DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Laois_Man

Did my 5 mile MP run last night (not including warm up/down).

I was disgusted on Tuesday at how sore the leg muscles felt after less than 4 miles on Monday evening - just coz I hadn't run since the previous Tuesday. :eek:

Anyway, I was grand yesterday for my 5 miles @ PMP - My PMP is 9:00 per mile....went a bit faster than that - a good bit faster than that on one of the miles actually (8:11). Have to try harder to hold myself back!

Tiny little bit of pain in the leg last night afterwards which is slightly Worrying
Also a little bit of twinge on the hamstring which is also slightly worrying!

3 very slow miles tonight....I said SLOW!! If I do anything under 10:15 at the most in any of the miles, I am giving myself 1,000 hand-written lines of "I must go slower on my running" (which I will scan in an post up here for teachers' review)

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

Did my 5 mile MP run last night (not including warm up/down).

I was disgusted on Tuesday at how sore the leg muscles felt after less than 4 miles on Monday evening - just coz I hadn't run since the previous Tuesday. :eek:

Anyway, I was grand yesterday for my 5 miles @ PMP - My PMP is 9:00 per mile....went a bit faster than that - a good bit faster than that on one of the miles actually (8:11). Have to try harder to hold myself back!

Tiny little bit of pain in the leg last night afterwards which is slightly Worrying
Also a little bit of twinge on the hamstring which is also slightly worrying!

3 very slow miles tonight....I said SLOW!! If I do anything under 10:15 at the most in any of the miles, I am giving myself 1,000 hand-written lines of "I must go slower on my running" (which I will scan in an post up here for teachers' review)

You'll be getting extra lines for the 8.11 mp also!!! Way too fast LM!!! What were you thinking? Again, bigger picture, bigger picture. ..

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

You'll be getting extra lines for the 8.11 mp also!!! Way too fast LM!!! What were you thinking? Again, bigger picture, bigger picture. ..

I know, I know teach!!

<LAME_EXCUSE>

....... But in my defense, I wasn't watch gazing....and it didn't feel that fast.....which is sorta a good thing

</LAME_EXCUSE>

adrian522

I've been noticing recently that my HR has been way too elevated even at very slow paces, so at lunch time I decided to take the HR monitor and to religiously stick to a HR of between 75 and 78% of max.

And what a disappointing almost depressing experience, I pretty much had to slow to a walk at times, the pace came out at close enough to 11 m/m. I was barely running at all.

As recently as June 16th I was running 9:16 m/m at 78% of Max on average.

So I really haven't a clue what is going on. Don't know what pace to go at now. I certainly don't see myself putting in 16 weeks at this sort of pace.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

I've been noticing recently that my HR has been way too elevated even at very slow paces, so at lunch time I decided to take the HR monitor and to religiously stick to a HR of between 75 and 78% of max.

And what a disappointing almost depressing experience, I pretty much had to slow to a walk at times, the pace came out at close enough to 11 m/m. I was barely running at all.

As recently as June 16th I was running 9:16 m/m at 78% of Max on average.

So I really haven't a clue what is going on. Don't know what pace to go at now. I certainly don't see myself putting in 16 weeks at this sort of pace.

How many runs did you notice that over? If it's only one or two I wouldn't worry.
Could you be a bit run down? Extra tired these days due to work? A bit of a bug? It is very warm these days so that could account for some of it. Maybe worth getting your bloods checked? Do you feel the same enthusiasm for your running these days?

If you really feel fine and in the full of your health, maybe take a break from the hr monitor and just run to feel for a while (faulty monitor?), but if 11min/mile is feeling the same (same effort) as 9min/mile did a month ago consistently, then a visit to the doctor mightn't be any harm to get some basic things checked.

How about your rhr? Is that elevated since you noticed the running hr elevated?

laura_ac3

Random general question here but have many people actually signed up for the marathon yet? Was going to as part with the series bundle but kind of hesitant signing up so far in advance in case I get injured. Might just sign up for the series minus the marathon and do that separately.

Got me wondering what everyone else was doing, am I just an overcautious worrier

AuldManKing

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Random general question here but have many people actually signed up for the marathon yet? Was going to as part with the series bundle but kind of hesitant signing up so far in advance in case I get injured. Might just sign up for the series minus the marathon and do that separately.

Got me wondering what everyone else was doing, am I just an overcautious worrier

Maybe an idea to wait, if you are worried.
Committing o it early May improve your mindset though.

SeanPuddin

I'm going to wait until 1st October (17:00) and catch it at 95 euro. Anything could happen between now and then.

Edit: I did just book my hotel though, making sure there is a free cancellation policy. Thanks for reminding me laura_ac3!

laura_ac3

AuldManKing wrote: »

Maybe an idea to wait, if you are worried.
Committing o it early May improve your mindset though.

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I'm going to wait until 1st October (17:00) and catch it at 85 euro. Anything could happen between now and then.

Yeah I think I'll wait, just in case. Thanks AMK - not so much a mindset issue I feel. I'm pretty determined (verging on stubborn!) when I decide to do something and I'm really excited for this challenge and am looking forward to following the plan. Obviously it's a long journey though so anything could happen. Had my first experience this winter of having to skip a race due to injury so think I have that in my head. Was just a thought, got me curious about others!!

Edit: just saw your edit SP, happy to help

Football Friend

Have you raced before?
Did 16 weeks of the Hal Higdon marathon training 2 years ago before hurting my knee. Did the Samsung night run 10k for the last 2 years and finished with a time of 50mins both times.


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?
No.

How much training do you currently do ?
Started the Hal Higdon Novice 2 plan last week. Before this I was playing Sunday league football and the odd game of astro with the occassional run.

What do you want to achieve?
4 hours is the dream.

How many days a week can you train?
As many as required. The Novice 2 plan currently has 5 days per week.

My main questions involve my pace and target time. for a 4 hour finish time I should be aiming for a 9:09 seconds per mile or 5.41 per KM. My times for my first 2 weeks training are as follows.

3.5miles avg pace 9:02 per mile
5 miles avg pace 9:05 per mile
3.05 miles avg pace 8:38 per mile
8.11 miles avg pace 9:25 per mile

3.47 miles avg pace 9:06 per mile
5.07 miles avg pace 9:04 per mile
3.45 miles avg pace 9:08 per mile.
9 miles to do this weekend.

I wouldn't say this has been overly comfortable..slight out of breath but more leg fatigue if anything. I guess I don't really have the serious miles in my legs. Am I aiming too much to do a marathon at this stage/should I reduce my target time to maybe 4:30/should I drop to maybe the Novice 1 plan?

I think personally I currently have a wall of rustiness I need to break through and I should persevere at the current plan. I'm currently running at a good pace and feeling no pain and I'm not under severe pressure while running. I wouldn't be able to have a full blown conversation but could possibly muster up a few words :P

Hi all by the way

Ososlo

Football Friend wrote: »

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ?
No.

How much training do you currently do ?

What do you want to achieve?
4 hours is the dream.

How many days a week can you train?
As many as required. The Novice 2 plan currently has 5 days per week.

My main questions involve my pace and target time. for a 4 hour finish time I should be aiming for a 9:09 seconds per mile or 5.41 per KM. My times for my first 2 weeks training are as follows.

3.5miles avg pace 9:02 per mile
5 miles avg pace 9:05 per mile
3.05 miles avg pace 8:38 per mile
8.11 miles avg pace 9:25 per mile

3.47 miles avg pace 9:06 per mile
5.07 miles avg pace 9:04 per mile
3.45 miles avg pace 9:08 per mile.
9 miles to do this weekend.

I wouldn't say this has been overly comfortable..slight out of breath but more leg fatigue if anything. I guess I don't really have the serious miles in my legs. Am I aiming too much to do a marathon at this stage/should I reduce my target time to maybe 4:30/should I drop to maybe the Novice 1 plan?

I think personally I currently have a wall of rustiness I need to break through and I should persevere at the current plan. I'm currently running at a good pace and feeling no pain and I'm not under severe pressure while running. I wouldn't be able to have a full blown conversation but could possibly muster up a few words :P

Hi all by the way

Hi footballfriend
ok so you can't run all your runs at marathon pace. You're settling yourself up for burnout or injury. Have a really good read of the first two posts on this thread for detailed explanation of why. You should be able to chat easily enough on most of your runs.

Read it carefully and pop back if you need anything explained further.
Great to have you on the thread!
edit to say that you shouldn't get too focused on a target time yet but I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be capable of around four hours and sticking to that plan. As long as you. ... slow....down......

HelenAnne

adrian522 wrote: »

I've been noticing recently that my HR has been way too elevated even at very slow paces, so at lunch time I decided to take the HR monitor and to religiously stick to a HR of between 75 and 78% of max.

And what a disappointing almost depressing experience, I pretty much had to slow to a walk at times, the pace came out at close enough to 11 m/m. I was barely running at all.

As recently as June 16th I was running 9:16 m/m at 78% of Max on average.

So I really haven't a clue what is going on. Don't know what pace to go at now. I certainly don't see myself putting in 16 weeks at this sort of pace.

I'd say the heat and mugginess could have a lot to do with it. I don't use a HRM, but last night I was running at my usual pace and a mile or so in I could really feel my heart banging in my chest. I had to slow right down. As I eased into the run I felt better, but it took me three or four miles to build up to my usual pace and feel ok. I think we're just not used to the heat (but obviously if it persists get it checked, like Ososlo says).

Laois_Man

3 miles last night. Leg feels OK but still a slight twinge in the hamstring (I must research the best Hamstring stretches). Kept it nice and slow. But dopey didn't notice 'til half a mile into the run that the Garmin wasn't started so I don't have the exact splits/average. But I know it was slow enough.

The only thing keeping me between the ditches right now is the ol' AIS. I have to do it before and after EVERY run now (and on rest days) - the wife thinks I've gone mad but it's helping me so much and I keep thinking it's a pity I didn't have this in my armory last year or I might not have missed last years marathon.

I was supposed to be doing a 14 mile LSR tomorrow. But seeing as I haven't done one in 3 weeks, I think it'll be wise to keep it at 10 or so for this week and see how it feels....will cut it even shorter if I'm feeling pain....but fingers crossed!

Jelly Legs

Hi Laois Man - I'm no expert but just wondering if you are foam rolling as well. I'm not saying you shouldn't be stretching the hammies but for me the foam roller is the only thing that really loosens them out

Laois_Man

Jelly Legs wrote: »

Hi Laois Man - I'm no expert but just wondering if you are foam rolling as well. I'm not saying you shouldn't be stretching the hammies but for me the foam roller is the only thing that really loosens them out

Hi.... yeah I have a grid foam roller but I've got bigger issues that no foam roller can fix so I don't tend to use it as much as I should. Perhaps it would be a good idea to focus more on it alright. thanks

kerrylad1

adrian522 wrote: »

I've been noticing recently that my HR has been way too elevated even at very slow paces, so at lunch time I decided to take the HR monitor and to religiously stick to a HR of between 75 and 78% of max.

And what a disappointing almost depressing experience, I pretty much had to slow to a walk at times, the pace came out at close enough to 11 m/m. I was barely running at all.

As recently as June 16th I was running 9:16 m/m at 78% of Max on average.

So I really haven't a clue what is going on. Don't know what pace to go at now. I certainly don't see myself putting in 16 weeks at this sort of pace.

If this is your first marathon,put the heart rate monitor back into its box until after the marathon.Just run your long slow runs around 1minute and 30seconds slower than ur marathon pace runs.So if ur marathon pace runs are 9minutes per mile,do ur slow runs at 10:15 to 10:30.My heart rate would be all over the place as sometimes I get a bit anxious for no apparent reason,so if I was constantly checking my heart rate,I would probably be in the E.R. every week.I have ran four marathons since October 12,never wore a heart rate monitor and still improved with each run.

bucketybuck

A lot of talk about pace in here, but how do I know what my pace should be?

People say to run 1 minute slower than my marathon pace, but how do I know what my marathon pace is? Is it simply a goal pace, ie: I want to finish in four hours, but then what if that isn't actually a realistic pace for me?

adrian522

Thanks Kerry lad, I'll try to run more to feel for a while.

buckety buck, don't worry too much about pace, just make sure you are running your easy paced miles at a "conversational" pace. Seems to be the main bit of advice people seem to get on these forums.

ecoli

@bucketybuck

Re: pace
As was stated before the conversation test is a good indicator of whether you are going too hard or not. You should be able to hold full on conversations while running without being out of breath. By the end of the runs you will feel comfortably tired (not out on your feet but you will know you have exercised)

My advice for anyone in there first 2-3 years of running is that 90% of the time we tend to appproach these too aggresively. Time on your feet will be where you will make most gains as you start to build up your aerobic capacity. Always err on the side of caution as by just getting out and running you will improve however going to hard too often you will compromise consistency of training with an increased injury risk.

Its better to do 4-5 days a week @ 70% than 3 days @ 100%

Nicsx

Well, the dreaded lurgy didn't get me so did 14m LSR with YourPaceOrMine today. Thankfully it was a lot cooler than my long runs of late & the few drops of rain were quite welcome. We thought we were running at the same pace as usual, lots of chat etc but the watch says the average pace was quicker than we were aiming for. We also did the last 3m at a tentative PMP. Now that was a killer on my lovely incline home!

A big thank you to Ososlo for recommending the Dioralyte sachets post LSR. I know we don't have the same level of heat but I took one when I came in & feel quite good

Ososlo

bucketybuck wrote: »

A lot of talk about pace in here, but how do I know what my pace should be?

People say to run 1 minute slower than my marathon pace, but how do I know what my marathon pace is? Is it simply a goal pace, ie: I want to finish in four hours, but then what if that isn't actually a realistic pace for me?

Yes it's a tough one to figure out. One way is to put a recent race into McMillan calculator and use the marathon prediction as a very loose guide. It shouldn't be your aspirational pace but your current marathon pace.
The best thing to do I find is to run it by feel. Imagine you're setting out to run 20 miles and run accordingly at a pace you feel you could sustain for a few hours. So you're not working too hard or too easy.
A little bit harder than your easy runs.
A lot of people like to use McMillan but personally I'd go a bit slower than his predicted pace if you do want to use that calculator.

edit: sorry, I thought you were talking about pace for actual marathon pace runs not lsr! The above is about running marathon pace runs, not lsr pace.

Ososlo

Best of luck to all running Clontarf tomorrow. Don't forget to say hi to Boardsie pacer legend menoscemo (he is a few years older now but you get the idea:D) and FerrisB if running with the 1:50 pacers in the half.
Bring on the race reports!

menoscemo

Ososlo wrote: »

Best of luck to all running Clontarf tomorrow. Don't forget to say hi to Boardsie pacer legend menoscemo (he is a few years older now but you get the idea:D) and FerrisB if running with the 1:50 pacers in the half.
Bring on the race reports!

Haha, I better not F*** it up now.

The full list of pacers is:

2 hours chinguetti & Aimman

1.50 Meno & FerrisB

1.45 Digger & Claralara

1.40 Gijima & FBOTO1

1.30 Brian O'kelly & Dublinrunner

Ososlo

menoscemo wrote: »

Haha, I better not F*** it up now.

The full list of pacers is:

2 hours chinguetti & Aimman

1.50 Meno & FerrisB

1.45 Digger & Claralara

1.40 Gijima & FBOTO1

1.30 Brian O'kelly & Dublinrunner

Jaysus it's like a Who's Who of the Athletic forum:eek: Many many legends there. I'd almost pop along just to put some faces to the names after all this time! Bring your autograph book folks:D

Darren 83

Best of luck to everyone running tomorrow. Hope everyone gets there target time.

AuldManKing

Can someone get me CL's autograph? Thanks in advance.

laura_ac3

Darren 83 wrote: »

Best of luck to everyone running tomorrow. Hope everyone gets there target time.

Best of luck tomorrow Darren, and everyone else!

SoundoftheSea

Best of luck to all tomorrow. Anyone know what the walk from suggested parking is like, any other options?

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Best of luck to all tomorrow. Anyone know what the walk from suggested parking is like, any other options?

I really don't know but there might be some information on this thread. There's a pdf in there somewhere I think with info on parking etc. Have a root through.
All the best tomorrow SoundoftheSea!

gingersnap

Good luck to everyone running tomorrow too.
I've been having dreams (nightmares?) about arriving at the start line without my number and then not being able find my runners just as the race starts! Hope I get some decent sleep tonight or I'll be a wreck tomorrow