DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

laura_ac3

KillianByrne wrote: »

I signed up last week, heard lots of good things about it; I like the idea of pacing it actually, and the pacers being easily identified with marathon times. i.e: I will probably follow the 4hr pacer

Also and a purely selfish reason, with my MIL living in Ballinasloe it means we can visit, without me actually having to be there!

Well that's as good a reason as any yeah I saw something about the pacers. I was thinking of using it as my lsr, maybe with a few pmp at the end but could review that closer depending on how training is going and my other 20 miler. I heard good things about it myself and the feedback of people using it as dcm prep seemed positive from what I read previously.

Think I'll look into a bit more, worth considering I feel.

Laois_Man

Pacing Mule wrote: »

the chi running course I attended

I do follow your log and I have been wondering about this chi running course since long before you mentioned it. How much of your faster running do you put down to this course? You mentioned you could have gone sub 50 were it not for a recent injury lay off. Is it coz you're training more consistently, or do you put it mostly down to chi running?

Pacing Mule

Laois_Man wrote: »

I do follow your log and I have been wondering about this chi running course since long before you mentioned it. How much of your faster running do you put down to this course? You mentioned you could have gone sub 50 were it not for a recent injury lay off. Is it coz you're training more consistently, or do you put it mostly down to chi running?

I've been consistently improving times this year in particular. Mainly due to weight loss and better training. However I have been carrying a niggle which one of the avenues to address was to attend the chi running course.

So the course itself has not been responsible for getting me to near sub 50 shape as it came after. However it definitely has improved my efficiency and overall speed. Easy paced running is much faster now for the same effort. During the race today I was picking people off quite easily when I could get into and maintain the proper style (it's still not sunk in fully to become my natural style) I'm certain though that the change in form has given me 10-15% of a boost even away from the original reason I did it which was to learn how to run and minimise injury. (I had a very bad heel strike which was contributing to my injuries)

skittles11

Ososlo wrote: »

Great racing today, well done and welcome to the thread skittles.
No reason whatsoever that you can't get your sub 4 in DCM or a lot better if your training continues to go well and you're doing your long runs at the correct pace, but I wouldn't pick any target times yet. It's a bit early. Most people decide after a half marathon in September as you'll have a much better idea then of your capabilities.
Are you planning on doing another half marathon before DCM?
Also, you shouldn't put too much pressure on yourself with a target time for your first marathon. Most people would advise you to go for a fairly conservative target as there are so many variables for your first. But as I said, it's a little early yet for picking a time so just continue to enjoy your training and re-think the whole thing in another month or 6 weeks.

Thanks Ososlo.
Yeah, the Race Series HM is my only event between now and DCM, quite looking forward to it.
One more question, I do most of my long runs on hills, not so much mountain trails but hilly fire roads. I find it helps a lot on any climbs on race days but am I expending too much energy? Should I try to stick more to the flat stuff?

Laois_Man

Pacing Mule wrote: »

I've been consistently improving times this year in particular. Mainly due to weight loss and better training. However I have been carrying a niggle which one of the avenues to address was to attend the chi running course.

So the course itself has not been responsible for getting me to near sub 50 shape as it came after. However it definitely has improved my efficiency and overall speed. Easy paced running is much faster now for the same effort. During the race today I was picking people off quite easily when I could get into and maintain the proper style (it's still not sunk in fully to become my natural style) I'm certain though that the change in form has given me 10-15% of a boost even away from the original reason I did it which was to learn how to run and minimise injury. (I had a very bad heel strike which was contributing to my injuries)

Great
Thanks
I'm definitely considering giving it a shot. I'd probably wait until the new year at this stage...not a good idea to be trying to change style with everything else that's going on at the same time

Well done on the improvements by the way

Ososlo

skittles11 wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo.
Yeah, the Race Series HM is my only event between now and DCM, quite looking forward to it.
One more question, I do most of my long runs on hills, not so much mountain trails but hilly fire roads. I find it helps a lot on any climbs on race days but am I expending too much energy? Should I try to stick more to the flat stuff?

The Race Series HM is perfect timing to start thinking about targets.

I think hills are great and would encourage anyone to run them regularly and you can see yourself that you're benefitting from them so I'd stick with them but if you do feel they're wearing you out then minimise them maybe on the very long runs and use a less hilly route or just lower the effort a bit. Make sure you're doing most of the run at a very comfortable 'conversational' pace but I know it's hard to do that when running up a hill!

Pacing Mule

Laois_Man wrote: »

Great
Thanks
I'm definitely considering giving it a shot. I'd probably wait until the new year at this stage...not a good idea to be trying to change style with everything else that's going on at the same time

Well done on the improvements by the way

A wise decision. I'm only ploughing forward with the new style as I don't think my heel will hold up to increased mileage in DCM training plans.

Laois_Man

Pacing Mule wrote: »

A wise decision. I'm only ploughing forward with the new style as I don't think my heel will hold up to increased mileage in DCM training plans.

Ha. I'm not convinced there's any part of me from the waist down that's holding up to the increased mileage.......but shur we'll have to see at this stage. Too late to start getting all radical now

SoundoftheSea

Ososlo wrote: »

Great running well done! If you're enjoying it then you're doing it right;)
What's your time from Clontarf? I think that's the last race you did?
Keep the LSR very easy and you should always feel like you have a bit left in the tank for a few more miles if you had to and run the MP with a little more effort, but it shouldn't be too taxing as you do have to run 26.2 of them after all:pac:

Thank you Ososlo.
Did Clontarf in 2:29. Best HM to date was 2:20 R&R last year.
This is the first time I have followed a training plain and put in the miles.

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Thank you Ososlo.
Did Clontarf in 2:29. Best HM to date was 2:20 R&R last year.
This is the first time I have followed a training plain and put in the miles.

Is it the Hal Novice Plan you're following?
I think you should be doing the lsr a bit slower to be honest. Nearer 12 pace and McMillan would suggest your marathon pace would be over 11.
What pace did you do today's run at?

SoundoftheSea

Ososlo wrote: »

Is it the Hal Novice Plan you're following?
I think you should be doing the lsr a bit slower to be honest. Nearer 12 pace and McMillan would suggest your marathon pace would be over 11.
What pace did you do today's run at?

Such a slave driver Ososlo, rest day today. (Although not many seam to rest around here lol). Went to the gym and did some cross training.
7 mile weekend run done at 10;30/11;08
When I slow down my brain starts to tell me I am tired and thinks I am at the end of a run.
Following the HHN1 plan.

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Such a slave driver Ososlo, rest day today. (Although not many seam to rest around here lol). Went to the gym and did some cross training.
7 mile weekend run done at 10;30/11;08
When I slow down my brain starts to tell me I am tired and thinks I am at the end of a run.
Following the HHN1 plan.

Ha ha, me a slavedriver? never:D
I thought you had done the lsr this morning. Apologies:)

Well the pace of that 7 mile run is pretty much faster than your marathon pace unless I'm missing something? The average pace sounds like your half marathon pace which is just too fast for a long slow run. I'm afraid you just have to slow them down. If you look at Post 2 of the thread on pacing you'll see why you should be doing the lsr slowly. I think I read above that you hadn't been enjoying most of your runs. That's probably because you're running all your runs too fast.
Also, HHN1 plan doesn't have any Marathon Pace runs. You seem to have been running your weekday runs at around your 5k pace if I'm reading correctly.
In the HHNI Plan, all the runs are to be done easy at a conversational pace regardless of distance. So all your running should basically be done at around 12 min pace if not slower.
Maybe start posting more during the week after your runs so we can keep an eye on how you're finding them and if you have any specific questions at all, please just ask. Now is the time to get the pacing right.
Bottom line: All your runs should feel very comfortable. The HH1 plan is all about building up the time you spend on your feet so don't be worrying about pace at all.

edit to say : have a careful read of this. Hal puts it all much more succinctly than I ever could!

neilthefunkeone

Well folks, Hope everyone that did the bay 10k or the R&R half had a good one.. Haven't had a chance to read the thread for the last week or so but i'm keeping the mileage tracker up to date.

So i moved over to the boards plan last week and enjoying the little bit of variety in the mid week runs. Completed the 15m LSR on sat morning, Avg pace 10:00/mile. Rained all the way around but enjoyed it. Felt grand after too so that was encouraging.

So the next 3 weekend LSR's are 14m, 17m then 10M race. As ill be in Spain for the weekend of the 17m LSR i'm going to move it up to this weekend and do the 14m the week after(or as close as i can before heat kills me!)

Ososlo

Casey being interviewed on 2 fm now

frash

Just caught up on 2 weeks worth of posts to this thread having been off on holidays. It's been busy on here!
Annoyed with myself that I only managed 1 * 5m run each week while off but before I left I felt that the LSRs were taking a lot out of me so maybe the rest was good.

Did the DLR10k yesterday in 55:40 which was 6 minutes faster than last year but over 2 mins slower than my PB. Considering the last 2 weeks were quite boozy though I'm happy enough with that.
I remember this day last year my legs being so stiff but today there's not a bother on them - I even did a 2 mile warm up run down to the race & a 1 mile jog back home.

Plan for this week is 5 miles on Wed & Thurs and hopefully an 18 mile LSR on Saturday (16 is the longest one I've done so far).
Oh & no booze for a while too!

Casey78

Ososlo wrote: »

Casey being interviewed on 2 fm now

I was so nervous!

Pm1e

I did the RNR HM yesterday and loved it, I have really been struggling to enjoy running but yesterday was like something I'd never experienced before. I'd never done a HM, and the only reason for it was to know I could finish it for a half ironman I'm doing in 2 weeks. I finished with a time of 1:44mins and a 10km split of 48mins (PB on that is 43mins) so pretty happy although nothing to base it off. Happy to take some insight off the gurus in here, loved the weather, the route, the people, everything! well done all finishers.

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

I was so nervous!

You didn't sound nervous at all! Lovely to hear the interview and let us know how the coaching from Sean Hehir goes!!

KillianByrne

Thoroughly enjoyable 5 and a bit mile recovery run done. Brought the dog, put the watch in my pocket and headed out. It was a little farther than I had planned but it was a lovely day, pace was really easy and both me and the dog were enjoying ourselves.

Felt really good after it with seemingly no ill effects on the hamstring, it's a small bit tender but better than yesterday.

Laois_Man

Casey78 wrote: »

I was so nervous!

Just listened to it on playback....

You sounded very intelligent for someone who has decided to run a marathon

I've ATTEMPTED to make a small donation to your mycharity page. I say attempted because I have left my credit card at home....and believe it or not, I can remember the 16 digit credit card number perfectly, but can't remember the 3 digit security card on the back...and now I have tried so many times and got it wrong, I have locked myself out of my mycharity.ie account (Because unlike you, I on the other hand, have just the right intelligence to decide to run a marathon).

I'll sort it out later and make the donation

I hope you don't mind me putting up a link to your mycharity.ie page - but I had a lot of trouble finding it (see, intelligence)

http://www.mycharity.ie/event/eoincaseymarathon/

Best of luck to Eoin

Pm1e

Laois_Man wrote: »

Just listened to it on playback....

You sounded very intelligent for someone who has decided to run a marathon

I've ATTEMPTED to make a small donation to your mycharity page. I say attempted because I have left my credit card at home....and believe it or not, I can remember the 16 digit credit card number perfectly, but can't remember the 3 digit security card on the back...and now I have tried so many times and got it wrong, I have locked myself out of my mycharity.ie account (Because unlike you, I on the other hand, have just the right intelligence to decide to run a marathon).

I'll sort it out later and make the donation

I hope you don't mind me putting up a link to your mycharity.ie page - but I had a lot of trouble finding it (see, intelligence)

http://www.mycharity.ie/event/eoincaseymarathon/

Best of luck to Eoin

Could you post the link to playback?

Laois_Man

Pm1e wrote: »

Could you post the link to playback?

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=1%3A10308561%3A0%3A%3A

Casey starts after about 28 minutes

Pm1e

Laois_Man wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=1%3A10308561%3A0%3A%3A

Casey starts after about 28 minutes

Nice one, great listen.

laura_ac3

Casey78 wrote: »

I was so nervous!

Well done Eoin! Great listen and you didn't sound nervous at all. I saw the reminder post from Ososlo this morning but must have just missed you by the time I turned the radio on, glad to catch it on playback.

Happy training

crisco10

First bit of a race report here...

Woke up at 7am; small bowl of porridge then taxi at 7:45 to the starting area. I have to say it was all very well organised; bag drop etc was pretty easy. It was noticeable the number of tourist runners around the start line. Dublin looked really well in the fantastic morning sun!

Having been taking it easy all week in the build up I was a bit antsy and dying to go; I took a gel a few minutes before and that was it nutrition wise bar water until the end.

0 to 5km; 21:15
My "A" target for the race was sub 1:30, however I thought that was a little optimistic so I set out just behind the 1:30 pacer and wasn't too surprised when they drifted away from me. I just concentrated on not working too hard and finding my rythm. I was thinking at the 2km that I would never finish! But just forgot about that and concetrated on my breathing.
Little hill at Christchurch was a bit mean, but short thank god. Followed by the 1st water point which was nice. Managed to get a half cup in my mouth, half over my face. The perfect ratio given the warm day!

6 to 10km; 21:16
This 5km was through an area of town I knew nothing of. I had run threw Kilmainham once before but that was it. The new roads were a welcome distraction however, Pace felt comfortable at this stage. The barbeque around the 8km mark wasn't as tempting as I would have expected. Even had the energy to tell the band around 5miles to cheer up!

11 to 15km; 21:48
A quite uphill 5km as the 5km split demonstrates. I was also starting to overheat in the sun, so was glad of the shade in Phoenix Park. Phoenix Park was home to the best band by far, the drumming Samba Band! Even if Acres Road did hurt like a Motherf&^$£r, it was better with them ringing in my ears. I found Chesterfield Ave to be a complete bore. Running up the footpath with very few people was a bit of a drag. Although honourable mention to the kid with the sign "Worst Parade Ever"; gave me a good chuckle. The path was also quite narrow, which I imagine was a bit uncomfortable for the bigger groups around the 2hr mark. Overall though, body felt happy with the way things were going.

16 to 20km; 21:45
I hadn't thought about it, but at 10miles, I had the presence of mind to look down and notice 69:40 which beat my Frank Duffy 2013 time by 30 seconds. So at least 1 PB in the bag. :-) To be honest, I remember quite little else about this 5km. Given that we had passed the finishing village near the 10 mile marker, On every downhill all I could think was; "i'm gonna have to come up this hill!". That was the only thing I remember thinking.

20km to 21.1km; 4:40
Actually a nice flat final 1.1km so I put the pedal down. Although I knew the 1:30 wasn't gonna happen, I was still keen to optimise my time! Was delighted to turn the corner at the end and really really loved the downhill 300m into the finish line. I thought it was a great finishing straight. Reflected by my doing the last 300m at 3:25min/km pace!

Finish line!! Garmin gave me a 1:30:48 which I knew was a bit longer. I consciously savoured the finish instead of worrying about stopping my watch which added a few seconds. Chip time came in at 1:30:44 which sounds about right. Came exactly 250th in the mens field which is almost top 10% which is nice. So PB for me, and plenty to work on! (I lost a lot of pace on the uphills). I don't think I do enough Tempo style work on hills. I'm also quite bad at running down hill efficiently I feel.

I then went back to watch/cheer the 1:45 to 2:00 crowd come in. Plenty of smiling faces and sprint finishes which was great to see. I did see one very very ashen looking women being carried by the medics over the line. I hope she was ok when she finished and recovered.

Well done all, and after all the complaining in the build up, I do think the event delivered.

Relaxing week to let the niggles recover, then back to DCM training next week.

PS: had pizza and Pimms last night as a reward. It tasted oh so sweet!

Frosty McSnowballs

Great race summary folks!

As I said in my earlier post, I'm a fecking eeijit for training with injuries. The latest one had been on my "good knee".

Just ignored it for the last 9 weeks up until today when I was compleyy fcuked. Guy in work had a look at it and he says it's my IT Band. He is massaging them tomorrow. Anyone ever have this issue and any good advice?

Apparently my 8 year old runners may be the cause .

Thanks all.

Ososlo

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Great race summary folks!

As I said in my earlier post, I'm a fecking eeijit for training with injuries. The latest one had been on my "good knee".

Just ignored it for the last 9 weeks up until today when I was compleyy fcuked. Guy in work had a look at it and he says it's my IT Band. He is massaging them tomorrow. Anyone ever have this issue and any good advice?

Apparently my 8 year old runners may be the cause .

Thanks all.

8 year old runners? You serious???? I hope not! If you are then you need to get yourself gait analysis and a new pair asap!
If you're in pain with your injury you definitely need to see a physio asap also!

SoundoftheSea

Thanks Ososlo, very informative. I will post after my run tomorrow.

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Thaks Ososlo, very informative. I will post after my run tomorrow.

Great. Success for DCM is all in getting the pacing right from this point onwards. Run the miles according to the plan at the right comfortable effort and you'll have a great day out.

Ososlo

crisco10 wrote: »

Finish line!! Garmin gave me a 1:30:48 which I knew was a bit longer. I consciously savoured the finish instead of worrying about stopping my watch which added a few seconds. Chip time came in at 1:30:44 which sounds about right. Came exactly 250th in the mens field which is almost top 10% which is nice. So PB for me, and plenty to work on! (I lost a lot of pace on the uphills). I don't think I do enough Tempo style work on hills. I'm also quite bad at running down hill efficiently I feel.

Relaxing week to let the niggles recover, then back to DCM training next week.

PS: had pizza and Pimms last night as a reward. It tasted oh so sweet!

Fantastic crisco. Really enjoyed that report and well done on the PB!
Enjoy the well deserved rest this week and keep the recovery runs super easy.
You certainly deserved the treats last night!