DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

Do you understand what I mean though and do you feel the same about dropping the mileage? It's my opinion at the end of the day but I don't think many would disagree. Your training should always be progressive so it just wouldn't make any sense to me to cut back to half of what you're currently doing:eek:
If you do feel you're overtraining a bit then definitely cut back a bit but unless it's at serious levels then I think you should use all those hours and hours of miles to your benefit and bring them with you to marathon training. The more miles you have behind you the easier it'll be.

Put up a typical week's training when you have the time and we'll have a look at it.
pm it if you prefer

Yes I agree with you, I feel a better way to go would be to keep up the millage but slow it all or most of it down. I have been doing most of my mid week miles at about marathon pace or close enough.

A typical week would be 4/5 mid week runs between 10k & 15k each. Bar my recovery runs I never go out and do less than 10k. As my LSR on Sat has got longer I have started to take the day before it off to rest the legs. So a typical week...

Sun 3k Recovery
Mon 12k
Tue 12k
Wen 12k
Thu 12k
Fri Rest (gym session)
Sat LSR between 15k & 25k

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes I agree with you, I feel a better way to go would be to keep up the millage but slow it all or most of it down. I have been doing most of my mid week miles at about marathon pace or close enough.

HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING FROM THIS THREAD!!!!:D
Yes slow it down...
Leave that with me. I'll have to convert it to miles first:rolleyes: and will play around with it then. If anyone reading the above thinks there is any established plan that might suit Dub13 better than the Boards plan please jump in.
Continue what you're doing at the moment... more slowly;)

adrian522

I'm following the BAA.org intermediate plan, amending it slightly to fit in the races I want to do, but for Dub13 it may work too.

There is a good mix of MP and easy miles.

Let me know if you are thinking about it...

http://www.baa.org/programs/training-programs/marathon-training/intermediate-16-week-program.aspx

menoscemo

Ososlo wrote: »

HAVE YOU LEARNED NOTHING FROM THIS THREAD!!!!:D
Yes slow it down...
Leave that with me. I'll have to convert it to miles first:rolleyes: and will play around with it then. If anyone reading the above thinks there is any established plan that might suit Dub13 better than the Boards plan please jump in.
Continue what you're doing at the moment... more slowly;)

He could easily do P&D advanced marathoning 35-55 mpw plan. You can get a pdf of the plan off the internet but best buy and read the book to get an explanation of the different paces/workouts etc (and the reasoning behind them).

JohnDozer

Just a suggestion, but the 16 week BAA intermediate plan might suit in being able to transition into it easily enough as week 1 starts off at a range of 33 -43 miles? It has two tempos in it each week as well as the long run so might suit somebody who is already running 40 mpw and is inclined to run that bit faster, as long as they remember to slow right down on the easy days of course?

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

I'm following the BAA.org intermediate plan, amending it slightly to fit in the races I want to do, but for Dub13 it may work too.

There is a good mix of MP and easy miles.

Let me know if you are thinking about it...

http://www.baa.org/programs/training-programs/marathon-training/intermediate-16-week-program.aspx

Actually that's very interesting adrian and Dub13 you should definitely have a look at it. I think a few other Boardsies followed it recently enough so might be able to jump in with their experiences of it. Thanks adrian!

Ososlo

menoscemo wrote: »

He could easily do P&D advanced marathoning 35-55 mpw plan. You can get a pdf of the plan off the internet but best buy and read the book to get an explanation of the different paces/workouts etc (and the reasoning behind them).

Great idea meno. I have the book so can scan you the pages for that training plan tomorrow if you want Dub13 to have a look at?

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

Great idea meno. I have the book so can scan you the pages for that training plan tomorrow if you want Dub13 to have a look at?

I am open to anything and yes I have learned to slow things down and am doing it slowly. Its part of the reason why I was concerned about dropping down to 20 odd miles & slowing down. Doing half the miles and slower did not make sense even for me.

menoscemo

Ososlo wrote: »

Great idea meno. I have the book so can scan you the pages for that training plan tomorrow if you want Dub13 to have a look at?

I would really recommend reading the book cover to cover. It's the first good explanation I ever got about why i needed to slow my easy runs down (and do the recovery ones even slower). After reading that book, the penny finally dropped!!

Ososlo

menoscemo wrote: »

I would really recommend reading the book cover to cover. It's the first good explanation I ever got about why i needed to slow my easy runs down (and do the recovery ones even slower). After reading that book, the penny finally dropped!!

yes absolutely agree, just meant if he wanted to have a quick peak at what's involved before making the purchase.

adrian522

Think this is the plan Meno is talking about

http://www.derekleewo.com/djapps/trainingPlans/viewPlan/5/

18 weeks maxes out at 55 MPW.

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

Think this is the plan Meno is talking about

http://www.derekleewo.com/djapps/trainingPlans/viewPlan/5/

18 weeks maxes out at 55 MPW.

The mileage is about right but this seems like a light version. In the book it has 2 more Long runs with MP sections, a few more LT runs too.

Dub13

On the phone now so cant have a decent look but that BAA.org intermediate plan looks very good, its only a 16 week plan. Any issues with that..? Could actually suite as I have 2 races in the 2 weeks before.

adrian522

Dub13 wrote: »

On the phone now so cant have a decent look but that BAA.org intermediate plan looks very good, its only a 16 week plan. Any issues with that..? Could actually suite as I have 2 races in the 2 weeks before.

I plan to start it the week starting June 30th, that's a week early but I imagine that week will get eaten up either by a need for a step back week, getting sick or taking a holiday.

Gives a bit of flexibility anyway.

JohnDozer

I'm the same, starting that BAA plan next Monday. Have to factor in two weeks holidays and another week for anything else that might go wrong. Really looking forward to getting stuck into a plan, been running for a while but managed to consciously avoid doing intervals and all that other nasty stuff before! Realising now the error of my ways... I'm looking forward to trying to program the garmin for the intervals less than actually running them!

adrian522

Created a spreadsheet based on the plan, if anyone wants a look. Color coded and all

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13AuPkY07wXfnrSsZ-SkBwUMbzlnXDNlTY30-gN8fS2s/edit?usp=sharing

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Created a spreadsheet based on the plan, if anyone wants a look. Color coded and all

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13AuPkY07wXfnrSsZ-SkBwUMbzlnXDNlTY30-gN8fS2s/edit?usp=sharing

Nice plan! Wouldn't be doing that tempo 2 days before the 10 mile and half marathon though!

adrian522

Yeah, I need to make some changes to the few days before and after the tune up races, just copied and pasted the plan in so far and inserted the dates and the races I want to do.

Sauve

Wading in with a quick marathon training question, hope ye don't mind.
Once or twice a week, would it make a difference if I split my pace runs (but not the long one) into two sessions, ie half in the morning and half in the evening? Or would that have a negative effect?

It's purely for time restraint purposes that I thought I might do this...

Ososlo

Sauve wrote: »

Wading in with a quick marathon training question, hope ye don't mind.
Once or twice a week, would it make a difference if I split my pace runs (but not the long one) into two sessions, ie half in the morning and half in the evening? Or would that have a negative effect?

It's purely for time restraint purposes that I thought I might do this...

Hi Sauve,
What plan are you following? Most plans have a mid-week run that gradually increases as the weeks go on and I think it's an important run to keep as one run for maximum training benefit. Is it the medium-long run you mean or one of the shorter easy runs? If it's the latter then I don't think it's a problem really.
I don't think it would have a negative effect as such to break up any run but you wouldn't be getting the biggest benefit out of the run by splitting it.

Sauve

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi Sauve,
What plan are you following? Most plans have a mid-week run that gradually increases as the weeks go on and I think it's an important run to keep as one run for maximum training benefit. Is it the medium-long run you mean or one of the shorter easy runs? If it's the latter then I don't think it's a problem really.
I don't think it would have a negative effect as such to break up any run but you wouldn't be getting the biggest benefit out of the run by splitting it.

Thanks Ososlo
I'm going to do the Hal Higdon Intermediate 1, the two I'd think of splitting are the two medium ones (wk 1 - it's 1 x5m and 1x5m pace). The short ones I'll do with my club as the usual 300m interval and 1mile intervals.
If there's no/negative benefit I guess I'll just shuffle things around and get it all in one session. I need to give myself all the help I can get here!

Ososlo

Sauve wrote: »

I'm going to do the Hal Higdon Intermediate 1, the two I'd think of splitting are the two medium ones (wk 1 - it's 1 x5m and 1x5m pace). The short ones I'll do with my club as the usual 300m interval and 1mile intervals.
If there's no/negative benefit I guess I'll just shuffle things around and get it all in one session. I need to give myself all the help I can get here!

For that 1x5m pace run it is probably best to do as one run when you can manage to fit it in.
Make sure you're having easy/recovery days before and after those club session and not a pace run.

Sauve

Ososlo wrote: »

For that 1x5m pace run it is probably best to do as one run when you can manage to fit it in.

Sound. 6am starts it is so! :P
Thanks for all that, much appreciated.

AuldManKing

Regarding the BAA Plan, I followed the advanced one for a marathon recently and it is a very good plan, not too taxing (relative to other plans) and has a great blend of easy & hard days.
I do think the MLR's can be tough at MP+30 secs - but these runs give you a great wokout.

The 'tempo' runs in the plan aren't at traditional 'tempo pace' but at MP +/- 10 secs - this is good as you can vary it depending on how you are feeling.
Ecoli assures me that these tempo paces are at the top end of the 'Tempo spectrum' so you get the lactate benefit from them (or words to that affect).

For the easy runs - run them easy - theres enough sessions in there to keep it interesting, so run the 'distance' runs very easy - almost treat them as recoveries.

Any questions - feel free to ask.

adrian522

Thanks AMK, I guess by the MLR runs you mean the M-PAce runs?

I'd assume where the plan has MLR 10-12 you would do 10 to 12 miles at an easy pace?

Laois_Man

8 miles @ 9:38

Been so obsessed by the pains in my leg that I haven't been considering much about a plan at all (I mean, c'mon...no pain after a 12 mile LSR on Saturday, or the 3 mile recovery on Sunday, but when I do 20 measly minutes on an exercise bike on Monday, the pain is back a little bit).

These last 2 pages are making me wake up. I'm gonna have to get the finger out and get studying all those plans more and nail my colors to a mast. If it's an 18 week plan that I am not ahead of already, it should start next Monday

On the other hand, I have been saying I need another year of buildup and I probably wouldn't do the marathon this year unless things happened to fall into place.....Am I getting sucked in? :eek:

AK333

Ososlo wrote: »

.... Will everyone following the Boards plan be up to 5 days a week by the start of the plan and those following HH up to 4 days per week?
Also the longer runs will be up to 8 miles for Boards Plan and 6 miles for HH for the first week so bear that in mind too. You don't want the first week of the plan being too big an increase so step it up gradually.

Happy training:D

Okay, so now I'm confused. I was looking at doing the Boards plan. I'm currently running 15-20 miles a week, with a long run btw 6 and 8 mile each weekend, but not sure I can commit, at the moment, to 5 days a week training, doing 4 at the moment so looked at the HH novice but I'm doing more miles than that now and think I'll need the longer lsr's, so then looked at the HH intermediate but think that's a bit like the Boards plan, without the tweaking. I'm a slow plodderer, my MPM won't be much quicker than my normal easy runs, but I think the HH novice will be too little for me. Now I'm really confused. Any ideas?

Ososlo

AK333 wrote: »

Okay, so now I'm confused. I was looking at doing the Boards plan. I'm currently running 15-20 miles a week, with a long run btw 6 and 8 mile each weekend, but not sure I can commit, at the moment, to 5 days a week training, doing 4 at the moment so looked at the HH novice but I'm doing more miles than that now and think I'll need the longer lsr's, so then looked at the HH intermediate but think that's a bit like the Boards plan, without the tweaking. I'm a slow plodderer, my MPM won't be much quicker than my normal easy runs, but I think the HH novice will be too little for me. Now I'm really confused. Any ideas?

Hey! I think you should stick with the boards plan and do the extra day to make it 5 days whenever you can. A lot of those runs are very short so I'm sure you could find the tine to do them some weeks but it'd be no big deal to miss the odd short run some weeks. Don't miss the Wednesday one but the Thursday or Friday ones aren't quite as important.
By the way, no matter how slow you are, the majority of your runs should be a lot slower than your marathon pace runs. Don't be running at marathon pace unless it's a pace run.
I think you'd be well able for the boards plan. Nice consistency and lsr you have there at the moment.

Laois_Man

AK333 wrote: »

Okay, so now I'm confused. I was looking at doing the Boards plan. I'm currently running 15-20 miles a week, with a long run btw 6 and 8 mile each weekend, but not sure I can commit, at the moment, to 5 days a week training, doing 4 at the moment so looked at the HH novice but I'm doing more miles than that now and think I'll need the longer lsr's, so then looked at the HH intermediate but think that's a bit like the Boards plan, without the tweaking. I'm a slow plodderer, my MPM won't be much quicker than my normal easy runs, but I think the HH novice will be too little for me. Now I'm really confused. Any ideas?

Would you consider a hybrid version of the HHN1 plan. A similar structure but the LSRs longer. Maybe the weekday runs from HHN1 and then the weekend LSRs matching the Boards plan?

YourPaceOrMine

Ososlo wrote: »

ha ha we don't want a divorce on our hands:D Best play it safe;)
Wow that's great mileage to be up to on the lsr! Don't go too much higher for the moment I'd say and make sure you drop it back a bit every 3/4 weeks as per Hal's plan.
Yes absolutely adjust the long runs to suit yourself. If you need any advice on any of the particular weeks someone will be able to help you out here. The more long runs the better for sure!

I won't do anymore than 15 for a few weeks, the last mile yesterday was very painful! I won't be going beyond that until I can finish it in good shape.
Maybe a silly question but does the days you run make any difference? Or will I be ok as long as I hit the miles per week. I can't do my long run at the weekend so my plans are

Monday - rest
Tuesday - lsr
Wed - 3m recovery
Thurs - rest
Friday - 6+ miles
Saturday - 6+ miles
Sunday - rest