DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

adrian522

You can upload custom workouts individually onto connect but there is no need for most runs on the plan I would say. You just do the miles at the prescribed pace!

Laois_Man

I went on a 4 mile run last night and finally, after a couple of sluggish runs, I actually felt energetic. At 9:36 pace, I probably ran a little too fast if anything.

I am thinking of changing around the order of my plan a bit. I try to get out every Saturday morning but I have a 4-year-old who expects his daddy to devote his Saturdays to him. He doesn't be impressed if he sees the running gear on coz he knows when I go running on a Saturday that I'll be gone for a long time these days. So I never actually get out until he's in bed. I can't even get up at stupid O'Clock to do it coz he comes into our room at 3am or 4am and goes back to sleep....on top of me. So I can't even get up without waking him and getting him all lively. So I am giving up even trying to run on Saturday mornings.

So I'm thinking if I have to start the LSR at around 9pm anyway, I might as well do it on Friday night so I don't have it hanging over me all day on Saturdays. Also, since I often take him for a swim in Kilkenny on Saturdays, the pool will help my recovery if I have done the LSR the previous night. So yeah, I think I'll change the order around.

Also, I have a lot of interior decorating to do in a few weeks :mad: and I am hoping I can figure out a way to work my running into all of that too. But to lessen the pain of having to do it, I'm counting the hours-upon-hours of painting as really good cross training!

Firedance

Just back from the rapid response clinic in Smithfield (they need to change their name ) Had my foot examined and xray'd and they're saying its not a stress fracture (I spoke to someone who said that its almost impossible to tell by xray unless you know what you're looking for and she assured me she knew). They have bandaged it though and told me no running for 2 weeks .

So, I may be out of the race although 2 weeks might not be too bad?? I can cycle & swim and do lots of pilates & foam rolling and I was looking up aqua jogging but can't seem to find anywhere that does it in Dublin. Am I being daft to think I can still do DCM 2014 being out for 2 weeks at this stage in the plan?

neilthefunkeone

Im going to move to the boards plan this week and stay true to it and see how that goes.. I'm ahead of the Hal plan and i want a bit of variety like strides and pmp miles.
Started last night with a 3 mile recovery, perfect after Fingal on Sunday.

Laois_Man

Firedance wrote: »

Just back from the rapid response clinic in Smithfield (they need to change their name ) Had my foot examined and xray'd and they're saying its not a stress fracture (I spoke to someone who said that its almost impossible to tell by xray unless you know what you're looking for and she assured me she knew). They have bandaged it though and told me no running for 2 weeks .

So, I may be out of the race although 2 weeks might not be too bad?? I can cycle & swim and do lots of pilates & foam rolling and I was looking up aqua jogging but can't seem to find anywhere that does it in Dublin. Am I being daft to think I can still do DCM 2014 being out for 2 weeks at this stage in the plan?

So sorry to hear that!

I'd say don't completely give up on it just yet. Do all your simming and cycling and stuff so that your fitness doesn't regress much and then just see where you are. You might be able to run again on the bank holiday weekend. There's a lot of people here who will go on holidays for a week or two soon and who'll probably do less work in the same timeframe than you will if you stick at it and they're not gonna give up on DCM. You might have to reevaluate your PMP/target time but I would encourage you to try it for a while before opting out yet

ecoli

Firedance wrote: »

Just back from the rapid response clinic in Smithfield (they need to change their name ) Had my foot examined and xray'd and they're saying its not a stress fracture (I spoke to someone who said that its almost impossible to tell by xray unless you know what you're looking for and she assured me she knew). They have bandaged it though and told me no running for 2 weeks .

So, I may be out of the race although 2 weeks might not be too bad?? I can cycle & swim and do lots of pilates & foam rolling and I was looking up aqua jogging but can't seem to find anywhere that does it in Dublin. Am I being daft to think I can still do DCM 2014 being out for 2 weeks at this stage in the plan?

I wouldn't panic just yet, main thing is allow it to heel and keep yourself ticking over with cross training.

I remember training for my first half and getting injured about 4 weeks out, missing pretty much two and a bit weeks of training (bar one or two foolish attempts to get back on my feet too quickly) kept up the cycling and swimming and found when I did get back I hadn't lost too much (or any) fitness at all.

vitani

Firedance wrote: »

Just back from the rapid response clinic in Smithfield (they need to change their name ) Had my foot examined and xray'd and they're saying its not a stress fracture (I spoke to someone who said that its almost impossible to tell by xray unless you know what you're looking for and she assured me she knew). They have bandaged it though and told me no running for 2 weeks .

So, I may be out of the race although 2 weeks might not be too bad?? I can cycle & swim and do lots of pilates & foam rolling and I was looking up aqua jogging but can't seem to find anywhere that does it in Dublin. Am I being daft to think I can still do DCM 2014 being out for 2 weeks at this stage in the plan?

As the others said, I wouldn't give up on it yet but I would make peace with the idea that it might not be the best idea for you to run a marathon this year. I'm telling people that I've signed up for DCM but that I'll only be running it if the training goes well. If I feel that the training is getting too much or that I'm on the verge of injury by continuing, I fully intend to call it quits and leave it for another year.

crisco10

If you do decide to keep training, try and map your running sessions to the bike by duration. i.e. if the running plan called for an LSR of approx 2.5hrs, get out on the bike for that time at the same "conversational" effort. It can be tough to not coast on the bike without the aid of a HRM.

That was the advice my physio gave me when I had ITB trouble last year. Now, the ITB didn't settle in time, but if it had I think i wouldn't have lost too much fitness.

Dub13

Today's session was Interval - 8 to 11 total. 3 x 2,000m at 10K pace, 3 minutes recovery. With the heat and me having raced Swords on Sun I knew I would have to change this a bit. I could either slow it down or have longer between sets.

I decided to go with longer between sets, so instead of the 3 min I left it 1k between sets. I wanted to keep the speed element so that's why I left it the 1k between sets.

I am wondering if I did the right thing, would I have been better off slowing it down or is it much of a muchness....?

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

Today's session was Interval - 8 to 11 total. 3 x 2,000m at 10K pace, 3 minutes recovery. With the heat and me having raced Swords on Sun I knew I would have to change this a bit. I could either slow it down or have longer between sets.

I decided to go with longer between sets, so instead of the 3 min I left it 1k between sets. I wanted to keep the speed element so that's why I left it the 1k between sets.

I am wondering if I did the right thing, would I have been better off slowing it down or is it much of a muchness....?

Being honest, 2 days after a 10k race you shouldn't have been doing that workout at all.

Dub13

menoscemo wrote: »

Being honest, 2 days after a 10k race you shouldn't have been doing that workout at all.

I did not race the 10k at full throttle, just used it as another speed session.

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

I did not race the 10k at full throttle, just used it as another speed session.

Ok sorry, it's just you said you raced on Sunday which normally would mean going flat out.
Just read back on your race report there. Did you deliberately hold back? Did you run it at Half Marathon effort?
I don't think the 17k LSR on Friday would have affected the time that much, definitely not ideal prep (though I agree with you as regards prioritising the Long run) but it would probably only have made a few seconds difference to be honest. I would have tended towards telling you to run the race as fast as you could on the day and ditch the speedwork for 3/4 days afterwards.

As it stands, assuming you deliberately ran the 10k at a tempo effort, no harm taking slightly longer recoveries, though I would have tended towards leaving the hard run off for another day and doing it as prescribed on the plan. In the grand scheme of things it won't make a massive amount of difference though as you still got in 6k worth of 10k effort which is the main thing.

Dub13

Yes I ran about 5k/6k at proper 10k pace and then slowed it a bit to about half pace, I probably could have ran it at fully throttle but was been cautious.

Sticking these 10k races into the plan is a bit of a pain, I was going to do the one out in dun laoghaire in a few weeks but I think I will skip that. I will just concentrate on the plan and the 10 mile and half that's left in the race serious.

menoscemo

Dub13 wrote: »

Yes I ran about 5k/6k at proper 10k pace and then slowed it a bit to about half pace, I probably could have ran it at fully throttle but was been cautious.

Sticking these 10k races into the plan is a bit of a pain, I was going to do the one out in dun laoghaire in a few weeks but I think I will skip that. I will just concentrate on the plan and the 10 mile and half that's left in the race serious.

I agree that you should race lightly as races really affect your plan.
Race when the plans says to do so and you won't have to be constantly juggling things about.

FWIW do you see why todays run (6k @ 10k pace with breaks) was unnecessary given that you already did 5-6k straight @10k pace on Sunday?
If you are going to add races into any plan, you must be prepared to ditch all sessions for several days before and after the race IMO.

Dub13

menoscemo wrote: »

FWIW do you see why todays run (6k @ 10k pace with breaks) was unnecessary given that you already did 5-6k straight @10k pace on Sunday?
If you are going to add races into any plan, you must be prepared to ditch all sessions for several days before and after the race IMO.

Yes I can see that, I took Sat off and did a very slow recovery run yesterday so assumed that was enough messing around with the plan. Looking back in hindsight I could have moved more around.

Ososlo

vitani wrote: »

As the others said, I wouldn't give up on it yet but I would make peace with the idea that it might not be the best idea for you to run a marathon this year. I'm telling people that I've signed up for DCM but that I'll only be running it if the training goes well. If I feel that the training is getting too much or that I'm on the verge of injury by continuing, I fully intend to call it quits and leave it for another year.

Really really good point made there vitani and something I think everyone should have at the back of their minds at all times between now and Oct 27th.
As the great man himself says "What's another year?"
Your running 'career' 'journey' whatever, should mean a lot more to you all than just DCM 2014. At the end of the day it's just one race.

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

Really really good point made there vitani and something I think everyone should have at the back of their minds at all times between now and Oct 27th.
As the great man himself says "What's another year?"
Your running 'career' 'journey' whatever, should mean a lot more to you all than just DCM 2014. At the end of the day it's just one race.

yes that's very true, there are other marathons and I'm working on a plan B at the moment, while I'd love to do DCM this year, and I wanted Dublin to be my first as I'd have lots of family/friend support, I'd also love to do my best when I do run one and that's not going to be the case now, I will see how I am in 2 weeks and decide then. In the meantime keep up the super running folks!

crisco10

Another Tuesday, another LSR done. 18 miles and I threw in some hills in Killiney and Fosters Avenue to try and get used to steep hills on tired legs. Also brought some water with me for the first time...not sure if it helped but it was nice!

I have a (long) question regarding my training plans for the next few weeks given that I'm doing the Rock'n'roll half on 4th August.

So whats in the plan for next week is:
Monday 28th: Easy 4m
Tuesday 39th: LSR 18m
Weds 30th: Recovery Run
Thursday 31st: Tag Rugby & 3m easy
Friday 1st : Rest/Recovery Run depending on mood
Saturday 2nd: 8 mile pace
Sunday 3rd: Rest

The week after I have sort nothing in the plan, i just "blocked" off the week for the HM on Monday.

Then the week after the HM is something similar to the above training week.

I really have no clue how to adjust the weeks before and after to suit the HM, (which I would like to race). I assume I'd need to at least tone down one or both of the LSRs? But they are 6 and 8 days away from the HM which is a long time too?
I'm also guessing the Saturday 2nd pace session will become an easy run.

Last year, I screwed myself over by doing too much training around races which is what I want to avoid but I also don't want to slacken off too much either. Oh the tightropes!!

KillianByrne

6m speed session done.
1m w/u
3 x 1m @7.48 w/800 jogs
1m c/d

Possibly too soon for this after Fingal given posts above but targets hit. Felling really good after that, the weather makes a difference but I'm beginning to like these sessions now I know that theres not much to be scared of in them.

Tigerandahalf

Did a LSR of 27km on Saturday with a 5km recovery run on Sunday. Took Monday off as usual (one of two rest days for me). Last night I did a 'progressive' 10km, started off very easy as my legs were tight and sore especially my heels and achilles. Thought I would have to pack it in after 5km but gradually my legs loosened and I was able to pick up the pace for a bit before slowing down again. Finished with core strengthening exercises.
Feeling pretty tired these days. Think I might have a bit of a head cold.
I'm not doing intervals for any of my sessions, just doing a fast tempo 8k session once a week. Running 5 days out of 7 at the moment. I also try to get in a swim on an off day.
How are people faring with their weight? Are you losing kilos with the training?

Laois_Man

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

How are people faring with their weight? Are you losing kilos with the training?

I hit a plateu weight wise for a good long while - but the pounds have been falling off again since my LSRs went above 10 or 11 miles.

I actually have to go out and buy a pile of new shirts for work this weekend coz the ones I have are all feeling a bit too big on me now!

Tigerandahalf

Laois_Man wrote: »

I actually have to go out and buy a pile of new shirts for work this weekend coz the ones I have are all feeling a bit too big on me now!

That is not a bad thing. I have plateaued a bit as well. I lost about 10kg after first starting running regularly every week. I think I need to shed 2 or 3 more kilos to bring down times. I think with the core strengthening (doing chin ups, push ups etc) muscle is being built up so it keeps your weight up.

MKDTH

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

How are people faring with their weight? Are you losing kilos with the training?

I lost about 10lb in the first six weeks of running and am now staying around the same weight 4 weeks later.
I'm telling myself that muscle weighs more than fat so i assume this is the reason.

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

Another Tuesday, another LSR done. 18 miles and I threw in some hills in Killiney and Fosters Avenue to try and get used to steep hills on tired legs. Also brought some water with me for the first time...not sure if it helped but it was nice!

I have a (long) question regarding my training plans for the next few weeks given that I'm doing the Rock'n'roll half on 4th August.

Monday 28th: Easy 4m (fine)
Tuesday 39th: LSR 18m (short and easy, maybe 5,6 miles max)
Weds 30th: Recovery Run (easy and short)
Thursday 31st: Tag Rugby & 3m easy (careful of injury with the tag!!!)
Friday 1st : Rest/Recovery Run depending on mood (yes)
Saturday 2nd: 8 mile pace (No pace run. Short and easy)
Sunday 3rd: Rest (or 2-3 miles very easy/recovery with a few strides)
Monday 4th: RACE (I'd personally add in 2 miles warm/up and same cool/down to bring up the mileage closer to that of previous lsr but lessen this if you think it's too much. If you do the extra miles do them recovery pace or slower)
Tuesday: Recovery
Wednesday: Easy
Thursday: Easy
Friday: Easy
Saturday: Easy
Sunday: lsr if recovered but maybe leave until Monday/Tuesday. (it depends on the rate of your recovery. You might not be sufficiently recovered so no harm leaving it a few more days, play that one by ear and listen closely to your bod)

Back to plan


The week after I have sort nothing in the plan, i just "blocked" off the week for the HM on Monday.

Then the week after the HM is something similar to the above training week.

I really have no clue how to adjust the weeks before and after to suit the HM, (which I would like to race). I assume I'd need to at least tone down one or both of the LSRs? But they are 6 and 8 days away from the HM which is a long time too?
I'm also guessing the Saturday 2nd pace session will become an easy run.

Last year, I screwed myself over by doing too much training around races which is what I want to avoid but I also don't want to slacken off too much either. Oh the tightropes!!

Hi there crisco
I've put my suggestions in bold above. That's what I'd do in your position. You want to be really fresh for that half marathon and give it your best shot. It'll give you a really good idea of where you're currently at regarding DCM and marathon pace etc if you race it properly. Lots of slow easy runs in the lead up but nothing too taxing. Maybe a medium length run but I wouldn't do anything more than 6-8 on the Tuesday and very easy.
You can't really plan the recovery after the race until you see how you feel but more than likely you'll need 5 - 7 days to recover fully.

neilthefunkeone

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

How are people faring with their weight? Are you losing kilos with the training?

I lost about 8 kgs last year working through the Dublin race series.. Was in Thailand then in November and got suit made up.. Slim fitting.

Went to wear it for the first time last week and its HUGE on me! I'm around the same weight but i guess i've swapped muscle for belly!!

ecoli

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

I lost about 8 kgs last year working through the Dublin race series.. Was in Thailand then in November and got suit made up.. Slim fitting.

Went to wear it for the first time last week and its HUGE on me! I'm around the same weight but i guess i've swapped muscle for belly!!

Fair play on the weight loss.

I think you highlighted a major point that people tend to forget when checking the scales, muscle is more dense than fat so will weigh more, while the scales may not change the difference in body composition can be huge.

crisco10

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi there crisco
I've put my suggestions in bold above. That's what I'd do in your position. You want to be really fresh for that half marathon and give it your best shot. It'll give you a really good idea of where you're currently at regarding DCM and marathon pace etc if you race it properly. Lots of slow easy runs in the lead up but nothing too taxing. Maybe a medium length run but I wouldn't do anything more than 6-8 on the Tuesday and very easy.
You can't really plan the recovery after the race until you see how you feel but more than likely you'll need 5 - 7 days to recover fully.

I wish I could thank you twice for this! It all seems so obvious when you write it out like that...but could I have done it myself???...no..!

Thanks again; seems very reasonable.

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

I wish I could thank you twice for this! It all seems so obvious when you write it out like that...but could I have done it myself???...no..!

Thanks again; seems very reasonable.

No problem at all. It's good to get an outside perspective sometimes to confirm what you know yourself already.

Main thing is:Taper well, Race optimally and Recover well.

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Hi there crisco
I've put my suggestions in bold above. That's what I'd do in your position. You want to be really fresh for that half marathon and give it your best shot. It'll give you a really good idea of where you're currently at regarding DCM and marathon pace etc if you race it properly. Lots of slow easy runs in the lead up but nothing too taxing. Maybe a medium length run but I wouldn't do anything more than 6-8 on the Tuesday and very easy.
You can't really plan the recovery after the race until you see how you feel but more than likely you'll need 5 - 7 days to recover fully.

I'd actually take a slightly different approach but would call on other opinions also. Remembering that DCM is goal I would just drop 8 mile pace run and either do short easy run or some cross training. There should be plenty time between LSR and race to recover. For following week the race would take place of LSR and just keep runs easy for remainder of week.

Ososlo

RedRunner wrote: »

I'd actually take a slightly different approach but would call on other opinions also. Remembering that DCM is goal I would just drop 8 mile pace run and either do short easy run or some cross training. There should be plenty time between LSR and race to recover. For following week the race would take place of LSR and just keep runs easy for remainder of week.

I would have said that if the lsr was on the weekend but as it's Tuesday I would personally find that too close to the race. Good to get other opinions from those more experienced though.