DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

PaulPh wrote: »

Hi

Enjoying reading the 2014 DCM tread so far!! Plenty of information and good honest straight to the point advice.

In the last few weeks I've been feeling a few dull pains in the right knee especially on the longer runs and have been down to see the local Physio. The problem seem to be to the knee patella not tracking as it should due to weak glutes and poor flexibility in the hip area.. otherwise the knee seems fine. To be honest I've neglected to work on flexibility and core strengthening for a couple of years as everything seemed fine before.
This has caused me to reduce my running to 10km only this week but have been able to Cycle instead and do strengthening exercises with little pain.

I'm hoping to continue to keep the running miles low until i feel on top of this problem... I'm I fooling myself to think i can pick the training up a couple of weeks into the plan. I feel i'm making progress with the physio. What do people think?? Lets have it straight and honest!!!

Thanks Paul

hey Paul
so you did about 6 miles this week. What would your training have been like for the last few weeks up to this? Weekly mileage and long slow run length? Have you got a good base behind you?
One thing is for sure, don't force the training if you have any pain. What did physio say about training?

PaulPh

Hi Ososlo

I've been pretty consistent for the last 3-4 of years of around 25-30 km a week normally in 3 runs, but have recently been concentrated doing more speedwork, fartlek runs, hills to improve 5-10 km times. So would be happy to say i would have a decent base. As for longer distance runs haven't run over 15km in a few weeks.

I'm just a bit hesitant to start upping the miles/kms with this knee as it is but would love to run the DCM this year. Would just hate to finish the marathon limping over the line!!

Ososlo

PaulPh wrote: »

Hi Ososlo

I've been pretty consistent for the last 3-4 of years of around 25-30 km a week normally in 3 runs, but have recently been concentrated doing more speedwork, fartlek runs, hills to improve 5-10 km times. So would be happy to say i would have a decent base. As for longer distance runs haven't run over 15km in a few weeks.

I'm just a bit hesitant to start upping the miles/kms with this knee as it is but would love to run the DCM this year. Would just hate to finish the marathon limping over the line!!

Well you'd certainly have a better base behind you than a lot of novices and certainly a good enough base to start a plan in a few weeks. However, you can't run with pain so it really is just a case of wait and see how things are over the next few weeks. Have you been given exercises by your physio and are you doing them religiously? Are they working?
Considering your base, I don't think it would be a huge stretch to delay the plan proper by a week or two (answering your original q) and building up accordingly then but you have to get the knee pain sorted before making any plans really. Has your physio said it's ok to run at the moment?
Do you foam roll btw?

RedRunner

PaulPh wrote: »

Hi

Enjoying reading the 2014 DCM tread so far!! Plenty of information and good honest straight to the point advice.

In the last few weeks I've been feeling a few dull pains in the right knee especially on the longer runs and have been down to see the local Physio. The problem seem to be to the knee patella not tracking as it should due to weak glutes and poor flexibility in the hip area.. otherwise the knee seems fine. To be honest I've neglected to work on flexibility and core strengthening for a couple of years as everything seemed fine before.
This has caused me to reduce my running to 10km only this week but have been able to Cycle instead and do strengthening exercises with little pain.

I'm hoping to continue to keep the running miles low until i feel on top of this problem... I'm I fooling myself to think i can pick the training up a couple of weeks into the plan. I feel i'm making progress with the physio. What do people think?? Lets have it straight and honest!!!

Thanks Paul

Hey Paul,

I'd say basically what Ososlo said but I'll add that I actually had the same problem as you just before DCM2013 and had to pull out just days before the race. Sounds like you've a decent base so follow the physio advice and don't run with pain and you'll be back soon enough. I got back within a few weeks and followed a full marathon training plan as a result. Speedy recovery.

PaulPh

Ososlo wrote: »

Well you'd certainly have a better base behind you than a lot of novices and certainly a good enough base to start a plan in a few weeks. However, you can't run with pain so it really is just a case of wait and see how things are over the next few weeks. Have you been given exercises by your physio and are you doing them religiously? Are they working?
Considering your base, I don't think it would be a huge stretch to delay the plan proper by a week or two (answering your original q) and building up accordingly then but you have to get the knee pain sorted before making any plans really. Has your physio said it's ok to run at the moment?
Do you foam roll btw?

Yeah Physio gave strengthening and stretching exercises to follow which I'm doing as planned... He was happy enough for me to continue running. Would foam roll calves, quads a couple of times a week but ignored glutes and general hip flexibility just ignorance really. Kinda has me thinking along the lines of pilaties classes or something of that nature to help things along if that would help.

GOOSEPAUL

Good morning runners,

Not too much done last week as I wanted to rest up well for Strawberry Half Marathon. Times & distances for the week are as follows.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/514134120
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/516536775

Was really comfortable doing the half marathon. Never really struggled and I could have put in a few more miles. Legs feel fine this morning but will rest and do a recovery run tomorrow. One of my friends who runs these events with me collapsed due to dehydration but I am glad to say that the medical staff were excellent and he is ok. It put it into perspective just how important it is to hydrate before, during and after the race. The sad thing is he was 2 miles from finishing and on course to get a pb of 1:45.

The plan for this week is to increase my lsr for Sunday as I feel I can push on now that little further.

Good to see a few more novices join the group. Enjoy the runs and keep up the good work guys.

crisco10

A series of relatively short runs for me last week:

Monday: Rest (only time I moved was a 4km stroll with other half)
Tuesday: 12km "LSR". (I was a broken man after bank holiday weekend)
Wednesday: 7km Easy
Thursday: 5km easy & Tag Rugby
Friday: Core Strength Class & 6km Easy
Saturday: Marlay Parkrun PB! (19:32)...On a side note, I remembered to give the camera a big smile on the home stretch, but then the picture was over exposed! typical.

Feeling nice and rested after all those short runs. Actually looking at the boards plan and notice it starts in 2 weeks, but it is a bit behind where I am at the moment in terms of mileage. Would it be mad to jump in at week 3 or so and give myself some slack in the training plan for injury/races etc?

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

A series of relatively short runs for me last week:

Monday: Rest (only time I moved was a 4km stroll with other half)
Tuesday: 12km "LSR". (I was a broken man after bank holiday weekend)
Wednesday: 7km Easy
Thursday: 5km easy & Tag Rugby
Friday: Core Strength Class & 6km Easy
Saturday: Marlay Parkrun PB! (19:32, came 23rd overall!)...On a side note, I remembered to give the camera a big smile on the home stretch, but then the picture was over exposed! typical.

Feeling nice and rested after all those short runs. Actually looking at the boards plan and notice it starts in 2 weeks, but it is a bit behind where I am at the moment in terms of mileage. Would it be mad to jump in at week 3 or so and give myself some slack in the training plan for injury/races etc?

Fabulous Parkrun time! Well done on the pb! Your training seems to be going realy well.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't jump into the plan a few weeks on. Any plan can be tweaked to suit your current starting point and yes you could repeat weeks or take step-back weeks for races etc during it if necessary. I know a few people last year started the plan early to allow for sickness/injury and it worked out fine for them and they just repeated weeks (and got in more lsrs which is never a bad thing) or took a few easier weeks here and there later on in the training block.
Good luck!

MKDTH

Week 4 runs 9.76 miles, 105 mins, was supposed to be a easier week to enable my body to get some energy back so slightly less than the week befores efforts. Still losing weight!
Looking forward to Malahide 5k on saturday

neilthefunkeone

So last week consisted of:

Tue: 3.5m - 2x laps of Clonskeagh
Wed: 5m - Milltown/n11/fosters av/roebuck.
Thur: 5m - As above
Sun: 10m - Phoenix park

Have been getting some bad blistering in the Sketchers Gorun 2 i have been using and they are wearing down quick too so went to Amphibian King and got fitted for a few pairs of runners. Went with the Mizuno wave hitogami.. Staff were great there and loads of help and knowledge!

KillianByrne

Couldn't keep up yesterday, couldn't slow down today!

Plan was 6m @ 9:53. There was wind, and it seemed to be head on uphill and blowing me downhill. Thats my excuse...

Actual
9:40
9:19
10:05
9:59
9:23
9:29
Garmin: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/517070803#.U5Wqx0X9Z0Q.twitter

Darren 83

So the clubs new training block is in for this month and would like to mix it into my plan the novice plan is as follows

Monday:Rest
Tuesday: 4 miles
Wednesday: 7 miles @pace
Thursday: 4 miles
Friday: Rest
Saturday:14 mile lsr
Sunday:Cross train

In order to do one club session a week and avoid back to back hard sessions I was thinking of the following

Monday:Rest
Tuesday: 7 miles @ pace
Wednesday: 4 miles
Thursday: Club session
Friday: Rest
Saturday:14 mile lsr
Sunday:Cross train

Does this look ok? any input would be appreciated

Nicsx

I was looking at the boards plan & saw that there are quite a few 3 & 4m easy runs. Is there any downside to turning these into 5m easy? Hopefully it's not a silly question!

Ososlo

Darren 83 wrote: »

So the clubs new training block is in for this month and would like to mix it into my plan the novice plan is as follows

Monday:Rest
Tuesday: 4 miles
Wednesday: 7 miles @pace
Thursday: 4 miles
Friday: Rest
Saturday:14 mile lsr
Sunday:Cross train

In order to do one club session a week and avoid back to back hard sessions I was thinking of the following

Monday:Rest
Tuesday: 7 miles @ pace
Wednesday: 4 miles
Thursday: Club session
Friday: Rest
Saturday:14 mile lsr
Sunday:Cross train

Does this look ok? any input would be appreciated

Looks very well planned out to me Darren. Obviously if you feel very tired from the club session you could try to push the lsr out until the Sunday and you might drop the club sessions altogether in September/October depending on what they are and how beneficial they are to marathon training. But looks great to me for now. I'd do the Wednesday run very easy (recovery effort) and no more than 35-40 minutes.

Ososlo

Nicsx wrote: »

I was looking at the boards plan & saw that there are quite a few 3 & 4m easy runs. Is there any downside to turning these into 5m easy? Hopefully it's not a silly question!

No such thing as a silly question!
If the run is the day after a tough session (long slow run or pace run where you're putting in a lot of effort or a club session) then I'd stick with the 3 or 4 as it's a recovery run so should be very short and very easy. If it's on a day where you're not tired from a harder/longer run the day before, then it's fine to do 5. An extra mile or two here or there is not going to make any huge difference. Just make sure you're very very fresh and rested in preparation for the day of a long slow run or pace run. Hope that makes sense!

Darren 83

Ososlo wrote: »

Looks very well planned out to me Darren. Obviously if you feel very tired from the club session you could try to push the lsr out until the Sunday and you might drop the club sessions altogether in September/October depending on what they are and how beneficial they are to marathon training. But looks great to me for now. I'd do the Wednesday run very easy (recovery effort) and no more than 35-40 minutes.

At the moment club sessions are built around marathon training so would be beneficial to me at this stage as for Wednesday will take it a a recovery run, I would normally do the lsr on Sunday depends what way I'm working. The Thursday session is in the local track a stone throw away so I'm not doing too much mileage on top off a hard session.

Ososlo

How are people getting on with the increase in days of training per week? Will everyone following the Boards plan be up to 5 days a week by the start of the plan and those following HH up to 4 days per week?
Also the longer runs will be up to 8 miles for Boards Plan and 6 miles for HH for the first week so bear that in mind too. You don't want the first week of the plan being too big an increase so step it up gradually.
One more thing, don't get freaked out by 'The Plan' starting soon. It's just a continuation of your current training (with a bit of pace work in the Boards plan) so nothing to get worked up about. The increases in mileage happen so gradually once the plan starts that you'll hardly notice
Happy training:D

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

How are people getting on with the increase in days of training per week? Will everyone following the Boards plan be up to 5 days a week by the start of the plan and those following HH up to 4 days per week?
Also the longer runs will be up to 8 miles for Boards Plan and 6 miles for HH for the first week so bear that in mind too. You don't want the first week of the plan being too big an increase so step it up gradually.
One more thing, don't get freaked out by 'The Plan' starting soon. It's just a continuation of your current training (with a bit of pace work in the Boards plan) so nothing to get worked up about. The increases in mileage happen so gradually once the plan starts that you'll hardly notice
Happy training:D

Started my plan last week to allow time for my holiday and an extra week in case of injury/illness. Felt great to get it started proper...not sure why exactly! I think I like the focus of following specific plans for certain events, makes it more real maybe. I am going to find it tough fitting in the runs this week for various reasons. It's left me contemplating getting up at 6am on Saturday to do my last run of the week before heading off to the airport....that could be a pipe dream

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Started my plan last week to allow time for my holiday and an extra week in case of injury/illness. Felt great to get it started proper...not sure why exactly! I think I like the focus of following specific plans for certain events, makes it more real maybe. I am going to find it tough fitting in the runs this week for various reasons. It's left me contemplating getting up at 6am on Saturday to do my last run of the week before heading off to the airport....that could be a pipe dream

Great! You're really on top of things! I know what you mean about having exact structure with a training with a plan. I'm the same. I like to know exactly what I'm doing every day/week.
6am on Saturday would certainly show a lot of dedication! Go for it! Think how good you'll feel after it! Totally worth it:)

ecoli

laura_ac3 wrote: »

It's left me contemplating getting up at 6am on Saturday to do my last run of the week before heading off to the airport....that could be a pipe dream

There is a 400m hurdler named Felix Sanchez (2012 Olympic winner) who earlier in his career went 3 years undefeated. I remember seeing an interview with him saying how he used to get up at 4 am to train. His reasoning for this was simple, he got a huge mental boost from knowing the fact that while his competitors were sleeping he was hard at it training.

Just think of the mental strength it will give you in October remembering those hard days when you managed to overcome the temptation to stay in bed (and sure can sleep on they plane )

Also if you are having hesitation there is a youtube video that you will find if you search "the grind + running". Kinda cheesy but might just help you not hit the snooze button

(Use every tool available to you to help you mentally get through the hard days and it will stand to you)

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

Great! You're really on top of things! I know what you mean about having exact structure with a training with a plan. I'm the same. I like to know exactly what I'm doing every day/week.
6am on Saturday would certainly show a lot of dedication! Go for it! Think how good you'll feel after it! Totally worth it:)

ecoli wrote: »

(Use every tool available to you to help you mentally get through the hard days and it will stand to you)

Thanks for the extra motivation guys, just a thought at this stage but if the week goes as planned it could up the best option to do all the scheduled runs. I actually do like going for a run before work sometimes - especially in the summer. But before holidays will require extra motivation but as you say ecoli it will all stand to something at the end of it (fingers crossed!)

Now to go find mentioned YouTube video to set as motivational bookmark

KillianByrne

ecoli wrote: »

Also if you are having hesitation there is a youtube video that you will find if you search "the grind + running". Kinda cheesy but might just help you not hit the snooze button

(Use every tool available to you to help you mentally get through the hard days and it will stand to you)

Damn you ecoli- I've just spent the last hour watching motivational videos. I want to go out and run a marathon RIGHT NOW.

ecoli

KillianByrne wrote: »

Damn you ecoli- I've just spent the last hour watching motivational videos. I want to go out and run a marathon RIGHT NOW.

Don't worry i'll post my pre race motivation youtube clips later in the plan when you get sick of those ones

(have about 40 min of material I have to watch as part of my ritual the day of races)

laura_ac3

KillianByrne wrote: »

Damn you ecoli- I've just spent the last hour watching motivational videos. I want to go out and run a marathon RIGHT NOW.

Ha! Thanks ecoli, cheesy indeed but now I'll definitely have that in the back of head Saturday morning. Maybe not quite as long an internal monlogue cause I'll still be half asleep but the general gist of it anyway. Is it weird that I think the voiceover person sounds like what would happen if you crossed George Clooney with the film trailer voice over man???

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

How are people getting on with the increase in days of training per week? Will everyone following the Boards plan be up to 5 days a week by the start of the plan and those following HH up to 4 days per week?
Also the longer runs will be up to 8 miles for Boards Plan and 6 miles for HH for the first week so bear that in mind too. You don't want the first week of the plan being too big an increase so step it up gradually.
One more thing, don't get freaked out by 'The Plan' starting soon. It's just a continuation of your current training (with a bit of pace work in the Boards plan) so nothing to get worked up about. The increases in mileage happen so gradually once the plan starts that you'll hardly notice
Happy training:D

I am actually really looking forward to starting the plan. I have done several Half's and loads of 10ks but have never followed a plan, I always just ran as much as I could during the week and did longer runs at the weekend. Not very scientific stuff, more forest gump. Stuff like running half distance over the hill of howth in training with the idea been sure if you can do it over hills it will be easy on the flat. No thought put into pace, just ran as fast as I felt I could each day.

So I am looking forward to doing a proper thought out plan, see how the body reacts to that. I do feel I was over training and probably still am, I am doing about 40 odd miles a week. I do have a concern about dropping down to 20 miles a week, but maybe it will be good for the body to have a rest.

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

I am actually really looking forward to starting the plan. I have done several Half's and loads of 10ks but have never followed a plan, I always just ran as much as I could during the week and did longer runs at the weekend. Not very scientific stuff, more forest gump. Stuff like running half distance over the hill of howth in training with the idea been sure if you can do it over hills it will be easy on the flat. No thought put into pace, just ran as fast as I felt I could each day.

So I am looking forward to doing a proper thought out plan, see how the body reacts to that. I do feel I was over training and probably still am, I am doing about 40 odd miles a week. I do have a concern about dropping down to 20 miles a week, but maybe it will be good for the body to have a rest.

:eek:
I don't think you should drop from 40 miles a week down to 20! No way! By all means step back a little bit if you feel you need to but those miles will serve you SO WELL for marathon training! Seriously! I started my plan last year at around 45 miles a week and just gradually increased it up to about 55 miles per week. You have a wonderful base. Don't flush it all down the toilet!
There's nothing to say that just because you're a novice and haven't run a marathon that you can't start from a higher mileage.
Is it the Boards plan you want to follow? If it is we might be able to tweak it a bit for you based on your current mileage. Let me know.

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

Is it the Boards plan you want to follow? If it is we might be able to tweak it a bit for you based on your current mileage. Let me know.

Yes it is the boards plan, would love it to be tweaked if it was not to much hassle. I think I also posted here that I am doing all the Race series and the Clontarf half so was always going to be a bit different anyway.

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes it is the boards plan, would love it to be tweaked if it was not to much hassle. I think I also posted here that I am doing all the Race series and the Clontarf half so was always going to be a bit different anyway.

Do you understand what I mean though and do you feel the same about dropping the mileage? It's my opinion at the end of the day but I don't think many would disagree. Your training should always be progressive so it just wouldn't make any sense to me to cut back to half of what you're currently doing:eek:
If you do feel you're overtraining a bit then definitely cut back a bit but unless it's at serious levels then I think you should use all those hours and hours of miles to your benefit and bring them with you to marathon training. The more miles you have behind you the easier it'll be.

Put up a typical week's training when you have the time and we'll have a look at it.
pm it if you prefer

YourPaceOrMine

Ososlo wrote: »

How are people getting on with the increase in days of training per week? Will everyone following the Boards plan be up to 5 days a week by the start of the plan and those following HH up to 4 days per week?
Also the longer runs will be up to 8 miles for Boards Plan and 6 miles for HH for the first week so bear that in mind too. You don't want the first week of the plan being too big an increase so step it up gradually.
One more thing, don't get freaked out by 'The Plan' starting soon. It's just a continuation of your current training (with a bit of pace work in the Boards plan) so nothing to get worked up about. The increases in mileage happen so gradually once the plan starts that you'll hardly notice
Happy training:D

I'm probably thinking of following HH, I don't think I could do 5 days or I'd be served divorce papers! We're up to 15 miles lsr today, so can adjust the long runs in the plan to suit? HH doesn't have enough long long runs and the jumps are pretty big!

Ososlo

YourPaceOrMine wrote: »

I'm probably thinking of following HH, I don't think I could do 5 days or I'd be served divorce papers! We're up to 15 miles lsr today, so can adjust the long runs in the plan to suit? HH doesn't have enough long long runs and the jumps are pretty big!

ha ha we don't want a divorce on our hands:D Best play it safe;)
Wow that's great mileage to be up to on the lsr! Don't go too much higher for the moment I'd say and make sure you drop it back a bit every 3/4 weeks as per Hal's plan.
Yes absolutely adjust the long runs to suit yourself. If you need any advice on any of the particular weeks someone will be able to help you out here. The more long runs the better for sure!