DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

neilthefunkeone

frash wrote: »

Watch out for the rats crossing the path though.

Lovely! I can just see one running out, The GF having a panic and cycling into the canal..

I'll Bring my phone so!

NyOmnishambles

5 miles this morning before work

It was lovely out and I am hoping to make this a regular thing

Firedance

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

5 miles this morning before work

It was lovely out and I am hoping to make this a regular thing

sounds lovely! if I didn't have to walk the dog in the morning I'd do my run then, nice & cool.... Did 4 miles yesterday eve in my new runners, very comfy and more importantly no foot pain today.

ciaranmac

14k LSR on Saturday.
A bit of walking, carrying bags and kicking a ball around on Sunday.
6k at PMP yesterday.

AuldManKing

Some great running going on here.

As you get more consistent, there is a danger that you might want to run more miles or faster than planned.
We've all done it (and suffered the consequences later on).

As has been said many times, making the start line is a battle in itself and this should be your priority.
You cant run your 1st marathon if your not at the start line

Stick to the plan to a certain extent, but don't be a slave to the plan - also listen to your body. If you feel tired, take a rest day.
We're only early July - plenty of time to go.

ecoli

JohnDozer wrote: »

@Ososlo... Thanks for the response, in relation to the replacing a workout with a race, next week has a workout which contains 4 X 1 mile @ MP with 3 mins recovery on Tuesday. There is a 4 mile race on Monday. If I did this with a 2 mile warm up and cool down would it be of similar benefit? 4 mile pace would be about 45 - 60 secs below PMP. I would do my LSR Saturday morning early so have 60 hours recovery and have another easy day on Tuesday so I should be on recovery wise?

In relation to easy runs, I'm doing them all at 45 seconds below MP. Is this ok or should be looking to go closer to the 90 as recommended in the 45 - 90 second window with a few of them?

A session will never replicate the benefits of a race however the issue is recovery. In an ideal world we would race every day as the most optimal training but this doesn't work simply because its the recovery period where your body adapts to the training load. The work you do is only half the story in terms of improvement. This is why especially in the early phases of training it is better to do the training and keep race substitutions to a minimum.

That being said 4*1 mile is often used (especially by many here) as a good 5k indicator session due to similar physiological demands (the rest period between reps is what allows the increase of distance). I would say that 5k and 4 mile would be similar enough to swap in though as long as you allow adequate recovery (I would say if its a Wednesday probably aim till about Saturday/ Sunday till your next hard effort session and use easy general running in the mean time)

MKDTH

Week 7 of the training plan done. 16.86 Miles ran over five days in 189 mins. Six miles run last night was my furthest yet which was pleasing, especially considering it was mainly all up hill.

Clontarf five mile this Saturday. Anything under 52 mins would be pleasing.

AuldManKing

JohnDozer wrote: »

@Ososlo... Thanks for the response, in relation to the replacing a workout with a race, next week has a workout which contains 4 X 1 mile @ MP with 3 mins recovery on Tuesday. There is a 4 mile race on Monday. If I did this with a 2 mile warm up and cool down would it be of similar benefit? 4 mile pace would be about 45 - 60 secs below PMP. I would do my LSR Saturday morning early so have 60 hours recovery and have another easy day on Tuesday so I should be on recovery wise?

In relation to easy runs, I'm doing them all at 45 seconds below MP. Is this ok or should be looking to go closer to the 90 as recommended in the 45 - 90 second window with a few of them?

On the LSR point - at this stage I'd do them 60-90 below MP, depending on how you feel - I'd even say its best not to set a target for pace and just get the time on the legs.
As you progress (Aug/Sept timeframe), maybe doing some of the later miles at MP+45 secs .

Regarding the race - is it a race that you'll be racing or do you want to do it at MP?
If you are doing it at MP - then fine.
If you are racing it, then it'll be stressing different systems than a 4x1m MP session.
You'll still get a great benefit from it if you do race it, but then be careful with recovery the next day (as you already suggest).

The 4x1m MP session is a sort of light tempo session & also gets you used to the MP miles.
The 4m race is a different beast that will stress the aerobic (V02 max capacity) (kinda like eyeballs out sort of racing )

If you do the race - dont try to catch up on the 4x1m mp session.
Both will do you good - once the recovery is ample before & after the race.

AuldManKing

ecoli wrote: »

A session will never replicate the benefits of a race however

That being said 4*1 mile is often used (especially by many here) as a good 5k indicator session due to similar physiological demands (the rest period between reps is what allows the increase of distance). I would say that 5k and 4 mile would be similar enough to swap in though as long as you allow adequate recovery (I would say if its a Wednesday probably aim till about Saturday/ Sunday till your next hard effort session and use easy general running in the mean time)

The proposed session is 4x1m @ MP.

ecoli

AuldManKing wrote: »

The proposed session is 4x1m @ MP.

Whoops , in that case I would say the effects of these 2 sessions would be hugely different and in terms of physiological effects. I wouldn't discourage you doing the race but if I was to race, I would do it very sparingly as injury risk in the early stages of your running career can be high which is why erring on the side of caution will 99% of the time yield the best results.

Sometimes though we do need a race to see the clearing beyond the forest so to speak in terms of keeping us from going stir crazy in heavy phases of marathon training, though the plan incorporates plenty in regard to the race series to break this up.

SoundoftheSea

Hi all, I am loving reading all the reports. It keeps me motivated. I am running the Clontarf Half on Saturday. Only managed 9.25 as a LSR so hope I won't suffer on the day. Hopefully it is as flat as they say. Did 4 miles tonight and I will do another 4 on thursday.
It will be nice to just slot into the Hal training plan for DCM.

Dub13

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Hi all, I am loving reading all the reports. It keeps me motivated. I am running the Clontarf Half on Saturday. Only managed 9.25 as a LSR so hope I won't suffer on the day. Hopefully it is as flat as they say. Did 4 miles tonight and I will do another 4 on thursday.
It will be nice to just slot into the Hal training plan for DCM.

Welcome on board, no huge step up from 9.25 so you should be grand. I train down on this route all the time, its true very flat.

SoundoftheSea

Thank you Dub13 that's great to hear

Darren 83

Last run before Clontarf Half on Saturday might do a cycle on Thursday.

5 miles steady @ 8:20 pace

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/532627714#

Con62

Hi
I've being reading this all week, it's always being something I wanted, but always held back. No more. Saterday last I ran my first marathon in Waterford. Finished in 4hrs-2min. Made up my mind tonite, I'm going for Dublin. My times are not consistent Castletown 10k...48min. Wexford half marathon...1hrs-47min and that's all the raceing I've done.
I train two nights a week with a local club here in Wexford, I follow this with a session on my own and Saterday mornings we meet up for the 10ml LSR. However this week and next it's a time out to recover, then it's back on the roads again
I'm in my mid fifths, I am going to run the Dublin Marathon because I can! With a forum like this, where people with experience share generously, I hope to finish and drop those 2 minits, finishing sub 4hrs...(3-50, the dream)

Ososlo

Con62 wrote: »

Hi
I've being reading this all week, it's always being something I wanted, but always held back. No more. Saterday last I ran my first marathon in Waterford. Finished in 4hrs-2min. Made up my mind tonite, I'm going for Dublin. My times are not consistent Castletown 10k...48min. Wexford half marathon...1hrs-47min and that's all the raceing I've done.
I train two nights a week with a local club here in Wexford, I follow this with a session on my own and Saterday mornings we meet up for the 10ml LSR. However this week and next it's a time out to recover, then it's back on the roads again
I'm in my mid fifths, I am going to run the Dublin Marathon because I can! With a forum like this, where people with experience share generously, I hope to finish and drop those 2 minits, finishing sub 4hrs...(3-50, the dream)

Hey Con! Welcome to the thread and congrats on Waterford! Super time for your first. I'd love to hear more about it if you want to write a race report and post it here. It'd be really useful for those doing their first in October to hear from someone who's done a marathon so recently.
Are any of the club doing DCM? What plan will you follow this time?
No reason you can't drop those 2 mins and aim for your target of 3:50.
Feel free to start logging your mileage on the spreadsheet if you so wish.

Con62

My first marathon;
The day starts early, alarm set for 5-30am, I was waiting for it. Gear laid out the night before, light breakfast and a cup off tea. Visit the bathroom again , leave the house @ 6-30am. Lift arranged seven travelling in two cars and the conversation was light. Arriving in Waterford 8am. Park and change, final prep, I was the novice in the group and watched what everyone else did. Lots of Vaseline, feet, groin, bum, chest etc, final visit to the loo and walked a mile to the start, with the atmosphere building all the time.
9-14am the race starts with a gentle lap of the old city, I placed myself behind the 4hrs pacers, introduced myself, and quickly engaged with everyone in the group. The pace was slow, there was no banking time, I moved out in front off the pacers @ halfway feeling very comfortable, it got lonely very quick. Also it's heading towards noon and it's getting very hot, I took water at every station which were placed every two miles. Into Tramore we headed I'm running on my own with great support from the crowds, at the 20mls marker I know I made a mistake, I should never have left the pacers, quickly I feel myself going backwards. Not long before the pacers pass, I took my first and last gel at 23mls, I was not stopping, no way, no how. At 24mls my world was turning gray quickly. But kept pushing foward. I was watching my times all the way, now I realised 4hrs was gone, I could hear the PA systems at the finishing line, I knew I was going to finish, another water, head down and go for it. My efforts over the last six miles were laboured, the mistakes I made were those off a novice, never get isolated, stay in company, it's easier, ignore the pacers at your pearl. Finally don't wait till mile marker 23 to take your first ever gel, your world could turn gray too...
I followed the plan, put in the long slow runs, got the fancy runners, nothing prepared me for the for that moment when you cross the line. It's amazing and all I want, is to do it again. Three of the seven who traveled last Saterday have committed to DCM 14

NyOmnishambles

That is a fantastic write up Con, thanks for that and welcome aboard

Did the 5 miles this morning with the 3 miles at MP (well it was a little slower than the MP I am hoping for but not too far off)
I was out yesterday evening and had done a lot of walking yesterday so didn't get to foam roll so the legs were heavy starting out so not too miffed I didn't quiet keep pace

Murph_D

Well done Con. Amazing how that "easy" pace gets harder and harder as the race goes on, isn't it? Great time though - I debuted with a 3:62 myself.

By the way I hope everyone brought their own jar of Vaseline.

Firedance

Con62 wrote: »

My first marathon;
The day starts early, alarm set for 5-30am, I was waiting for it. Gear laid out the night before, light breakfast and a cup off tea. Visit the bathroom again , leave the house @ 6-30am. Lift arranged seven travelling in two cars and the conversation was light. Arriving in Waterford 8am. Park and change, final prep, I was the novice in the group and watched what everyone else did. Lots of Vaseline, feet, groin, bum, chest etc, final visit to the loo and walked a mile to the start, with the atmosphere building all the time.
9-14am the race starts with a gentle lap of the old city, I placed myself behind the 4hrs pacers, introduced myself, and quickly engaged with everyone in the group. The pace was slow, there was no banking time, I moved out in front off the pacers @ halfway feeling very comfortable, it got lonely very quick. Also it's heading towards noon and it's getting very hot, I took water at every station which were placed every two miles. Into Tramore we headed I'm running on my own with great support from the crowds, at the 20mls marker I know I made a mistake, I should never have left the pacers, quickly I feel myself going backwards. Not long before the pacers pass, I took my first and last gel at 23mls, I was not stopping, no way, no how. At 24mls my world was turning gray quickly. But kept pushing foward. I was watching my times all the way, now I realised 4hrs was gone, I could hear the PA systems at the finishing line, I knew I was going to finish, another water, head down and go for it. My efforts over the last six miles were laboured, the mistakes I made were those off a novice, never get isolated, stay in company, it's easier, ignore the pacers at your pearl. Finally don't wait till mile marker 23 to take your first ever gel, your world could turn gray too...
I followed the plan, put in the long slow runs, got the fancy runners, nothing prepared me for the for that moment when you cross the line. It's amazing and all I want, is to do it again. Three of the seven who traveled last Saterday have committed to DCM 14

That's a brilliant race report Con, thanks a mil for sharing your experience with us, some really good tips in there. Welcome aboard!

I'll be falling asleep at my desk today after last nights very tough tempo run at the club, 3 miles on track and 4 miles on the road (including warm down). Felt great once done though! Calves are very (very) sore on the new foam roller - should I just keep at that? will they get less sore eventually?!

frash

Thanks for the race report Con.

Is Vaseline the way to go?
I invested in some BodyGlide that seems to be working.

bucketybuck

Novice question I guess, but where and why should I be using vaseline?

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

That's a brilliant race report Con, thanks a mil for sharing your experience with us, some really good tips in there. Welcome aboard!

I'll be falling asleep at my desk today after last nights very tough tempo run at the club, 3 miles on track and 4 miles on the road (including warm down). Felt great once done though! Calves are very (very) sore on the new foam roller - should I just keep at that? will they get less sore eventually?!

Hi Firedance and glad you're enjoying the new roller! It's the grid afaicr. Yes it should hurt but I wouldn't overdo it either. Maybe you could do each calf for no more than 2/3 mins every second day for the moment.

frash

bucketybuck wrote: »

Novice question I guess, but where and why should I be using vaseline?

Having learnt the hard way on a LSR on a hot day....:eek:

It's to stop friction so we're talking tops of legs, nips, under arms, etc.

Hadn't considered the feet until mentioned by Con in his race report.

Vico1612

bucketybuck wrote: »

Novice question I guess, but where and why should I be using vaseline?

Bodyglide and Vaseline will be your best friends soon , once you increase the distance ... Your hidden body parts will thank you :-)
From experience, [ sorry for details ] , Bodyglide does a better job on man moobs / nips / private areas on hot days and isn't as messy as vaseline [ which is great between toes .. ]

JohnDozer

Vico1612 wrote: »

Bodyglide and Vaseline will be your best friends soon , once you increase the distance ... Your hidden body parts will thank you :-)
From experience, [ sorry for details ] , Bodyglide does a better job on man moobs / nips / private areas on hot days and isn't as messy as vaseline [ which is great between toes .. ]

If you wear a singlet or vest it's also good to put some under the arms where there will probably be a good bit of friction! And also if your shorts have an inner lining, put some on the inner thigh where the lining meets the leg... That last one might only be an issue for ample sized runners like myself though :-)

You will only forget it once or twice on long runs and then never again... When the water from the shower meets the nipple that had been chafed there is no worse pain known to man, I have been known to let out a little scream!!

Sorry frash, just saw your response now which covers the above, my bad!

neilthefunkeone

Vaseline on the Nipples!! I learned the hard way!

Anyone one wanna see the picture again!?

vitani

I've ran 14 miles a few times now and have never had a chafing problem. Is this an exclusively male thing or have I just never run far enough?

Ososlo

vitani wrote: »

I've ran 14 miles a few times now and have never had a chafing problem. Is this an exclusively male thing or have I just never run far enough?

I only ever got it once on an extremely hot day under arms. See how you go. You might not need it.

Ososlo

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Vaseline on the Nipples!! I learned the hard way!

Anyone one wanna see the picture again!?

Nnnnnnnnooooooooooooooo neil!!!!!!