DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

JohnDozer

Fair enough! You have me convinced, I'm at nothing until I have a proper max HR. I dont have any 5k's or 10k's planned so that may have to wait. I do stick mainly to pace anyway. Its just having the data available now causes me to wonder. The main benefit I have found with the HR monitor is forcing me to slow down my easy runs a little. For some reason reading a high HR reading has more of an impact than reading a quicker pace off the watch in telling me to slow down.

As regards your PS, I have every intention of it! Once I start doing my intervals in the plan, he wont see me for dust!!!!

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

Ah no. Really sorry to hear that. It's the flat-foot problem?
Did you try seeing someone different (physio etc) to seek another opinion? So it's the feet affecting the legs?

Yeah I have spent a small fortune on 2 different physios.

Gavlor wrote: »

My point was that Laois man shouldn't throw in the towel just because he can currently only manage 3-4 days per week

Not throwing the towel in at all - at least not yet. But I have always said I'll probably need another year of training and I am just seeing what falls into place this year.

Ososlo wrote: »

It sounds like he's having a lot of pain/discomfort between runs though and that would worry me.

Discomfort is a more appropriate word than pain. A year ago, it was pain alright and I missed several weeks in April, then Mid-June to Late-August and then Early December to Early February this year. But now, it only really becomes pain if I attempt to run and so far (touch wood) I seem to get over it in days rather than weeks.

Anyways. I did 7 miles this morning at 9:37 pace
No problem whatsoever with the leg. (Heat was a killer though)
The frustrating thing is, watch me probably hobbling at 11:00pm tonight or in the morning. :mad:
Also, whenever the leg is not sore and I can actually run, I talk myself into running longer while the going is good, trying to compensate somewhat for missed runs. I do wonder am I defeating myself with such an approach. :rolleyes:

adrian522

6.5 easy miles today. Trying to change the running technique is not easy and I often find myself going too fast.

Decided to have a crack at one of the Strava segments at the end of my run. Gave it a good go, came third overall, 30 seconds off the course record though.

JohnDozer

Nice one... Is it a long segment? I'm sure by the end of August you'll be giving the record a good rattle. Although we'll probably all be so worried about doing ourselves an injury by then we wont be attacking any strava segments!

Ososlo

Courtesy of opus over on the A/R Off Topic Thread:
The DOs and DO NOTs of running your first marathon
Don't take it too seriously!!!:)

adrian522

JohnDozer wrote: »

Nice one... Is it a long segment? I'm sure by the end of August you'll be giving the record a good rattle. Although we'll probably all be so worried about doing ourselves an injury by then we wont be attacking any strava segments!

4:08 is the CR, my time was 4:38. I reckon I could take it later in the summer when I'm a bit fitter.

vitani

Has taken me the last two days to catch up with this thread from when I last posted. The past couple of weeks have been insanely busy for me, and so long story short, I'm back to using the Boards plan (which I started yesterday) as I've found that it's the easiest to fit into everything else I have going on. It means dropping the club sessions for the moment, but I'm happy enough to do that.

Dub13

As discussed here the other day I have a hectic weekend so moved my LSR to today as I am off work. Some heat out there this morning, I did 30k on Sat so with the heat etc slowed it right down.

24K @ 10:03 min/mi
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/523272051

statss

adrian522 wrote: »

4:08 is the CR, my time was 4:38. I reckon I could take it later in the summer when I'm a bit fitter.

Saw that on Strava....live nearby....might have to give it a go myself!

adrian522

statss wrote: »

Saw that on Strava....live nearby....might have to give it a go myself!

Yeah, there's only 7 people on the leaderboard, bit of a soft one.

MKDTH

Week 5 all done and dusted with 14 miles run in 120 mins.

I ran in the 5k Malahide Park Run on Saturday in 28.54 which i was pleased with as i had the aim of anything under 30mins.

I made the schoolboy error of going into the chute and trying to stop my app on my phone rather than keeping going to get a token at the end of the chute.

It meant that two people went past me in the chute and i got a time two places lower than i should of!

Really pleased to of done that though, with the next aim being a 5mile race at Clontarf on the 5th of July.

This week is also the start of my full training beginning with a minimum of 3miles on each of my five days per week now.

I had a scare with my knee the next two days after the 5k run with my left knee hurting while on a recovery run on sunday after just one mile, followed by a similar issue after 2.9 miles on Monday.
The good news is that after a rest day on Tuesday, i managed to do a 3 mile run today without any pain.

BuilderBob

Hi fellow DCM noviciates (is that a word??)
It’s taken me four days – admittedly I did take some water breaks – to get from start to finish on this thread.
All incredibly interesting and I was conscious of not a) missing something and b) asking a stupid question later on that someone has already asked.
And I know there is no such thing as a stupid question but there may be if you ask it twice!

What is immediately obvious is that there is an incredible amount of wisdom and advice in here – with a genuine interest to help us beginners and thank you, in advance, to all for that.
It’s already been very informative, if a little bewildering at times and has already put me straight – albeit scaring the bejaysus out of me also, which is no bad thing in advance of what’s to come.
I’ve done one HM and I had read somewhere that a Marathon is not twice as hard….it’s 4 times as hard but these last 61 pages have reinforced the point!
I’d started the C25K about 3 years ago but fell back on the couch. Last November I managed to peel myself off it and have gone from strength to strength since.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K June 2014 – 25.12
10k April 2014 – 53.27
Half Marathon 18th April – 2.02

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do) No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Last week did 5 runs totalling 25miles – that’s about the average for the last few months, certainly since April.
Plan is for 5 runs per week with about the same number of core/stretching sessions

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I’ll be honest. I want to do it in under 4 hours and maybe 4:15 is more realistic but if I’m going to drag my ass around Dublin for 4 hours and it not be a pub crawl, I’d like it to be in style!
I know that my time for the HM wouldn’t indicate the capacity for breaking the 4 hour mark but I made a LOT of rookie errors – went off too quick, didn’t hydrate properly, tried a gel mid race for the 1st time etc – they say confession is good for the soul but can’t believe that I’m making excuses to ye already. Good job not many people bother with this interweb malarkey!

How many days a week can you train? I can certainly do the 5 days running and then other elements that complement the training.

Why are you running this marathon? I’ve looked into my other mid-life crisis options – I cannot afford a sports car or a Harley, neither Mila Kunis or Holly Willoughby are interested in an affair and I wouldn’t settle for anyone else, I can’t afford to quit my job and do something that “feeds my soul”, so that just leaves the “lose weight, look younger and be more energized by cultivating healthier habits" option, Dammit!

Anyway that’s my story – apologies to Ososlo as I know that you have to read it all, at least others can choose to ignore it
I do have a question on diet which I may have missed but I cannot see a detailed response.
I’d be keen to get an idiot’s guide to what to put in my mouth and when…..leave it!
Thanks
BB

Ososlo

BuilderBob wrote: »

Hi fellow DCM noviciates (is that a word??)
It’s taken me four days – admittedly I did take some water breaks – to get from start to finish on this thread.
All incredibly interesting and I was conscious of not a) missing something and b) asking a stupid question later on that someone has already asked.
And I know there is no such thing as a stupid question but there may be if you ask it twice!
Why are you running this marathon? I’ve looked into my other mid-life crisis options – I cannot afford a sports car or a Harley, neither Mila Kunis or Holly Willoughby are interested in an affair and I wouldn’t settle for anyone else, I can’t afford to quit my job and do something that “feeds my soul”, so that just leaves the “lose weight, look younger and be more energized by cultivating healthier habits" option, Dammit!

Anyway that’s my story – apologies to Ososlo as I know that you have to read it all, at least others can choose to ignore it
I do have a question on diet which I may have missed but I cannot see a detailed response.
I’d be keen to get an idiot’s guide to what to put in my mouth and when…..leave it!
Thanks
BB

ha ha great post BuilderBob:D
You're set up nicely there for training. What plan will you follow? Unless Mila or Holly come a knocking that is:D You'll get more long-term satisfaction with marathon training;)
So diet. What specifically do you want to know? I'm vegetarian so can't help out with the meat and fish end of things but here are a few pointers.
Breakfast: You want a slow release carb if you're having breakkie before you head off. Some people like porridge. Some people like a bagel with maybe peanut butter. Some people like a banana or a smoothie. I make a smoothie before a long run and I put in Greek yogurt, chia seeds, maca powder, raw vegan coco powder, fresh oranges and whatever other fruits I have about the house. That along with a bagel would set me up nicely for a long run early in the day.
Lunch and Dinner: Someone else will have to help you out with the meat and fish side of things but I think turkey is good and skinless chicken
A non meat option for lunch would be scrambled eggs and spinach or spanish omelette or salad with avocado etc.
For dinner, perhaps a Dominos extra large 4 cheese pizza with large fries and of course a Diet Coke:D Kidding of course. Meat and 3 veg? Lots of veg anyways. Tofu is good, Quorn is ok for the vegetarians. Any dish with beans and lentils is always a winner vegetarian or not.
Pasta is good the night before a long run in the morning.
Snacks: Nuts and seeds are great especially brazil nuts and pumpkin seeds. Fruit of course. Oat cakes with cottage cheese. Hummus.
Sorry, I'm not an expert on this stuff and I'll need some help with the meat and fish end of things but as you know yourself already I'm sure, cut out the processed stuff, eat fresh natural foods as much as possible, don't overindulge in the 'nice' stuff and be sensible with the 'really nice' stuff i.e alcohol!
And of course hydrate really well with water every day, especially in the hot weather and in the day before a long run.
If you have any specific questions fire ahead and someone might be able to help out. Hope that is of some small help! You did ask for an idiot's guide:D

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Week 5 all done and dusted with 14 miles run in 120 mins.

I ran in the 5k Malahide Park Run on Saturday in 28.54 which i was pleased with as i had the aim of anything under 30mins.
I had a scare with my knee the next two days after the 5k run with my left knee hurting while on a recovery run on sunday after just one mile, followed by a similar issue after 2.9 miles on Monday.
The good news is that after a rest day on Tuesday, i managed to do a 3 mile run today without any pain.

well done on the Parkrun. Nice to see progress like that!
Hope the knee is still ok.

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

As discussed here the other day I have a hectic weekend so moved my LSR to today as I am off work. Some heat out there this morning, I did 30k on Sat so with the heat etc slowed it right down.

24K @ 10:03 min/mi
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/523272051

If you're doing any recovery run tomorrow keep it super slow too.
Well done on the long run today.
Yeah that heat would really knock the stuffing out of one. Even in the early morning and late evening it's still stifling. Good idea to adjust the paces/effort in accordance with the conditions.

ecoli

Generally I tend to go for the following when in hard training and trying to make sure that the nutrition is in order.

Breakfast
-Porridge with mixed seed and fruit toppings (pick bags up in Lidl or Aldi)
-peanut butter on brown toast
-Feta cheese and spinach omelettes
-Smoothie (Natural yoghurt, starwberries, peanut butter and choc flavour protein)
-French toast (brown bread)

Lunch
-Wraps (chicken, mixed peppers and pesto tends to be a favourite)
- Salads - Greek/Tuna

Dinner
-Stir Fry
-Steak and Salad
-Salmon and Pasta

These are just a few things I would go for but are by no means a comprehensive list.

The main advice I would give is small changes. A major overhaul is just going to cause cravings (similar to high GI breakfasts which is why I would tend to opt for a bit more protein for saiety early in the day). Also preparation is the key, if you are stuck for time in mornings prep food the night before and freeze multiple meals for the week if needs be. Quick easy made processed foods is usually where many of us trip up when stuck for time.

Also as Ososlo has said water is very important and with roughly 70% of the Irish adult population constantly dehydrated this is something which can't be stressed enough. The role of hydration on muscle and bodily function is huge.

adrian522

Nice post. I don't think I'm getting by on 3 meals though.

I tend to have porridge+blueberries first thing, then something like a slice of toast+peanut butter at 10.30/11.

Salad or something at lunch and maybe a banana or some nuts in the afternoon, similar enough to the above for dinner, stir fry, meat veg etc.

vitani

My race numbers for the Race Series arrived today - now to find somewhere I won't lose them before each individual race. Do you usually keep the same number for the marathon itself?

4 miles this evening with 5 x 100m strides. I'd lost my Garmin before heading out (it turned out to be in the laundry basket with yesterday's clothes) so I just ran it by feel. I didn't realise how much I tend to rely on the watch usually - not having a pace to focus on made the start of the run more difficult as there were no distractions. By the end, it felt great though.

Ososlo

vitani wrote: »

My race numbers for the Race Series arrived today - now to find somewhere I won't lose them before each individual race. Do you usually keep the same number for the marathon itself?

4 miles this evening with 5 x 100m strides. I'd lost my Garmin before heading out (it turned out to be in the laundry basket with yesterday's clothes) so I just ran it by feel. I didn't realise how much I tend to rely on the watch usually - not having a pace to focus on made the start of the run more difficult as there were no distractions. By the end, it felt great though.

yep same number for the big one vitani. It was last year anyway.
Good luck following the plan!

Dub13

Ososlo wrote: »

If you're doing any recovery run tomorrow keep it super slow too.
Well done on the long run today.
Yeah that heat would really knock the stuffing out of one. Even in the early morning and late evening it's still stifling. Good idea to adjust the paces/effort in accordance with the conditions.

Yes will do a 5k/7k tomorrow and keep it slow. It was also my first long run with a new pair of runners the kids got me for fathers day, no problem's to report with them.

vitani wrote: »

My race numbers for the Race Series arrived today.

Mine came today as well, looking forward to getting stuck into it now.

JMSE

thats my last run tonight until Sat when I'm hoping to run in a 10k, so for the last seven days I've run at least 19 miles, thats maybe 1 or 2 up on last week I think. Ran 9.5miles slow Saturday, and then over Mon Tues Wed I did 30/40/30 min runs all at easy pace, maybe a little faster Monday. I find tonight on day 3 of 3, my pace is as fast as it could be and thats a sore plod, feels like 26 miles wud be bloody impossible. But I hope like last week that the 2 rest days I'm gonna give my achy shins will leave me in good form for Saturday evenings 10k....

tiegan

All I can say is WOW - have been a mostly lurking boardsie for a few years now - took up running last year and ran my first 15k last Sunday and am planning on running my first half in August. That was it, until I stumbled across this wonderful thread. Am I able to train for my first marathon the DCM this year?? Well with your help I will give it a go! Cannot believe the amount of detail and info that has gone into producing this thread for novices, absolutley blown away by it. So here goes:-

Have you raced before? Yes
If so what are your PBs? 5k 13/6/14 - 24.47 10k 20/4/14 - 52.30 15k 15/6/14 1:27.48
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No
How much training do you currently do ? Depends 4 or 5 running sessions. 3 days TRX cross training sessions. Usually run 4 or 6 miles each session.
What do you want to achieve. Just finish. Suppose 4.30 at worst would be nice, anything else is a bonus.
How many days a week can you train? Every day if I wanted to
Why are you running this marathon? Because I found this thread to encourage me!!

Also just wondering does anyone have the link to boards discussion about blisters which I am currently suffer after the 15k. The link on the first page of this thread is not working. Thanks in advance from the tips of my toes!!

Ososlo

^^^^^ I'll fix that link this evening tiegan when on the laptop. Sorry about that. Welcome to the madness!!!!

BuilderBob

Ososlo wrote: »

ha ha great post BuilderBob:D

Thank you

Ososlo wrote: »

What plan will you follow? Unless Mila or Holly come a knocking that is:D You'll get more long-term satisfaction with marathon training;)

You raise a highly pertinent and valid question.
One that I hadn't considered heretofore..............what if Mila or Holly change their minds AND/OR I win the Lotto between now and October??
No, I've given you my word. They'll have to wait until November.
I was going to say something refering to my fitness levels come November and long-term satisfaction but I'll let it slide - I know this is not that kind of forum
I do have a plan that's based, I believe, on the Asics plan. How best to share it with you? I'm not a complete dunce in how to do so but I did have to Google "How to reply with multiple quotes on Boards.ie"!

Huge thanks to you, Ecoli and Adrian for the dietary advice.
I did ask for an idiots guide but you overestimated me:) - and perhaps I'm over thinking it - but I was wondering if there is a plan that works not unlike Adrian's example, but with a day by day COMPLETE idiot's guide?
Additionally suggested supplements?
Although as a Veggie aren't you supposed to be wan, scrawny weakling certainly not capable of running a marathon of all things!!??:D

Is it alright to go ahead and join your Strava group? - only have old 2nd hand Garmin with footpod.

I see that I'm not alone in receiving the numbers yesterday - was I the only one whose stomach churned at the thought of it? Same feeling when signing up, looking at plan and, funnily enough, putting up 1st post yesterday.
Thanks again
BB

Ososlo

^^^^^^^
BB. NOBODY calls me a weakling and gets away with it
We'll deal with that later

Maybe we should start with what you're currently eating and review it. Give us a typical day?
I posted a question over on the nutrition and diet forum recently about my diet and got some really helpful advice and suggestions so that might be an option for you. Somebody might put together an eating plan for you. They are very helpful folks over there
Ecoli put some great suggestions on his post. Could you try some of those suggestions?

Firedance

JMSE wrote: »

But I hope like last week that the 2 rest days I'm gonna give my achy shins will leave me in good form for Saturday evenings 10k....

possibly the same 10K I'm hoping to do JMSE :-) I've been quiet over the last week or so because my foot is still not right, went to physio last wednesday and she felt it could be a couple of things, one of her concerns is a stress fracture and from what I can glean the only way to know that for sure is an MRI which is about €300 plus GP fee for referral letter. I have been icing it after each run (nothing overly strenuous) and it has improved considerably. I'm going to attempt the 10k on Saturday eve (I'm able to run on my foot, its after the running that was causing the most pain ie next day), if the foot is sore the next day I'm going to hang up my runners for 4-6 weeks as recommended for SF's and that will be the end of my DCM journey for this year. Am really hoping that won't be the case though.

BuilderBob

Ososlo wrote: »

^^^^^^^
BB. NOBODY calls me a weakling and gets away with it
We'll deal with that later

Duly noted:)

[/QUOTE]Ecoli put some great suggestions on his post. Could you try some of those suggestions?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely - I hope it didn't come across like I was ignoring it. What I'm thinking is to combine Ecoli's plan and add a food diary to my training log. Then I'll have a basis to sneak into the forum you mention Ososlo.
Are there supplements that should be added?
Sorry to hijack thread with diet questions.

Well impressed with Dub13's levels - leaves no doubt as to where I need to get to:eek:
Good luck to the 10kers this weekend
Thanks
BB

Ososlo

BuilderBob wrote: »

Absolutely - I hope it didn't come across like I was ignoring it. What I'm thinking is to combine Ecoli's plan and add a food diary to my training log. Then I'll have a basis to sneak into the forum you mention Ososlo.
Are there supplements that should be added?
Sorry to hijack thread with diet questions.

Well impressed with Dub13's levels - leaves no doubt as to where I need to get to:eek:
Good luck to the 10kers this weekend
Thanks
BB

No problem, you can ask whatever you want.
You don't need supplements really if you can get the diet right. If you feel you might be lacking in something then it's no harm to get some blood tests done and hopefully if you're low in anything it'll show up. You should be able to get all the vitamins you need from actual food. I really think it'd be a good idea to post your query on that forum I mentioned. There are some very knowledgeable people there who'd be delighted to help you out I'm sure or recommend some websites.
I'm intrigued as to what you currently eat
Also, you shouldn't be comparing yourself to any other runner on the thread. There are so many variables between different runners, it's a fruitless exercise. You just worry about BuilderBob!:)

Ososlo

tiegan wrote: »

Also just wondering does anyone have the link to boards discussion about blisters which I am currently suffer after the 15k. The link on the first page of this thread is not working. Thanks in advance from the tips of my toes!!

Blisters thread for you tiegan. Hope it works now.

KillianByrne

While I'm not an expert, I'll do my best to answer any specific food/nutrition queries Builder Bob. ecoli's suggestions are all excellent. Bear with me though, connection from here is currently occasional.

But as Ososlo has indicated, nutrition thread is stuffed with knowledgable people.