DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

I would have said that if the lsr was on the weekend but as it's Tuesday I would personally find that too close to the race. Good to get other opinions from those more experienced though.

Maybe bring the LSR forward to Monday and drop the pace run.

Ososlo

RedRunner wrote: »

Maybe bring the LSR forward to Monday and drop the pace run.

I defo think he should drop the pace run the week of the race. Ideally if doing the lsr, the Sat or Sun would be best IMO. Monday at very latest. I'd really error on side of caution during Race Week due to crisco's injury history/concerns.

'race-week' meaning the 7 days before the race

crisco10

Appreciate both of your input....the goal is DCM but at the same time I am aware that my mileage is quite good so far...If it weren't for the HM, I could be doing a 20 miler in early August.

Unfortunately, I think I won't be able to the LSR on Monday so might compromise and do an exceedingly gentle 10 mile LSR on Tuesday and leave it there.

Agree the pace run has no place in a race week.

RedRunner

Ososlo wrote: »

I defo think he should drop the pace run the week of the race. Ideally if doing the lsr, the Sat or Sun would be best IMO. Monday at very latest. I'd really error on side of caution during Race Week due to crisco's injury history/concerns.

'race-week' meaning the 7 days before the race

I agree. 7 days gap is better. Just checked my own log for London plan and I did a 22 mile run with 10 steady 7 days before Bohermeen HM and that was my best race of year so far. I appreciate though crisco has some injury history and you are more in tune with your undergrads than I am. ;-).

aquinn

Oh am I happy this evening. HM Distance done in 2hrs so delighted as Garmin also had that it was 23degrees. Had a great first flat 6 miles as went up the seafront into the breeze. Turned inland and 7-9 I'd no shade or breeze so that was tough.
Have checked and I don't even have any welts tonight and have all toenails. Also had my first strawberry protein shake, it wasn't bad. Thankfully I had explained to the young lad as I fished out my sweaty coins from my back pocket that I'd just run 13 miles as when I left the shop I noticed that I'd fantastic and very obvious sweaty boob marks, deadly.
My stomach does feel a bit sick but that I presume is because I haven't eaten and need more water.
Stats:
1 8:41.5 1.00 8:41
2 8:47.0 1.00 8:47
3 9:16.0 1.00 9:16
4 9:14.3 1.00 9:14
5 9:26.0 1.00 9:26
6 9:17.3 1.00 9:17
7 9:05.9 1.00 9:06
8 9:14.8 1.00 9:14
9 9:09.4 1.00 9:09
10 9:00.8 1.00 9:01
11 9:10.1 1.00 9:10
12 9:08.9 1.00 9:09
13 9:36.7 1.00 9:37
14 :51.8 0.10 8:40
Summary 2:00:00.5 13.10 9:10

Ok so here is the question bit. I'm entering the marathon tomorrow. What time finish would be recommended? I started to struggle and get sore at Mile 12 so didn't push to 14 or 15. Would I be ok to think that I'd finish in the 4.15 or earlier?

Thanks as always.

adrian522

12 Miles done as a "MLR". Tough going, but the real sign will be how I'm feeling for tomorrow's run as in the past I've always had either a rest day or a recovery day after a run of this distance.

Ososlo

aquinn wrote: »

Oh am I happy this evening. HM Distance done in 2hrs so delighted as Garmin also had that it was 23degrees. Had a great first flat 6 miles as went up the seafront into the breeze. Turned inland and 7-9 I'd no shade or breeze so that was tough.
Have checked and I don't even have any welts tonight and have all toenails. Also had my first strawberry protein shake, it wasn't bad. Thankfully I had explained to the young lad as I fished out my sweaty coins from my back pocket that I'd just run 13 miles as when I left the shop I noticed that I'd fantastic and very obvious sweaty boob marks, deadly.
My stomach does feel a bit sick but that I presume is because I haven't eaten and need more water.
Stats:
1 8:41.5 1.00 8:41
2 8:47.0 1.00 8:47
3 9:16.0 1.00 9:16
4 9:14.3 1.00 9:14
5 9:26.0 1.00 9:26
6 9:17.3 1.00 9:17
7 9:05.9 1.00 9:06
8 9:14.8 1.00 9:14
9 9:09.4 1.00 9:09
10 9:00.8 1.00 9:01
11 9:10.1 1.00 9:10
12 9:08.9 1.00 9:09
13 9:36.7 1.00 9:37
14 :51.8 0.10 8:40
Summary 2:00:00.5 13.10 9:10

Ok so here is the question bit. I'm entering the marathon tomorrow. What time finish would be recommended? I started to struggle and get sore at Mile 12 so didn't push to 14 or 15. Would I be ok to think that I'd finish in the 4.15 or earlier?

Thanks as always.

Yes I think you could go for sub 4:15 if you get all your weekly mileage in and the lsrs. However, I think you're doing these long runs a bit fast. No reason you can't aim for a 4 hour marathon (or a bit faster) going on your previous race times. But I'd be bringing the lsr pace to nearer 10min/mile to be honest and you might feel a bit better after and during them.

aquinn

Thanks Ososlo, I kept slowing my pace but now will aim for the 10 min mile as wasn't sure. I enjoyed the majority of this run but legs and back started to hurt at 12. Did 3 Monday and 4 Tuesday so will go easy the rest of the week.

vitani

Moving everything forward by a day this week. That said, last night's easy 4 mile run turned into over 5 miles because I was enjoying it way too much to turn around and go home. Legs were still a bit stiff for the first mile and a half after Sunday's race but they soon loosened out. Finished it at PMP.

adrian522

Got my 6 easy miles in today. Tough going at times as there are parts of the Phoenix park with no shade whatsoever.

I was glad of a nice drink of water at the end of it.

Saw this on Twitter earlier....

You know you are a runner when....

AuldManKing

Hi all, I'm on holidays at the moment, so if anyone has any questions for me, pm me.
I'll check in when I can, but WiFi isn't the best.

AuldManKing

Ososlo wrote: »

I defo think he should drop the pace run the week of the race. Ideally if doing the lsr, the Sat or Sun would be best IMO. Monday at very latest. I'd really error on side of caution during Race Week due to crisco's injury history/concerns.

'race-week' meaning the 7 days before the race

I would 100% agree with ososlo on her advice.

RR: your advice holds up a lot, but in this case with any injury concerns, less maybe better.

neilthefunkeone

Was called by work at 5am this morning.. 15 minutes issue resolved.. So fully awake i thought id get a few easy miles in.. So much more pleasant around my area at that time with little or no traffic..

A few other runners out with the little nod as i passed. Is that the nod of ' i see your up a crazy 'o clock too'!

yaboya1

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

A few other runners out with the little nod as i passed. Is that the nod of ' i see your up a crazy 'o clock too'!

It's a mutual thing. What's passing through their mind as they nod is:
"I know I'm a nutcase, but I see you are too. Hello "

Beef

yaboya1 wrote: »

It's a mutual thing. What's passing through their mind as they nod is:
"I know I'm a nutcase, but I see you are too. Hello "

I think it's more, "All those eejits in bed don't know what they're missing, and we're in on a big secret". Morning running is not for everyone but on a good clear morning with no traffic around it's the best thing in the world.

YourPaceOrMine

18 mile lsr today with Nicxs. Set off at 7.30 this morning, not a great run for me, various reasons...I struggled for the last hour but managed to get there in the end. The advantages of having a running buddy, they won't let you get the bus home! Step back next week, looking forward to that

ecoli

YourPaceOrMine wrote: »

18 mile lsr today with Nicxs. Set off at 7.30 this morning, not a great run for me, various reasons...I struggled for the last hour but managed to get there in the end. The advantages of having a running buddy, they won't let you get the bus home! Step back next week, looking forward to that

This is a great point.

There is a thread which has been used in the past (in particular with runners in the Novice threads) that might be of some use (and is in need of a bit of a revival at this stage)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58403098

Sauve

Did fartlek as a bit of speed training last night.

4 min @ marathon pace
3 min recovery
3 min @ half marathon pace
2 min recovery
2 min @ 10k pace
1 min recovery
1 min @ 5k pace
4 min recovery

Did that twice, then two miles of a cooldown.
Painful, but it's good craic to do, and the segments are nice and short so nothing really drags.

Rest day today and I'm basking in sitting on my ass drinking tea :cool:

adrian522

Got out for my M-Pace Tempo this evening, perfect weather and 40 mins at M-Pace in the bank.

Now for 14 miles in the morning.

Laois_Man

I took a day off work at short notice today and decided to head off and do my 15 mile LSR this morning, .....(Monte) Carlow has been the hottest part of the country for 3 days in a row now. The temperature reading in the car was 28 degrees at 10:20 am just before I started :eek:. I wasn't sure it was a good idea but I went ahead and I am so glad now that I did and it's over. But bhoy was it the toughest run of all time or what. Really struggled over the last 3 or 4 miles but got there in the end. Kept the pace fairly slow throughout - averaged 10:50. I was never so happy to get home from a run in my life - nearly fell into the fridge. Then a paddle around the learner pool in Kilkenny with little Laois_Man was fantabulous afterwards!!

I wonder is there any added benefit to running in heat like that? I'm thinking there must be. When you see all the Premier League clubs heading off to Austria, Sardinia etc for "warm weather training", there must be some science behind it!

This week I tried the Viper gels. I took one caffeine one just before I started and took another non-caffeine one after an hour an 20 minutes. I THINK I felt a boost from that about 10 minutes after taking it...but it was a fairly short lived boost if any. I had another caffeine one with me but when I went to take it, the blasted thing was empty. Dunno what happened there. I think I might try both the Kinetica and Viper gels again in my next 2 LSRs and then decide which ones to use (or maybe decide not to bother at all)

I bought this Water Belt the other day. Tried it for the first time today - Love it. Great investment. It got me through it today big time!! Must shove a few jelly babies into the pocket of it in another LSR and see what they do for me

The bad news is I am feeling that old twinge in my right hamstring again. And a bit of a worryingly familiar pain in my left hip. Bit of stretching and foam rolling is in order tonight and again in the morning me thinks. Not too worried.....yet!

AK333

Laois_Man wrote: »

I bought this Water Belt the other day. Tried it for the first time today - Love it. Great investment. It got me through it today big time!! Must shove a few jelly babies into the pocket of it in another LSR and see what they do for me

This is the belt I used on a few long runs recently and its a great little belt, but I think the bottles are a bit small, only 10oz each, so I would recommend putting a bigger bottle out on your run about half way round - and decanting it into the small ones. its a very stable belt, doesn't "jiggle" about when running.

Unfortunately, I am the first Novice to withdraw from the DCM this year. Its going to take me longer to recover from my recent operation and I'm not allowed to run. I can't do my local Boston HM either but I had signed up for the Dublin Bay 10K on 4th August and I'm going up there to visit relatives, so I will do this one and hopefully 5k and 10k races later in the year.

Good luck to you all, thanks for all the info and I wish you all the best. Hopefully I can try again next year.

laura_ac3

AK333 wrote: »

This is the belt I used on a few long runs recently and its a great little belt, but I think the bottles are a bit small, only 10oz each, so I would recommend putting a bigger bottle out on your run about half way round - and decanting it into the small ones. its a very stable belt, doesn't "jiggle" about when running.

Unfortunately, I am the first Novice to withdraw from the DCM this year. Its going to take me longer to recover from my recent operation and I'm not allowed to run. I can't do my local Boston HM either but I had signed up for the Dublin Bay 10K on 4th August and I'm going up there to visit relatives, so I will do this one and hopefully 5k and 10k races later in the year.

Good luck to you all, thanks for all the info and I wish you all the best. Hopefully I can try again next year.

Sorry to hear that AK333, best of luck with the recovery and good luck whenever you do get back to the running.

NyOmnishambles

Sorry to hear that AK333, best of luck with the recovery best to do as instructed, there is always next year

15 miles this morning, nice day for it, didn't have my usual route in the park as there 5K on around that section, twas grand though

I didn't get any running in this week for numerous reasons, work, not sleeping because of the heat etc, lots of excuses so I was worried that today would be a huge struggle but I felt refreshed and was able to plod along so that is a lesson for the taper

I had a couple of pitstops to get gel into me but aside from junctions there was no stopping and I kept up a nice consistent pace up until I left the park and hit traffic, it was a real struggle to get back up to pace after and it I felt shattered after stoppnig at lights but prevailed to the 15 mile mark

Officially my longest distance, today is a good day

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/549636572#

KillianByrne

16m LSR this morning cut to 14due to some unforeseen hills on the route. Did 10miles on my own to start and joined up with a running group for the last 6 encouragement.

Ended up going up Killiney hill. I'm taking the 3miles at a 50% gradient* as a balance for the 2miles lost!

But any day you run a half marathon in training can't be that bad.

*may be exaggerated

adrian522

14 Mile LSR done eventually.

It was a nice route up through Marlay Park, and back via Rathfarnham. As usual I finished convinced I could not go another mile. However I felt the same after 12 miles last week, so hopefully I'll find a way to get through the long runs to come.

I'm not sure how I'll do the last 4 at M-Pace though.

Anyway one run at a time, job done for this week. 53 Miles on the board.

laura_ac3

Bit of a disjointed week this week. Had planned to take Monday off after the fingal 10k due to a hamstring twinge. Seemed to help, along with the foam rolling, and was much improved by Tuesday. Was really in two minds about whether to leave it another day to give it a full chance to recover or whether to go for a run.

Decided to be extra cautious and leave it. Possibly too cautious but this hamstring was a nightmare a few months ago so didn't want to rush it. Plus I had a football match on Wednesday I didn't want to rule myself out of. I wouldn't usually put the football before the running in a situation like that but we were already short players this week, which isn't a normal occurrence, and missing it probably would have meant giving a walkover. Played, was tough in the heat though, and everything with the hamstring was fine so glad I took the extra day. Plus we won the match! I could have played in goal had the hamstring still not been 100% on the night and not ready for running.

Had a lovely pace run of 6 miles then Thursday evening. Went out late so wasn't as hot, really enjoyable out the clontarf seafront and down the bull wall. Pace, and hamstring, went well so was happy with this.

Friday - rest day.

Got up at 6 this morning to fit in my Lsr of 12 miles. Wasn't sure setting the alarm last night if I'd have the discipline to actually get up but knowing it would be tough to fit in later helped drag me out. Went much better than my 11 miler a couple of weeks ago. Still difficult at the end but kept the pace slower throughout. Legs felt very heavy initially and at mile 3 I was worried if I'd be able to see it out. Loosened out though and by the half way mark they were feeling fresher.

Low mileage week in the end but looking forward to getting back to normal now. Not going to chase the lost miles from this week, just continue on. Am a bit apprehensive about finding more miles in the legs for next weeks lsr as I was ready to finish by the time I got the 12 done today. Getting serious now just take it one run at a time I suppose!

Anyway that's my weekly ramble....enjoy the rest of the weekend

Murph_D

KillianByrne wrote: »

16m LSR this morning cut to 14due to some unforeseen hills on the route. Did 10miles on my own to start and joined up with a running group for the last 6 encouragement.

Ended up going up Killiney hill. I'm taking the 3miles at a 50% gradient* as a balance for the 2miles lost!

But any day you run a half marathon in training can't be that bad.

*may be exaggerated

Nice going K - but I think you should be hanging on for the full distance, hills or no. Running hills is pretty important preparation for the big day after all.

MKDTH

Laois_Man wrote: »

I wonder is there any added benefit to running in heat like that? I'm thinking there must be. When you see all the Premier League clubs heading off to Austria, Sardinia etc for "warm weather training", there must be some science behind it!

I had the same theory yesterday afternoon, so on a day off from work went out at 2pm in the scorching sun thinking i would sweat more and thus get more out of the run due to the heat making it harder. It was a nice slow pace though so i'm still ready for my ten miles on Sunday morning maybe before it gets too warm!

RedRunner

adrian522 wrote: »

14 Mile LSR done eventually.

It was a nice route up through Marlay Park, and back via Rathfarnham. As usual I finished convinced I could not go another mile. However I felt the same after 12 miles last week, so hopefully I'll find a way to get through the long runs to come.

I'm not sure how I'll do the last 4 at M-Pace though.

Anyway one run at a time, job done for this week. 53 Miles on the board.

Well done. Very good week. Next week is a new week and you'll be getting stronger with each week you complete so don't worry too much in advance of other LSRs. It's all about gradual progression. You'll find a way to get through them all. I'm sure of it.

RedRunner

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Bit of a disjointed week this week. Had planned to take Monday off after the fingal 10k due to a hamstring twinge. Seemed to help, along with the foam rolling, and was much improved by Tuesday. Was really in two minds about whether to leave it another day to give it a full chance to recover or whether to go for a run.

Decided to be extra cautious and leave it. Possibly too cautious but this hamstring was a nightmare a few months ago so didn't want to rush it. Plus I had a football match on Wednesday I didn't want to rule myself out of. I wouldn't usually put the football before the running in a situation like that but we were already short players this week, which isn't a normal occurrence, and missing it probably would have meant giving a walkover. Played, was tough in the heat though, and everything with the hamstring was fine so glad I took the extra day. Plus we won the match! I could have played in goal had the hamstring still not been 100% on the night and not ready for running.

Had a lovely pace run of 6 miles then Thursday evening. Went out late so wasn't as hot, really enjoyable out the clontarf seafront and down the bull wall. Pace, and hamstring, went well so was happy with this.

Friday - rest day.

Got up at 6 this morning to fit in my Lsr of 12 miles. Wasn't sure setting the alarm last night if I'd have the discipline to actually get up but knowing it would be tough to fit in later helped drag me out. Went much better than my 11 miler a couple of weeks ago. Still difficult at the end but kept the pace slower throughout. Legs felt very heavy initially and at mile 3 I was worried if I'd be able to see it out. Loosened out though and by the half way mark they were feeling fresher.

Low mileage week in the end but looking forward to getting back to normal now. Not going to chase the lost miles from this week, just continue on. Am a bit apprehensive about finding more miles in the legs for next weeks lsr as I was ready to finish by the time I got the 12 done today. Getting serious now just take it one run at a time I suppose!

Anyway that's my weekly ramble....enjoy the rest of the weekend

Good stuff. Looks like you managed the hamstring issue well. Always listen to the body and you'll do well. You're right not to go chasing miles. One week at a time now and they'll fly by and you'll be surprised at the progress you make