DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

KillianByrne

aquinn wrote: »

FANTASTIC, as I've very similar times.

I really think you have 4 in you, the marathon is a whole different beast to what you've raced before. Crowds, adrenaline, decent pacers (;)) its all there. Trust the training and be confident.

KillianByrne

Have I missed toenail tuesday?

pistol_75

KillianByrne wrote: »

Have I missed toenail tuesday?

That's next Tuesday

beertons

pistol_75 wrote: »

That's next Tuesday

My watch must be fast, I have 2 already.

Laois_Man

AuldManKing wrote: »

4:00 is very possible based on all you've said above.

Long runs are meant to be much slower than MP - anything from 1-2 min slower.

I have done LSRs of 18, 18.2, 20, 21 and 21.2 miles in the 6 weeks before taper began

The last one was at an average pace of 11:16 - or a total of a minute under 4 hours.

I did FD10 in just under 1:25
Skipped the HM due to injury worries

Any opinion on what my aim should be?

skittles11

Ive never thought of myself as squeamish and my line of work means I'm rarely without cuts on my hands or at least a few bruises here and there. Hearing of broken bones or dislocations has never bothered me. Where am I going with this? All the talk of toenails lifting and blackening even losing them is killing me! Feel a little sick every time someone mentions it. God help me if it ever happens to me! I think it'd be my que to give up running!

RedRunner

Laois_Man wrote: »

I have done LSRs of 18, 18.2, 20, 21 and 21.2 miles in the 6 weeks before taper began

The last one was at an average pace of 11:16 - or a total of a minute under 4 hours.

I did FD10 in just under 1:25
Skipped the HM due to injury worries

Any opinion on what my aim should be?

Hmmm...

AMK may have better opinion than me but I'd say aim for 4:30 (avg pace of 10:18)

AuldManKing

Laois_Man wrote: »

I have done LSRs of 18, 18.2, 20, 21 and 21.2 miles in the 6 weeks before taper began

The last one was at an average pace of 11:16 - or a total of a minute under 4 hours.

I did FD10 in just under 1:25
Skipped the HM due to injury worries

Any opinion on what my aim should be?

4 hrs is 9:08 pace there or there abouts.

Whats your average weekly mileage?
What pace did you run your long runs at?
How did you feel in the last mile of the FD10?

Darren 83

Would 3:50 be a hard target for me, I would like to finish knowing I did my best.

Laois_Man

AuldManKing wrote: »

4 hrs is 9:08 pace there or there abouts.

Whats your average weekly mileage?
What pace did you run your long runs at?
How did you feel in the last mile of the FD10?

That's one of the problems I should have called out. Average miles in the month or so leading to the peak was only about 32 miles per week

I started getting a lot more niggles around early August and slowed down and missed a few runs. The 11:16 pace mentioned above was fairly typical of my LSR pace since then. But I did have a really bad one around mid September that was about a minute slower.

Last mile of the FD10 was hard with that fecker of a hill but I was passing people out and there was no walking and I was still able to do a 'sprint' finish over the last 500 meters or so to come in under 1:25. Just looked back on it on Garmin Connect which shows I did that 500 meters at around 8:00 average pace - which was a hell of a sprint to me at that point.

blockic

skittles11 wrote: »

Ive never thought of myself as squeamish and my line of work means I'm rarely without cuts on my hands or at least a few bruises here and there. Hearing of broken bones or dislocations has never bothered me. Where am I going with this? All the talk of toenails lifting and blackening even losing them is killing me! Feel a little sick every time someone mentions it. God help me if it ever happens to me! I think it'd be my que to give up running!

Ha..you only become a real runner when you lose your first toenail!

Laois_Man

blockic wrote: »

Ha..you only become a real runner when you lose your first toenail!

I was born to run then!

I've NEVER had a toenail on either of my 2 smallest toes on either foot

I know, I know!

Joleigh

Laois_Man wrote: »

I was born to run then!

I've NEVER had a toenail on either of my 2 smallest toes on either foot

I know, I know!

LOL. You'll be going barefoot next!

AuldManKing

Laois_Man wrote: »

That's one of the problems I should have called out. Average miles in the month or so leading to the peak was only about 32 miles per week

I started getting a lot more niggles around early August and slowed down and missed a few runs. The 11:16 pace mentioned above was fairly typical of my LSR pace since then. But I did have a really bad one around mid September that was about a minute slower.

Last mile of the FD10 was hard with that fecker of a hill but I was passing people out and there was no walking and I was still able to do a 'sprint' finish over the last 500 meters or so to come in under 1:25. Just looked back on it on Garmin Connect which shows I did that 500 meters at around 8:00 average pace - which was a hell of a sprint to me at that point.

Wow, yours is an interesting case and a difficult one to call.

On the upside you have certainly done the long runs, so they will stand to you to get you around.

On the downside, your weekly mileage is low and your long run/weekly mileage ratio is very high - which could point to an issue maintaining the pace over 26.2 miles.

A 1:25 10 miler generally indicates "potential" to do a 4hr marathon, but with the lack of miles my advice is to stick with the 4:20/4:30 group and enjoy the experience.

On the upside, doing many long runs shows the commitment you have - I've no doubt if you added a few miles each week to your next training cycle, you'd see a massive PB.

AuldManKing

Darren 83 wrote: »

Would 3:50 be a hard target for me, I would like to finish knowing I did my best.

Hi Darren - I'm reluctant to give you advice as I know from your log that you're getting advice from your coach, so I dont want you 2nd guessing or having different opinions.

Commit to a time - 3:50 wouldn't have been beyond you, but not sure how your last 6-7 weeks has been.

Joleigh

I'll jump on the band wagon here for a bit of pace advice please!

First marathon time was 4hrs 38mins. I was running less than a year at a time. That was 6 years ago, I've been running since (minus 2 pregnancies).

I've been following Hal Higdon Intermediate 1, 18 week program
10 mile time 90mins
HM time 1.59mins

I've done all my long runs including 2 x 20 milers, average pace 10.25mm.

Is it reasonable to aim for 4hrs 10mins on the big day? I'd be happy with anything under 4.20 (or even just beating my previous time). I just don't know what pace to aim for.

Thanks in advance!

AuldManKing

Joleigh wrote: »

I'll jump on the band wagon here for a bit of pace advice please!

First marathon time was 4hrs 38mins. I was running less than a year at a time. That was 6 years ago, I've been running since (minus 2 pregnancies).

I've been following Hal Higdon Intermediate 1, 18 week program
10 mile time 90mins
HM time 1.59mins

I've done all my long runs including 2 x 20 milers, average pace 10.25mm.

Is it reasonable to aim for 4hrs 10mins on the big day? I'd be happy with anything under 4.20 (or even just beating my previous time). I just don't know what pace to aim for.

Thanks in advance!

In my opinion, based on your information - 4:10 is very boderline. I'd go with 4:20 with an aim of doing 4:19

skittles11

blockic wrote: »

Ha..you only become a real runner when you lose your first toenail!

Dam it! That means the last four years count for nothing!

neilthefunkeone

Cheers for the replies guys.. 03:59:59 it is so!!

PeterParker100

AuldManKing wrote: »

On the downside, your weekly mileage is low and your long run/weekly mileage ratio is very high - which could point to an issue maintaining the pace over 26.2 miles.

Just out of interest what would be a good/average long run/weekly mileage ratio? My long runs over the last 8 weeks have been, 16, 18.5, 14, 20, 12, 21, 20 and 14 averaging around 50% of my overall weekly mileage, with my longest midweek runs around 7-8 miles.

I'm not going to fret over it now, but just curious and wondering how this will affect my pace on the day...roll on the 27th!

Firedance

I'm watching my hopes for a 4.30 go down the drain with each post. I know its asking too much and I need to forget it.... I did most of my long runs around 10:30-11:00 pace BUT my half was 2:15 allbeit a bad day out, Athlone was 3:30, I didn't do FD 10 mile. Someone needs to bring me back to reality with a bang and tell me I'll be lucky to do 4:50 on the day

AuldManKing

Firedance wrote: »

I'm watching my hopes for a 4.30 go down the drain with each post. I know its asking too much and I need to forget it.... I did most of my long runs around 10:30-11:00 pace BUT my half was 2:15 allbeit a bad day out, Athlone was 3:30, I didn't do FD 10 mile. Someone needs to bring me back to reality with a bang and tell me I'll be lucky to do 4:50 on the day

4:30 is very adventurous..........sorry.
4:49 is doable I reckon

Firedance

AuldManKing wrote: »

4:30 is very adventurous..........sorry.
4:49 is doable I reckon

don't be sorry, I needed to hear it...

M.J.M.C

adrian522 wrote: »

My Race series times were

1:18:58 - 10 Mile
1:42:51 - half M

Would 3:50 be reasonable target? I feel I've done plenty of long runs at this stage (7 runs of 18 miles or longer). I wouldn't mind aiming for 3:45 as I've done most Marathon pace sessions at 8:30-8:35 but I should probably go out a little conservatively.

What do you think?

This just caught my eye, as I've similar times last year

1:17 - 10 Mile
1:47 - Half M
And did the Marathon in 3:50 so id say going from those numbers alone, you'll be fine. I felt fine in the 2013 DCM apart from the last mile killed me.

Good luck

adrian522

Thanks, makes me feel better alright.

AuldManKing

PeterParker100 wrote: »

Just out of interest what would be a good/average long run/weekly mileage ratio? My long runs over the last 8 weeks have been, 16, 18.5, 14, 20, 12, 21, 20 and 14 averaging around 50% of my overall weekly mileage, with my longest midweek runs around 7-8 miles.

I'm not going to fret over it now, but just curious and wondering how this will affect my pace on the day...roll on the 27th!

This could merit a thread of its own - so I'll put my thoughts and look for a good link.

In general the ratio is 20-30%, but that applies to a general week as opposed to a marathon long run week for Novices (20-22 miles).
If the OP was doing 35 miles a week and a 20m long run, would be higher than 50% of is mileage - this places a huge demand on the body and the system is not really getting strained during the week.

Laois_Man

AuldManKing wrote: »

Wow, yours is an interesting case and a difficult one to call.

On the upside you have certainly done the long runs, so they will stand to you to get you around.

On the downside, your weekly mileage is low and your long run/weekly mileage ratio is very high - which could point to an issue maintaining the pace over 26.2 miles.

A 1:25 10 miler generally indicates "potential" to do a 4hr marathon, but with the lack of miles my advice is to stick with the 4:20/4:30 group and enjoy the experience.

On the upside, doing many long runs shows the commitment you have - I've no doubt if you added a few miles each week to your next training cycle, you'd see a massive PB.

Ha. Being called an "interesting case" is a nice subtle change from being called the drama queen case of this years’ novice thread

I didn't want to say what I was thinking of going for - Wanted to see if you would think something consistent to what I was thinking...and you do - and so does RR

I would like to go out with the 4:20 pacers and I realize I may fall back to the 4:30 group because I agree that keeping pace in the last 10K may be an issue for me. Having the low weekly mileage and high long run/weekly mileage ratio was not intentional - missing runs has been a very frustrating couple of months and I did want to add more runs to it - but I'm amazed I am still between the ditches at all because all along I started off the 2014 plan as prep for DCM 2015 and I thought I would only get a certain distance into the plan this year and then drop out. But I am still seeing 2014 as the prep for 2015 but still want to do well of course - especialy with no guarantees that 2015 will be any better injury wise (Hoping missus Laois_Man doesn't read me talking about 2015 DCM or she'll lock me up...Ha)

A friend of mine is going with the 4:20 group too - so that'll help in the beginning anyway (I don't think he has a hope of doing that time). He better not be expecting me to be too chatty before or during the run though - same goes for the rest of ye!

Thanks AMK and RR for reinforcing my line of thought. Needed that!

smashiner

Pacing advice Bandwagon please:

10K PB 48 Mins, comfortable at 51-52 mins.
HM PB 1:49, normal training HM 1:53 is comfortable.
20 mile LSR done x1 at 3:04, felt ok ish afterwards.
Running a lot of HM distances since June but only got up to 15,16, 17 and 20 miles LSR's due to injury niggles and fear of blowing up my knee or ankle.
Ex footballer, age 42 and a half, Star sign Taurus (stubborn).
Aiming for sub 4 hours if possible. Going to see how I am fixed at 20 miles and settle for 4:15 if starting to fade......
Going to go out with the 4 hour pacers.

What do you guys think??

menoscemo

smashiner wrote: »

Pacing advice Bandwagon please:

10K PB 48 Mins, comfortable at 51-52 mins.
HM PB 1:49, normal training HM 1:53 is comfortable.
20 mile LSR done x1 at 3:04, felt ok ish afterwards.
Running a lot of HM distances since June but only got up to 15,16, 17 and 20 miles LSR's due to injury niggles and fear of blowing up my knee or ankle.
Ex footballer, age 42 and a half, Star sign Taurus (stubborn).
Aiming for sub 4 hours if possible. Going to see how I am fixed at 20 miles and settle for 4:15 if starting to fade......
Going to go out with the 4 hour pacers.

What do you guys think??

You're 10k converts well enough into your HM PB, so your endurance is at worst 'OK' ,but you have only 1 20 mile run done so it may be an issue in the last 10k. In saying that your 20 mile time had you on course for a 4hr finish (naught naughty, you should have ran it slower!!) so I think you will be there or thereabouts....

Pacing Mule

Interesting to read the advised target times.

My strategy from my own log is this ...

Start near the front of wave 3 in front of the 4:20 pacers. Get ahead of the congestion at water stations and hopefully have a clear road in front.
Aim to run at 4:15 pace until bottom of phoenix park.
Allow a little drop off in pace up the park if needed staying ahead of the 4:20 group. Get back on 4:15/4:20 pace then - slowing a bit from canal up to Walkinstown.
Aim to pick up a bit of time from Terenure down to Milltown.
Hopefully if strong enough take the hill up Clonskeagh at goal pace and hit Fosters avenue looking at a 4:17/4:18 finish. If all goes well push on from there aiming to get closer to 4:15. If not too strong hang on and come in closer to 4:20.

Unfortunately I have no recent 10 mile or half marathon time to base this off. 2:11:00 half done in training but that wasn't racing. I reckon if racing I could go under 2. Last 20 mile LSR done at 10:30 pace. Guess there is a little question over my endurance to take out 4:15 - 4:20 but we will see on the day