DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

Great stuff! That's very pro-active of you! I'm really excited to see how it goes for you. Please keep us posted once the plan proper starts! Or even better, start a log!

a log! eek! I can see how that would go.. 'ran x miles, knackered, legs tired off to bed' the hanson plan also reiterates the importance of running the right pace on prescribed days and consistency seems to be key. I think regardless of the plans we all choose, sticking to them pretty rigidly and doing recovery and easy runs at the right paces will be what get us through. Its not easy though, I actually find it quite difficult to run those very slow paces on recovery days but will persevere!

Laois_Man

An article arrived in my e-mail this morning that reminded me of recent posts here and concerns people have about losing fitness during holidays

"How to Stay Fit on Vacation"

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/how-to-stay-fit-on-vacation?cm_mmc=NL-TrainingExtra-_-1718158-_-06032014-_-How-to-Stay-Fit-on-Vacation

Great tips!I especially like the Running Tour Provider Directory that's linked in there!

JohnDozer

Just in reference to Ososlo's link regarding meetups for training runs, I'd be interested in these, but I know from looking at that thread that it tends to be Dublin based meet-ups. I just would be interested in knowing if many others on this log are based on the other side of the country (Munster) and would be interested in pursuing something like this on an occasional basis.

KillianByrne

Healthy debate is good and I hope the novices aren't put off by the differing views about training. There's a huge amount of experience being put forward by many posters and the information is all valid.

There's still time to decide on a plan for DCM14. For now, get the mileage and fitness up and take in everything that's being posted. One thing though, once you pick a plan, stick to it and go for it, youll hear a lot of posters in October saying 'Trust your training'.

You will never get a chance to do your first marathon again, this year the aim should be to complete the training, get to the startline and finish the race - Think about breaking records in 2015.

KillianByrne

Question on slotting MP miles into the LSR - does this not defeat the purpose of the LSR? Should it be done in every LSR or just occasionally? How many miles should be changed from LSR into MP, is it a % maybe?

If I'm doing 14 LSR miles this weekend, should I do 9 LSR, 4MP and 1 cool down?

A number of questions I know, but I'd say they can be solved with just one answer!

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

Question on slotting MP miles into the LSR - does this not defeat the purpose of the LSR? Should it be done in every LSR or just occasionally? How many miles should be changed from LSR into MP, is it a % maybe?

If I'm doing 14 LSR miles this weekend, should I do 9 LSR, 4MP and 1 cool down?

A number of questions I know, but I'd say they can be solved with just one answer!

It's not really a novice question killian and we don't have mp in our lsr so I can't really help but hopefully someone else can. I used to do 4 at the end of my lsr last year and found that good but I think you'll need advice from someone more experienced. You'll may want to be doing more mp miles than that.

KillianByrne

Ta, I'll take my business elsewhere so

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

Ta, I'll take my business elsewhere so

Sorry don't mean it that way!!! I'm sure one of my glamorous assistants can help you!!!

Vico1612

KillianByrne wrote: »

Question on slotting MP miles into the LSR - does this not defeat the purpose of the LSR? Should it be done in every LSR or just occasionally? How many miles should be changed from LSR into MP, is it a % maybe?

If I'm doing 14 LSR miles this weekend, should I do 9 LSR, 4MP and 1 cool down?

A number of questions I know, but I'd say they can be solved with just one answer!

The way I did it last year was once I reached half way on a LSR, I would do 2 Miles @MP , then back to LSR pace , then do the last 2Miles @MP
It made the LSR less boring :-) and was a good way to shake up the legs
My 2 cents ...

frash

Ososlo wrote: »

I'd say this year don't pick any target until after the half marathon and work out a sensible target based on that (not using McMillan etc).

I haven't done a HM yet (doing the Clontarf in July) but wondering what you mean my "not using McMillan".

menoscemo

KillianByrne wrote: »

Question on slotting MP miles into the LSR - does this not defeat the purpose of the LSR? Should it be done in every LSR or just occasionally? How many miles should be changed from LSR into MP, is it a % maybe?

If I'm doing 14 LSR miles this weekend, should I do 9 LSR, 4MP and 1 cool down?

A number of questions I know, but I'd say they can be solved with just one answer!

I'd say you don't need to MP miles every long run. It's something that becomes more important closer to the race (but only if you are chasing a goal time, if your plan is completion then MP miles are not necessary). For now if you are doing a few MP miles midweek then there is no need to put them into your long run also. The long run is already tough enough if you are moving up distance every week.

However towards the end of your plan you might want to put a few MP miles into your LSRs. E.G say your plan has 3 x 18 mile runs and 3 x 20 mile runs you might want to get a few MP miles on the end of your runs, but only once you have ran the distance easily a few times. Conquer the distance first and get comfortable at it before making the run harder by adding fast miles....so in the example above, run 18 miles easy twice and then do some Mp miles in your 3rd 18 miler. Then do the same again in the case of 20 milers. Never add MP miles before you have already 'conquered' the distance.

KillianByrne

menoscemo wrote: »

I'd say you don't need to MP miles every long run. It's something that becomes more important closer to the race (but only if you are chasing a goal time, if your plan is completion then MP miles are not necessary). For now if you are doing a few MP miles midweek then there is no need to put them into your long run also. The long run is already tough enough if you are moving up distance every week.

However towards the end of your plan you might want to put a few MP miles into your LSRs. E.G say your plan has 3 x 18 mile runs and 3 x 20 mile runs you might want to get a few MP miles on the end of your runs, but only once you have ran the distance easily a few times. Conquer the distance first and get comfortable at it before making the run harder by adding fast miles....so in the example above, run 18 miles easy twice and then do some Mp miles in your 3rd 18 miler. Then do the same again in the case of 20 milers. Never add MP miles before you have already 'conquered' the distance.

Perfect, easily understood thanks. ecoli couldn't have put it any better.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

I haven't done a HM yet (doing the Clontarf in July) but wondering what you mean my "not using McMillan".

Hi frash. Some people use www.mcmillanrunning.com to work out race times to aim for by entering a recent race result. It's good up to half marathon distance but not very accurate for most novice marathon runners to predict their marathon pace.

frash

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi frash. Some people use www.mcmillanrunning.com to work out race times to aim for by entering a recent race result. It's good up to half marathon distance but not very accurate for most novice marathon runners to predict their marathon pace.

How should we predict our MP then?

menoscemo

frash wrote: »

How should we predict our MP then?

It's an interesting question and one that does not have a definite answer.

Some of the guys that have run marathons before have it easier in this regard. E.G. If they ran 4:15 last year it's not unreasonable for them to try for sub 4 this year. Others will have a long history of running shorter distances and are maybe involved in a club where they have seen how others perform so can maybe make a reasonable prediction based on Mcmillan.

For someone new to runing my advice would be to just be very conservative at least for now. A reasonable estimate would be to add 10% to whatever McMillan predicts based on your race times from 5k-Half Marathon. As you train more and do longer runs you should get a better idea yourself.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

How should we predict our MP then?

Also look at the google doc link on post 1about determining marathon time.

frash

Ososlo wrote: »

Also look at the google doc link on post 1about determining marathon time.

Oh missed that doc - very helpful

Thanks

earwego

hi all... just wondering for those of us based in Dublin - is anyone interested in meeting up for some runs midweek... during lunch (if you get to take one) or immediately after work/before work... just a thought...

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

It only includes the 10 miles and half marathon in the Race Series, but if you're doing the other races we can advise you the week before as to what kind of adjustments you should make to your week of training.

Cheers, I will also have to incorporate the Clontarf half on July 5th into the plan. You will be sick of me come Oct.

I went out this morning for my LSR over the hill of Howth, got in 19k. I took it easy as the legs had a good few miles in them over the last 2 weeks. The hill is a decent elevation so will slow you down anyway.

I did however lash in a few MP km's at the end just to see how the legs reacted to the pace after a had week and a decent hill climb.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/514888884

Murph_D

Dub13 wrote: »

I went out this morning for my LSR over the hill of Howth, got in 19k. I took it easy as the legs had a good few miles in them over the last 2 weeks. The hill is a decent elevation so will slow you down anyway.

Nice going on the hills. If anything it's the downhill that slows you down! What MP are you aiming at?

Dub13

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice going on the hills. If anything it's the downhill that slows you down! What MP are you aiming at?

I am looking to go sub 4 hours, so going to aim for around 5.30 per KM or 9 min mile.

KillianByrne

Laois_Man wrote: »

An article arrived in my e-mail this morning that reminded me of recent posts here and concerns people have about losing fitness during holidays

"How to Stay Fit on Vacation"

http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/how-to-stay-fit-on-vacation?cm_mmc=NL-TrainingExtra-_-1718158-_-06032014-_-How-to-Stay-Fit-on-Vacation

Great tips!I especially like the Running Tour Provider Directory that's linked in there!

I'm currently enjoying planning some routes on the Garmin for when we're in France for the next couple of weeks. 1st 20m run planned for the day before we get the ferry home. If I stick to plan and get them all done I know I'm a changed man!

ciaranmac

KillianByrne wrote: »

I'm currently enjoying planning some routes on the Garmin for when we're in France for the next couple of weeks. 1st 20m run planned for the day before we get the ferry home. If I stick to plan and get them all done I know I'm a changed man!

I did this a few weeks ago on holiday in Paris, 6k one morning in Jardins de Luxembourg and 13k the following day up to the Tuileries and along the river. First time gong for a long run abroad, and I can't recommend it highly enough. You see loads more when you're running than you would from a tour bus!

Krusty_Clown

ciaranmac wrote: »

I did this a few weeks ago on holiday in Paris, 6k one morning in Jardins de Luxembourg and 13k the following day up to the Tuileries and along the river. First time gong for a long run abroad, and I can't recommend it highly enough. You see loads more when you're running than you would from a tour bus!

Absolutely agree. Best way to see a city or area. Remember, on most Garmin watches, you can save your starting location and then have it track back (or give you a compass) to find your way back to your starting point). Also, be careful when running in the French countryside. French drivers are nutters.

Firedance

earwego wrote: »

hi all... just wondering for those of us based in Dublin - is anyone interested in meeting up for some runs midweek... during lunch (if you get to take one) or immediately after work/before work... just a thought...

i do lunchtime runs on Mondays & Fridays around the port / docklands areas although my pace is possibly a lot slower. Would be interested if there's a group going out :-)

Bulmers74

KillianByrne wrote: »

Question on slotting MP miles into the LSR - does this not defeat the purpose of the LSR? Should it be done in every LSR or just occasionally? How many miles should be changed from LSR into MP, is it a % maybe?

If I'm doing 14 LSR miles this weekend, should I do 9 LSR, 4MP and 1 cool down?

A number of questions I know, but I'd say they can be solved with just one answer!

FWIW last year I only incorporated mp miles into my lsr on the 6th of October for a bit of confidence. I did a 30k race doing the first 20 @ lsr pace & the final 10 @ mp.

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi Laura
I think HH2 might suit you very well just by glancing at it. I'll have a more in-depth look at it later. After reading Murph's comments it looks like a very good plan which served him well.
By the way, there's no problem adapting any plan to include extra miles onto the lsrs. Instead of an 18 later in the plan you could do a 19 or 20.
I think we had some novices following the HH2 plan last year too so it'd be great if they could relay their experiences of the plan.

Thanks! Think I might go with this one alright, maybe push some of the lsrs out by another mile. Right - decision made, no going back now

Murph_D

ciaranmac wrote: »

I did this a few weeks ago on holiday in Paris, 6k one morning in Jardins de Luxembourg and 13k the following day up to the Tuileries and along the river. First time gong for a long run abroad, and I can't recommend it highly enough. You see loads more when you're running than you would from a tour bus!

I managed to get lost in Rome last summer. Couldn't find the Colosseum, if you can believe that!

Murph_D

Dub13 wrote: »

I am looking to go sub 4 hours, so going to aim for around 5.30 per KM or 9 min mile.

Looks like your pacing is about right - nice.

Pacing Mule

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Thanks! Think I might go with this one alright, maybe push some of the lsrs out by another mile. Right - decision made, no going back now

This sounds like a good plan to me. Was half thinking of doing the same. I am not 100% sure I have the required mileage in me to go with the boards plan. There is a more gradual build up mileage wise on the HH novice 2 plan in the first few weeks (as it factors in step back weeks on the LSR) but that does mean you are left a little shorter on the quantity of longer long runs. Tweaking a little extra onto each LSR to get in 2 x 20 milers would be a good compromise between the two.