DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Sauve wrote: »

Hi hi

Quick question re speedwork-
I've always done one speed session (intervals of some form or another) once a week. I'd do it as one of the shorter runs. Should I continue this right through the plan, or do people tend to scrap the fast stuff as the marathon approaches?

Is there speedwork in your plan or is that with a club or something you do on your own?
You could keep it going for the moment if it's not impacting your lsr or semi-long mid week run. You need to ensure you're not too tired for these as they're the bread and butter of your training.

Are you doing any marathon paced running? This might serve you better than faster intervals. Other opinions welcomed...

adrian522

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Ok....I'm taking the plunge into the world of gels this weekend on my long run to start experimenting. Planning about 15/16 miles. Bought two different ones so not sure which to try yet - decisions decisions! My question is seeing as it's my first time trying them how many and when would be a good idea? I was thinking one or two max. Maybe my first at mile 6? From my research I've seen a recurring theme of people taking them at miles 6/12/18 of the marathon so that's where I got my idea of mile 6 from. Any suggestions welcome

Try the first one after one hour and the second one after another 45 mins.

See how your stomach handles them and see if you notice any positive effects. Take them with water too unless they are "Isogels".

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Ok....I'm taking the plunge into the world of gels this weekend on my long run to start experimenting. Planning about 15/16 miles. Bought two different ones so not sure which to try yet - decisions decisions! My question is seeing as it's my first time trying them how many and when would be a good idea? I was thinking one or two max. Maybe my first at mile 6? From my research I've seen a recurring theme of people taking them at miles 6/12/18 of the marathon so that's where I got my idea of mile 6 from. Any suggestions welcome

Good advice from adrian there. Wait until you're a bit tired to take the first one so not sooner than an hour so you can see if you notice any difference.
Ideally bring 2 of the same brand and flavour this week so that if they don't work out you can rule out that brand and flavour and try a different one next week.
Enjoy:D

Sauve

Ososlo wrote: »

Is there speedwork in your plan or is that with a club or something you do on your own?
You could keep it going for the moment if it's not impacting your lsr or semi-long mid week run. You need to ensure you're not too tired for these as they're the bread and butter of your training.

Are you doing any marathon paced running? This might serve you better than faster intervals. Other opinions welcomed...

No speedwork with the plan, I'm on HH Intermediate 1. I'm doing some by myself, and some with the club.
I think it is impacting my other runs, I'm knackered tbh!
Maybe I should cut them back to once a fortnight and see how I go? I'm just afraid of losing any little bit of speed I had.
Thanks Ososlo

laura_ac3

adrian522 wrote: »

Try the first one after one hour and the second one after another 45 mins.

See how your stomach handles them and see if you notice any positive effects. Take them with water too unless they are "Isogels".

Ososlo wrote: »

Good advice from adrian there. Wait until you're a bit tired to take the first one so not sooner than an hour so you can see if you notice any difference.
Ideally bring 2 of the same brand and flavour this week so that if they don't work out you can rule out that brand and flavour and try a different one next week.
Enjoy:D

Thanks guys. I have two of the same flavour and type that I'll try, ones to take with water alright. I'm so afraid of my tummy not appreciating them and getting caught on the hop in the Phoenix park on Saturday morning. I could end up in the "strangest thing you've seen out running" thread :eek:

only way to find out :cool:

adrian522

Better to find out on a training run than a race though. I think you'll be fine, I haven't had any problems with mine.

Which ones did you get?

Ososlo

Sauve wrote: »

No speedwork with the plan, I'm on HH Intermediate 1. I'm doing some by myself, and some with the club.
I think it is impacting my other runs, I'm knackered tbh!
Maybe I should cut them back to once a fortnight and see how I go? I'm just afraid of losing any little bit of speed I had.
Thanks Ososlo

If you're knackered maybe drop it for a while. When you go back to it maybe just do one weekly/fortnightly session with the club. Sounds like you're taking on a lot so you might need to give your body a bit of a break.

laura_ac3

adrian522 wrote: »

Better to find out on a training run than a race though. I think you'll be fine, I haven't had any problems with mine.

Which ones did you get?

Got the orange high 5 ones and another isogel type, same flavour. They were the only ones in the cycling shop I was in the other day. Will see how they go anyway and can shop around for other flavours and types elsewhere. I'm intrigued by the cola flavoured ones people were talking about earlier in the thread. Do you have any preferences yourself?

adrian522

Is there any caffiene in the ones you have? Some have and some don't.
Doesn't make much difference really but good to know if the caffiene ones have a different effect.

Casey78

Would the isogels be better so you don't have to carry water?
Haven't tried gels yet myself but have used those Clif shot bloks I think they are called but I don't think they do anything for me to be honest.

adrian522

Well, in theory yes, but on a run of 18-20 miles you are going to need water anyway.

With the normal gels in the race we will have to time them so that they are taken at or just before the water stops.

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

Would the isogels be better so you don't have to carry water?
Haven't tried gels yet myself but have used those Clif shot bloks I think they are called but I don't think they do anything for me to be honest.

I don't know anything about them but according to this thread they're still quite thick and gloopy so you probably would need water anyway.
I used Powerbar and found them great. Never any issues and got a nice little hit from them.

laura_ac3

adrian522 wrote: »

Is there any caffiene in the ones you have? Some have and some don't.
Doesn't make much difference really but good to know if the caffiene ones have a different effect.

Nope, no caffeine in the ones I'm trying. Will bear that in mind for any others I try.

Casey78 wrote: »

Would the isogels be better so you don't have to carry water?
Haven't tried gels yet myself but have used those Clif shot bloks I think they are called but I don't think they do anything for me to be honest.

I always carry water on my long runs so no hassle taking some to have with the gels. Might try the isogels next time though depending on this trial run. Clif shot bloks....never heard of those.

Casey78

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Nope, no caffeine in the ones I'm trying. Will bear that in mind for any others I try.



I always carry water on my long runs so no hassle taking some to have with the gels. Might try the isogels next time though depending on this trial run. Clif shot bloks....never heard of those.

http://www.clifbar.com/products/clif-shot/shot-bloks

ecoli

Stazza wrote: »

Not being pedantic or an ar$e (genuinely interested and you are more up to date than me on all this stuff), but can tendons become inflamed? Back in the day when I was doing all the treatment malarkey I believed that they could and that there was such a thing as tendonitis. In fact, I recently advised somebody to ice their achilles while I was icing mine - :o.

But recent research I've been doing for a piece of fiction has led me to believe that there is no such thing as tendonitis. Apparently, 'tendons are not capable of inflammation.' If tendons aren't 'capable of inflammation' then there is no such thing as tendonitis.

Apologies for stretching the ontopicnessiocity of this, just genuinely interested.

To be honest it seems to be kinda going full circle in terms of research:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/08/bjsports-2012-091957.full

Personally I would be of the same opinion as yourself and have found modalities such as FSM, platelet therapy and SWT to be less effective overall in treatments,from my experience anyway

Stazza

ecoli wrote: »

To be honest it seems to be kinda going full circle in terms of research:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2013/03/08/bjsports-2012-091957.full

Personally I would be of the same opinion as yourself and have found modalities such as FSM, platelet therapy and SWT to be less effective overall in treatments,from my experience anyway

Thanks. That was decent paper: as you said, kinda brings everything together nicely.

MKDTH

Ososlo wrote: »

I really think you should invest in one. I got one shortly after I started running and really feel it's one of the main reasons why I don't tend to get injured very often.
I think Argos do cheap ones but don't know what the quality would be like.
It's a lot cheaper to purchase one than to pay for even one physio visit:)

I had it in my head that these started at 50 quid upwards at Amazon. 12 quid in Argos is fair enough.

Cheers

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

I had it in my head that these started at 50 quid upwards at Amazon. 12 quid in Argos is fair enough.

Cheers

I think my grid one was about 30 euro in Elverys

adrian522

Thread I started on the subject earlier in the year....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057195819

Laois_Man

16 mile LSR done
Slight pain in the hamstring for the first 3-4 miles and then it miraculously disappeared

Tried this one without gels

The over pronation was very pronounced at. the end. Was hurting

Wrecked at the end.

adrian522

Very well done LM, nice to get a long run in the books.

I've an 18 miler planned for tomorrow, I'm going to take gels, not sure if I'll go for 2 or 3 though.

6 Miles done this evening

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

16 mile LSR done
Slight pain in the hamstring for the first 3-4 miles and then it miraculously disappeared

Tried this one without gels

The over pronation was very pronounced at. the end. Was hurting

Wrecked at the end.

Well done, nice run there and hope you recover well. Keep things as easy as possible for a few days to let things settle.

Dub13

Looking for BAA plan advice for the next 2 weeks. The plan has me down for a 10 mile race next weekend, I am racing the frank duffy 10 mile the following weekend. So to keep things simple I was thinking of swapping the 2 weeks of the plan around. Looking for opinion's on this, here are the 2 weeks...

Week 6 (36-56 MILES)

Monday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Tuesday Interval - 8 to 11 total. 1 mile-2 mile-1 mile at slightly slower than 10K pace, 4 and 7 minutes recovery.
Wednesday Distance - 4 to 6 miles
Thursday Tempo - 8 to 10, with 1 x 20 minutes & 1 x 10 minutes in the middle at marathon pace, 8 minutes recovery.
Friday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Saturday Distance - 3 to 7 miles, easy day
Sunday Race - 10 miles to half marathon at marathon pace, 2 mile warm-up, and 1 to 2 mile cool down OR 15 to 17 miles with miles 3 through 13 at marathon pace

Week 7 (50-65 MILES)

Monday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Tuesday Interval - 7 to 10 total. 5 x 1,000m at 10K pace, 2 minutes recovery.
Wednesday Distance - 5 to 8 miles
Thursday MLR - 10 to 11 miles
Friday Distance - 4 to 6 miles
Saturday Distance - 5 to 8 miles
Sunday Long Distance - 18 to 20 miles, with last 4 miles at marathon pace

AuldManKing

Dub13 wrote: »

Looking for BAA plan advice for the next 2 weeks. The plan has me down for a 10 mile race next weekend, I am racing the frank duffy 10 mile the following weekend. So to keep things simple I was thinking of swapping the 2 weeks of the plan around. Looking for opinion's on this, here are the 2 weeks...

Week 6 (36-56 MILES)

Monday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Tuesday Interval - 8 to 11 total. 1 mile-2 mile-1 mile at slightly slower than 10K pace, 4 and 7 minutes recovery.
Wednesday Distance - 4 to 6 miles
Thursday Tempo - 8 to 10, with 1 x 20 minutes & 1 x 10 minutes in the middle at marathon pace, 8 minutes recovery.
Friday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Saturday Distance - 3 to 7 miles, easy day
Sunday Race - 10 miles to half marathon at marathon pace, 2 mile warm-up, and 1 to 2 mile cool down OR 15 to 17 miles with miles 3 through 13 at marathon pace

Week 7 (50-65 MILES)

Monday Rest Day - 0 to 3 miles
Tuesday Interval - 7 to 10 total. 5 x 1,000m at 10K pace, 2 minutes recovery.
Wednesday Distance - 5 to 8 miles
Thursday MLR - 10 to 11 miles
Friday Distance - 4 to 6 miles
Saturday Distance - 5 to 8 miles
Sunday Long Distance - 18 to 20 miles, with last 4 miles at marathon pace

The key 2 sessions in those 2 weeks is the 20 mile run and then the 10 mile race. Everything else is secondary imo.

Having used the BAA plan myself, I'd swap the weeks around.
If you've raced these distances before or have been running for a couple of years, stick to the plan - the 10 miler wont be the best 10 miler you've ever ran, but it'll put you in super shape for the HM and then the Marathon.

If you're totally new to running then run the previous Thursdays tempo at the very top end (slower) of the range.

You might also need to watch how you feel for the following Tuesday session (after the 10 miler) - 5x1km at 10k pace is not great after a 10 mile race.
Personally I'd skip the session totally - you'll gain lots from the 10 miler itself.

As a 1st time marathoner (I assume?) - pace is not as important as endurance - so it wont impact too much missing the 5x1km - your recovery should be ok for the following weekends 20 miler - which is the key session out of the 2 weeks you have posted.
If you do the 5x1km - you may burn out for the 20 miler.
Just my advice.

aquinn

Evening,
Best run week of my life, well the 2.5 years I'm running anyway. I followed the Boards plan this week for a first.
Just in from my 14m LSR and really enjoyed it. I've been going on the flat of late so this week I did my 4 (not so easy) with inclines, 7m and my 5*100 on inclines, 5 miles easy last night and I know I should have rested tonight but couldn't face it on a Sat morning so did my LSR a day early. Am delighted. Went to the Phoenix Park and all the way down Chesterfield Avenue, down Kyber Hill and up and around the S bends and then back to Chesterfield Avenue and out again. I've never run in the park unless it is an organised run and great to actually see the park and enjoy it.
Really enjoyed I got over the fear of the S bends pre 10 mile.
I noticed as I left the Park that my ankles were getting sore so realised if I actually lifted legs higher or flipped heels on each step pain eased.
I've a physio appointment tomorrow for back pain. I don't think I'm doing enough stretches for myself and foam rolling either but in the last 4 days I've run 30 miles and that is a first so I'm very pleased with myself.
Summary of 14m - Tme:2:15:32.3 Distance:14.00 Pace:9:41
Elevation Gain: 124 m
Elevation Loss: 120 m
Most other LSR have been:
Elevation Gain: 65 m
Elevation Loss: 69 m
P.S. I'd really like the DCM Novice T-shirt, how's that plan going?
Only two hello's and acknowledgement on the whole run!

AuldManKing

Just caught up on the last few weeks, great training going on.
Some great performances in the 10k's and the RnR, well done.
We even have a radio star

As usual Ososlo is playing a stormer.

Laois_Man

It's official. If I get to the start line of DCM this year, I'll have the honor of running the marathon in a Jake's Legacy campaign t-shirt (a version of it that's suitable to run a marathon in).

I was always really determined to get to the start line of DCM this year. But now I'm really really determined. This little man will drive me on!

Gavlor

Laois_Man wrote: »

It's official. If I get to the start line of DCM this year, I'll have the honor of running the marathon in a Jake's Legacy campaign t-shirt (a version of it that's suitable to run a marathon in).

I was always really determined to get to the start line of DCM this year. But now I'm really really determined. This little man will drive me on!

Good man. How that family are coping so well in the public domain is beyond me.

Ososlo

Laois_Man wrote: »

It's official. If I get to the start line of DCM this year, I'll have the honor of running the marathon in a Jake's Legacy campaign t-shirt (a version of it that's suitable to run a marathon in).

I was always really determined to get to the start line of DCM this year. But now I'm really really determined. This little man will drive me on!

Close to my heart too Laois_Man. A great honour indeed...

Joleigh

Suave I am also following HH intermediate 1 and I'm fairly wrecked. Having a 2 yr old that still wakes me at nite doesn't help! Doing my lsr this morning instead of tomorrow and I have a nite in a swanky hotel planned for tonight gels have never agreed with me so I'm afraid to try them this time around. I've been bringing a few jellies on lsr and taking them after about 6 miles. They give me a nice little boost but I don't know how they'll serve me in a marathon so I might need to find something else to take. No speed runs in my plan and I do feel like I'm missing out a bit. All this talk of strides and sessions is making me feel like I should be doing something else.