DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

YourPaceOrMine wrote: »

I won't do anymore than 15 for a few weeks, the last mile yesterday was very painful! I won't be going beyond that until I can finish it in good shape.
Maybe a silly question but does the days you run make any difference? Or will I be ok as long as I hit the miles per week. I can't do my long run at the weekend so my plans are

Monday - rest
Tuesday - lsr
Wed - 3m recovery
Thurs - rest
Friday - 6+ miles
Saturday - 6+ miles
Sunday - rest

Yeah if you're finding the 15 tough, no harm to drop it back and a bit and work it up again. You're way ahead of the lsr so just take it easy and try to make sure the end of the run isn't painful so pace yourself well (run slowly!) so you have plenty left in the tank.
Not a silly question but no it doesn't matter what days of the week you run different runs. You have the above well spaced out. General rule is run easy the day before and after a long slow run which you've factored in above.

AK333

Laois_Man wrote: »

Would you consider a hybrid version of the HHN1 plan. A similar structure but the LSRs longer. Maybe the weekday runs from HHN1 and then the weekend LSRs matching the Boards plan?

I just did a long reply to this and lost the lot grrrrrr

Anyway, I had looked at the HH novice and just looked at it again but I'm actually running more than that plan's week 5/6. I normally do:

Mon - club - I'm doing more laps before training to build up my miles and then we do speed work (its all relative ) and stretches.
Tues/Thur - depending on time/weather I do btw 3 / 5 miles
Wed - longer run, depending on company/route/weather btw 5/6 miles
Fri - rest
Sat - lsr - depending on company etc, between 6 / 8 miles and as I live in the country and run on country roads, some of the routes I find quite challenging with hills/pot holes/dogs!
Sun - couch! now I could do a recovery run here (recovery from what I hear you say) of say 3 miles or so and that would increase my weekly mileage and I would then have 5 days of running.

I think I could do the Boards plan just don't want to be too ambitious and blow up. What you think?

Ososlo

AK333 wrote: »

I just did a long reply to this and lost the lot grrrrrr

Anyway, I had looked at the HH novice and just looked at it again but I'm actually running more than that plan's week 5/6. I normally do:

Mon - club - I'm doing more laps before training to build up my miles and then we do speed work (its all relative ) and stretches.
Tues/Thur - depending on time/weather I do btw 3 / 5 miles
Wed - longer run, depending on company/route/weather btw 5/6 miles
Fri - rest
Sat - lsr - depending on company etc, between 6 / 8 miles and as I live in the country and run on country roads, some of the routes I find quite challenging with hills/pot holes/dogs!
Sun - couch! now I could do a recovery run here (recovery from what I hear you say) of say 3 miles or so and that would increase my weekly mileage and I would then have 5 days of running.

I think I could do the Boards plan just don't want to be too ambitious and blow up. What you think?

I know your questions is aimed at L_M but I'll give my 2 cent anyways:p.
You're not a complete beginner and you're actually quite a bit more experienced than a lot of novices as you're running around 4 years I think. You also have experience of running with a club. You've done a few half marathons afaicr. You're coming from a good starting point for marathon training with a nice base of running behind you.
Running the Boards Plan is nothing to do with how fast you are, but more how experienced you are. You're not a complete beginner and if you were I'd certainly be directing you to the HH1 plan.
IMO you'd be well able for the Boards Plan. IMO the ideal way to increase your days running/mileage would be to add in the recovery run on the Sunday. Even 30 mins at recovery effort would stand to you and help your legs recovery from previous day's effort. You could even do a run/walk strategy if that helps you recover better and try to run it on grass.
Take all opinions on board of course and if you started the Boards Plan and found it too much you can always revert to another plan or tweak existing plan. No plan is set in stone.

slingerz

Just getting out and moving again after my injury. Only gone 3K twice this week as I dont want to push it and my back still feels below par especially when sitting down at work all day.

Plan is for another 5K tonight, a parkrun Saturday and then a 10K on Sunday.

All of which will be done at 9:30+ pace anyway so nothing pacey in any of them. Have a fear of picking up the pace really when the back doesnt feel 100%

gingersnap

I'm focusing on the Clontarf half for now so haven't a definite plan in place for the marathon but what I'm thinking of doing is this:

Mon: rest
Tue: club training
Wed: recovery run or CT (walk/exercise bike)
Thur: club training
Fri: rest
Sat: LSR
Sun: recovery run

I tried a 13 mile LSR on Saturday and had to walk a bit at the end
I think this was due to the usual novice mistake of running too fast. I should know by now that the clue is in the name and do these much slower

Just wondering for the marathon training if I should drop a club session and replace it with a medium length run?

Darren 83

The club released there training plans and hopefully going to talk to the coach about doing it, it would make it a lot easier on me also would have company as well.

Vico1612

No running for me this week so far ... :-(
Thanks to my kids for sharing their latest virus .... Back on track hopefully this week end

adrian522

Is anyone on Strava that I can stalk follow?

Pacing Mule

adrian522 wrote: »

Is anyone on Strava that I can stalk follow?

http://www.strava.com/clubs/boards-ac-22198

Suggest anyone here on strava join this.

adrian522

Pacing Mule wrote: »

http://www.strava.com/clubs/boards-ac-22198

Suggest anyone here on strava join this.

Yeah, I'm already on that, just trying to figure out who is on the novices thread from there!

Mine is here if anyone is interested

http://www.strava.com/athletes/4618861

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

I'm focusing on the Clontarf half for now so haven't a definite plan in place for the marathon but what I'm thinking of doing is this:

Mon: rest
Tue: club training
Wed: recovery run or CT (walk/exercise bike)
Thur: club training
Fri: rest
Sat: LSR
Sun: recovery run

I tried a 13 mile LSR on Saturday and had to walk a bit at the end
I think this was due to the usual novice mistake of running too fast. I should know by now that the clue is in the name and do these much slower

Just wondering for the marathon training if I should drop a club session and replace it with a medium length run?

Hi gingersnap
What will the club sessions involve closer to DCM? I'm no expert in this area but think that if the club session is something like short interval work then you might be better off doing a medium length run instead. Most marathon plans have medium length runs mid-week for a reason and they're progressive in nature (get longer as the weeks go on) so I think that might serve you better come July, Aug, Sept, Oct. Give us a bit more detail about the club sessions and maybe someone more experienced can give a bit of advice. You could talk to the club coach too about what he/she think would be most beneficial to you.

Pacing Mule

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm already on that, just trying to figure out who is on the novices thread from there!

Mine is here if anyone is interested

http://www.strava.com/athletes/4618861

Your new follower is me. Fell free to stalk away

ciaranmac

I find in the evenings there's always something else important to do besides running, and then it's dark and I'm tired... Problem solved! Today was my first time getting up early for a run before work I've always been a night owl but it wasn't anywhere as hard to get going as I was afraid it would be, and it's set me up for the day.

Now if I'd got up a little earlier, I could have done more than 4k... :rolleyes:

AK333

I much prefer running in the morning when there's not as much traffic about and you're not dodging people on footpaths. Unfortunately, most of the people I run with prefer running after work, so I do most week runs in the evening, which I find harder to motivate myself to do, and the weekend ones/or when I'm off, in the morning, before breakfast and I feel as fresh as a daisy. Not looking forward to my run this evening in that heat

neilthefunkeone

I'm getting most all my weekday runs in on my hour lunch.. i can get 5 miles in, showered and back at my desk to eat my lunch!
This should work up until end of July where ill have to get the longer midweek run after work!

Sorry if this has been asked before but going to test some energy gels on my lsr Saturday.
Going to do 10 miles. Any suggestion on how many over that distance? At what distances should you take them?

Ososlo

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

I'm getting most all my weekday runs in on my hour lunch.. i can get 5 miles in, showered and back at my desk to eat my lunch!
This should work up until end of July where ill have to get the longer midweek run after work!

Sorry if this has been asked before but going to test some energy gels on my lsr Saturday.
Going to do 10 miles. Any suggestion on how many over that distance? At what distances should you take them?

It's a question that has arisen before but we'll be discussing it over and over and over again so don't be apologising for asking:D Same with any other question folks. Keep asking... keep questioning stuff.

You don't need them at all at the moment but I don't think it's any harm to try the odd one at this stage but don't use them on every longer run as you don't want your body to become dependant on them at this early stage.
If you want to try one on the weekend you could try it after half way through. That way, if your stomach isn't handling it well you won't have too far to go to finish the run but you'll see how you do handle it with a few miles to go.

neilthefunkeone

Ososlo wrote: »

If you want to try one on the weekend you could try it after half way through. That way, if your stomach isn't handling it well you won't have too far to go to finish the run but you'll see how you do handle it with a few miles to go.

Thanks for that... Guy in work i run with said he feels terrible after taking them so really just want to give one a go and see how it sits with me. I usually have an Iron stomach anyway!

Skipped the run yesterday in favor of a bit of cycling.. went out and did 50k up to Enniskerry and on up to military road and back! Good leg work on those hills but felt it for the 5 miles i did at lunch.. rest tomorrow so not so bad!

gingersnap

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi gingersnap
What will the club sessions involve closer to DCM? I'm no expert in this area but think that if the club session is something like short interval work then you might be better off doing a medium length run instead. Most marathon plans have medium length runs mid-week for a reason and they're progressive in nature (get longer as the weeks go on) so I think that might serve you better come July, Aug, Sept, Oct. Give us a bit more detail about the club sessions and maybe someone more experienced can give a bit of advice. You could talk to the club coach too about what he/she think would be most beneficial to you.

Thanks Ososlo. This month's club sessions are mainly speedwork but I've been doing a little bit of a run before them which brings the session up to 5-6 miles. I'll talk to the coach about plans for the next few months.
I think I'd feel better if I had a definite plan in place and something to tick off each week so that's my mission over the next couple of weeks

Ososlo

gingersnap wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo. This month's club sessions are mainly speedwork but I've been doing a little bit of a run before them which brings the session up to 5-6 miles. I'll talk to the coach about plans for the next few months.
I think I'd feel better if I had a definite plan in place and something to tick off each week so that's my mission over the next couple of weeks

So you're shopping for a plan at the moment? If you read back the last few pages there are a few mentioned that other novices are doing and then of course there's the Boards one which you could tweak or the Hal plan.
Yes I agree that it makes things easier to be following an actual plan, even if it's one that you've devised yourself based on another plan but tweaked to fit in your club stuff. Let us know what the coach says about sessions over the next few months.

Nicsx

Did 15.1m LSR this morning (& believe me that .1m at the end was probably the toughest) avg pace 10.08.

I spent up to mile 12 mentally writing my post about this- what a beautiful morning, great day to be running, glorious sunshine, found the perfect LSR pace & how I had to keep checking the watch & slowing myself down etc etc. Even the dreaded 'Heartbreak Hill' wasn't going to break me today. And then the 3 mile uphill drag home began..........and the tone of the mental post changed.

Anyway, now, thanks to the amazing healing powers of a cold bath I'm positive once more. I decided to try it to see if I can avoid walking as if I just got off a horse for the rest of the afternoon. We'll see if it works...........

Darren 83

SO had a chat with the club coach on the marathon plan so I will be on the clubs plan, had intervals with the club didn't really know how Id fair out but I managed to stick with the group.

Ososlo

Darren 83 wrote: »

SO had a chat with the club coach on the marathon plan so I will be on the clubs plan, had intervals with the club didn't really know how Id fair out but I managed to stick with the group.

That's great Darren. It'll be nice to have company for the training, especially the longer runs.
Well done on the intervals. You'll be leading the group in no time!

laura_ac3

Tough week this week but enjoyable all the same. Managed to fit in all the runs but was a bit all over the place. Wasn't able to order them as I would like but was fine for a once off this week.

3 mile recovery run late Monday night, Tuesday was rest and football on Wednesday. Ran to work Thursday morning (very very warm!) to do 5 miles. Did my lsr last night of 10 miles. Kept the pace slower than last week - average pace between 11 and 11 and a half minutes per mile. Was focused on getting the distance done as opposed to time, had a tired/sore calf so just wanted to complete it. Was surprised that I was still having to remind myself to keep the pace slow in the second half of the run, thought I'd be much more tired than I was. Enjoyed it actually, lovely evening for a run on clontarf seafront. Then up this morning for an easy 3 miles...having mentioned it earlier this week this thread had to keep me honest thanks especially to Ososlo and ecoli for that!

Weekly mileage was 21 - only a one mile increase on last week but pushed out the lsr by 2 miles from last week.

Best of luck to everyone starting their plans next week. Looking forward to catching up on everyone's progress when I'm back from hols - when I'll be struggling again after my 2 weeks off

Oh and hay fever was a pain this week!!

adrian522

2 Mile warmup, Tymon Parkrun, 2 mile cool down

total 7 miles.

Not too bad, quite enjoyable. The 5Km parkrun was a lot of fun, went out in 7:39 pace for the first mile, 7:39 for the second mile, then kind of developed a stitch and kind of ran out of steam and ended up jogging home in 8:52 pace.

Not as fit as I thought I was obviously, but a fun outing for my first parkrun none the less.

Total 7.46 miles.

JohnDozer

I'm no strava so I'll throw up a link later when I get a chance.

Having a bit of a dilemma. Did a local half marathon today (raced it) and the plan was to start the training plan on Monday next in order to allow three weeks for life stuff that might get in the way after a recovery run tomorrow. Anyway, just checked my emails there to find I had entered a 10 mile on galway next weekend and kinda forgot about it. I thinking I would like to do it so I'm wondering should I keep to week 1 of the plan up to the weekend and then race it, or should I have a week preparing specifically for the 10 mile ie generally easy running with some short race pace stuff and start the plan a week later? I'd imagine I would get similar benefit from both approaches. Thoughts are welcome.

Laois_Man

13.1 mile LSR @ 9:41

I was surprised how much easier this felt than last Saturday's 12 mile LSR. The conditions last Saturday were a lot more difficult than today tho - very hot and windy last Saturday - just nice today. And I was just feeling stronger today. I wish I could identify the reasons why that is.

I again tried to hit the 9 minute mile on mile 11 as I did last Saturday. Just went for it and ignored the watch. Covered it in 8:15 :eek:. But I was royally winded for a minute or two after it.

I recovered quickly after the whole run too. Much better than last week. I was grand after 10 minutes today. Then I brought little Laois_Man (Well, he's really little Carlow_Man :rolleyes:) swimming in Kilkenny Watershed afterwards and I felt all the better for that too. Although I am feeling the old leg a little small bit now.

This very weekend last year I ran a HM race in pretty much the same time as I ran the distance as an LSR today and was in bits after it - an awful experience. Although that HM was on a VERY difficult course, I still feel I have come a long long way in the year despite all the injuries.

Getting a bit carried away with the distances tho. Going from 10 Mile LSR to HM distance in only 3 weeks is dangerous for me. I'll be staying at this distance now for another 3 weeks or so before moving it up again. Happy out though! Think I'll knock back a couple of Jack Daniels while cheering on Italy England tonight!!

Laois_Man

JohnDozer wrote: »

I'm no strava so I'll throw up a link later when I get a chance.

Having a bit of a dilemma. Did a local half marathon today (raced it) and the plan was to start the training plan on Monday next in order to allow three weeks for life stuff that might get in the way after a recovery run tomorrow. Anyway, just checked my emails there to find I had entered a 10 mile on galway next weekend and kinda forgot about it. I thinking I would like to do it so I'm wondering should I keep to week 1 of the plan up to the weekend and then race it, or should I have a week preparing specifically for the 10 mile ie generally easy running with some short race pace stuff and start the plan a week later? I'd imagine I would get similar benefit from both approaches. Thoughts are welcome.

I get a bit mixed up over who's who here - can't recall your intro on this thread. But the fact that you raced a HM today suggests your some distance ahead of the plan and have a little time to play with. I'd prepare with specific training for the 10 mile race. I think 23.1 miles of racing on successive weekends is a bit dangerous for a "novice" though....if you're really a novice. My 2 cents!

JohnDozer

Laois_Man wrote: »

I get a bit mixed up over who's who here - can't recall your intro on this thread. But the fact that you raced a HM today suggests your some distance ahead of the plan and have a little time to play with. I'd prepare with specific training for the 10 mile race. I think 23.1 miles of racing on successive weekends is a bit dangerous for a "novice" though....if you're really a novice. My 2 cents!

Ha ha! Thanks for that... I am genuinely a novice, just one marathon, a handful of halfs and a handful of 10 miles... 3 years running in GAA off season which amounted to 300 - 500 miles for each year. I was actually much faster when I started running first, but the upward curve will hopefully happen this year as it will be my first full year running. When I say raced a half marathon I won't be setting any records!! I do see myself as a novice because I've never followed a plan until now, never done speed work or intervals so I have a lot to learn. Really just been getting out the door knowing I had to do some runs fast, some runs slow, and some runs even slower!! Although slowing down my runs sufficiently is an issue for me and will probably result in fatigue if I don't cop on this time around. You make a good point about successive weekends, which is why I thought knocking the plan on the head and running easy stuff for the week would offer most benefit, and prevent damage being done as much as possible!

adrian522

Jack Daniels recommends taking 1 easy day for every 3k racing. So really after a half marathon you should give yourself a week of only easy runs or recovery runs before getting stuck into any marathon training.

Personally I wouldn't race on consecutive weekends, certainly not HM/10 mile. If you do race it you won't really be doing your self justice, and it will take a further few days before you are ready to start your plan properly.

Dub13

LSR today of 30K (18.64 mi) @ 9:50 min/mi.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/520509384

The pacing was spot on for the lot of it, I normally stick in a few faster KM's in these LSR but did not today and I felt much better at the end and could have went on for a lot longer.It was a perfect day for it, not to hot and overcast with the sun shinning through every so often.

Was a good week, 78k (48.5 miles). I will do a short 5 k recovery in the morning.