DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

JohnDozer

Nothing major to report here... Into third day of holidays and the plan is suffering! Since last weekend been feeling very fatigued and aches and pains in the lower limbs, mainly both calves, but nothing suggesting injury so hopefully it improves. It's a combination of a heavy month at work trying to tidy up everything for two weeks off and the recent increase in mileage. And of course still working on slowing down the easy runs isn't helping full recovery either.

Last weeks plan was bumped around a it to suit the feeling of lethargy. Pushed the PMP session towards the end of the week as I hoped I'd feel better. Two easy days on Monday and Tuesday followed. Wednesdays MLR took all my mental strength to convince myself to do it. Chose a route I wasn't fully familiar with and this turned out to be an overgrown fishermans path covered with nettles out the back of the University of Limerick. Coupled with the heat that evening the whole run was a real struggle which hasn't happened me in a while. Got through it in the end and onwards and upwards. Easy run Thursday and PMP interval session planned for early Friday morning as flights were lunchtime so needed to get done. Up and out the door for 6am. Been doing my MP sessions lately on a shorter loop as I know then that one mile is slightly uphill and one is slightly downhill. Works for me anyway. Another guy was obviously doing something similar in the opposite direction so had a bit of craic with him
as we met in passing on three occasions and not many other souls were even awake and here you had two crazy f@&kers out doing laps, as echoed elsewhere on the forum.

Uneventful flights and drive from Frankfurt Hahn to the middle of the Black Forest. Up early Saturday morning for an easy run only to realise that this place is covered in hills, very little flat ground for miles! It's also not very runner friendly in terms of road running, some roads have footpaths, some don't! Loads and loads of trails which I explored on Sunday but not familiar enough with the area yet to go too far off te beaten track. Needless to say the LSR got dropped Sunday as I'm not a fan of loops and I have a major fear of getting lost due to my piss poor navigational skills. So... The plan is use this week for easyish running with hills, going to cover the four directions away from the town in exploring the area with a view to piecing together a nice LSR route for the weekend. I'll be familiar enough with the area the to fall nicely back into the plan from the weekend on.

This also works for me as I've found a 10k race about 40 minutes drive away from here on Wednesday. So I'm about to become an international athlete!!!! :-) along with the 4 mile PB from earlier in the month, my 10k PB also fits that category of being a bit soft, even with no specific training. It's around the 47 minute mark so there for the taking. I have one of 45:xx from the Clare 10k a few years ago but that was 0.15k short so I'm not really comfortable with that being my PB. Based on recent results sub 45 is achievable. If not, I have a 10k in limerick in mid August I have to do for work so this will be a good exercise no matter what way it works out.

I'm glad i started the plan two weeks early to allow for this kind of hiccup. Once I get out for an hour a day this week along with the 10k race I should be in a good position to pick up where I left off, and feeling refreshed to boot!

adrian522

Nice writeup there, enjoy the holiday.

I've a week booked off the week after the half marathon, not sure where I'll go, if anywhere, but it would be nice to go somewhere, et a good recovery week in as it is mostly easy runs that week anyway.

For myself, I had a bit of a nightmare of a day, I had planned to be up early for my run around 8, but couldn't sleep last night so ended up giving that a miss this morning. I was late for jury service so in my rush I must have left the keys in the lock of my bike this morning, the bike got robbed obviously, I'd no keys to get in to my house, so had to bus across town to the office, grab a spare set, then had to run home with my bag on my back, adding in the 10K Pace Intervals in Bushy Park en route. Then I arrive home nearly 4 hours after I'd planned it and my house alarm is going off.

For an awful moment I thought whoever had taken the bike had somehow figured out where I live also but it was just the water meter people I reckon.

Anyway the day is done now so hopefully nothing else will go wrong. Oh yeah, it's my birthday today too

JohnDozer

adrian522 wrote: »

Nice writeup there, enjoy the holiday.

I've a week booked off the week after the half marathon, not sure where I'll go, if anywhere, but it would be nice to go somewhere, et a good recovery week in as it is mostly easy runs that week anyway.

For myself, I had a bit of a nightmare of a day, I had planned to be up early for my run around 8, but couldn't sleep last night so ended up giving that a miss this morning. I was late for jury service so in my rush I must have left the keys in the lock of my bike this morning, the bike got robbed obviously, I'd no keys to get in to my house, so had to bus across town to the office, grab a spare set, then had to run home with my bag on my back, adding in the 10K Pace Intervals in Bushy Park en route. Then I arrive home nearly 4 hours after I'd planned it and my house alarm is going off.

For an awful moment I thought whoever had taken the bike had somehow figured out where I live also but it was just the water meter people I reckon.

Anyway the day is done now so hopefully nothing else will go wrong. Oh yeah, it's my birthday today too

What a day! I thought I had a few bad days in the last few weeks but that kinda puts them in perspective... Hope the sleep goes better tonight, and the running helps your sanity being maintained over the next few days!

adrian522

JohnDozer wrote: »

What a day! I thought I had a few bad days in the last few weeks but that kinda puts them in perspective... Hope the sleep goes better tonight, and the running helps your sanity being maintained over the next few days!

Thanks, I'm sure I'll sleep fine, I think last night was down to me being out drinking on the Saturday and subsequently having trouble sleeping the next night!

Dub13

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You are putting in some great mileage. I struggle to do more than 50k a week. Are you running every day or doubles or a long midweek run?

Cheers, doing the BAA Intermediate plan which does have high mileage. I was doing decent enough mileage before the plan started so was not a huge step up. Most weeks its 6 days running but you can run for the 7 days as I did this week, here is what I did..

Mon 8k Recovery
Tue 14k (3 x 2,000m at 10K pace, 1k recovery)
Wen 8k
Thur 16k ( with 2 x 15 minutes in the middle at marathon pace, 5 minutes recovery.)
Fri 8k
Sat 16k (with 30 to 40 minutes in the middle at marathon pace)
Sun 22k LSR

adrian522 wrote: »

Well there's 2 reasons to do your long run on Saturday, rest day Sunday, so few pints on Saturday night is not an issue and no pressure to cycle or do anything else really on a Sunday so it's a proper rest day.

I sure it was you who posted about shifting the BAA plan by a day for this. I considered this and it was a tough choice as it does have huge advantage's. However Monday for me in work can be crazy so I decided to leave it as is.

laura_ac3

adrian522 wrote: »

Nice writeup there, enjoy the holiday.

I've a week booked off the week after the half marathon, not sure where I'll go, if anywhere, but it would be nice to go somewhere, et a good recovery week in as it is mostly easy runs that week anyway.

For myself, I had a bit of a nightmare of a day, I had planned to be up early for my run around 8, but couldn't sleep last night so ended up giving that a miss this morning. I was late for jury service so in my rush I must have left the keys in the lock of my bike this morning, the bike got robbed obviously, I'd no keys to get in to my house, so had to bus across town to the office, grab a spare set, then had to run home with my bag on my back, adding in the 10K Pace Intervals in Bushy Park en route. Then I arrive home nearly 4 hours after I'd planned it and my house alarm is going off.

For an awful moment I thought whoever had taken the bike had somehow figured out where I live also but it was just the water meter people I reckon.

Anyway the day is done now so hopefully nothing else will go wrong. Oh yeah, it's my birthday today too

Sounds like a terrible day, and not a good way to spend a birthday. As a cyclist I feel your pain especially with the bike theft...infuriating. despite the bad day - happy birthday anyway!

ciaranmac

Finally got back on the road this evening after an 11 day rest due to a virus. Had no idea how much I'd have slipped backwards... but it wasn't as bad as I feared.

I went out nice and slow on a loop that I usually run 10k on, but took a short cut to skip the long hill climb in the middle. That worked out well, as I was heading for home it was getting dark and I felt good so I picked it up and did the last mile at 5k pace.

http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/551862001

Alan30

15 mile LSR done on Saturday evening. This was the first run in over 2 weeks that I even remotely enjoyed. Had being feeling very lethargic, legs felt heavy and every run was a chore. I am putting it down to the heat and 2 weeks of night shift. 2.2 mile recovery run to the swimming pool yesterday and now I feel ready to push on again from tomorrow.

ciaranmac

adrian522 wrote: »

Nice writeup there, enjoy the holiday.

I've a week booked off the week after the half marathon, not sure where I'll go, if anywhere, but it would be nice to go somewhere, et a good recovery week in as it is mostly easy runs that week anyway.

For myself, I had a bit of a nightmare of a day, I had planned to be up early for my run around 8, but couldn't sleep last night so ended up giving that a miss this morning. I was late for jury service so in my rush I must have left the keys in the lock of my bike this morning, the bike got robbed obviously, I'd no keys to get in to my house, so had to bus across town to the office, grab a spare set, then had to run home with my bag on my back, adding in the 10K Pace Intervals in Bushy Park en route. Then I arrive home nearly 4 hours after I'd planned it and my house alarm is going off.

For an awful moment I thought whoever had taken the bike had somehow figured out where I live also but it was just the water meter people I reckon.

Anyway the day is done now so hopefully nothing else will go wrong. Oh yeah, it's my birthday today too

That's a hell of a birthday

Tigerandahalf

Adrian Sorry to hear about the bike theft and the rough day. But bank it in the memory and when the pain hits in DCM, you'll drive through it no bother!
Congrats to all on the hard work so far. We're getting closer.

adrian522

Thanks lads and ladies, the bike doesn't bother me too much, I'll have to replace it though but it was probably in need of replacing anyway.

SeanPuddin

JohnDozer wrote: »

Chose a route I wasn't fully familiar with and this turned out to be an overgrown fishermans path covered with nettles out the back of the University of Limerick.

Is that the one behind Unigolf / old Dell, short bit down to the river? I run down it a lot, remember a time when it was a 6 foot wide path.

EggRih

Hi all, I'd like to squeeze in here too if you don't mind :P

Bit of background- 21 year old male, been running on and off (mainly off) since I was 16 in school.

Decided earlier this year that I would run the DCM to kind of give myself something to work towards. Of course, I went away for six weeks in June and July and did no running at all, but have been running regularly and consistently since then.

Now with the six weeks lost I'm not so sure if it will be wise for me to enter DCM in three months' time. I've been following the Boards Novice plan and find that I am keeping up just fine, though I have shortened the LSRs slightly for the moment. (Although I do feel I could do the LSRs as they are, I don't want my body to go into shock!)

Anyway, I've signed up for the dlr Bay 10k, the Frank Duffy 10 Mile and the Dublin Half-Marathon. I think I'm well capable of running these and I'll see how I am progressing in terms of DCM and make a decision in August/September

JohnDozer

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Is that the one behind Unigolf / old Dell, short bit down to the river? I run down it a lot, remember a time when it was a 6 foot wide path.

I'm not too sure to be honest. I normally do a 5/6 mile out and back from work in town which has me turning around out around the area they call 'The sandy'. It's pretty much where the loose gravel track ends which I think is around the back of the UL track. There is a gate here which goes into a field but it had a well worn trail and it is narrow, only one person wide. It follows the mulkear river for about two miles and you end up in what I think is UL bohs rugby pitch. Came home via road as I couldn't hack jumping over any more clumps of nettles. That sound familiar? If you can direct me towards a better loop I'd much appreciate.

SeanPuddin

JohnDozer wrote: »

I'm not too sure to be honest. I normally do a 5/6 mile out and back from work in town which has me turning around out around the area they call 'The sandy'. It's pretty much where the loose gravel track ends which I think is around the back of the UL track. There is a gate here which goes into a field but it had a well worn trail and it is narrow, only one person wide. It follows the mulkear river for about two miles and you end up in what I think is UL bohs rugby pitch. Came home via road as I couldn't hack jumping over any more clumps of nettles. That sound familiar? If you can direct me towards a better loop I'd much appreciate.

I find OpenStreetMaps (through mapmyrun create route) very good for paths and stuff around here. If I have you correctly I turn right at the gate. It is narrow and slightly overgrown but it is a short path up to a carpark and back of Plassey.

Basically the one here, beside Kilmurray Village up to Plassey Park Road via carpark.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6750/-8.5607

Hope it helps.

JohnDozer

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I find OpenStreetMaps (through mapmyrun create route) very good for paths and stuff around here. If I have you correctly I turn right at the gate. It is narrow and slightly overgrown but it is a short path up to a carpark and back of Plassey.

Basically the one here, beside Kilmurray Village up to Plassey Park Road via carpark.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6750/-8.5607

Hope it helps.

That's a handy app, nice one. Ya, we're on the same track, except I went straight on instead of turning right. With a little bit of maintenance the one I took could be a very nice running route, but I won't be doing it again without a fistful of dock leaves for the nettle stings!

SeanPuddin

JohnDozer wrote: »

That's a handy app, nice one. Ya, we're on the same track, except I went straight on instead of turning right. With a little bit of maintenance the one I took could be a very nice running route, but I won't be doing it again without a fistful of dock leaves for the nettle stings!

I'll see if a strongly worded letter can be written to someone for you

JohnDozer

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I'll see if a strongly worded letter can be written to someone for you

Aha. Not doubting your letter writing skills... But I doubt the Rapid Response Unit of Limerick City and County Council will be getting on it anytime soon. Unless we promise Willie an oul vote or two...

bucketybuck

A quick question for you all...

I see people saying that you should do the LSR miles 90 seconds slower than marathon pace, but what might that be in kms?

If I can do a pace of 6m30s per km, what pace should I be doing the LSR at?

JohnDozer

bucketybuck wrote: »

A quick question for you all...

I see people saying that you should do the LSR miles 90 seconds slower than marathon pace, but what might that be in kms?

If I can do a pace of 6m30s per km, what pace should I be doing the LSR at?

At a quick mental calculation (90/8 * 5) I would say anywhere in the region of 55-60 seconds slower would have you in the right pace zone. I stand to be corrected by those who know more though. There is a suggestion that it should be percentage based on your race times rather than the set rule you've identified.

hillsiderunner

I have been watching this thread over the last month, so time to introduce myself....

I am thinking of signing up for this year's DCM, but am holding off for another while to decide. I think i'll only want to do one full marathon in my life, so I want to try to make sure I'm in shape to do sub-4hr before I commit - otherwise it could lead to a marathon habit and I'm not sure I'm up for that ;-).

I've been a casual runner for about 12 years on-and-off, usually running a couple of half-marathons a year. Weekly mileage is usually between 15-25miles (the plan is usually up in the 20+ range, but I don't always achieve it). Also I tend to have the occasional missed-month of training .... Have been running slowish miles with half-marathon pace about 9min-miles, but this year have been trying to pick up the pace a bit. It has been fairly successful and I got my 10k below 50mins at the Fingal 10k recently (4minute PB). I will probably try another half-marathon in two weeks time on 9th August ... if I can bring that in under 1hr 50mins I think that'd give me hope I'm in shape to up my mileage.

To start the ball rolling, the last 4 weeks have had mileage of 21, 15, 27 and 26.
I am (should be) running something like the following:

Tuesday: 5x650 intervals with 1mile w/u, c/d
Thursday: either 5.5 hilly miles, OR 6 miles incl 4x1mile repeats
Saturday: Parkrun flat out OR 4 fast-ish miles
Sunday: long hilly run between 10-12 miles

I've actually achieved this over the past two weeks ;-), and the long run is now up to 12.5miles (although the long run has been pushed to Monday a couple of times). The plan would be to run similar for the next two weeks including the attempted half. After that I would increase my long-run to 14-15miles, and increase the length of the Thursday run as well (and maybe add an extra w/u, c/d to Tuesday). It doesn't look too far from what I see on the lighter full-marathon plans 2-3 months out.

If anyone thinks there are not enough 'easy' miles in my schedule, well, I've been running too many comfortable miles most of my running life. I'm trying to push myself a bit now and it does seem to be having some effect.

rockwell

SeanPuddin wrote: »

I find OpenStreetMaps (through mapmyrun create route) very good for paths and stuff around here. If I have you correctly I turn right at the gate. It is narrow and slightly overgrown but it is a short path up to a carpark and back of Plassey.

Basically the one here, beside Kilmurray Village up to Plassey Park Road via carpark.




@SEANPUDDIN and JohnDozer, good to see some fellow mid-west runners on here. UL riverbank is my running ground for mid week runs.

adrian522

Are there many of us doing the DLR Bay 10K? I'd be up for a few warm down miles afterwards if anyone else is doing something similar. Or even a coffee or something if a few were hanging around.

Ososlo

hillsiderunner wrote: »

To start the ball rolling, the last 4 weeks have had mileage of 21, 15, 27 and 26.
I am (should be) running something like the following:

Tuesday: 5x650 intervals with 1mile w/u, c/d
Thursday: either 5.5 hilly miles, OR 6 miles incl 4x1mile repeats
Saturday: Parkrun flat out OR 4 fast-ish miles
Sunday: long hilly run between 10-12 miles


If anyone thinks there are not enough 'easy' miles in my schedule, well, I've been running too many comfortable miles most of my running life. I'm trying to push myself a bit now and it does seem to be having some effect.

Welcome to the thread. What plan are you following? Looks pretty intense! I haven't seen many plans like it!! I know you're fairly experienced so can handle more intensity than a lot of us but I'd still be very careful as that's pretty much 4 hard sessions per week you got there:eek:
Unfortunately, whatever your level and experience, most marathon training involves lots and lots of easy miles. The marathon is a very different beast to any other race.

Ososlo

adrian522 wrote: »

Are there many of us doing the DLR Bay 10K? I'd be up for a few warm down miles afterwards if anyone else is doing something similar. Or even a coffee or something if a few were hanging around.

that's a great idea adrian!!!

scheister

looking at the Rock n Roll half next monday. i was thinking of running with the 2:15 pace group and consider it my LSR and have a rest day sunday. My plan for this weeks has a 14 mile lsr this week. Any thoughts??

Ososlo

scheister wrote: »

looking at the Rock n Roll half next monday. i was thinking of running with the 2:15 pace group and consider it my LSR and have a rest day sunday. My plan for this weeks has a 14 mile lsr this week. Any thoughts??

Absolutely perfect! I presume you mean you'll be racing it properly as a half marathon race?
Best of luck!!!

scheister

Ososlo wrote: »

Absolutely perfect! I presume you mean you'll be racing it properly as a half marathon race?
Best of luck!!!

If my maths is correct 2.15 marathon is about 10.30 a mile pace so would fit in nice as my standard LRS rather then running it as a half marathon.

Ososlo

scheister wrote: »

If my maths is correct 2.15 marathon is about 10.30 a mile pace so would fit in nice as my standard LRS rather then running it as a half marathon.

Why would you not race it properly rather than use it as a training run?

hillsiderunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Welcome to the thread. What plan are you following? Looks pretty intense! I haven't seen many plans like it!! I know you're fairly experienced so can handle more intensity than a lot of us but I'd still be very careful as that's pretty much 4 hard sessions per week you got there:eek:
Unfortunately, whatever your level and experience, most marathon training involves lots and lots of easy miles. The marathon is a very different beast to any other race.

It's a "hillsiderunner" plan :-) which has grown out of other plans and what's available in my local area (intervals on Tues evening, Parkrun Saturday) .... but don't worry, I never do 4 hard sessions! Often I fail to do do 4 sessions of any kind ... :-/

It's not as tough as it first seems because on the Thursdays I have only been doing the harder option (the mile repeats) at most once every 3 weeks and will continue with that. Same for Saturday - I've been getting to Parkrun at most 1-week-in-the-month ... and do a few "fast-but-not-flat-out" miles the other weeks. Fast for me is only about 8:10 pace anyway (Parkrun would be about 7:40 pace).

I don't ever do more than 1 of the 2 hard versions of Thurs/Saturday any week either.

The long runs are not proper hill-running, just running in Edinburgh which tends to be undulating - I often use Holyrood Park. And some of them are less hilly than others. I'm finding hilly runs and long-runs a good bit easier lately; I was away on a week's holiday of long-distance cycling about 6 weeks ago, and when I came back I noticed an improvement in my endurance.

My biggest problem is (not) being consistent with my training.... that's why I'm not keen to add a 5th day of easy miles - I know I won't get to it.

Anyway, it could be that the half-marathon in two weeks turns out to be a slow one, in which case I'll be revising the hope of DCM 2014. Not to mention the question of whether I can drag myself out of the leaba tomorrow morning to do the intervals I had to skip tonight :-)!! (I postponed "Sunday"'s long run to last night, so I skipped intervals tonight)