DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Dub13

I have noticed a few of us are using Garmin Connect, so I created a group there as so many find it useful. My user name there is Irishkop44.

http://connect.garmin.com/group/728372

KillianByrne

Dub13 wrote: »

I have noticed a few of us are using Garmin Connect, so I created a group there as so many find it useful. My user name there is Irishkop44.

http://connect.garmin.com/group/728372

Joined, not quite sure what I do now I'm in, but I'm in.

Do we have a special handshake or something?

Firedance

vitani wrote: »

I've just bought the book on Kindle so will read up on it as well.

ditto, its making for an interesting read..also had a look at the schedule and while it looks like hard work I don't think its an impossible task (someone remind me I said that when we're over half way through it )

crisco10

Dub13 wrote: »

I have noticed a few of us are using Garmin Connect, so I created a group there as so many find it useful. My user name there is Irishkop44.

http://connect.garmin.com/group/728372

Just for those using Strava, there is a boards group there too.

http://www.strava.com/clubs/22198

Dub13

KillianByrne wrote: »

Joined, not quite sure what I do now I'm in, but I'm in.

Do we have a special handshake or something?

I am not sure its the first time time using the group, but a big yes to the special handshake.

AuldManKing

Theres a well respected website here that looks at all the different training plans out there and compares there suitability to different levels of athletes.

Given the conversations above, its worth a read.

Typically, the Hansons plan wouldn't be recommended to novice athletes.

SeanPuddin

Whilst on the topic of plans I want to ask some questions.
I intend on following the boards.ie plan as I like the look of the two 20 miles runs and speed work. A plain plan would bore me to tears.
Did many use this plan last year?
To my inexperienced eye it look far better than the higdon novice plan, but what is it based on or who came up with it?
In this plan, are warm up/down, easy and recovery all the same pace? What about LSR pacing, is this marathon pace?

Ososlo

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Whilst on the topic of plans I want to ask some questions.
I intend on following the boards.ie plan as I like the look of the two 20 miles runs and speed work. A plain plan would bore me to tears.
Did many use this plan last year?
To my inexperienced eye it look far better than the higdon novice plan, but what is it based on or who came up with it?
In this plan, are warm up/down, easy and recovery all the same pace? What about LSR pacing, is this marathon pace?

I didn't follow it myself.
career_move put it together last year with imput from some experienced boardsies. Only thing I changed was adding in warm ups and cooldowns and very slight changes to amount of marathon pace miles.
Full explanation of pacing on post two of this thread. Recovery runs are slower than all other runs. Lsr is a lot slower than mp. See post 2. On phone so can't link to it.

SeanPuddin

Apologies on the pacing questions I can figure that all out sure.

I would be interested in the thinking behind the plan though and does it really suit a novice. Firstly there's a huge difference in mileage. I'm going to do it but it would be nice to know why if you know what I mean.

Ososlo

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Apologies on the pacing questions I can figure that all out sure.

I would be interested in the thinking behind the plan though and does it really suit a novice. Firstly there's a huge difference in mileage. I'm going to do it but it would be nice to know why if you know what I mean.

I think it'd be great if some of last years novices could relay their experiences of the plan. It was put together as a novice plan so is suitable as long as you can safely handle the mileage from where you currently stand.
Remember that the extra days of recovery runs are optional and can be taken as complete rest days.

slingerz

Can someone explain to me what the Strava thing is or the Garmin Connect are they kinda the same deal?!

As for my injury i went to a physio last night and found him excellent. He found me to be a wonder of modern medicine. Found a number of muscle and ligament tears in my lower back and was in awe that i never got them treated and continued to play GAA, golf, rugby, soccer, running all of which brought on various back pain episodes.

A half hour with him brought relief initially but we are in the early stages so it'll take a few visits to him but hopefully he'll have me back on the road to recovery soon enough.

Going to keep an eye in here though to see how it progresses so i know what to expect for DCM 15! My own training this year will be for shorter distances from 5K to 10K really i would think

Pacing Mule

In a nutshell strava tracks your workout either at the time on phone apps etc or afterwards by upload from a device like your gps watch. Your can then see a map of where you have ran along with data like speed, time taken, elevation and climbs etc and compare to others as a whole run or as a segment.

The segments are user made. If your route passes through a segment strava measures your data for that specific piece of the run too. It could be a 300m hill or a 5 mile loop. Each segment is then compared to your previous best so you have personal records and segment records for everyone who has ran that one.

Bulmers74

Ososlo wrote: »

I think it'd be great if some of last years novices could relay their experiences of the plan. It was put together as a novice plan so is suitable as long as you can safely handle the mileage from where you currently stand.
Remember that the extra days of recovery runs are optional and can be taken as complete rest days.

As someone that followed c_m's plan last year, all I can say is that it works! I did add a few extra easy miles to the prescribed mileage but always remembering the 10% rule. Have faith in the recognised plan you choose and commit to it. For the record I wouldn't choose the hansons plan above as a novice. For me the things I looked at when choosing a plan were time on your feet and the number of 20 milers ( it would have to be at least 2 or 3 for me as most novices need to work on endurance). Most importantly get the pace of your different runs right from the beginning. I know Ososlo has described the paces in post 2 but if you have any doubt seek clarification here.

LaHaine

Any tips for running club in city centre? Phoenix Park have a couple that train there?

Any recommendations?

SamforMayo

Bulmers74 wrote: »

As someone that followed c_m's plan last year, all I can say is that it works! I did add a few extra easy miles to the prescribed mileage but always remembering the 10% rule. Have faith in the recognised plan you choose and commit to it. For the record I wouldn't choose the hansons plan above as a novice. For me the things I looked at when choosing a plan were time on your feet and the number of 20 milers ( it would have to be at least 2 or 3 for me as most novices need to work on endurance). Most importantly get the pace of your different runs right from the beginning. I know Ososlo has described the paces in post 2 but if you have any doubt seek clarification here.

I also followed last years plan and got the result I wanted without too much pain. I think I did 3 runs of 20 miles.

roseypo

Hi All! I have just found this thread, I did wonder if there was one yet as I joined the DCM2013 thread at the very tail end last year.
Some background

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) did DCM last year - finish time 4:38:59 , half marathon - best time is 1:59 , only made it to 1 parkrun in Jan this year - time was 26:55
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do) No
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. - running 3/4 times a week
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
•How many days a week can you train? 3 or 4
•Why are you running this marathon? I want to do a bit better than last year :-)
I've been running away mostly on my own for the last 3 years or so and i finally joined a local athletics club (get me!) at the start of this year in attempt to meet new runners and get a bit faster. I have to say i've been getting a bit disheartened as there are only a handful of 'laydees' and they are all a lot faster than me, most would be interested in shorter distances etc but still, it's no fun doing speed sessions and always being paddy last if you know what i mean. I keep telling myself that I am still new to all of this and to keep at it.
My running plans at the minute are to do clontarf half in July, I am up to about 10 miles at the minute, then i've entered the athlone 3/4 which i did last year and really enjoyed. Anyhoo just joining and marking my place - i'll catch up with a few pages of the thread and look forward to chatting with you all over the next few months.

r

crisco10

Where do people stand on using HRM for long run pace? Tried it out for the first time last night.

I did my LSR, decided to keep heart rate a steady 140-150 BPM. (my Max is ~193) and see what pace that produced. The 19.5km run came out about 5:08min/km. (I did accelerate a bit and let my heart climb to 160 in last 3 or 4km to finish strong)

Mcmillan gives me an LSR pace of 4:38 - 5:24min/km which seems reasonable given above...

Anybody else have any thoughts?

adrian522

Yeah, I use the HR monitor, though not as much as I used to. I have the garmin set to show me the HR as a percentage of Max, and on a LSR I'd try to stay between 75 and 78 but other factors can affect the HR and the HR monitor so ytou are still essentially running to feel but it is nice to be able to look back at the heart rate afterwards.

SeanPuddin

crisco10 wrote: »

Where do people stand on using HRM for long run pace? Tried it out for the first time last night.

I did my LSR, decided to keep heart rate a steady 140-150 BPM. (my Max is ~193) and see what pace that produced. The 19.5km run came out about 5:08min/km. (I did accelerate a bit and let my heart climb to 160 in last 3 or 4km to finish strong)

Mcmillan gives me an LSR pace of 4:38 - 5:24min/km which seems reasonable given above...

Anybody else have any thoughts?

From what I see here, LSR pace should be 45-90 seconds slower than goal pace. As a novice and based on the above I think your pace is WAY too quick. 19.5km fair play though

crisco10

SeanPuddin wrote: »

From what I see here, LSR pace should be 45-90 seconds slower than goal pace. As a novice and based on the above I think your pace is WAY too quick. 19.5km fair play though

Well this was an experiment with heart rate (i.e. effort based). Agree it may have been a little quick....at the moment I'm aiming for 3:20, which would give an LSR pace of 5:15min/km to 5:45 based on the 45 to 90 rule which puts 5:08 at the fast end alright.

SeanPuddin

crisco10 wrote: »

Well this was an experiment with heart rate (i.e. effort based). Agree it may have been a little quick....at the moment I'm aiming for 3:20, which would give an LSR pace of 5:15min/km to 5:45 based on the 45 to 90 rule which puts 5:08 at the fast end alright.

Ah good stuff didn't realise you were going for such a time. I assumed you were a fellow novice lunatic but just saw you ran a marathon before!

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

Where do people stand on using HRM for long run pace? Tried it out for the first time last night.

I did my LSR, decided to keep heart rate a steady 140-150 BPM. (my Max is ~193) and see what pace that produced. The 19.5km run came out about 5:08min/km. (I did accelerate a bit and let my heart climb to 160 in last 3 or 4km to finish strong)

Mcmillan gives me an LSR pace of 4:38 - 5:24min/km which seems reasonable given above...

Anybody else have any thoughts?

I used a HRM for all my runs for DCM last year - long, easy, short, recovery, tempo. Found it great to be honest and kept all my long, easy and recovery at under 75% of max hr. This allowed me to run lots and lots of miles as they were done at a really easy effort and not taxing on the body at all. Just ensure you're working off a max hr that you're very confident is correct. I did 2 fitness tests and a race to get mine before I was sure enough I had the correct max to work out my paces. I wouldn't go harder than 75% of max hr for a long slow run personally but maybe others have different views on this.

crisco10

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Ah good stuff didn't realise you were going for such a time. I assumed you were a fellow novice lunatic but just saw you ran a marathon before!

trained for a marathon before! Missed the race due to injury...

Ososlo

LaHaine wrote: »

Any tips for running club in city centre? Phoenix Park have a couple that train there?

Any recommendations?

Sorry LaHaine, just noticed your question went unanswered. I'm not in a club so can't recommend but lots of people are in clubs that train in PP so just bumping this up so you'll hopefully get some suggestions...

LaHaine

Ososlo wrote: »

Sorry LaHaine, just noticed your question went unanswered. I'm not in a club so can't recommend but lots of people are in clubs that train in PP so just bumping this up so you'll hopefully get some suggestions...

Thank you

Ososlo

LaHaine wrote: »

Thank you

To be going on with, see post 2 of this thread for some suggestions

AuldManKing

LaHaine wrote: »

Thank you

Another helpful thread.

MKDTH

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
Not for about twenty years, and that was only a 5k race. Roughly that was about 23mins

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?
No not really, although i'm only two weeks into my running career.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Five days a week is the plan, i have kept to this for the first 2 weeks. Six miles in week one in total with the longest run being 1mile 5, 8 miles in week 2 with the longest being 2m 5. I'm slowly building it up using the Hal Higdon training guide Novice 1, adapting the first 5 weeks to get me ready to be running a minimum of 3 miles each day by week 5 of my training and then starting the 18 week schedule.
I also walk over 10miles a week and have done so for a number of years.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

It would just be a dream to get round as i do very little exercise besides walking. I would settle for five hours.

How many days a week can you train?

5 Days

Why are you running this marathon?

I used to watch the London Marathon as a kid and always wanted to run a Marathon. I always enjoyed Cross Country at School, however i was put off in my late teens when my feet always hurt when running in the only previous running shoes i owned. I have recently realised that the type of running shoes used can make a huge difference which has gave me enormous drive to now give this a go. So i got assessed recently and bought a decent pair of runners.
I'm only 35 and am fed up being fat after stopping playing football a few years ago so fingers crossed i get the bug!

I don't have the greatest confidence in my legs though due to various previous football injuries to my Knees and Calves which always seemed worst when running on rock hard summer pitches.
My knees have felt a little dull ache on my longest runs at the end so far, and i got pins and needles up my feet and legs on my longest run this week, but i'm still happy as i was worried i would be in agony with knees the day after a run, and as yet have not had such issues. (Touch wood). I'm assuming as i slowly build up my fitness levels and distances, my legs should be able to take more before hurting.

Another reason to do it is my brother has run a fair few Marathons and i also have two lads in my office who run them so i want to see what all the fuss is about.

Dub13

I did 11.5 km each day this week on my lunch break, I will give the running a miss tomorrow and do a gym session as I want to give the legs a rest for a LSR on Sat.

http://connect.garmin.com/profile/Irishkop44

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
Not for about twenty years, and that was only a 5k race. Roughly that was about 23mins

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?
No not really, although i'm only two weeks into my running career.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Five days a week is the plan, i have kept to this for the first 2 weeks. Six miles in week one in total with the longest run being 1mile 5, 8 miles in week 2 with the longest being 2m 5. I'm slowly building it up using the Hal Higdon training guide Novice 1, adapting the first 5 weeks to get me ready to be running a minimum of 3 miles each day by week 5 of my training and then starting the 18 week schedule.
I also walk over 10miles a week and have done so for a number of years.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

It would just be a dream to get round as i do very little exercise besides walking. I would settle for five hours.

How many days a week can you train?

5 Days

Why are you running this marathon?

I used to watch the London Marathon as a kid and always wanted to run a Marathon. I always enjoyed Cross Country at School, however i was put off in my late teens when my feet always hurt when running in the only previous running shoes i owned. I have recently realised that the type of running shoes used can make a huge difference which has gave me enormous drive to now give this a go. So i got assessed recently and bought a decent pair of runners.
I'm only 35 and am fed up being fat after stopping playing football a few years ago so fingers crossed i get the bug!

I don't have the greatest confidence in my legs though due to various previous football injuries to my Knees and Calves which always seemed worst when running on rock hard summer pitches.
My knees have felt a little dull ache on my longest runs at the end so far, and i got pins and needles up my feet and legs on my longest run this week, but i'm still happy as i was worried i would be in agony with knees the day after a run, and as yet have not had such issues. (Touch wood). I'm assuming as i slowly build up my fitness levels and distances, my legs should be able to take more before hurting.

Another reason to do it is my brother has run a fair few Marathons and i also have two lads in my office who run them so i want to see what all the fuss is about.

Hi there MKDTH and welcome to the thread.
Sounds like you're very committed which is great. I would however be a bit concerned about your starting point from a mileage point of view. Your 18 week programme will be starting in less than a month and the HH Novice 1 plan would have a longer run of 6 miles on the first week and you'd really want to be very comfortable with running 3 x 3 mile runs and a 6 mile run by that time. You're currently running 8 miles a week is that correct? And only running properly 2 weeks? That's a big enough jump to 15 miles by the start of the plan, but I guess it could be done. I'd just be very wary due to your previous injury issues. Is there any reason you want to run DCM this year in particular? Obviously it's 100% up to you what you want to do but I'd just advise you to consider putting it off for this year and slowly building up to a half marathon distance in the Autumn. You're still young so have plenty of time to do it slowly and carefully and would probably get much more enjoyment out of it in the long run by building up in a way that puts less pressure on you. You do sound like you have the required commitment alright but the increase in mileage might put a strain on your body that it can't handle. If you have any other questions please ask and someone will be able to help you out.