DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

frash

Ososlo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that at all. As all the greats say 'listen to you body'. It'll thank you for it tomorrow. That's exactly how a recovery run should be run. By feel and not to some pace as worked out by a calculator.
If your body still wants to do 11:50 pace tomorrow, then go with it....

Just in from 6.5 miles.
Today my body decided the average pace would be 12:20 :eek:

Oddly I think I could have done another 6.5 at that pace but I just couldn't go any faster. I think this is the slowest pace I've heard of on this thread

Think I might skip tomorrow's run and save myself for the LSR at the weekend.

Darren 83

Thanks for the advise everyone, my mp on the clubs plan is 7:56 which is insane. My easy pace is 9:16 would I be better off just doing mp miles at 8:50 pace for the time being.

I honestly just want to be realistic about it very few last year made a sub 4 in the club.

Ososlo

frash wrote: »

Just in from 6.5 miles.
Today my body decided the average pace would be 12:20 :eek:

Oddly I think I could have done another 6.5 at that pace but I just couldn't go any faster. I think this is the slowest pace I've heard of on this thread

Think I might skip tomorrow's run and save myself for the LSR at the weekend.

Again, nothing wrong with that. You could still be tired from weekend and it's very warm today so you're right to do what your body wants. I did plenty of long runs at 12+ pace last summer and ran 10:20 ish pace on the day. Time on your feet is what's important, not pace. You're doing great and it's good to feel you could run many more miles at that pace.

frash

Ososlo wrote: »

Again, nothing wrong with that. You could still be tired from weekend and it's very warm today so you're right to do what your body wants. I did plenty of long runs at 12+ pace last summer and ran 10:20 ish pace on the day. Time on your feet is what's important, not pace. You're doing great and it's good to feel you could run many more miles at that pace.

Thanks for that - maybe I won't skip tomorrow's run after all

crisco10

Dilemna....

So LSR was due yesterday but I put it off for 2 (related) reasons...1) I had a bit of a cold and 2) had a job interview this morning. So I didn't want to risk the LSR making cold worse for the interview.

Which brings me to today (post interview); I still feel a bit "muggy" but generally functioning. Should I do LSR tonight? Taking into account the fact if it doesn't happen today it won't happen this week. The plan was ~25km...was leaning toward compromising and doing maybe 20-22km extra slow..

Any more experienced ppl got advice? I'm aware that I don't want to be a slave to the training plan, but really wouldn't want to miss LSR completely this week.

ecoli

crisco10 wrote: »

Dilemna....

So LSR was due yesterday but I put it off for 2 (related) reasons...1) I had a bit of a cold and 2) had a job interview this morning. So I didn't want to risk the LSR making cold worse for the interview.

Which brings me to today (post interview); I still feel a bit "muggy" but generally functioning. Should I do LSR tonight? Taking into account the fact if it doesn't happen today it won't happen this week. The plan was ~25km...was leaning toward compromising and doing maybe 20-22km extra slow..

Any more experienced ppl got advice? I'm aware that I don't want to be a slave to the training plan, but really wouldn't want to miss LSR completely this week.

Would you consider a shortened steady mid length run (say roughly 15km)? Run this roughly around half way between Easy pace and marathon pace. This will give you a bit of a boost in terms of aerobic endurance without hitting your immune system as hard. General rule is that runs longer than 90 minutes tend to be fairly taxing on the immune system so I would probably aim to keep it around that length max at a steady clip.

Otherwise I would probably just keep this a shorter easy run as one missed run as a precaution is better than missing a week due to relapsing with illness.

tang1

crisco10 wrote: »

Dilemna....

So LSR was due yesterday but I put it off for 2 (related) reasons...1) I had a bit of a cold and 2) had a job interview this morning. So I didn't want to risk the LSR making cold worse for the interview.

Which brings me to today (post interview); I still feel a bit "muggy" but generally functioning. Should I do LSR tonight? Taking into account the fact if it doesn't happen today it won't happen this week. The plan was ~25km...was leaning toward compromising and doing maybe 20-22km extra slow..

Any more experienced ppl got advice? I'm aware that I don't want to be a slave to the training plan, but really wouldn't want to miss LSR completely this week.

How bad is the cold, is it gone to your chest or just in the head? If it was me and it was gone into your chest i'd leave the LSR altogether, recover properly. One missed LSR this early in the plan ain't going to determine your marathon result. If its only in your head i'd do some kind of LSR, maybe not the full 25k but as much as you feel you can do.

crisco10

ecoli wrote: »

Would you consider a shortened steady mid length run (say roughly 15km)? Run this roughly around half way between Easy pace and marathon pace. This will give you a bit of a boost in terms of aerobic endurance without hitting your immune system as hard. General rule is that runs longer than 90 minutes tend to be fairly taxing on the immune system so I would probably aim to keep it around that length max at a steady clip.
.

Thanks Ecoli, that sounds like a good compromise. Hadn't heard the rule of thumb regarding 90 mins.

tang1 wrote: »

How bad is the cold, is it gone to your chest or just in the head? If it was me and it was gone into your chest i'd leave the LSR altogether, recover properly. One missed LSR this early in the plan ain't going to determine your marathon result. If its only in your head i'd do some kind of LSR, maybe not the full 25k but as much as you feel you can do.

It should be noted, I'm not dying or anything, just not 100%. Mainly in my head/throat. With a bit of a dry cough.

NyOmnishambles

Didn't get out of bed for the run this morning, that was a mistake

Struggled this evening as it was warmer and I was tired after work but struggled on

5 miles plus 5 hill sprints

Struggled with the run, found it hard to get going, then motored for a while but struggled towards the end

Found the hill sprints fine so maybe the hill wasn't steep enough or I need to go faster

Tigerandahalf

What week are we meant to be on now, week number?
Didn't bother doing any race this week. Body just feels a little tired. Monday I did a 10k walk and went for swim afterwards for about an hour. Tues evening was lovely and sunny so decided to take out my new road bike and go for spin.
Knew I had to get a run in afterwards and time was tight if I wanted to get back for the soccer match. With food not long in my belly I set out to do 10k. Was bit stiff after the cycle so set off at a handy pace. Wanted to keep the food in my stomach. As I went on I felt better and decided to quicken pace. Did 200m strides with about a 1km to go to push myself and then jogged cooled down for last km. Few stretches and in the door for kickoff.
Taken tonight off to just rest the body. Feel it will benefit me more.
It is difficult to stick exactly to a plan but I figure if I do my lsr, a tempo 5k run and a couple of steady 10k runs for each week I should be fine.

Ososlo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

What week are we meant to be on now, week number?
Didn't bother doing any race this week. Body just feels a little tired. Monday I did a 10k walk and went for swim afterwards for about an hour. Tues evening was lovely and sunny so decided to take out my new road bike and go for spin.
Knew I had to get a run in afterwards and time was tight if I wanted to get back for the soccer match. With food not long in my belly I set out to do 10k. Was bit stiff after the cycle so set off at a handy pace. Wanted to keep the food in my stomach. As I went on I felt better and decided to quicken pace. Did 200m strides with about a 1km to go to push myself and then jogged cooled down for last km. Few stretches and in the door for kickoff.
Taken tonight off to just rest the body. Feel it will benefit me more.
It is difficult to stick exactly to a plan but I figure if I do my lsr, a tempo 5k run and a couple of steady 10k runs for each week I should be fine.

We're on Week 3 with the Hal and Boards Plans.

Most plans would have a medium length run mid-week which would get progressively longer each week too so maybe consider that when you're getting your 'plan' together. Keep the majority of the runs at easy effort. It's all about building the miles and time on your feet, whatever plan you're following.

Tigerandahalf

Ososlo wrote: »

We're on Week 3 with the Hal and Boards Plans.

Most plans would have a medium length run mid-week which would get progressively longer each week too so maybe consider that when you're getting your 'plan' together. Keep the majority of the runs at easy effort. It's all about building the miles and time on your feet, whatever plan you're following.

I am probably ahead of the plan at this stage. Maybe no harm as I want to concentrate on the shorter races for the summer. I wonder what is the max lsr distance you should be doing for the shorter distances, 5 and 10k. I would think doing 20k would give me good stamina for the above races?

Ososlo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am probably ahead of the plan at this stage. Maybe no harm as I want to concentrate on the shorter races for the summer. I wonder what is the max lsr distance you should be doing for the shorter distances, 5 and 10k. I would think doing 20k would give me good stamina for the above races?

It depends on your level/experience I guess. Personally, for 5k training I'm doing 10mile lsr. For 10k training I'd do at least 20k lsr (maybe up to 25k). Should give you plenty of stamina and a good basis too to start on marathon training proper.

thehookster

Finally got up and going last night after my lay off and have to say really enjoyed it. i was due to do 3 miles monday but a little niggle in my calf put me off but it was fine yesterday so i said i would go for my 5 miles. Felt strong throughout and was very happy afterwards, i had taken a break from running due to not overly enjoying the runs but last night i felt great.......long may it continue.

Laois_Man

Tried 6 miles at MP last night (plus warm up/down)
Built up to PMP (9:00) very slowly. Started feeling a bit of pain in the leg again after a couple of miles of that so I slowed it down again. Maybe I need to reconsider my PMP. Dunno. I'll see how it goes for another few weeks anyway - I hope!

neilthefunkeone

Have been really poor this week in that the 13 miles on Sunday has just knocked me.. I'm not physically sore just so tired.. I got 5 miles in on Tuesday wasn't so bad but it killed me Wednesday to even get out of bed. Ended up driving the last 2 days as too tired to cycle.

Tried to break it today and went out for 2.5 miles feeling a bit better! Guess i wasn't built up for that many miles yet!

Think ill do another short one tomorrow and Hal is down for 5 miles on Saturday so ill stick to that!

Ososlo

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Have been really poor this week that the 13 miles on Sunday has just knocked me.. I'm not physically sore just so tired.. I got 5 miles in on Tuesday wasn't so bad but it killed me Wednesday to even get out of bed. Ended up driving the last 2 days as too tired to cycle.

Tried to break it today and went out for 2.5 miles feeling a bit better! Guess i wasn't built up for that many miles yet!

Think ill do another short one tomorrow and Hal is down for 5 miles on Saturday so ill stick to that!

Looks like the step back week is coming at a good time for you.
Make sure you are fuelling your body really well. Plenty of good carbs and protein and lots of veg and fruit. Lots of water too of course.
It does take the body time to adjust to what you're putting it through so help it as much as possible through good diet and rest and recovery.

Casey78

Really poor myself this week also. Pain in knee gone but didn't go out and do the scheduled 5 mile last night. Will probably do it tonight even though it should only be a 3 mile tonight.

ChadHogan

Back running in earnest as of middle of last week following a torn hamstring. Physio gave me the all clear to run steady but no sudden acceleration.

Jumped straight into week 2 of the boards plan. Got the 10 mile LSR done in 1:37 approx 9:40 min per mile pace – felt good throughout but legs definitely knew about it later that night.

Going well so far this week,Last night Did 5 miles @ PMP (8:40 per mile), instead of doing the hill sprints session thinking the hill sprints would have been a bad idea at this point in my recovery.

Hoping to get the LSR in this weekend and then im off on two weeks holidays. Im bringing my gear and I’ll be trying to squeeze in the runs where I can, will at least try to get the LSR in.

I’ll have access to a treadmill while I’m away, and I might not be able to get out early enough to run outside while its cool. So I was wondering if anyone had any tips for doing runs on the treadmill to make them more comparable to road running. Such as adding an incline etc. I wouldnt propose to do the LSR on the treadmill just a couple of the shorter runs.

rockwell

I was reading this last night from Intelligent Running on Facebook and thought I'd share. 1 to 3 have been highlighted quite a bit on this thread by our mentors the others i can't comment on yet!

5 things every runner should remember.

1) More isn't necessarily better

2) When you strip away performance-related goals you still need to be able to enjoy running for what it is

3) Tuning into your body's signals is the single most important skill you can learn as a runner

4) What you do inspires others, no matter how much they take the piss out of you for running around in circles

5) Runners are generally smarter, more productive, happier and better looking than their non-running counterparts.

Unless you're an injured runner, and then you become an intolerable monster.

neilthefunkeone

rockwell wrote: »

5) Runners are generally smarter, more productive, happier and better looking than their non-running counterparts.

When does this part start?!

ecoli

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

When does this part start?!

PM me for pictures* :P

* This is a joke people please refrain:D

rockwell

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

When does this part start?!

I'm guessing its the surprise part of our plans! come the 27th Oct we'll be "better looking" because of the big smile across our faces as we cross that finish line

NyOmnishambles

I am definitely being punished for not getting up this morning to do my run

Got soaked on the way home from work, came in dried myself off and went out and did the 4 miles and got soaked again

i am struggling this week, finding it tough, struggling with my pace too, going too fast and then getting tired when I should be going at a more even pace

I will work on that with the LSR on Saturday and concentrate on doing that right

aquinn

Evening,
Ok so fairly traumatised after that. Ran my 13m LSR. I did my 10 last Friday evening and really enjoyed it, a massive cycle Sat and since then 5 M Monday and 3 Wed morning so thought I'd be ok for tonight. Started off in lashing of rain for the first hour and couldn't have been happier as a great pace and very smug and happy with myself for getting out. At 7m I hadn't re-started my watch so lost on about half a mile at least. Realised and stupidly managed to do it again so motivation went 7-9 M. Mile 10 back started to ache and was really heavy as soaked through as nothing waterproof on so saturated from the start. Had a quick cold bath, warm shower, sprayed on magnesium on my legs and OMG the Sting! Lost practically a full toenail and horrifyingly that didn't even hurt. Back in bits now and only just managed to stretch. For my back then and have to then do more than 2 short runs a week before managing a LSR, I do cycle to work everyday so that's my 3m cross but then will go back to pilates, would that be recommended before or after a LSR, after??? Thanks and sorry for the moan but...... oh and avg pace 9.03 so pleased with that. Just tracked full route and did nearly 15M, no wonder I'm traumatised.

frash

aquinn wrote: »

sprayed on magnesium on my legs and OMG the Sting! :

What does this do for you out of interest?

Ososlo

aquinn wrote: »

Evening,
Ok so fairly traumatised after that. Ran my 13m LSR. I did my 10 last Friday evening and really enjoyed it, a massive cycle Sat and since then 5 M Monday and 3 Wed morning so thought I'd be ok for tonight. Started off in lashing of rain for the first hour and couldn't have been happier as a great pace and very smug and happy with myself for getting out. At 7m I hadn't re-started my watch so lost on about half a mile at least. Realised and stupidly managed to do it again so motivation went 7-9 M. Mile 10 back started to ache and was really heavy as soaked through as nothing waterproof on so saturated from the start. Had a quick cold bath, warm shower, sprayed on magnesium on my legs and OMG the Sting! Lost practically a full toenail and horrifyingly that didn't even hurt. Back in bits now and only just managed to stretch. For my back then and have to then do more than 2 short runs a week before managing a LSR, I do cycle to work everyday so that's my 3m cross but then will go back to pilates, would that be recommended before or after a LSR, after??? Thanks and sorry for the moan but...... oh and avg pace 9.03 so pleased with that.

Sounds like you were through the wars tonight aquinn:( Sorry to hear that.
The watch probably threw you off a bit so I wouldn't worry about the motivation bit. You did a good lsr last week so the miles aren't the problem.
Losing the toenail must be horrible but it'll grow back so don't worry about that.
The back however I would worry about. I'm not so sure pilates is a great idea if you have a sore back. You should probably rest it. If it's a recurring problem maybe you should get it checked out if you haven't already.
I don't do pilates at all so can't help you with that but I would be very careful of exercises that might make your back worse. Don't do anything that you feel is not right and might cause you more pain or discomfort. Listening to your body is key here.

Did the 9:03 pace feel nice and easy and relaxed btw????

edit to say that you should wear as little as possible when running in the rain in summer. Your skin is waterproof! It's much more uncomfortable running with slogging wet sleeves than bare arms. A light singlet is all you need..

tang1

Ososlo wrote: »

edit to say that you should wear as little as possible when running in the rain in summer. Your skin is waterproof! It's much more uncomfortable running with slogging wet sleeves than bare arms. A light singlet is all you need..

I take it this is male only advice, cause your just encouraging wet t-shirt competitions if it applies to the ladies to!!

Ososlo

tang1 wrote: »

I take it this is male only advice, cause your just encouraging wet t-shirt competitions if it applies to the ladies to!!

:rolleyes: men :rolleyes:

JohnDozer

An interesting week or ten days since I posted last, where I was wondering about slotting in races into the plan and debating whether to do a short race or not. From all the valued advice I got the thing that stuck with me the most was 'don't be a slave to the plan' - credit to AMK I think (forgive the laziness to go and look if not). This gave me the excuse to go and do what I wanted to do, despite the advice to the contrary. I figured that once I did the appropriate recovery I should be OK to do the race. Most of the races I had done this year were either 10 mile or half marathon so I was wondering if any positive impact had happened with my speed over shorter races. So I signed up for a 4 mile race in Dromcollogher, Co Limerick on Monday evening last. One thing I did decide in advance in order not to overdo it was to not do the LSR last weekend. I figured since I had done a 10mile and a half the two weeks before the plan started that I could drop it safely enough.

What then happened was a bit silly. I happened to be travelling to my parents place last Thursday, and came across a 5k race in Ennis so I decided in my wisdom to do that and see how it went. Arrived early and went for a warm up which I never used to do - just rock up and run - and settled in middle of the pack for the off. From my half marathon time mcmillan was giving me a 5k of about 22.30 so in my head I would settle for anything between 22 and 23. Changed the watch to km's and set off. Settled into a nice pace which I felt I could hold for the first half and then see how the second half went. The first half was nice and undulating but I was moving my way nicely up the field. After the 3k mark was feeling the pain but wasnt being caught by anyone and was holding pace well which continued all the way to the line. Crossed the line on 21.49 with 5.12km on the garmin, only passed by one person all race. I dont think I left anything out there so this is where its at for now. Possibly wont be getting much opportunity for 5k's over the next while but happy enough with that time.

So... I didn't do the 4 miler you think... Aha! I was tempted to post on here and see what the advice was but I guess I knew I would be told not to so I didnt! I ran easy all weekend and no LSR so was nice and fresh Monday. As I mentioned way back in my original post, most of my PB's were set 2/3 years ago when still playing football and I was much fitter and faster over shorter distances, but the 4 mile distance was only raced once and that was hungover, so my previous PB of 29.10 was there for the taking. I haven't done a PB in nearly 2 years at any distance so I couldn't not race! Anyway, got out of the car and started the warmup (developing really good habits in my old age) only for the Garmin to tell me it was going for a nap and wouldnt wake up until I charged it... Major panic, as I am very dependant on it. Fecked it back in the car and carried on the warmup to try and figure out what to do. Debated bringing the phone in my hand but decided against it. After some conversation with myself I figured I may as well run by feel and hope I might see someone I recognised from other races to tag on to, but that was unlikely because I didnt normally run in this area. So, decided I would attempt slightly slower than 5k pace by feel and hope for the best.

A nice crowd gathered at the start line in Dromcollogher with a good mix of runners. Only recognised one guy and knew I was a little quicker than him so decided to tag along for mile 1. Off I went and stayed in touch with the guy, felt fine at mile 1 so decided to move up the pace a little (i was kind of panicking I was slower than expected and wouldnt get the PB). I starting picking off people one by one and got confidence from this and pushed on a little more, not having any great idea how much on or off target I was. Got into a little battle with a guy with about half a mile to go so this pushed the pace on another bit all the way to the finish. Man was I glad to see that line, left it all out there again. No finishing clock so no idea how good or bad it had gone! The guy from the last half mile had crossed the line before me so wandered over to shake his hand and enquire after his garmin reading! He showed me the watch which read 27.15!!! I had forgotten how good it felt to actually PB. Smiling since I think!

Anyway, I know it was crazy to do the races so close, but I am being careful with the recovery and am back on plan already. The downside is from all the recent times over various distances is mcmillan has my marathon time between 3:23 and 3:46 so it will be fun picking paces for training. Obviously 3:23 would be a dream but I genuinely don't think thats achievable for me in October. I do know my limits!!

I'm sorry for the essay. Thanks to anyone who read it and I do value any input, even if I don't take it on board, as it gives me stuff to debate while running. I promise to post more often so that the posts will then be shorter and less painful for you all as a result!!