DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

Yes I do them every day but I also run every day. The odd day I'd take off I'd still do them. I've grown to really enjoy doing them though as they make me feel lovely and supple so are a positive thing overall. I do them before the run and sometimes after. Before is more important though. Just the days you run is plenty to start off with. If you do it let me know how you find it!

Will do! I'm prone to very tight hamstrings so need to keep an eye on that. I do find stretching them out using a towel looped around the foot a good one that works for me.

On the plus side the knee seems to have held up with squash tonight. Will do an easy 3 miles tomorrow and hopefully that's me on the right track. Won't rush back in either, will focus over the next few days on getting my distances at an easy pace without being too concerned about speed etc.

laura_ac3

adrian522 wrote: »

Well, all was going great up until May 21st. I'd a bit of pain in y shin/lower calf so decided to see if a few days off would sort that out. I could feel myself even sitting at my desk that it wasn't sorted so took 5 full days rest.

Went for an easy run but still I could feel some pain, nothing major but didn't want to push it so gave it some more rest.

Today makes 8 further days without running, in the mean time I've picked up a head cold so wouldn't have been running anyway.

Back into the physio tomorrow. Wish me luck, I feel like all the fitness I've built up over the last several months is going out the window.

Hopefully back doing some easy runs later on this week and back properly next week.

Try not to let your head drop too much. I know it's easier said than done, it can be so frustrating when an injury isn't progressing at all. But as Ososlo said, keep up whatever cross training you can do. Try also as well to stick to a routine if you have one - go for a walk instead of a run if you go at the same time each day.

Best of luck with it

adrian522

Thanks, I find my motivation goes to **** when I'm not running, not doing my strength work or doing the cycling, walking etc.

If I'm not given the green light tomorrow I'll try and replace the running with either swimming or cycling.

Fingers crossed.

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the leg pain:(
Did you have to walk cause the leg was hurting you or was it a fitness thing?
Hope you're back in proper order asap L_M.

I think the walking break was a once off. Wasn't feeling any pain at all - just low on energy. Hoping the leg will be alright in a day or two. Took delivery of new runners yesterday that should help my feet......if I could only get out and use them.

crisco10

Tough week just passed.

Had a 3 night/4 day stag over the weekend. Squeezed in a 10km on Sunday morning; but was in no form to do a long run on Tuesday, but forced out 12km.

Need to get back on track next week.

gingersnap

When I started running I had really bad pains on the top of my foot and behind the ankle. I got a gait analysis done and got fitted for new runners and thankfully that sorted it out for me.
I'm on my second pair now but I'm just wondering how long they will last with all the extra mileage planned!
Any advice on when to get new runners when training for the marathon?

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

When I started running I had really bad pains on the top of my foot and behind the ankle. I got a gait analysis done and got fitted for new runners and thankfully that sorted it out for me.
I'm on my second pair now but I'm just wondering how long they will last with all the extra mileage planned!
Any advice on when to get new runners when training for the marathon?

They'll last ballpark 500 miles. Any chance you could purchase a second pair and rotate them with your current pair? Both pairs should last longer if they get a rest between runs.

crisco10

Ososlo wrote: »

They'll last ballpark 500 miles. Any chance you could purchase a second pair and rotate them with your current pair? Both pairs should last longer if they get a rest between runs.

Not to mention the best advantage, when one pair gets wet you can let them dry before having to wear them again. #winning

gingersnap

Ososlo wrote: »

They'll last ballpark 500 miles. Any chance you could purchase a second pair and rotate them with your current pair? Both pairs should last longer if they get a rest between runs.

I never thought of having two pairs on the go but will definitely consider it. Will need to start saving for all these new shoes Thanks Ososlo!

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

I never thought of having two pairs on the go but will definitely consider it. Will need to start saving for all these new shoes Thanks Ososlo!

Yeah I know they're expensive but I think rotating two pairs is better for your legs and feet and you gotta be extra kind to them as the mileage increases
It'll decrease chances of injury too and 2 physio visits equals about one pair of new runners

Darren 83

If my runners get wet or after a hard session I would normally put newspaper in my runners, it soaks up the water and also keeps the shape of them. They tend to last longer as well.

earwego

Hi all ,

need massive motication to get kick started again so looking forward to this

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes DCM 2013 4 hours 50
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do) No... although perhpas after the last long weekend lol
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. I have done a few parkruns but fitness and motivation is at an all time low
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? 4 hours 29 he he (dream) realistic anything less than 4 hours 50 mins
•How many days a week can you train? 4 - 5
•Why are you running this marathon? endorphins

RunRoryRun

Hi all, going to give DCM another lash and i'm definitely still a novice!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5 mile - May 2013 - 46.48
Race series HM 2013 - 2.11
DCM 2013 - 4.59
10K - April 14 - 52.26

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Nope

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Have kept up the running in some capacity since last October. Consistency is the problem for me. Currently 15 - 25 miles a week. 3 - 4 days. Long run at the weekend. Also cycle 10k a day in / out of work.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I want to take a chunk off last years time. sub 4.30 is my target.

How many days a week can you train?
4 running (3 midweek +LSR saturday)

Why are you running this marathon?
Blew up about mile 15 in my first DCM and mile 19 in my second DCM. Walk / run / hell from there to the end.
Hadn't done enough 20+ mile LSR in either year (2012 x 1, 2013 x 2) and it caught up with me.
Unfinished business!

Optimistic about 2014!

Ososlo

RunRoryRun wrote: »

Why are you running this marathon?
Blew up about mile 15 in my first DCM and mile 19 in my second DCM. Walk / run / hell from there to the end.
Hadn't done enough 20+ mile LSR in either year (2012 x 1, 2013 x 2) and it caught up with me.

Hey Rory you've run a lot more marathons than me!!!
Just wondering why you blew up both those times. Most novice plans would only have a couple of 20 mile runs including the one we are using and it's usually sufficient for a novice marathon runner. I presume you did a few 18 mile runs too and built up your medium long run progressively too? Was your training consistent for the 18 weeks?

As a matter of interest, what pace would you have been running for your long slow training runs? Was it a lot slower than your planned marathon pace? We certainly don't want you blowing up again for 2014! Sorry for all the questions but I just think it's important to see where you might have been going wrong in training to ensure you have a better experience this time!

slingerz

adrian522 wrote: »

Well, all was going great up until May 21st. I'd a bit of pain in y shin/lower calf so decided to see if a few days off would sort that out. I could feel myself even sitting at my desk that it wasn't sorted so took 5 full days rest.

Went for an easy run but still I could feel some pain, nothing major but didn't want to push it so gave it some more rest.

Today makes 8 further days without running, in the mean time I've picked up a head cold so wouldn't have been running anyway.

Back into the physio tomorrow. Wish me luck, I feel like all the fitness I've built up over the last several months is going out the window.

Hopefully back doing some easy runs later on this week and back properly next week.

Your not alone in that regard, I havent been out for a run since May 14th making it 3 weeks for me right in the middle of the busiest period for runs locally with a whole host of 5K's and 4 Milers that I would love to be a part of.

Now i may be back up and running for them but I know i wont be able to do myself justice in them now without a few decent weeks preparation behind me

RunRoryRun

Ososlo wrote: »

Hey Rory you've run a lot more marathons than me!!!
Just wondering why you blew up both those times. Most novice plans would only have a couple of 20 mile runs including the one we are using and it's usually sufficient for a novice marathon runner. I presume you did a few 18 mile runs too and built up your medium long run progressively too? Was your training consistent for the 18 weeks?

As a matter of interest, what pace would you have been running for your long slow training runs? Was it a lot slower than your planned marathon pace? We certainly don't want you blowing up again for 2014! Sorry for all the questions but I just think it's important to see where you might have been going wrong in training to ensure you have a better experience this time!

Thanks for asking the questions, exactly why I'm here. If I don't get perspective on where I went wrong I won't improve.

Year one, training hadn't been great. Progression of the LSR was choppy at best. Missed a few planned LSR and got maybe two 18ish miles before the 20 miler.

Last year, thought the training went quite well and had a decent number of LSRs with good progression up to and including the 20+ milers. Pace was a lot slower than target pace and i went out last year at 10.30 - 10.40 min/mile with the 4.40 pacers (last years target). Felt great with them til about mile 15, then it got steadily worse. LSR pace was probably between 11.30 and 12.00 per mile but I didn't incorporate any MP miles in any of these. Really started to enjoy them last year as the mileage got higher. Only missed one LSR last year as I was on holiday - had planned a 16 miler and only got 9 miles due to the heat.

I had built up the midweek runs progressively too. Was only running 3 days per week with the sum of midweek miles equalling the LSR at the weekend (e.g. Tuesday 13 miles / Thursday 6 miles / Saturday 19 mile LSR / Sunday 90min - 120min easy cycle).

This year I'm adding an extra running day and shortening the midweek runs with one of them focusing on MP miles (e.g. Tuesday 3m Easy, Wednesday 7m MP, Thursday 3m Easy, Saturday 13m LSR).

Any thoughts appreciated!

Ososlo

RunRoryRun wrote: »

i went out last year at 10.30 - 10.40 min/mile with the 4.40 pacers (last years target). Felt great with them til about mile 15, then it got steadily worse. LSR pace was probably between 11.30 and 12.00 per mile but I didn't incorporate any MP miles in any of these. Really started to enjoy them last year as the mileage got higher. Only missed one LSR last year as I was on holiday - had planned a 16 miler and only got 9 miles due to the heat.

I'll give my 2 cents but would appreciate input from others too.
Looking at your half marathon time of 2:11, perhaps your target time of 4:40 was a little aggressive. You seemed to have done everything correctly in training so this is the only thing that sticks out for me. Maybe if you had gone out at 4:50 pace and picked it up later in the race it might have been a better strategy for you and would have lead to a more positive race experience.
I'd say this year don't pick any target until after the half marathon and work out a sensible target based on that (not using McMillan etc).
I think the main aim this year should be to have a good DCM experience as you really deserve one after the last 2 years!
What I did last year (not in Novices' plan) was to do a few mp miles at the end of the long slow run (4 usually) as it gave me a good realistic idea of what mp would feel like when you're totally fecked after running 16 miles or so and is a bit of a wake up call as to what mp really feels like. Maybe that's something you could incorporate into your long runs if you're looking to be a bit more challenged than the plan (seeing as it's your 3rd marathon).
ps The extra day of running is definitely a good idea for you this time round also.

adrian522

Visited the Physio.

She can find no obvious signs of trouble in the affected area, possibly because I've been resting for the better part of 2 weeks.

Got a bit more dry needling done, recommended I visit the "running clinic" they operate, some sort of advanced gait analysis. Sounds interesting, they'll get me on a treadmill and analyse form, and suggest corrections to prevent injury.

Anyway, once the soreness from the needling clears up I'll be back out there.

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

I'll give my 2 cents but would appreciate input from others too.
Looking at your half marathon time of 2:11, perhaps your target time of 4:40 was a little aggressive. You seemed to have done everything correctly in training so this is the only thing that sticks out for me. Maybe if you had gone out at 4:50 pace and picked it up later in the race it might have been a better strategy for you and would have lead to a more positive race experience.
I'd say this year don't pick any target until after the half marathon and work out a sensible target based on that (not using McMillan etc).
I think the main aim this year should be to have a good DCM experience as you really deserve one after the last 2 years!
What I did last year (not in Novices' plan) was to do a few mp miles at the end of the long slow run (4 usually) as it gave me a good realistic idea of what mp would feel like when you're totally fecked after running 16 miles or so and is a bit of a wake up call as to what mp really feels like. Maybe that's something you could incorporate into your long runs if you're looking to be a bit more challenged than the plan (seeing as it's your 3rd marathon).
ps The extra day of running is definitely a good idea for you this time round also.

This will make 4 cents so.

RunRoryRun

I've blown up in all three marathons I've done to date. Only difference with last one is I had some cramp issues and I fatigued a bit later than I normally do. My problem....endurance. My solution (I believe) more miles in the legs, more 20+ mile runs and more mp miles this year.

I did 4.45 off a 2:12 HM in my first marathon so I'm familiar with the territory you are in. My advice is more longer runs in your plan. Not sure what the novice plan has in store for you as I type but I think to accommodate more 18-20 mile runs you need more miles midweek too so I' d advise 5 days a week rather than 4 if can squeeze even a shortish run into the fifth day. Just my experience from last few years.

AuldManKing

RunRoryRun wrote: »

Hi all, going to give DCM another lash and i'm definitely still a novice!


Blew up about mile 15 in my first DCM and mile 19 in my second DCM. Walk / run / hell from there to the end.
Hadn't done enough 20+ mile LSR in either year (2012 x 1, 2013 x 2) and it caught up with me.
Unfinished business!

Optimistic about 2014!

How many miles per week were you doing in training for these marathons?
What was your training pace for the long runs you done?
What was your marathon pace?
How long before marathon day did you do the 20 mile runs?

AuldManKing

RedRunner wrote: »

This will make 4 cents so.

RunRoryRun

I've blown up in all three marathons I've done to date. Only difference with last one is I had some cramp issues and I fatigued a bit later than I normally do. My problem....endurance. My solution (I believe) more miles in the legs, more 20+ mile runs and more mp miles this year.

I did 4.45 off a 2:12 HM in my first marathon so I'm familiar with the territory you are in. My advice is more longer runs in your plan. Not sure what the novice plan has in store for you as I type but I think to accommodate more 18-20 mile runs you need more miles midweek too so I' d advise 5 days a week rather than 4 if can squeeze even a shortish run into the fifth day. Just my experience from last few years.

Might also be a case of needing more miles - not neccessarily long runs?
All depending on what % of his weekly run did those 20 miles take up?

He could have ran 20 miles in a 30 mile week?

AuldManKing

AuldManKing wrote: »

How many miles per week were you doing in training for these marathons?
What was your training pace for the long runs you done?
What was your marathon pace?
How long before marathon day did you do the 20 mile runs?

AuldManKing wrote: »

Might also be a case of needing more miles - not neccessarily long runs?
All depending on what % of his weekly run did those 20 miles take up?

He could have ran 20 miles in a 30 mile week?

OK- apologies - ignore my posts - just read the other posts from Rory.

Seems like more long runs alright!

RedRunner

AuldManKing wrote: »

Might also be a case of needing more miles - not neccessarily long runs?
All depending on what % of his weekly run did those 20 miles take up?

He could have ran 20 miles in a 30 mile week?

Yes, very valid point. This is why I reckoned he needs more midweek miles and the extra day as well as more longer runs. I definitely found doing more miles this year has helped my progress so I imagine that will also help Rory. The combination of more miles and more longer runs is what accounted for my big improvement this year, I'm sure of it.(And the expert advice of Menoscemo and Career_Move of course!;)) So I believe the same would apply to Rory. Everybody's different of course and I'm still searching for the magic formula with each attempt. That's the beauty of marathon running, you learn something new with each race and training block.There could also have been other factors on the day that we are not aware of.

Also I wouldn't want to appear to be criticising the novice plan for those that are running for first time as I'm purely speaking of my own experiences here and given that Rory has run two already and my experiences are very similar to his first two I thought it'd be useful to share what I know has worked for me.

Dub13

That was some day for a run, maybe a little hot in the afternoon when I went out. I got have gotten in 3 15k runs this week so far, I plan on doing a LSR over the hill of Howth tomorrow. I hope the weather is the same.

adrian522

How long will the run tomorrow be?

Ososlo

Hey guys
Just bringing this thread to your attention if you don't know about it already.
A lot of my fellow novices met up for long slow runs last year so it's something to think about for those of you who might like company on the longer runs.
Just post your username and the length of run you'll be doing and the intended pace and time/place to meet.

Dub13

adrian522 wrote: »

How long will the run tomorrow be?

Not sure of the route yet as I have not planned it but I would say between 15k and 20k.

adrian522

I'd be wary of doing too many tough runs back to back, would that be 4 15K runs in 5 days?

Dub13

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd be wary of doing too many tough runs back to back, would that be 4 15K runs in 5 days?

Yes, I did nothing Sun & Mon then 15k Tue, Wen and Today. I would normally have either a rest day on Fri or a short run with a view to doing the LSR on Sat or Sun but this weekend is made busy so that's why I moved it to Friday.

Looks like I should have taken it easy today.

adrian522

I'll let the more experienced runners chip in but seems like a lot of hard days back to back.