probably be fine for the run but it is after I am worried about

Not that you want to hear it, i'd be giving DCM a miss if i were you. Your injured and will not enjoy the experience, i have entered 3 DCM's and yet to make it to the start line cause injury put an end to my chances each time. I could have maybe ran 2 out of the 3 if i wanted but when i do eventually make it to the start i want to be fully fit and enjoy the day.

You could do more damage to yourself by ploughing on through the injury. Have you seen a physio about your foot, if so what is their opinion on you running?

Dubgal72

annapr wrote: »

Ok I just read all the experienced words of wisdom on the marathon thread and have decided it's best to wear and carry NOTHING!!! (Well as close to nothing as decency allows). All they are short of recommending is shaving all body hair, or maybe that's earlier in the thread. run free!

Haha just done the same and I am persuaded too! I will now have to cajole family, club members and friends to stand around the course with my ISO energy drink
Thanks for the reinforcment!

hillsiderunner

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Haven't posted in a while

Injured my foot in the half marathon and have been unable to do anything since

It isn't fully healed but I am going to go for a LSR this weekend and see how it copes, I will probably be fine for the run but it is after I am worried about

But I can't really let it heal more, if I don't do a long run this weekend I am not sure if I will know if I am able to do the marathon as I wont really be able to test it properly the weekend before the marathon and I am worried that as I have lost so much training time (lost a few weeks befoe the half due to illness) after a great consistant start that I might not be up to it

If the foot holds up I wont be pushing for a time but will try and go round near the 4.50 pacers and see how it goes, after the last couple of months I would be happy with getting round in under 5 hours

If you haven't been to a physio recently, I'd agree that you would be better skipping DCM. It is dangerous running on something that hasn't healed. For some injuries it would be possible to (say) use a stationary bike for a few hours, or go for a long cycle on a real bike ... to get the cardio workout without the impact. But even for that you'd be better getting the ok from a physio.

I am dealing with an injury at the moment... and the physio's rule was that I must wait till the leg is 100%, and then 2 extra days, before I'm allowed to run at all. Not enjoying the wait but I don't want to do any extra damage, so I am on my best behaviour!

Firedance

ok final post on the water topic! are the water stations every 2.5 miles and are they handing out 25ml bottles at every one of them does anyone know? the info on the site isn't that clear unless I've missed something glaring..

adrian522

The water stations are marked on the course map. You won't want for water on the day that's for sure. There are 8 water stations from what I can see. Also 2 spots where they are handing out gels and 3 spots where you can get lucozade sport.

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

ok final post on the water topic! are the water stations every 2.5 miles and are they handing out 25ml bottles at every one of them does anyone know? the info on the site isn't that clear unless I've missed something glaring..

500 ml bottles of water with pop up top.

smashiner

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Haha just done the same and I am persuaded too! I will now have to cajole family, club members and friends to stand around the course with my ISO energy drink
Thanks for the reinforcment!

Noooo....now my head is well and truly wrecked :( !
I have used my Batman Utility Belt all along for anything over 16K. I wore it during the Dublin HM and didn't really use it too much to be fair as the stations were excellent.

Like the 'run free' idea, but I think that I might stick with the belt and only half fill the 2 bottles (water in one and Lucozade in the other) as I find I like to have the option to swish a bit of water around if the throat goes dry and there is still a mile or two to the next station....decisions decisions :rolleyes::rolleyes:. Do what you feel is right for you.....

RedRunner

smashiner wrote: »

Noooo....now my head is well and truly wrecked :( !
I have used my Batman Utility Belt all along for anything over 16K. I wore it during the Dublin HM and didn't really use it too much to be fair as the stations were excellent.

Like the 'run free' idea, but I think that I might stick with the belt and only half fill the 2 bottles (water in one and Lucozade in the other) as I find I like to have the option to swish a bit of water around if the throat goes dry and there is still a mile or two to the next station....decisions decisions :rolleyes::rolleyes:. Do what you feel is right for you.....

Put it like this. If when you were doing your lsr a friend said he'd meet you every 5k with water, would you have bothered with the belt?

Don't think of it as doing something different to your lsr. Think of it as you will be running lighter. There'll be oodles of water available.

Corrib man

Hey guys, wouldn't bother carrying water, plenty of stations on route, anyone following the more popular pacers( 4-4.30) can expect stations to be hectic early on, found myself grabbing 4 bots in the P. Park last yr and just handing them out to fellow runners. Well handed 3 out. Enjoy the taper all.

Pm1e

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Haha just done the same and I am persuaded too! I will now have to cajole family, club members and friends to stand around the course with my ISO energy drink
Thanks for the reinforcment!

Guys could ye send the link for this discussion, I am a belt user too for the simple reason, I like to be able to consume water at my own pace and not have to wait until the next station comes along, its a comfort thing for me but now I'm wondering what it is ye have read. Thanks