DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

JMSE wrote: »

best of luck to one and all as the programs start officially

did the dunshaughlin 10k last night and pulled it off in just over 47mins, only my 2nd one but an improvement of nearly 5mins, not near as stiff as I've been after my other few races that I've done but a new niggle (adductor) in one leg and maybe extensor down on the opposite side - yes I googled 'anatomy of leg muscles' to do my own diagnosing. Should be both cleared up in a day or two so hopefully by Tues I can get out there and train.

Well done on a superb pb! Listen to menoscemo on the recovery run. He knows what he's talking about. I'm a great believer in them myself. On trail or grass if possible.

Firedance wrote: »

well done on your PB JMSE, it was a hot and hillyish(!) race, I went out waaay to fast at the start and paid for it later on but still got a PB 55.30, The foot was not bad yesterday, still niggling at me but no where near as sore so am going to keep icing it and hopefully its just a niggle in the end. Lunchtime run planned for today at a nice slow pace.

Mind that foot and big congrats on the shiny new pb:D If it's still sore after today maybe consider a few days of rest.

AK333

Laois_Man wrote: »

By the way, if you're near Tipperary or willing to travel there, the Boston Scientific Half Marathon in Clonmel actually fits in perfectly with HHN1 and is closer to the timelines of other plans also. Just food for thought!

I'll be doing this one as its a local one for me.

Dub13

Day 1. 6 to 8 mile, with 1 x 5,000m in the middle at marathon pace

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/527141949

11.5 k 8:58 min/mi
I did this in the heat at lunch time as it suited. MP for me is not yet decided but going with 5:30 per KM for now, so the pace here was good if a little fast but I have a 5 mile race on Sat so this is my only speed session of the week.

Splits
1 5:27.2
2 5:44.2
3 5:44.0
4 5:25.7
5 5:28.1
6 5:19.3
7 5:15.6
8 5:26.0
9 5:53.7
10 5:42.6
11 5:46.4
12 2:47.5

Nicsx

Easy 3.5 done this evening. I'm still working on slowing down but I think I'm getting better at it.
Google doc filled in (with the .5 of course!) :-)

bucketybuck

Can I play along? :pac:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I did my first 10k in Enniskillen two weeks ago, finished in 56.23 which I was delighted with. I have never been a runner, but since deciding to try a marathon months back I have been doing 5k runs to get up to some basic sort of standard. My average 5k is around 26.30.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?

Hard to answer because I haven't started the long runs yet, but I'm not planning on walking breaks. I don't take them in the 5k's, did pause for a bit the first time I did 7k and didn't walk at any time in the 10k.

How much training do you currently do ?

For the last few months I have just been ticking over, knowing that my four months of hard training was on the horizon. I would generally do a run 2/3 times a week usually a 5k run, then I do climbing on 2 other days.

What do you want to achieve?

Its all about finishing for me. As I say, I have no history of long distance running. I played GAA and was always a sprinter, all speed and no stamina, and I also have a torrid history of muscle injuries. I want to finish, and I want to run it all. If I had to set a time it would be 4h30min, I would be delighted with that.

How many days a week can you train?

I'm going to follow the Higdon novice plan, and I will follow it all.

Why are you running this marathon?

I have been thinking ahead to this since last year, its now a personal challenge for me and everything else is going on hold. I don't find running easy, but I want to be able to say that I did it.

adrian522

I won't be starting a plan this week, either next week or the week after. It's a 16 week plan so that should be Ok.

I struggled through 12 very tough miles on Saturday, then did nothing yesterday, back out for 6 or so miles this evening. Was ok, struggled a bit to start but the last few miles were enjoyable enough.

EDIT: And look at that, 500 miles for the year.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

I won't be starting a plan this week, either next week or the week after. It's a 16 week plan so that should be Ok.

I struggled through 12 very tough miles on Saturday, then did nothing yesterday, back out for 6 or so miles this evening. Was ok, struggled a bit to start but the last few miles were enjoyable enough.

EDIT: And look at that, 500 miles for the year.

Why were you struggling adrian on Saturday? Was it the heat?
Great mileage for the year! You'll hit 1,000 for the year no problem:D

adrian522

Ososlo wrote: »

Why were you struggling adrian on Saturday? Was it the heat?
Great mileage for the year! You'll hit 1,000 for the year no problem:D

I guess I hadn't done a long run in such a long time and I'm trying to run in the way recommended by the physio which takes more out of me and I find myself going back to old habits later in the run.

Mainly it was not having done any long runs in quite a while. Glad to get it done though.

Dub13

adrian522 wrote: »

EDIT: And look at that, 500 miles for the year.

Snap, well nearly. I am down as 483 on my Garmin but only started to use the watch in mid Jan. I would also have maybe 50 mile done on thread mills.

JMSE

Did that recovery run today, 37 mins slow, down around a dog free cahir co.tipp. Wud reckon it was close to 6k. Lookin at 8hrs sleep tonite, whats seldom is wonderful. Thanks for the advice folks on the recovery run.

vitani

2.4 very easy recovery miles for me following yesterday's LSR. Going to follow the plan as outlined for Week 1 this week, but take Thursday at a recovery pace, and then do the 5 mile race on Saturday with at least a 1 mile w/u and c/d. I don't think I'm on track for a PB on Saturday - the end of that route in the Phoenix Park is my racing nemesis - but I'll give it my best shot. Sorry everyone, but I'm also crossing my fingers for rain on Saturday.

jtceltic

Ososlo wrote: »

what plan will you be following? Be very careful jumping back in and take it very gradually. What were you doing training-wise before the 6 weeks off?
Oh and congratulations btw:D

was doing 4/5 miles 4 times a week. gonna ease into it. Doing the boards plan!

Ososlo

jtceltic wrote: »

was doing 4/5 miles 4 times a week. gonna ease into it. Doing the boards plan!

Did you do no running at all for those 6 weeks? Any other sports?

jtceltic

Ososlo wrote: »

Did you do no running at all for those 6 weeks? Any other sports?

couple of games of 5 a side, done one run of 5 miles 3 weeks back and felt fine after it. Would you recommend I take it very slow for a few weeks?

Ososlo

ChadHogan wrote: »

Good luck to everyone starting the plan this week.

I've had a bit of a set back in the last week. Suspected hamstring tear playing tag rugby. I'll find out tonight what the prognosis is when I meet the physio. I'm very disappointed but better it happen now than August or September.

I was up to 13 miles on the LSR so if I can jump back on the plan in a few weeks I still have a chance of making the start line.

Tag seems to bring with it a lot of injuries from what I see around me with colleagues playing it. If it were me I'd consider giving it a miss once back to serious training for DCM. You can go back to it for the winter then. Don't mean to be a spoilsport but I don't think it's a great compliment to running.
Let us know what happens with physio.

Dub13

Laois_Man wrote: »

Is anyone else of the view that the official Dublin HM is too close to marathon day - It may be good for someone who has run a few marathons but is it a bit close for a novice? It's September 20th...end of week 13....which is only 2 weeks before taper starts.

I have been thinking about this as well, is it to close to the big day to race full steam..?

Ososlo

jtceltic wrote: »

couple of games of 5 a side, done one run of 5 miles 3 weeks back and felt fine after it. Would you recommend I take it very slow for a few weeks?

Oh god yes do. And don't just jump into week one and do all the runs. That's way too much seeing as you've been away from it for 6 weeks. To go from zero miles to 20 would be a recipe for injury.
Maybe run every second day for the first week and don't concern yourself with pace at all and increase a little each week. Just take it really handy. Leave out any kind of pacework for the next few weeks and maybe cut the lsr a bit.
What was your longest lsr before you took the break? How long (how many years) are you running again? Sorry if you've said before but I can't find your introductory post.

jtceltic

Ososlo wrote: »

Oh god yes do. And don't just jump into week one and do all the runs. That's way too much seeing as you've been away from it for 6 weeks. To go from zero miles to 20 would be a recipe for injury.
Maybe run every second day for the first week and don't concern yourself with pace at all and increase a little each week. Just take it really handy. Leave out any kind of pacework for the next few weeks and maybe cut the lsr a bit.
What was your longest lsr before you took the break? How long (how many years) are you running again? Sorry if you've said before but I can't find your introductory post.

Sorry i thought i posted the introductory last night but never posted illl do it later! Running about two years on and off, have never followed a plan, Ran some 10km and the Kildare half last year. Never really done a lsr before,
If i went easy for 2/3 weeks would I have to start the plan from scratch then?

Ososlo

jtceltic wrote: »

Sorry i thought i posted the introductory last night but never posted illl do it later! Running about two years on and off, have never followed a plan, Ran some 10km and the Kildare half last year. Never really done a lsr before,
If i went easy for 2/3 weeks would I have to start the plan from scratch then?

Yeah I think we need a bit more detail about your running past specifically we need to know how consistently you have been running from when you started and especially for the past few months?
How many times a week and how many miles a week.
If you could fill out the introductory questions too that would be great.

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

I have been thinking about this as well, is it to close to the big day to race full steam..?

Lots and lots of novices ran it last year (and in previous years) and raced it properly as a half marathon and I don't remember any big problems. It's fitted into the Race Series specifically for those doing DCM.
If you taper properly in the lead up and run easy for a good few days after it you should be ok to slot back into the training plan.

However, there's on problem picking one a bit earlier like Laois_Man suggested if you feel that would suit you better.

bucketybuck

Ososlo wrote: »

Tag seems to bring with it a lot of injuries from what I see around me with colleagues playing it. If it were me I'd consider giving it a miss once back to serious training for DCM. You can go back to it for the winter then. Don't mean to be a spoilsport but I don't think it's a great compliment to running.
Let us know what happens with physio.

I'd second this, tried tag rugby a few months back and did my hamstring after just three games. I'm susceptible to hamstring injuries anyway, but Tag rugby has a lot of sideways jinking movements and bursts of sprinting that you really need to be careful about.

jtceltic

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? Kildare half in 2013 - 2hr 4 mins, Run in the Dark 10 km 50 mins
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No
How much training do you currently do ? was at 4/5 days a week
What do you want to achieve? 4.5 - 5 hours
How many days a week can you train? as many as needs
Why are you running this marathon? turned 30 and was always a goal of mine so why not

Up to a couple of months back I could go out and run 10 km 3 nights in a row and then not be able for a week, have never followed a routine which I know I need to!

Ososlo

Hal Plan - FYI:
Hi guys, someone has changed the whole Hal plan on the spreadsheet
I don't have time to fix it tonight but please note that the next 3 days have runs of 3 miles here's a link to the plan

menoscemo

Ososlo wrote: »

Hal Plan - FYI:
Hi guys, someone has changed the whole Hal plan on the spreadsheet
I don't have time to fix it tonight but please note that the next 3 days have runs of 3 miles here's a link to the plan

JohnDozer

Nice 4 mile easy this evening to get started. Ran easy all last week and left it late to decide whether to run the Galway Simon 10 miler yesterday. Had a hotel booked so travelled up anyway, felt good and relaxed Saturday so decided to go ahead. Spent Saturday night thinking how to approach it so set a dream goal of 1:18 but would take 1:21ish as I knew it would more than likely be hot and not ideal for running. Up Sunday morning and still feeling good so got ready and headed for the start. Decided to head out at 8 minute mile pace and see how I felt after two miles. Felt very very warm but got water on board, which was in great supply! Settled nicely into a pace of 7:50 which I knew would take me home on schedule for the dream time if I could hold it, which I had doubts about after my last attempt to do similar in Castleisland. As the race progressed I was holding on fine and didn't feel under too much pressure and was starting to look forward to exceeding all my expectations, getting very excited at the prospect and planning all the ways I was going to celebrate! Over the last couple of miles it slowly started to dawn on me that I had failed to take into account that the course had 4 loops in it that required turning a 180 degree turn each time, which threw the garmin out by a good bit. I only spotted one mile marker all day, the 7 mile one, but that was seen on the first mile. They may well have been there. As I got closer to the finish line I realised the garmin was about 0.3 of a mile out (passed 10 miles at about 1:17) and that my time would now not be as worthy of the epic celebrations planned!! Crossed the finish line with 1:19:05 on the garmin. After some initial disappointment, I took solace in the fact that it's still the quickest of 4 10 mile races I have done this year by about 30 seconds. Finished 42nd of 270 odd finishers so I'm very very happy with that. The initial disappointment is now a distant memory and replaced by positive, satisfied thoughts. All I need to do now is find another 10 mile soon to attack that dream time again (without upsetting the plan too much of course!) I feel confident now starting the plan that as long as I learn to slow down my easy runs that I might remain injury and fatigue free and possibly do myself justice in October. The last two weekends have been a great confidence booster, but I've never tackled a plan properly before and seen it through to the end but I'm hopeful the good people of Boards.ie will keep me honest and focussed. And I hope to repay that by helping any way I can!

A question I do have is how best to calculate what your pace should be for the BAA plan. Two runs this coming week have sections at Marathon pace. Is this current predicted marathon pace according to McMillan or is it the planned marathon pace? Or is there a better way of calculating it?

ChadHogan

Ososlo wrote: »

Tag seems to bring with it a lot of injuries from what I see around me with colleagues playing it. If it were me I'd consider giving it a miss once back to serious training for DCM. You can go back to it for the winter then. Don't mean to be a spoilsport but I don't think it's a great compliment to running.
Let us know what happens with physio.

Didnt get to the physio this evening due to work so have rescheduled for tomorrow. Have to say I agree completely with the above. i'm finished with tag for this year at least.

In hindsight I wanted to have my cake and eat it. My sporting background is rugby, having given up only last year so I assumed I could play tag without any issues. However when I was playing rugby I had never run 25-30 miles in the week before a game or heavy training session. Lesson learned.

Great to see plenty of enthusiasm around here now that the serious business is starting. Hopefully I'll be back running along with everyone soon.

Ososlo

jtceltic wrote: »

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? Kildare half in 2013 - 2hr 4 mins, Run in the Dark 10 km 50 mins
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? No
How much training do you currently do ? was at 4/5 days a week
What do you want to achieve? 4.5 - 5 hours
How many days a week can you train? as many as needs
Why are you running this marathon? turned 30 and was always a goal of mine so why not

Up to a couple of months back I could go out and run 10 km 3 nights in a row and then not be able for a week, have never followed a routine which I know I need to!

ok so you need to gradually get back to where you were before the 6 week layoff. So slow and gradual is the only way to go for the next few weeks. Would you consider the Hal Novice 1 Plan? The mileage is lower and all the runs are done at an easy pace so would be less taxing for you rather than playing catch up with the Boards Plan? Have a think.
You could do for instance 2 runs of 3 miles each this week and maybe 4 or 5 at the weekend and see how you get on. It's really hard for me to advise you on this as I don't know how you'll handle it because of the layoff.
This week you could try:
Tuesday: 3
Thursday: 3
Saturday: 4-5
See how you get on and take it from there for next week. Whatever you do, don't just jump fully into the Boards Plan. It really would be too much, no matter how slowly you run. 6 weeks is a considerable amount of time off so you need to take it extra easy on the miles and the pace.
Make sure to read post 2 on the thread about pacing. You have to run easy most of the time.

Ososlo

ChadHogan wrote: »

Didnt get to the physio this evening due to work so have rescheduled for tomorrow. Have to say I agree completely with the above. i'm finished with tag for this year at least.

In hindsight I wanted to have my cake and eat it. My sporting background is rugby, having given up only last year so I assumed I could play tag without any issues. However when I was playing rugby I had never run 25-30 miles in the week before a game or heavy training session. Lesson learned.

Great to see plenty of enthusiasm around here now that the serious business is starting. Hopefully I'll be back running along with everyone soon.

Great Good luck with physio tomorrow.

jtceltic

Ososlo wrote: »

ok so you need to gradually get back to where you were before the 6 week layoff. So slow and gradual is the only way to go for the next few weeks. Would you consider the Hal Novice 1 Plan? The mileage is lower and all the runs are done at an easy pace so would be less taxing for you rather than playing catch up with the Boards Plan? Have a think.
You could do for instance 2 runs of 3 miles each this week and maybe 4 or 5 at the weekend and see how you get on. It's really hard for me to advise you on this as I don't know how you'll handle it because of the layoff.
This week you could try:
Tuesday: 3
Thursday: 3
Saturday: 4-5
See how you get on and take it from there for next week. Whatever you do, don't just jump fully into the Boards Plan. It really would be too much, no matter how slowly you run. 6 weeks is a considerable amount of time off so you need to take it extra easy on the miles and the pace.
Make sure to read post 2 on the thread about pacing. You have to run easy most of the time.

super, thanks, really appreciate the advice, Ill look at the Hal novice plan

gingersnap

Did 7 miles this evening, struggled a bit with the heat at the end and the little sprinkle of rain was great!
I'm still "planless" in terms of DCM training. This week I'm busy with work and family commitments so I'll probably only get a couple of 3 milers in and no LSR.
Next week I'll be taking it a bit easy before the Clontarf half and then I'm away on holidays for a week.
I'll have to knuckle down after that. Three months training will be grand. Hopefully