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DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread
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Yeah most people won't achieve their target times for their first so everyone reading this should have an A, B & C goal/plan for the day so as not to end up disappointed not achieving their goal. Most people are too ambitious for their first. It's human nature.
Instead of grinding it out up to 19 miles I think you should just take it very easy from the very start and conserve your energy/body for as long as possible. I'd ignore any pacers and just run/walk as your body calls for it. Good idea to start at the back.
I like the idea of this so after a nights sleep to dwell on this will go for a) 4:59:59, b) 5:13:59, c) To complete.
I realise that we are obviously talking about double the half marathon distance, but I am feeling back to my July 10k fitness again which was done in 57:25. I realise I will have another four hours to go after this and will maybe have to walk some of it but I've run all five race I've so far entered besides a pee after three miles in the last race, so think some may think I'm less fit than I am.I am not sure if you are serious or taking the P*** here. Longer strides with a lower cadence have a lot more impact and are much more injury inducing. If you do any type of injury prevention running workshop (like chi-running) you will find that short strides/high cadence is generally seen as the ideal running form.
Secondly, 5hr Marathon pace is 11:27/mile 4:50 pace is 11:07/mile. Given that you struggle to keep 12 minute miles what makes you think you will 'no doubt' over take those pacing groups?. I think ososlo is right, your best bet is a run/walk strategy. A decent walker could come in around 6hrs, certainly under 7.
You are seriously underestimating the marathon and are massively under prepared tbh. The best you can hope to do is just finish and that is really not much of an achievement. You'd be better off training properly and doing a future marathon properly. But If you just want to tick the 'marathon finishers' box go right ahead. Don't expect any adulation from on here if you go ahead with it though.
Thank you for taking the time to reply Meno. With regards to the strides - this was a Novice question on a novice thread so maybe the tone was a little uncalled for? I figured the less strides I did, the less strain I put on my knee's due to not having to bend them as much.
Now that this has been explained, I can now go off with a shorter stride.
The main reason for the change in stride has been that I have improved arerobically which has seen me running a full min quicker than before my injury.
Apologies on the timing thoughts. I had been checking what 12 min pace was and noticed it was 5:13:59 earlier in the week but was rather tired when replying last night which mixed my numbers up. I think I can run at 11 min pace for a long distance, but you are correct in thinking I would not be able to hold it anywhere near race distance. With no traffic lights and the crowd cheering you on along with other runners to trail, it is easier to keep up a faster pace so I figure this will help propel me along.
I have however settled on starting at the back and trying to keep something in reserve and keeping sight of the five hour group.
You are also correct in stating I was looking to tick a box by running DCM, although it has become a lot more than that now as I have found a passion for running that I lost once I left school due to never getting my gait checked until this year. I have put in a hell of a lot of time, effort and money into this and have the okay from three different people in the medical profession to go ahead and run.
I am not looking to impress anyone on these boards although find posting a useful way of staying motivated despite some negativity which I understand is meant with good intentions.
No hard feelings, I will be starting a log in December/January to help stay motivated. It will be called 'To hell in a handcart' and I will be looking for any experienced guys like yourself to have the odd bit of input throughout my journey as this is just the beginning.Pacing Mule wrote: »Meno mentioned the chi running earlier and he was spot on. I'm running faster / more efficiently and with less injury problems since attending a workshop and lengthening the stride is a major no no. It's about shorter / higher turnover strides, leaning forward rather than back as you would do lengthening your stride.
My similar story to yours back in 2012 had me go out from the back too but instead of catching the 5 hour guys I gradually fell apart and ended up finishing in 5:36. I'm interested to know why you say you will no doubt catch them and the 4:45 guys too. That sounds very confident. There is stubborness which you need (and have) in bucket loads but you also have to be smart. You haven't gotten past 15 miles before, have ran at 12 minute pace which is about right for a LSR aiming for sub 5 to be fair but given your injury history the endurance may be lacking and you will only find that out when you venture into unknown territory on the day.
I guess what I am saying here is don't rely on stubborness alone to get you through this. Think smart. A run walk from the start as suggested earlier may be wiser. Hell I would even advocate walking very briskly the first 6-8 miles before going for a long run then. It will be a nicer experience for you and will give you a better chance of finishing. Each to their own of course - I probably wouldn't listen to that either if I were you
I have started back training with the idea of leaning forward like I read on your log but with longer strides. It sounds as though I should shorten them up a little and go from there which I now will.
Yeah as I wrote above to Meno, the 11 min thought process was centred around the theory that you get carried along with the crowd as well as the other runners and my longer stride now however I will now try and hold back and instead shorten my strides.
Yeah its the way I am, playing Football in my 20's in England you don't show pain and you play through it.
I will start off with a similar idea as 2012 Mule and try and stay insight of the 5 hour group and then try pushing on after 20
Chivito550 wrote: »Is it just me who thinks that MKDTH is just having the craic here?
I am honestly not here to annoy or infuriate anyone. It just takes a massive brick to sometimes knock some sense into me
I think I may print off my username and pin it to the back of my running shirt on the day to prove that I am real and turn up in the pub afterwards at about 16:20 when I finish!!!!!
Sorry for the longest post in the world.0 -
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I have started back training with the idea of leaning forward like I read on your log but with longer strides. It sounds as though I should shorten them up a little and go from there which I now will.
Yeah as I wrote above to Meno, the 11 min thought process was centred around the theory that you get carried along with the crowd as well as the other runners and my longer stride now however I will now try and hold back and instead shorten my strides.
Yeah its the way I am, playing Football in my 20's in England you don't show pain and you play through it.
I will start off with a similar idea as 2012 Mule and try and stay insight of the 5 hour group and then try pushing on after 20
Just be careful in drastically altering an existing stride now and trying to run that for 26 miles. My transition to a new running form took a couple of months to bed in properly and the first couple of weeks were difficult. Suddenly I was using muscles either in a different way or for what may as well have been the first time ! If you change your stride too much it may be counter productive for you.
Yes in the long term most definitely look at chi running style - I believe it will help with your injury problems. But in this now very short term I'd be inclined to stick with what your legs are used to. Just some more food for thought for you 0 -
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Pacing Mule wrote: »Just be careful in drastically altering an existing stride now and trying to run that for 26 miles. My transition to a new running form took a couple of months to bed in properly and the first couple of weeks were difficult. Suddenly I was using muscles either in a different way or for what may as well have been the first time ! If you change your stride too much it may be counter productive for you.
Yes in the long term most definitely look at chi running style - I believe it will help with your injury problems. But in this now very short term I'd be inclined to stick with what your legs are used to. Just some more food for thought for you
absolutely agree. Changing running style all of a sudden could make things worse. I also found when I started changing my running style and stride that I ran faster (not a good idea for you at the moment). It was fine for me as I was only doing short runs but it'd be a different story for someone tackling a marathon.
Save any big changes to running style for after the event.0 -
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well that's just the most simple excellent thing I've ever seen! I'll wear two watches on one arm and 4 pace bands on the other
problem/excessive worrying solved - although I havent run with pace bands (or two watches) before, will there be chafing!??
Ha ha I think you'll be fine;) Don't have them on too tight!0 -
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