DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

adrian522

12 Miles tonight, headed up around Marlay Park. Nice run, some decent hills up around there. 9:19 pace overall. I think I've come a long way since a very tough 12 mile run that I barely got through about a month ago.

Laois_Man

Was due a 5 mile run tonight - but called it quits after 3 miles - probably should have pulled up before that really. I'd say it would have been obvious to anyone looking at me that I was running in a lot of discomfort. The issue....that right hamstring pain.

Other issues I was suffering from are much much better (the clicking hip on the left leg and the PTTD on the right foot/lower leg - although I am still feeling that a little bit in the foot) but this hamstring pain is not giving me any fair chance of being able to meet the demands of a marathon training program....so I decided to quit fooling myself tonight and pulled up

I have tried to stretch it at every conceivable angle as always...rope assisted and non rope assisted....and it seems to feel a bit better now

My next scheduled run is a 16 mile LSR on Friday and I have no idea now what's going to become of it. In the meantime, will try everything I can think of....more stretching....ice....compression....neurofen.....anything!

I fear it will have to be at least another week out and probably more or I will gradually make it a lot worse. I'll see how I feel Friday. If I have to take time out, you won't be seeing me on this forum for the duration coz it'll make me impatient and miserable :P

RedRunner

Laois_Man wrote: »

Was due a 5 mile run tonight - but called it quits after 3 miles - probably should have pulled up before that really. I'd say it would have been obvious to anyone looking at me that I was running in a lot of discomfort. The issue....that right hamstring pain.

Other issues I was suffering from are much much better (the clicking hip on the left leg and the PTTD on the right foot/lower leg - although I am still feeling that a little bit in the foot) but this hamstring pain is not giving me any fair chance of being able to meet the demands of a marathon training program....so I decided to quit fooling myself tonight and pulled up

I have tried to stretch it at every conceivable angle as always...rope assisted and non rope assisted....and it seems to feel a bit better now

My next scheduled run is a 16 mile LSR on Friday and I have no idea now what's going to become of it. In the meantime, will try everything I can think of....more stretching....ice....compression....neurofen.....anything!

I fear it will have to be at least another week out and probably more or I will gradually make it a lot worse. I'll see how I feel Friday. If I have to take time out, you won't be seeing me on this forum for the duration coz it'll make me impatient and miserable :P

Hi Laois_Man. (Forgive me if I butt in here Ososlo) but I don't think you are giving the hamstring enough time to recover. You need to rest more but it would seem that you are continuing to run on it. That is why it is not going away. I have hamstring issues myself and sometimes rest is just the best thing for it followed by gradual return to easy running and then followed by gradual return to the more intense stuff.

Suffering from a hamstring injury right now so I feel your pain...if you know what I mean!

Laois_Man

RedRunner wrote: »

Hi Laois_Man. (Forgive me if I butt in here Ososlo) but I don't think you are giving the hamstring enough time to recover. You need to rest more but it would seem that you are continuing to run on it. That is why it is not going away. I have hamstring issues myself and sometimes rest is just the best thing for it followed by gradual return to easy running and then followed by gradual return to the more intense stuff.

Suffering from a hamstring injury right now so I feel your pain...if you know what I mean!

Yeah I did take 8 days out up until last weekend and I came back thinking if I missed much more time I could kiss goodbye to DCM. That may be the case now regardless. In terms of. pacing_ I haven't done any intense stuff since April when I decided to put all my eggs in the DCM basket and start going longer and slower and all I'm thinking now is maybe it's not worth all that and maybe I'd be better off concentrating on stuff where I have more chances per year of things working out and where everything doesn't have to be going well for such a long period of time.

Ive already got the record of the first drop out from the 2013 novices thread. So I won't give up on this one just yet.......although maybe I should. As it is, I've only covered 140 miles since the plan started 6 and a half weeks ago.

ChadHogan

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done on getting some good running done during the hols. Not easy I know but it'll stand to you.
If you're to miss a LSR or session, miss the session for sure. The LSR is BY FAR the most important run of the week. Drop the session if you're struggling to fit all the runs in.
If you're doing both then try to leave 2 days at least between them. But if you're not feeling up to doing a lsr or session with only 2 days, don't force it. Wait until your body is ready. Everyone responds differently to lsr/sessions and recovery is different for everyone. General rule of thumb would be 2 days between the two.
I wouldn't have a session or lsr sooner than 6/7 days before a goal race. You want to do well and be as fresh as possible so I'd run easy for most of the week before a goal race and just add in a few strides to some of your easy runs during the week.
I'd do the LSR 7 days before the race, plenty of easy runs during the week, skip the session that week and then you're well set up for the race.

Thanks Ososlo,

I should be able to get all the runs in, and will try keep two days between LSRs and session runs. It might mean doing and LSR on a Monday night which I’m not fond of, but I suppose they aren’t meant to be easy.

I had a nice recovery run myself last night. I have to say I’ve become a big advocate of doing the recovery miles. I know the plan says rest is an option but my legs are thanking me for the recovery run this morning. This is something I may have been ignorant of, had I not been following the boards plan and this thread.

crisco10

ChadHogan wrote: »

I had a nice recovery run myself last night. I have to say I’ve become a big advocate of doing the recovery miles. I know the plan says rest is an option but my legs are thanking me for the recovery run this morning. This is something I may have been ignorant of, had I not been following the boards plan and this thread.

Recovery runs are amazing. My favourite run of the week is the recovery run the morning after my LSR. I feel like Forrest Gump when he loses his leg braces; stiff at the start and gradually everything just loosens and becomes free!

KillianByrne

Really comfortable and enjoyable 7m this morning. Blue sky, warm and very light breeze. Easy pace felt really easy and came in at 30secs per minute faster than planned :eek: (sorry Ososlo). Looks like the recent speed and tempo sessions are paying dividends.

All in all this has been a good week, Bay10k PB, lovely recovery 5m on Tuesday and 7m this morning.

Today might be a good day to ask me for money, before something goes wrong!

Ososlo

KillianByrne wrote: »

Really comfortable and enjoyable 7m this morning. Blue sky, warm and very light breeze. Easy pace felt really easy and came in at 30secs per minute faster than planned :eek: (sorry Ososlo). Looks like the recent speed and tempo sessions are paying dividends.

All in all this has been a good week, Bay10k PB, lovely recovery 5m on Tuesday and 7m this morning.

Today might be a good day to ask me for money, before something goes wrong!

Hi Killian and well done again on the race. Sounds like you're really enjoying your training also at the moment which is great to hear.
My easy pace can vary a lot from day to day as I run my easy and recovery runs by feel so as long as easy truly feels easy for you then there really is no problem if the pace is quicker some days than others imo.

Ososlo

FYI
Entry to Frank Duffy 10 mile closes this Sunday 10th August

crisco10

Just in from Doctor (was there for a few things) amongst others a sore foot after the race on Monday....tendonosis apparently, nothing serious but taking it handy for a week or two. It's why I built some slack into the training schedule!!

God I am disappointed in my body sometimes.

ecoli

crisco10 wrote: »

Just in from Doctor (was there for a few things) amongst others a sore foot after the race on Monday....tendonosis apparently, nothing serious but taking it handy for a week or two. It's why I built some slack into the training schedule!!

God I am disappointed in my body sometimes.

Tendonosis or Tendonitis? I presume he meant the latter?

crisco10

ecoli wrote: »

Tendonosis or Tendonitis? I presume he meant the latter?

Nope, she specifically said Tendonosis and that it wasn't tendinitis "yet".

ecoli

crisco10 wrote: »

Nope, she specifically said Tendonosis and that it wasn't tendinitis "yet".

Think she got the wires crossed then alright as tendonitis is the more acute one. Main thing is its acute not chronic just was checking when you mentioned being back in two weeks.

Main thing is rest it up, hit the pool for a bit if you are worried about losing fitness

crisco10

ecoli wrote: »

Think she got the wires crossed then alright as tendonitis is the more acute one. Main thing is its acute not chronic just was checking when you mentioned being back in two weeks.

Main thing is rest it up, hit the pool for a bit if you are worried about losing fitness

Fair enough, yeah it's definitely acute. It came on quite quickly after Monday's half marathon and has dissipated significantly in the days since.

Stazza

ecoli wrote: »

Tendonosis or Tendonitis? I presume he meant the latter?

Not being pedantic or an ar$e (genuinely interested and you are more up to date than me on all this stuff), but can tendons become inflamed? Back in the day when I was doing all the treatment malarkey I believed that they could and that there was such a thing as tendonitis. In fact, I recently advised somebody to ice their achilles while I was icing mine - :o.

But recent research I've been doing for a piece of fiction has led me to believe that there is no such thing as tendonitis. Apparently, 'tendons are not capable of inflammation.' If tendons aren't 'capable of inflammation' then there is no such thing as tendonitis.

Apologies for stretching the ontopicnessiocity of this, just genuinely interested.

MKDTH

Just had a conversation with Yaboya1 with regards to stretching. I go through about a 15 mins exercise routine of stretches from my Football Coaching days before I go for a run, he says he only really stretches after a run and not really before.

I must admit I previously used to always do a slow jog before starting stretching so may need a rethink as I've only done this since starting running.

What does everyone else do?

The reason I was speaking about stretching is that I have a minor niggle in my calf which has caused me to miss two days training. I had trained for five days on the bounce, playing catch up from last week so may of just pushed myself a little too much.

I've started and gone through my usual routine of stretching for the past two morning before each day deciding not to run on it. Maybe I will just run on Friday without a stretch, and then see how it feels after a mile or so and then maybe stretch afterwards.

My planned 5k park run at Malahide looks like a no go at this stage.

RedRunner

MKDTH wrote: »

Just had a conversation with Yaboya1 with regards to stretching. I go through about a 15 mins exercise routine of stretches from my Football Coaching days before I go for a run, he says he only really stretches after a run and not really before.

I must admit I previously used to always do a slow jog before starting stretching so may need a rethink as I've only done this since starting running.

What does everyone else do?

The reason I was speaking about stretching is that I have a minor niggle in my calf which has caused me to miss two days training. I had trained for five days on the bounce, playing catch up from last week so may of just pushed myself a little too much.

I've started and gone through my usual routine of stretching for the past two morning before each day deciding not to run on it. Maybe I will just run on Friday without a stretch, and then see how it feels after a mile or so and then maybe stretch afterwards.

My planned 5k park run at Malahide looks like a no go at this stage.

Dynamic or active stretches before and static stretches after a run. Sometimes no stretching before but always stretch after.

adrian522

I'm not sure static stretching before running does any good and it may in fact e harmful. The general advice now is to do a good warmup before upping the intensity.

I usually stretch afterwards but would only spend about 3 mins at it, focusing on muscles that feel tight. I think strengthening does a lot more for injury prevention than stretching. I've no real evidence for this, though when I go to a physio with an injury, invariably some muscle or other is not strong enough and needs to be strengthened.

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Just had a conversation with Yaboya1 with regards to stretching. I go through about a 15 mins exercise routine of stretches from my Football Coaching days before I go for a run, he says he only really stretches after a run and not really before.

I must admit I previously used to always do a slow jog before starting stretching so may need a rethink as I've only done this since starting running.

What does everyone else do?

The reason I was speaking about stretching is that I have a minor niggle in my calf which has caused me to miss two days training. I had trained for five days on the bounce, playing catch up from last week so may of just pushed myself a little too much.

I've started and gone through my usual routine of stretching for the past two morning before each day deciding not to run on it. Maybe I will just run on Friday without a stretch, and then see how it feels after a mile or so and then maybe stretch afterwards.

My planned 5k park run at Malahide looks like a no go at this stage.

Firstly, it sounds to me like your calf niggle is because of your 'playing catch up'. Really not a good idea, especially as you're only very recently back to running after a very ;)long break. You have to be extra careful and dealing with these niggles correctly is crucial for you in order to get to the start line in a fit healthy state. Please skip the Parkrun! You might need to rest it for a few days and/or run to recovery effort until it's better.

Whatever kind of running/session anyone sets out to do, I'd always recommend to start out really slowly and never to just jump into a run head first. Start out really easy and work up to the required effort progressively, whether it be a race or a session or a marathon pace run and cool down at the end of a run in the same fashion.

The whole stretching thing is a minefield and I really don't like advising anyone on what kind of stretching to do as different things suit different people but generally people would say not to stretch cold muscles before a run. However, I ALWAYS stretch before every run but it's not conventional stretching. I do Active Isolated Stretching with a rope - link at end of Post 1. The stretches aren't held for very long but I do lots of reps. This works for me.

There are going to be fifty million different opinions on what you should do and not do when it comes to stretching so you really need to just find out what works for you. Your Football Coaching routine probably works just fine for you and you very possibly got the niggle just because of the intensity of the catch up.

Laois_Man

Dynamic and Static stretches:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/07/injury-prevention/dynamic-stretching-vs-static-stretching_54248

MKDTH

Cheers chaps, planning on going for a one mile warm up run in the morning, if it feels okay, I'll then run the six miles to work, any issues, I'll hop on the bus.

Would stretching after a one mile warm up be a benefit? This would be what we used to do in my Football days, but Football has a fair bit more wear and tear on the legs due to all of the twisting and turning rather than just running in a straight line.

Hopefully this small injury can prove to be a positive if it helps my long term running routine!

It will be a nice slow run either way.

Ososlo

Stazza wrote: »

Apologies for stretching the ontopicnessiocity of this, just genuinely interested.

Yes I Googled it and no it's not even in the dictionary! Making up words again are we Stazza:D

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Cheers chaps, planning on going for a one mile warm up run in the morning, if it feels okay, I'll then run the six miles to work, any issues, I'll hop on the bus.

Would stretching after a one mile warm up be a benefit? This would be what we used to do in my Football days, but Football has a fair bit more wear and tear on the legs due to all of the twisting and turning rather than just running in a straight line.

Hopefully this small injury can prove to be a positive if it helps my long term running routine!

It will be a nice slow run either way.

Not sure to be honest. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in to advise you. Foam rollers are great for the calfs too. Do you use one????

MKDTH

Laois_Man wrote: »

Dynamic and Static stretches:


Cheers, just looking them up on Youtube

MKDTH

Ososlo wrote: »

Not sure to be honest. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in to advise you. Foam rollers are great for the calfs too. Do you use one????

I must say that I don't as I was very happy with my stretching as it was. I did read up a little about them but the cost put me off as I am still adding other running accessories to my collection.

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

I must say that I don't as I was very happy with my stretching as it was. I did read up a little about them but the cost put me off as I am still adding other running accessories to my collection.

I really think you should invest in one. I got one shortly after I started running and really feel it's one of the main reasons why I don't tend to get injured very often.
I think Argos do cheap ones but don't know what the quality would be like.
It's a lot cheaper to purchase one than to pay for even one physio visit:)

yaboya1

Ososlo wrote: »

I really think you should invest in one. I got one shortly after I started running and really feel it's one of the main reasons why I don't tend to get injured very often.
I think Argos do cheap ones but don't know what the quality would be like.
It's a lot cheaper to purchase one than to pay for even one physio visit:)

I'm still getting by with the one I bought for €20 last December.

MKDTH

Ososlo wrote: »

I really think you should invest in one. I got one shortly after I started running and really feel it's one of the main reasons why I don't tend to get injured very often.
I think Argos do cheap ones but don't know what the quality would be like.
It's a lot cheaper to purchase one than to pay for even one physio visit:)

Okay I'll take a look cheers, not sure how people afford physio in this country!

Sauve

Hi hi

Quick question re speedwork-
I've always done one speed session (intervals of some form or another) once a week. I'd do it as one of the shorter runs. Should I continue this right through the plan, or do people tend to scrap the fast stuff as the marathon approaches?

laura_ac3

Ok....I'm taking the plunge into the world of gels this weekend on my long run to start experimenting. Planning about 15/16 miles. Bought two different ones so not sure which to try yet - decisions decisions! My question is seeing as it's my first time trying them how many and when would be a good idea? I was thinking one or two max. Maybe my first at mile 6? From my research I've seen a recurring theme of people taking them at miles 6/12/18 of the marathon so that's where I got my idea of mile 6 from. Any suggestions welcome