DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

JohnDozer wrote: »

A question I do have is how best to calculate what your pace should be for the BAA plan. Two runs this coming week have sections at Marathon pace. Is this current predicted marathon pace according to McMillan or is it the planned marathon pace? Or is there a better way of calculating it?

Well done with the race! Great time!

I'll leave your pacing question to my glamorous assistant AMK as he's more au fait with the plan you're following.

In the Boards Plan, the MP is run to current marathon pace - so the pace as predicted by McMillan currently (going on a recent race) or if not using a watch then a steady pace that would be a bit harder than usual easy pace but a pace that would be very sustainable for a few hours of running.

AK333

As I run with a Club on Mondays, I had to tweak the Boards Plan. My coach recommended that I do the Wednesday sessions with the Club on Monday, but I'll be doing extra. So today, I did a few extra laps at the beginning of the session, and whilst they were doing the static stretches I did a few more laps at the end. I did 4 mile at a reasonable pace and some sprints. Its a work in progress, I'll have to plan it better next week, but my coach is on board and supportive so it should work out okay. Tomorrow I will do a rec run and wed and Thursday are the easy runs.

Laois_Man

Dub13 wrote: »

I have been thinking about this as well, is it to close to the big day to race full steam..?

If I remember right, you're following BAA Intermediate, yeah?
That plan has a HM on week 6...which is the week of August 11th on the 16-week plans. Rock & Roll Half-Marathon is on August Bank Holiday Monday (August 4th). A near perfect fit for you.

ciaranmac

Ososlo wrote: »

Very busy around these parts today! Anyone opt for the short recovery pace run instead of rest?



Sorry to hear about the race but good call giving it a miss. Could have been disastrous.

Pacing: Have a read of this thread on some tips to slow down.
I guess running very slowly must be a special skill as some of us have no problems with it at all:) I think I'm a bit faster than you (in races) but can easily run over 11 min/miles for recovery runs. Are your legs very long?
Whatever you do, ensure you're maintaining good running form (see post on good running form on post one of thread).
I wouldn't opt for a run/walk strategy.
Do you run with music? If so maybe try without it.
Did you feel very comfortable during yesterday's lsr? Could you chat and run easily enough?

Thanks for that Ososlo, I hadn't seen that thread. I think most people race faster than me so I probably need to find more gears! I went out again this evening and focussed on running more slowly than I was used to. After a few miles when I came to a long hill that might have forced me to a walk, I felt myself naturally click into a different running form - hard to describe but it was as if my lower legs relaxed and let my quads do all the work. I kept that going for most of the rest of the run. 4 miles at 11 minute pace with no walking breaks seems a good way to start off the plan

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/362032089/6891640

Rather than music yesterday and today I listened to a language course and I repeated phrases from it. No problem with being able to talk while running at the pace I was going, but I'm sure my pronunciation wasn't the best...

Dub13

Laois_Man wrote: »

If I remember right, you're following BAA Intermediate, yeah?
That plan has a HM on week 6...which is the week of August 11th on the 16-week plans. Rock & Roll Half-Marathon is on August Bank Holiday Monday (August 4th). A near perfect fit for you.

Yes I am doing the BAA Intermediate, I think this rock in roll half is way over priced especially for someone like me who is not into music. But if the timing is right I may bite the bullet, Cheers for the suggestion.

BuilderBob

jtceltic wrote: »

Day 1! first time out in 6 weeks after the wife had baby! good luck to everyone

Congratulations JTCeltic - Havin to do the training will be a great excuse reason for getting out of the house

The cycling is a nice compliment to your running fitness. As for Bootcamp exercises, what kind of exercises would they be? I'm not familiar with them at all.

I got waaay too cocky with the rest day! Should you be considering Bootcamp type excercises as a form of excercise for a rest day the best advice is ........ Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Who knew that the Boot in Bootcamp is actually short for Booting it around a sports hall that could double for a sweatbox in one of those Prisoner Of War movies? - I'm assuming that everyone knew, bar me!
Your rope videos Ososlo, while having far too many sado-masochistic undertones for my liking, are a far more genteel and reasonable form of excercise.
I'm aching in places that I didn't even know were classed as muscle groups.
TG to get back to the running today - rest days might become a nightmare if I'm not careful!
I'm off to get a straw for my coffee as can't lift cup

adrian522

Is there anywhere around the Phoenix park I could leave a bag while I go running? I've got Jury service down in Parkgate street and would be good to get some runs down in the park.

I'm not a fan of running with my bag on my back but I guess I could do that if it comes to it.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Is there anywhere around the Phoenix park I could leave a bag while I go running? I've got Jury service down in Parkgate street and would be good to get some runs down in the park.

I'm not a fan of running with my bag on my back but I guess I could do that if it comes to it.

Nope not that I'm aware of but would be wonderful if there was!

Ososlo

BuilderBob wrote: »

Congratulations JTCeltic - Havin to do the training will be a great excuse reason for getting out of the house



I got waaay too cocky with the rest day! Should you be considering Bootcamp type excercises as a form of excercise for a rest day the best advice is ........ Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Who knew that the Boot in Bootcamp is actually short for Booting it around a sports hall that could double for a sweatbox in one of those Prisoner Of War movies? - I'm assuming that everyone knew, bar me!
Your rope videos Ososlo, while having far too many sado-masochistic undertones for my liking, are a far more genteel and reasonable form of excercise.
I'm aching in places that I didn't even know were classed as muscle groups.
TG to get back to the running today - rest days might become a nightmare if I'm not careful!
I'm off to get a straw for my coffee as can't lift cup

Good luck with the ais and don't force any of the movements. Just listen carefully to the instructor guy. Enjoy and report back! Just do it before your run and do it very slowly and gently.

vitani

adrian522 wrote: »

Is there anywhere around the Phoenix park I could leave a bag while I go running? I've got Jury service down in Parkgate street and would be good to get some runs down in the park.

I'm not a fan of running with my bag on my back but I guess I could do that if it comes to it.

Does Heuston Station still have lockers? I know it used to years ago.

adrian522

vitani wrote: »

Does Heuston Station still have lockers? I know it used to years ago.

Good call, there, I'll check it out!

bucketybuck

Perhaps getting ahead of myself, but I have a question about after the marathon.

I'm a novice and this is my first time getting involved in running. Assuming I follow the Higdon plan what am I going to feel like in the days following the marathon?

The reason I ask is that I have the opportunity to go on a 6 day rock climbing trip leaving on the 31st October, but is this realistic or will I be in bits for weeks after the marathon?

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes I am doing the BAA Intermediate, I think this rock in roll half is way over priced especially for someone like me who is not into music. But if the timing is right I may bite the bullet, Cheers for the suggestion.

You are right, it is totally overpriced and the course is ridiculously difficult.
You start down by the port and finish up at the highest point in phoenix park, so it's a very uphill course.
I reckon you would run several minutes faster on a normal course, so running the R&R half might not give you an idea of what kind of shape you are actually in...
There is not a lot of choice for Half's in August. Maybe the longford half on the 24th? It's a pretty good course though again possibly a bit dear (but at least your money is going to local charities).

Ososlo

bucketybuck wrote: »

Perhaps getting ahead of myself, but I have a question about after the marathon.

I'm a novice and this is my first time getting involved in running. Assuming I follow the Higdon plan what am I going to feel like in the days following the marathon?

The reason I ask is that I have the opportunity to go on a 6 day rock climbing trip leaving on the 31st October, but is this realistic or will I be in bits for weeks after the marathon?

Good question!
I was ok but a bit stiff for the 2 days after but calves got sore a good few days after. I can't imagine being able to go rock climbing so soon. I was on hols so just gently ambled along the beach. I recovered fully within a week or 10 days I think.
Everyone's different but I fear rock climbing so soon might be a step too far.

adrian522

menoscemo wrote: »

You are right, it is totally overpriced and the course is ridiculously difficult.
You start down by the port and finish up at the highest poitn in phoenix park, so it's a very uphill course.
I reckon you would run several minutes faster on a normal course, so running the R&R half might not give you an idea of what kind of shape you are actually in...
There is not a lot of choice for Half's in August. Maybe the longford half on the 24th? It's a pretty good course though again possibly a bit dear (but at least your money is going to local charities).

You don't need to run a half in week 6. The plan calls for a race from 10 miles to HM. I'm planning on using the Frank Duffy for this race.

I then plan to run the race series half in September and adjust the plan accordingly.

menoscemo

adrian522 wrote: »

You don't need to run a half in week 6. The plan calls for a race from 10 miles to HM. I'm planning on using the Frank Duffy for this race.

I then plan to run the race series half in September and adjust the plan accordingly.

Sounds good. A 10 mile race is just as good as a Half IMO.

JohnDozer

I think everybody recovers differently, I think I recover quite quickly but others I know have suffered for a week or two after and not been able for much activity. You'll get a good sense from your longer runs how much they are taking out of you and how much this will have an impact after the marathon, probably multiply it by two (not very scientific I know!)

From reading elsewhere on boards, it seems to be true that you get barred from boards of you participate in the half-ultra in courtmacsherry in July??

Laois_Man

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes I am doing the BAA Intermediate, I think this rock in roll half is way over priced especially for someone like me who is not into music. But if the timing is right I may bite the bullet, Cheers for the suggestion.

Clonmel is half the price of R&R and fits in perfectly with your plan - Cheaper than Longford too (which is €38.45 up to July 1st versus €25 for Clonmel) and I have heard great things about the Clonmel race.

But then again, Longford is about 30 miles closer to Dublin and Clonmel are only accepting the first 750 entrants - no idea how close they are to that now.

It's a conundrum I am having myself and I d not want to enter anything until the last few days when I know for certain that the injuries are going to be OK for it and I just want to avoid the September 24th Dublin HM really - Unless I am definitely not running DCM this year, in which case I'd love to do it.

EDIT: Reading above - I might just opt for Frank Duffy and not do a HM at all if I am running DCM.

AuldManKing

JohnDozer wrote: »

A question I do have is how best to calculate what your pace should be for the BAA plan. Two runs this coming week have sections at Marathon pace. Is this current predicted marathon pace according to McMillan or is it the planned marathon pace? Or is there a better way of calculating it?

The BAA plan uses the Marathon pace runs for 2 reasons.
(1) to get you used to running at Marathon Pace. (or MP +10 seconds)
(2) To act as a 'mild' tempo run for you.

In the blurb attached to the plan it says to run it "at or near this pace" - which they define as MP +10 secs.

Now - if you can run at your projected MP (+10 secs) for the Marathon Tempo parts of the plan, then great.
But if you drop by a few seconds, then dont worry about it - theres a lot of time left to build to MP stuff.
The aim of these runs are to stress your body and get it to adapt to running at MP.

The BAA plan has different aspects of MP running:

For Marathon Tempos (e.g. 2x15 mins) - I think you should be really trying to hit the projected pace.

For Marathon paced intervals (e.g. 4x1600) - I think you should be really trying to hit the projected pace.

For Marathon pace at the end of long runs (e.g. 16-18 miles with last 4 at MP), then I'd be ok with doing current Marathon pace or marathon effort - with the aim of getting faster at these as the weeks progress.

I found that by the end of the BAA plan, my 'muscle memory' had dialled in my MP to the extent that I didn't need to look at the watch to know I was at MP.

AK333

Laois_Man wrote: »

Clonmel is half the price of R&R and fits in perfectly with your plan - Cheaper than Longford too (which is €38.45 up to July 1st versus €25 for Clonmel) and I have heard great things about the Clonmel race.

But then again, Longford is about 30 miles closer to Dublin and Clonmel are only accepting the first 750 entrants - no idea how close they are to that now.

I'm a member of Clonmel AC and bias but its a well run race, and a good relatively flat course, though there isn't support all the way round but its one of the cheaper HM. They usually have around 500 running this so people have time to make up their minds. Good facilities and loads of grub afterwards.

I'd recommend it

AK333

Recovery run this morning. Thought it was 2 miles. Note to self, check plan better, it should have been 3 miles.

Got lots of looks barely jogging along - I'm thinking of getting a running shirt saying, "Yes I know I'm slow, its a recovery run!"

BuilderBob

AK333 wrote: »

Recovery run this morning. Thought it was 2 miles. Note to self, check plan better, it should have been 3 miles.

Got lots of looks barely jogging along - I'm thinking of getting a running shirt saying, "Yes I know I'm slow, its a recovery run!"

Good point AK333. I was looking at a lot of "slow" runners yesterday in a whole new light

earwego

got 2miles done this morning.. slowly but surely... felt much better today

BuilderBob

adrian522 wrote: »

Is there anywhere around the Phoenix park I could leave a bag while I go running? I've got Jury service down in Parkgate street and would be good to get some runs down in the park.

I'm not a fan of running with my bag on my back but I guess I could do that if it comes to it.

AFAIK you have an usher/minder assigned to jurors so butter them up and they should be able to help you out. Bit of a mission to go across to Heuston (if they do stil have lockers - couldn't swear on it), drop the bag and then toddle off running, especially if you're short on time. It's further than you'd think;)
Enjoy the Park though - it's a fantastic spot to run.

adrian522

BuilderBob wrote: »

AFAIK you have an usher/minder assigned to jurors so butter them up and they should be able to help you out. Bit of a mission to go across to Heuston (if they do stil have lockers - couldn't swear on it), drop the bag and then toddle off running, especially if you're short on time. It's further than you'd think;)
Enjoy the Park though - it's a fantastic spot to run.

Thanks, I'll have a chat to him tomorrow. Hopefully they have a cloakroom or something I can use!

ecoli

AK333 wrote: »

Recovery run this morning. Thought it was 2 miles. Note to self, check plan better, it should have been 3 miles.

Got lots of looks barely jogging along - I'm thinking of getting a running shirt saying, "Yes I know I'm slow, its a recovery run!"

Get a t shirt saying "see you race day" instead. Trust me they work. With one of my old coaches (a 2.16 marathoner) I used to do recovery runs with him. At first I thought would never be able to keep with. Turns out most of the time in the early days he would actually say "mind if we slow it down" more often than not, this was one of the biggest eye openers for me to the benefits of recovery runs

Nicsx

Just in from my LSR with Yourpaceormine - 16.2 miles at 10.17. Had enough left in the legs to up the pace a bit for the last mile - a mixture of time constraints & practising the sprint finish!! (I use the term sprint very loosely)

As you can imagine it's a warm day, we were glowing when we came in. Should we be drinking something to replace electrolytes etc or am I overthinking things. I just had water on the way round, Yourpaceormine had Lucozade sport. Thanks

frash

Just in from 5 mile lunchtime run @ just under 10 min per mile (a comfortable pace)

Still have some stiffness in the muscles around my ankle & it seems to be spreading into my calf too. Seeing someone on Thursday about it but in the meantime are those 'Deep Heat' sprays any good? or maybe the cooling ones?

p.s. off to update the spreadsheet

Dow99

Nicsx wrote: »

Just in from my LSR with Yourpaceormine - 16.2 miles at 10.17. Had enough left in the legs to up the pace a bit for the last mile - a mixture of time constraints & practising the sprint finish!! (I use the term sprint very loosely)

As you can imagine it's a warm day, we were glowing when we came in. Should we be drinking something to replace electrolytes etc or am I overthinking things. I just had water on the way round, Yourpaceormine had Lucozade sport. Thanks

After running 16miles you should be replacing, carbs, sodium, water and protein to help your muscles.
Chocolate Milk is great for replacing carbs and getting protein into you as well as hydrating (a little).

ecoli

frash wrote: »

Just in from 5 mile lunchtime run @ just under 10 min per mile (a comfortable pace)

Still have some stiffness in the muscles around my ankle & it seems to be spreading into my calf too. Seeing someone on Thursday about it but in the meantime are those 'Deep Heat' sprays any good? or maybe the cooling ones?

Your calf muscles actually make up your Achilles tendon so the issues are most likely coming from the same cause. Wouldn't worry about the sprays but rather focus on active stretching (google "dynamic stretching" both "gastronemius" and "soleus" as a good starting point but the medical practictioner will be able to point you in the right direction for more individualized attention for muscle tightness/shortness)