DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

aquinn

Hey Frash,
I got the Magnesium spray initially to aid sleep but was told to use it after running. It says that it replaces magnesium lost through modern diet and pressured lifestyles. They recommend it in Nourish.

Hey Osolo,
Thanks a million. I just tracked the full route so no wonder I am traumatised as it was nearly 15 so longest run of my life. My pelvis goes out of line so I go to the chiropractor to ease it back so get lower back pain. He says the running is good for it. Was probably too far forward tonight and not up straight so it wouldn't have helped. Was told to strengthen my core so thought with all the running I'd go back to Pilates. I have spikey balls to ease it out as well but really need to use them more. Also I'm not sure I could run that distance and in that rain in just a singlet. Will have a nose at wiggle tomorrow. Oh and the pace for the first 8 miles felt absolutely perfect. Really good.

Ososlo

JohnDozer wrote: »

Crossed the line on 21.49 with 5.12km on the garmin, only passed by one person all race. I dont think I left anything out there so this is where its at for now. Possibly wont be getting much opportunity for 5k's over the next while but happy enough with that time.

He showed me the watch which read 27.15!!! I had forgotten how good it felt to actually PB. Smiling since I think!

Anyway, I know it was crazy to do the races so close, but I am being careful with the recovery and am back on plan already. The downside is from all the recent times over various distances is mcmillan has my marathon time between 3:23 and 3:46 so it will be fun picking paces for training. Obviously 3:23 would be a dream but I genuinely don't think thats achievable for me in October. I do know my limits!!

I'm sorry for the essay. Thanks to anyone who read it and I do value any input, even if I don't take it on board, as it gives me stuff to debate while running. I promise to post more often so that the posts will then be shorter and less painful for you all as a result!!

Fantastic JohnD. Super running and well deserved pbs there. Enjoyed the essay:D Not painful at all!
Macmillan is pretty useless with predictions for the marathon for a novice marathon runner unfortunately but I know you have to base your mp off something so I'd work to the more conservative (upper end of his) predictions for the moment or else just run to feel.
As ecoli said a few posts back, marathon pace should be just a little harder than your easy runs. It really shouldn't feel very hard. It should be a pace you feel you could sustain for many hours.
You've a long way to go until October so will make lots more gains between now and then and you can start really nailing down your mp in a few months.
Well done again:D

vitani

Got out for the five miles with hill sprints this evening. Really enjoyed the hills, which I wasn't expecting. I left them to the last mile so I was nicely warmed up for them and I ran them as proper sprints - up on my toes, arms pumping, etc - my watch read 5.40 min/mile at one point which seems crazy.

Football Friend

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi footballfriend
ok so you can't run all your runs at marathon pace. You're settling yourself up for burnout or injury. Have a really good read of the first two posts on this thread for detailed explanation of why. You should be able to chat easily enough on most of your runs.

Read it carefully and pop back if you need anything explained further.
Great to have you on the thread!
edit to say that you shouldn't get too focused on a target time yet but I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be capable of around four hours and sticking to that plan. As long as you. ... slow....down......

Hey,
Thanks for the advice, I'll try take it on board (it's really tough when I'm running not to just give it 100%)

updates on my training since the last post

Sat - 9.24 miles avg pace 10:04 per mile (made a concious effort to go slow, minor leg stiffness afterwards but nothing major)

Tues - 3.06 miles avg pace 8:12 per mile. have no headphones to blast out my splits this week so just went out and ran at a decent pace without really over exerting myself. felt unbelievably fresh due to the break on Sun and Mon.Was surprised at the end to see that pace...had been under pressure at 9 min miles not so long ago.

Weds - 5.17 miles avg pace 8:22 per mile. No headphones so couldn't hear the splits so just went at a decent pace without killing myself probably around 70% of my maximum speed I suppose. Felt good and no pain afterwards.

Thurs - 3.06 miles avg pace 7:51 per mile. This may have had a lot to do with the rain but once again I was never over exerting myself to the point of exhaustion.

Have 6 miles to do this weekend and will make sure to do them at a lot slower pace approx 10mins per mile. I felt comfortable doing the faster ones during the week but don't want to push it but I think the fact that I have minimal signs of fatigue might mean I'm ok with the faster times.

Also got a gait analysis done and a new set of flashy runners seeing as I'm one of those over pronators! No knee injuries this time I hope!

Really enjoying reading the updates on the thread (not so good at updating it myself though :P ) Keep up the good work everyone!

adrian522

I started my plan proper this week, I've been posting my runs to my log in my sig, but essentially been following week 1 of the BAA plan. 2 Sessions this week done, today calls for 3-6 Miles and I may go with the lower range of that as I've been feeling the effects of the increase in training a little bit.

Saturday 10-12 miles, followed by a rest day on Sunday I think. The plan is tough but hopefully it will leave me in good shape before too long.

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

marathon pace should be just a little harder than your easy runs. It really shouldn't feel very hard. It should be a pace you feel you could sustain for many hours.

I don't think I'll ever find a pace I can sustain for many hours :D rest day today on my plan and I take those very seriously! So far this week tempo run at the club, easy lunchtime run and another club session last night, I can see definite improvements but along with those my list of niggles is getting longer, so, I'm going to switch from yoga to Pilates to see if it will be more beneficial. Have given up trying to find a nice route for LSR so will just do an out and back and hopefully can drag along some company for parts of it. Keep up the good work folks.

JohnDozer

adrian522 wrote: »

I started my plan proper this week, I've been posting my runs to my log in my sig, but essentially been following week 1 of the BAA plan. 2 Sessions this week done, today calls for 3-6 Miles and I may go with the lower range of that as I've been feeling the effects of the increase in training a little bit.

Saturday 10-12 miles, followed by a rest day on Sunday I think. The plan is tough but hopefully it will leave me in good shape before too long.

You're doing well so far! Been keeping an eye out for you on Strava... That's one feature of the plan I really like, a bit of flexibility on the range of miles to be done so you can adjust to how you feel. I'm on week 3 of the plan so hopefully I can be of help to you (unlikely though :-)) if you need it.

As I've mentioned it, the weekend schedule on week 3 has an 8-10 mile run with 45 mins at MP in the middle, with an LSR of 14 miles on Sunday. Can these be flipped around to do the LSR Saturday or do they offer maximum benefit the way they are set up? Or is it just set up that way as most do the LSR on Sunday?

Ososlo

^^^^^ you have 8-10 on Saturday followed by 14 Sunday???? That seems very aggressive for a novice plan!!! Those mp miles might really take it out of you. Can you take a break between those two runs?
I guess it's set up that way for a reason though.

adrian522

JohnDozer wrote: »

You're doing well so far! Been keeping an eye out for you on Strava... That's one feature of the plan I really like, a bit of flexibility on the range of miles to be done so you can adjust to how you feel. I'm on week 3 of the plan so hopefully I can be of help to you (unlikely though :-)) if you need it.

As I've mentioned it, the weekend schedule on week 3 has an 8-10 mile run with 45 mins at MP in the middle, with an LSR of 14 miles on Sunday. Can these be flipped around to do the LSR Saturday or do they offer maximum benefit the way they are set up? Or is it just set up that way as most do the LSR on Sunday?

I've moved everything back a day, so I have those sessions Fri/Sat that week. I guess the point of them is you do the long run on tired legs that week.

That looks an especially tough week, intervals on Monday(8 to 11 miles total), MLR Wedenesday(10-12),Tempo Friday and Long run Saturday. As well as the usual easy runs in between.

Let me know if you are on Strava too, I wouldn't mind keeping an eye on how you are doing.

adrian522

Ososlo wrote: »

^^^^^ you have 8-10 on Saturday followed by 14 Sunday???? That seems very aggressive for a novice plan!!! Those mp miles might really take it out of you. Can you take a break between those two runs?
I guess it's set up that way for a reason though.

Well you could do 8 on one day and 12 the next if you wanted, but yeah it does look pretty tough. It does step back the following week though.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Well you could do 8 on one day and 12 the next if you wanted, but yeah it does look pretty tough. It does step back the following week though.

I'd be very mindful of adjusting that plan if necessary when there are two tough workouts back to back like that. Drop some miles and mp work if necessary and not to do the mp at too hard an effort.

Laois_Man

Firedance wrote: »

I can see definite improvements but along with those my list of niggles is getting longer

Same here

Had a 4 mile easy run scheduled for yesterday. Did my pre-run routine and everything, went out, and as soon as I started running, I felt pain. Aborted the run after no more than 100 meters and went home and spent ages foam rolling.

The kind of issues where, if you could only give it a week or 10 days rest, you'd probably be sorted. But can't do that either! :rolleyes:

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

Same here

Had a 4 mile easy run scheduled for yesterday. Did my pre-run routine and everything, went out, and as soon as I started running, I felt pain. Aborted the run after no more than 100 meters and went home and spent ages foam rolling.

The kind of issues where, if you could only give it a week or 10 days rest, you'd probably be sorted. But can't do that either! :rolleyes:

Maybe you should consider the week of rest. Plenty of time to slot back in...

was interested to read that you see Star for your niggles and injuries. What kind of exercises does he recommended for you and are you doing them religiously? Did you mention to him that you're doing AIS?
Does he think dcm is on for you this year?

frash

Laois_Man wrote: »

The kind of issues where, if you could only give it a week or 10 days rest, you'd probably be sorted. But can't do that either! :rolleyes:

I hear ya!
Still have a niggle in my ankle.
Skipped the 3rd mid-week run this week so as to hopefully get a decent LSR in tomorrow.

Laois_Man

Ososlo wrote: »

Maybe you should consider the week of rest. Plenty of time to slot back in...

was interested to read that you see Star for your niggles and injuries. What kind of exercises does he recommended for you and are you doing them religiously? Did you mention to him that you're doing AIS?
Does he think dcm is on for you this year?

Well, I've already missed nearly all the first week of the plan and we're not even finished week 3 yet. I'm very reluctant to miss more time again and possibly be in the same boat after another week again. I'll see how it goes with the 14 mile LSR tomorrow. If it goes.

Star is an animal. He hurts me - and what's more, he enjoys it! First time I was there, I nearly legged it out of the waiting room when I heard the roars of pain coming from the execution room. I spend most of my sessions there with another physio, Nicola (She hurts me too - but she's got a lot more compassion about it ). But Anthony always comes in to say hello and have a few digs at me. Haven't been there in a while now coz I know what the issues are and I am doing the exercises religiously - Resistance-band work, calf, hamstring stretches etc. that's the "Pre-run routine" I referred to above - although to be honest, I did get a bit lackadaisical with it over the month of May - especially when I was away on holidays - and I was shocked at how quickly I lost the benefits of it all - lesson learned there.

I've been thinking I must e-mail them a link to the video of the AIS but I know it's helping me loads so I don't really need their approval on it - But Anthony tells me every time he sees me that I have a lot of work to do and I'll probably go back very soon for an updated assessment. I know myself that DCM2014 might be a year too early for me and I have been saying that all along and I am prepared for it not to work out. But even if I get through half the plan, it'll help me a lot in the future. That's my reasoning on it - but hoping to be surprised at the same time and end up getting through all of it!

But I'd recommend Anthony to anyone. Every time I've been in that waiting room, I meet people who have traveled to Carlow from every corner of the country especially just to see him. Most with much bigger problems than missing marathon training sessions. And it's quite possible you'll get to meet a very famous athlete or two in there too (I saw Blanka Vlasic in there a few months ago - Robbie Keane had just left another day) - although they tend to skip the waiting room bit - which is actually the most painful bit about seeing him.

Ososlo

Guys and gals, don't forget this thread if you want to arrange to meet up with fellow novices or other boardsies for some long runs over the summer.

ChadHogan

Was out for my LSR this evening, was leaving it open to do 13 or 15 miles depending on how i felt. Only managed the 13.

Headed out just before 5 the temperature in the car said 23 degrees. There was no sun thank god but it was very humid. I really started to feel it after 5k and worried id have to pack it in early, but managed to stick at it by dropping the pace slightly. Stopped to buy a bottle of water and a lucozade sport after about 12 k, really needed it today, have never had to do that before, only reason I had cash with me was in case my hamstring gave me trouble and i had to get a taxi home!

Time for the 13.1 miles was 2hrs 09 mins, so about 9.55min/mile. This included my water stop and walk break while drinking the lucozade. I got a couple of good hills in too. I've a few thoughts following the run.

Definitely toughest run i've ever done - putting this down to a difficult route, tough conditions and the injury layoff. I think I've been a little overconfident and definitely underestimated how tough the next few months will be, i've been put firmly back in my place! which is probably no harm at this point.

Wondering if anyone has had a similar epiphany?

Also would anyone have opinions on minimum days between LSRs. I did Sunday last week and Friday this for convenience. Is a 5 day turnaround asking for trouble?

Ososlo

ChadHogan wrote: »

Was out for my LSR this evening, was leaving it open to do 13 or 15 miles depending on how i felt. Only managed the 13.

Headed out just before 5 the temperature in the car said 23 degrees. There was no sun thank god but it was very humid. I really started to feel it after 5k and worried id have to pack it in early, but managed to stick at it by dropping the pace slightly. Stopped to buy a bottle of water and a lucozade sport after about 12 k, really needed it today, have never had to do that before, only reason I had cash with me was in case my hamstring gave me trouble and i had to get a taxi home!

Time for the 13.1 miles was 2hrs 09 mins, so about 9.55min/mile. This included my water stop and walk break while drinking the lucozade. I got a couple of good hills in too. I've a few thoughts following the run.

Definitely toughest run i've ever done - putting this down to a difficult route, tough conditions and the injury layoff. I think I've been a little overconfident and definitely underestimated how tough the next few months will be, i've been put firmly back in my place! which is probably no harm at this point.

Wondering if anyone has had a similar epiphany?

Also would anyone have opinions on minimum days between LSRs. I did Sunday last week and Friday this for convenience. Is a 5 day turnaround asking for trouble?

You probably started out a bit too fast. Ease into it the next time more gradually. Well done getting through it despite finding it so tough. It'll stand to you as the training goes on. The key really is pace. Get that right from the start and you'll probably find it a lot easier. Have your plan in place about how you'll hydrate along the way whether it be bringing a drink with you or stopping at a shop to buy one for the next long run. Maybe you should consider bringing a sports drink with you on the next run so you can take sips as you go along.

There's no doubt that the current humidity will have an impact on your running. Lots of very experienced people on the logs are saying similar things.

I think 5 days between lsrs is fine now and again but try to stick to 6 or 7 most weeks. If you're not well recovered in 5 days though don't push it.

Nicsx

Did 17m this morning with YourPaceOrMine. It was quite warm so flew through my bottle of water & stopped after maybe 11 miles to buy another. YourPaceOrMine had Lucozade Sport during the run & ate a banana at this point. We would usually be very evenly matched pace wise & stamina wise I would say, however, today at the end she felt like she could continue whereas I feel like a couple of knee replacements wouldn't go amiss!

I guess my question is - do I need to start thinking about fuelling on any run longer than 15/16 miles? And if so, should I experiment with gels &/or switch from water to Lucozade or just bring a banana out with me? Thanks in advance.

JMSE

havent been involved on here for about two weeks, been plodding on with 5/6 mile runs twice a week, 2 mile recovery jogs twice and a long run which is now up to 10 miles over 90mins. Not really following a plan, as work has me in a different place 5 days of the week so I just do what I can when I can. Been carrying on with a stubborn adductor thing now for a month in the left leg which I've now got in the right leg FFS too (this is as much work as it is run related). So since last Tuesday I havent done anything and wont until both of these have faded out. Am really keen to get out on the road day by day and find myself noticing all the joggers out there as I drive past now, wondering what their story is etc...

JohnDozer

Ososlo wrote: »

^^^^^ you have 8-10 on Saturday followed by 14 Sunday???? That seems very aggressive for a novice plan!!! Those mp miles might really take it out of you. Can you take a break between those two runs?
I guess it's set up that way for a reason though.

Just back in from the 8-10, managed 9 miles. 2 easy, 5 at MP, and 2 easy. Planned to go at 8mm for the MP miles as its halfway between the upper and lower predictions from McMillan so I figure its a good starting point. Managed to hit the paces but I think it took a little more than it should out of me so might trim it back by 15-20 seconds for now. The way I'm gonna approach the LSR is to get up early tomorrow as usual and see how I feel, if I feel ok I'll go ahead, if not I'll bump it to the evening to give a little more recovery time. I don't really want to drop any more sessions this early in the plan as Ive bumped a few already. We'll see tomorrow I guess.

adrian522 wrote: »

Well you could do 8 on one day and 12 the next if you wanted, but yeah it does look pretty tough. It does step back the following week though.

That looks an especially tough week, intervals on Monday(8 to 11 miles total), MLR Wedenesday(10-12),Tempo Friday and Long run Saturday. As well as the usual easy runs in between.

Let me know if you are on Strava too, I wouldn't mind keeping an eye on how you are doing.

True. I think I'll aim for the 14 and plot a route that allows me to bail out at 12 miles if I'm done. It is a tough week, but it looks like its the toughest of the first 5/6 weeks. I guess the tougher they are, the easier the 26.2 in October will be :D:D:D

We are already following each other on Strava, just PM'd you the ID as its a different name so you might not recognise it.

JohnDozer

I was also wondering on my run this morning.... IF we shouted loud enough from the Novices forum about a supply of some Boards AC gear being ordered, such as tshirts/ singlets, would the powers that be hear us? Is there any interest from others on this? Its been done a few times before, but I think last years order was aborted for some reason.

Ososlo

Nicsx wrote: »

Did 17m this morning with YourPaceOrMine. It was quite warm so flew through my bottle of water & stopped after maybe 11 miles to buy another. YourPaceOrMine had Lucozade Sport during the run & ate a banana at this point. We would usually be very evenly matched pace wise & stamina wise I would say, however, today at the end she felt like she could continue whereas I feel like a couple of knee replacements wouldn't go amiss!

I guess my question is - do I need to start thinking about fuelling on any run longer than 15/16 miles? And if so, should I experiment with gels &/or switch from water to Lucozade or just bring a banana out with me? Thanks in advance.

Hi. You two are flying it! Bear in mind that even though you're matched fitness wise, there will be days when one will feel better than the other for whatever reason. Do you plan on running together on the day?

Yes start experimenting with sports drink and gels. I think it's a good idea to take tiny sips of drink regularly as you go along rather than big gulps. Bring a couple of gels also on the next run. It's a good idea to practice taking these now as you don't know how your stomach will handle them and you might have to try different ones over the next few months to see what suits you. It's also a good idea practicing carrying them in gel belt or pockets. You'll probably bring 4/5/6 on the day so it's important to practice how you'll carry them.
I think I used to drink one 500ml bottle of Lucozade sports drink watered down per hour with a nunn tablet in it and one gel per hour and felt good on almost every run and always had plenty left in the tank at the end of a run. I didn't take gels on every run but always had a drink on anything longer than 13 miles especially when it was very warm.
Well done to both of you on the run again!

Ososlo

JohnDozer wrote: »

I was also wondering on my run this morning.... IF we shouted loud enough from the Novices forum about a supply of some Boards AC gear being ordered, such as tshirts/ singlets, would the powers that be hear us? Is there any interest from others on this? Its been done a few times before, but I think last years order was aborted for some reason.

I think it was Kurt Godel who got the last batch so you could try him by pm. It'd be great to have one for the day alright. A few last year got their usernames on their shirts and I spotted two on the day so that's another option. If you have a stupid username it might be a bit embarrassing though:)

vitani

I've been stockpiling sports drinks from whenever a race gives them out so it will be good to finally have a use for them. Only going to do 10m for my LSR this weekend as I missed my long run last week. Then it's the Fingal 10k next weekend.

frash

Did a 16 mile LSR run today with an average pace of 11:30

I did (probably stupidly) do the first 2 miles at PMP (10:20 min/mile) just to see if I could after the very slow recovery from last week's Clontarf Half.
Towards the end the last 2 miles were 12+ min including a very brief bit of walking

Also took a gel at 10 miles as an experiment - first time taking one with caffeine in it - went fine.

Anyway glad I got the distance in this weekend as there probably won't be a LSR next weekend.
This time next week I'll be on a ferry approaching the Bay of Biscay with 3 kids & a sea-sick wife!

NyOmnishambles

Good morning everyone

Did 13 miles today, went pretty well, included the hills in the Phoenix Prk and managed them whilst keeping a steady pace

This was a huge deal for me as the last time I ran around there was the 2012 Dublin Half and I had to walk up Military and something in my groin went twang and I had to waddle the last 3 mile home in pain

No such issues today thankfully, all went swimmingly, took is steady and did it in 2.25
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/539609993#

I thought I was being clever by buying a backpack with a water bladder and straw for today as when I did the 10 mile last week it was really warm and I needed water
I was happy with it as it wasn't heavy and was comfortable starting out, it then proceeded to empty itself over my back and legs and soaked my shoes over the first 3 miles so I ended up damp and with no water when I needed, will have a rethink on that one

AK333

Just back from my lsr

Had a busy week with visitors/work but did the 5 mile and hill reps on Wednesday, felt really good and strong. Had a negative split on the 5 mile, so was delighted with that run.

Decided to do the Boston HM route this morning with a pal and we brought gels along with us. They were PowerGels, Strawberry / Banana, they were delicious. I took one at 6km and one at 14km. Had my belt, with 10oz dioralyte in one and water in the other.

I had forgotten the hills on this route but was bopping along perfectly, with apart from the first km of 7.29, we were +/- 15 secs for every other km either side of 7.45km, lovely pacing, all going along smoothly and then it all fell apart. I'm diabetic and all of a sudden I got really dizzy, even walking became a problem but as we were on the Wood Rd, with no emergency lane, we had to keep moving. I got picked up, downed loads of water and a banana and felt much better. My skin was very salty, but I felt much better after the water.

Not sure what happened but it could have been dehydration. Did I take the gels too late? I was up at 5.30am, had my normal porridge, etc, thought I had covered all the bases. When I raced the Boston HM I collapsed at the end but again, put it down to diabetes and realised that a few jelly beans at 10 mile wasn't enough for me and that's why we took gels today.

Anyway, have a bit of a headache but feel fine now and packing for a week's holiday. I had the 10 min cold bath when I got home, really vitalises the legs. I'll do my recovery run tomorrow in Ardmore, should be lovely.

Nicsx

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi. You two are flying it! Bear in mind that even though you're matched fitness wise, there will be days when one will feel better than the other for whatever reason. Do you plan on running together on the day?

Yes start experimenting with sports drink and gels. I think it's a good idea to take tiny sips of drink regularly as you go along rather than big gulps. Bring a couple of gels also on the next run. It's a good idea to practice taking these now as you don't know how your stomach will handle them and you might have to try different ones over the next few months to see what suits you. It's also a good idea practicing carrying them in gel belt or pockets. You'll probably bring 4/5/6 on the day so it's important to practice how you'll carry them.
I think I used to drink one 500ml bottle of Lucozade sports drink watered down per hour with a nunn tablet in it and one gel per hour and felt good on almost every run and always had plenty left in the tank at the end of a run. I didn't take gels on every run but always had a drink on anything longer than 13 miles especially when it was very warm.
Well done to both of you on the run again!

Good point re one of us having a slight 'off' day. Did my recovery run this morning & I might postpone the knee replacements for a while yet. :-)

With regard to the gels - is there any particular brand I should look out for or is it a case of trial & error & just try to find the least disgusting ones? Thanks again.

LaHaine

Long runs are a challenge in this weather. I dont think ive ever sweated so much.

Think ill start doing them earlier.