DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo · 09-08-2014 5:50pm

gingersnap wrote: »

Did 23km this morning and I'm feeling very tired now, actually have a weird, spaced out feeling. Maybe blood sugars are too low or something?

Did 6km on Monday, 7km club training on Tuesday which included hill reps and 12km club training on Thursday which included 6km tempo. I felt great on Thursday and really pushed myself but maybe I overdid it a bit as the legs were tired from the start of the LSR today and I struggled a lot in the second half of it. Still can't imagine doing the full marathon comfortably. I was thinking of aiming for 5 hours but don't know if that is even realistic!

I haven't tried the gels yet but I have tried the jelly beans which seemed to give me a boost for a while. I will have to try to take them at regular intervals and see if that helps. I still take a banana too for the LSR as I don't eat before I run and I'm usually starving at 10km!

I got a water belt which has loads of space and I did my last few long runs wearing it. It took a bit of time to get used to it but I don't notice it at all now.

Plan to do 5km recovery tomorrow and then that's it for another week. Another week closer to d-day.............

You've had a very tough week with 2 hard club sessions and a lsr so I'd say you're just very tired. I would have had a similar wiped-out feeling after some of my long slow runs last year. Maybe try having a good breakfast before the next run instead of doing it on empty and you might feel better in the hours after the run. You could also try bringing a sports drink with you on the run. I used to bring a bottle of lucozade sport diluted with half part water and a nuun tablet dropped in to it(to replace lost salts on the run) and found I felt much better in the hours after the run.
Great week, well done. If you're keeping up 2 club runs per week then make sure you're running very very easy in the days in-between. It's important you recover well between hard sessions.

gingersnap · 09-08-2014 7:47pm

Ososlo wrote: »

You've had a very tough week with 2 hard club sessions and a lsr so I'd say you're just very tired. I would have had a similar wiped-out feeling after some of my long slow runs last year. Maybe try having a good breakfast before the next run instead of doing it on empty and you might feel better in the hours after the run. You could also try bringing a sports drink with you on the run. I used to bring a bottle of lucozade sport diluted with half part water and a nuun tablet dropped in to it(to replace lost salts on the run) and found I felt much better in the hours after the run.
Great week, well done. If you're keeping up 2 club runs per week then make sure you're running very very easy in the days in-between. It's important you recover well between hard sessions.

Great advice there as usual Ososlo, thanks!
I'm going to see how the club goes over the next few weeks and maybe drop the Thursday session if I'm too tired on Saturday.

Dub13 · 09-08-2014 7:49pm

AuldManKing wrote: »

The key 2 sessions in those 2 weeks is the 20 mile run and then the 10 mile race. Everything else is secondary imo.

Having used the BAA plan myself, I'd swap the weeks around.
If you've raced these distances before or have been running for a couple of years, stick to the plan - the 10 miler wont be the best 10 miler you've ever ran, but it'll put you in super shape for the HM and then the Marathon.

If you're totally new to running then run the previous Thursdays tempo at the very top end (slower) of the range.

You might also need to watch how you feel for the following Tuesday session (after the 10 miler) - 5x1km at 10k pace is not great after a 10 mile race.
Personally I'd skip the session totally - you'll gain lots from the 10 miler itself.

As a 1st time marathoner (I assume?) - pace is not as important as endurance - so it wont impact too much missing the 5x1km - your recovery should be ok for the following weekends 20 miler - which is the key session out of the 2 weeks you have posted.
If you do the 5x1km - you may burn out for the 20 miler.
Just my advice.

Cheers for the sound advice, I will swap the weeks around and watch the tempo runs over the next couple of weeks.

Ososlo · 09-08-2014 8:03pm

gingersnap wrote: »

Great advice there as usual Ososlo, thanks!
I'm going to see how the club goes over the next few weeks and maybe drop the Thursday session if I'm too tired on Saturday.

Good idea. One session per week might be enough and from what I've heard/read, the tempo run might serve you better than the shorter intervals for marathon specific training.
What plan are you following? Is it a club plan? I don't have it listed in my secret spreadsheet of novices' details:D

Joleigh · 09-08-2014 11:04pm

Ososlo where do you buy the nuun tabs? I took water with me on this mornings lsr and €2 for an emergency sports drink which I was glad of in the end seeing as I got lost! ( sports drink or bus fare... Depending on how the run went).

Ososlo · 09-08-2014 11:11pm

Joleigh wrote: »

Ososlo where do you buy the nuun tabs? I took water with me on this mornings lsr and €2 for an emergency sports drink which I was glad of in the end seeing as I got lost! ( sports drink or bus fare... Depending on how the run went).

Hey I've bought them in the Amphibian King Stores (Ashtown and Ballymount) and online on Wiggle.
Good thinking bringing a few euro on the lsr for emergencies!

SeanPuddin · 10-08-2014 12:42am

The boards.ie marathon plan pushed me to a sub 40 sorry no sub 39 Streets of Galway today. Thank you all for being a marvellous bunch.

Report here: http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057171383/12/#post91655275

adrian522 · 10-08-2014 1:11am

Ososlo wrote: »

Hey I've bought them in the Amphibian King Stores (Ashtown and Ballymount) and online on Wiggle.
Good thinking bringing a few euro on the lsr for emergencies!

I always bring money for water.

I go through about 500ml per hour so it's not really in case of emergency but just as a matter of course.

frash · 10-08-2014 9:14am

Tried to do an 18m LSR run yesterday (longest having been 16m) but it started to go bad after 14 miles.
For the first 14m I was doing a pace of 11:30 but it started to slow down too much after that so I started walking once I hit 16 miles and took a short cut home so distance covered (including the walk) was 17 miles.

Maybe I tried to rush back into after the 2 week holiday?

Monday was a 9 mile run (incorporating the DLR10k) with 5 miles done on Wed & Thurs.

Legs stiff today so will try a recovery run tomorrow.

btw - picked the 11:30 LSR pace as hoping to run the marathon in 4:30 - that pace sound about right for this stage?

Pacing Mule · 10-08-2014 9:38am

Hi Frash

I was in a similar boat yesterday but I was only doing 12. Legs were hanging by the end and I too would have been walking by the time you did.

As I mentioned in my own log I copped afterwards that I had 4 runs in 6 days, highest mileage in a while, a hard race being one of them (and for me a pace session too midweek) All that adds up to a lot of work for the legs. No great surprise to struggle towards the end.

Next LSR off an easier base (no races etc in run up) will go a lot better.

chinguetti · 10-08-2014 9:48am

Folks, I've been dipping in and out of this training log since ye started off and well done to you all for the progress you've made and putting in the training. One thing that can't be stressed enough during your training is rest. As the miles go up, you need to rest just as much as what you run. Sometimes not doing a session is far more important than doing it.

Resting yourself is vital, over training is easily done and leads to injuries. A couple of hours extra sleep, a bath, a walk in the sea, a gentle swim, a day off, a massge are some of the things to consider.

Take it from someone who trained for a good few marathons in the last 6 years and only made the starting line for 3 of them. You have to manage your body and not let your training plan rule your life sometimes.

Good running and resting folks.

SoundoftheSea · 10-08-2014 12:20pm

Not sure if I should do my 12 mile LSR today. I have cramping/aches in my inner thigh and calf muscles for the last few days. I skipped 3 mile run on Friday so I have been resting, icing, stretching and strengthening. Its intermittent/burning.
I have an appointment with physio on Monday.
Any advice?
Also hydrating.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 2:16pm

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Not sure if I should do my 12 mile LSR today. I have cramping/aches in my inner thigh and calf muscles for the last few days. I skipped 3 mile run on Friday so I have been resting, icing, stretching and strengthening. Its intermittent/burning.
I have an appointment with physio on Monday.
Any advice?
Also hydrating.

Sorry was out running so only seeing this now. Maybe leave it and see what physio says tomorrow. It might be nothing but for the sake of a day maybe wait for diagnosis. Foam roll if you have one and careful with the stretching. Not sure if ice is the thing...

SoundoftheSea · 10-08-2014 2:29pm

Thanks Ososlo, hope you had a good run. I have also been form rolling so will stick with that and leave out the stretching and ice.
Feel like I have to keep moving and stretching when it cramps/burns.
Might try a walk.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 2:35pm

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo, hope you had a good run. I have also been form rolling so will stick with that and leave out the stretching and ice.
Feel like I have to keep moving and stretching when it cramps/burns.
Might try a walk.

If the stretching is alleviating it then maybe do a little just don't overdo anything. I'm really not qualified to give you advice except to error on the side of caution. Good luck with physio and report back. You might just need a bit of rest.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 3:31pm

SeanPuddin wrote: »

The boards.ie marathon plan pushed me to a sub 40 sorry no sub 39 Streets of Galway today. Thank you all for being a marvellous bunch.

Report here: http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057171383/12/#post91655275

Fantastic Sean and well deserved. Your hard training is paying dividends. Well done and recover well.

KillianByrne · 10-08-2014 3:43pm

20m LSR done at stupid o clock for a Sunday morning. Plan was for 10min miles, actual 9.58.

Ran with a group which was great as I'd say wouldn't have completed it, on pace, alone. The last 3miles were tough with 2 short walks (15yds at most) clocking up a 10:10, 10:42 and 10:35 to finish.

But its done, I'm delighted its done and I'm actually looking forward to doing it again in due course.

Step back week next week after a series of fairly taxing runs that will need to see the body get a bit of rest in.

Garmin Data HERE

Joleigh · 10-08-2014 4:28pm

KillianByrne wrote: »

20m LSR done at stupid o clock for a Sunday morning. Plan was for 10min miles, actual 9.58.

Ran with a group which was great as I'd say wouldn't have completed it, on pace, alone. The last 3miles were tough with 2 short walks (15yds at most) clocking up a 10:10, 10:42 and 10:35 to finish.

But its done, I'm delighted its done and I'm actually looking forward to doing it again in due course.

Step back week next week after a series of fairly taxing runs that will need to see the body get a bit of rest in.

Garmin Data HERE

Hi killian. Well done on the 20m. Did you go clontarf to dun laoghaire then get the dart back? I'm interested in any long routes around Dublin. Trying to make mine up as I go along.

scheister · 10-08-2014 4:28pm

Monday: I ran the Rock n Roll Half marathon to read about this see my earlier post.

Wednesday: This was going to be an interesting run as it would be my 1st run in Dundalk so while running i was all so looking for a route that i could use in the future. The pace was not to bad overall 9:44,9:45,9:37, 9:56,9:53,9:57. So i went out a little fast but the paces are not to bad overall and I now have a nice 2 mile route I use in the rest of my training.

Friday was stride running, it was 4 mile with 5*50 yard strides. normally these are done in a field or running track so I don't run into people when I speed up but I have not found this area in Dundalk yet so it was on a path while trying to time it so I don't knock people over. Normally this is done over 6 miles not 4 so was hard to have less easy running time in between runs but overall it was quite a nice session

Saturday was speed training. It was mile slow 2 mile fast and mile slow. the paces were fairly level here with the 2 slows being 9:00 and 9:05 and the fast miles being 7:11 and 7:18. While in the beginning I did not enjoy these runs I am starting to enjoy them a lot and will be interesting to see how I feel when it goes to 1:3:1. Only bit I did not enjoy was getting soaked for the last mile or so.

Sunday was going to be an interesting run and it would be my second time in the week covering the Half marathon distance. the pace was steady enough staying between 10:11 and 10:30 bar the miles that had water stops in them. Overall while this was a very wet run I did not mind it as I found it a very refreshing run.

The Wednesday figure in bold has to be adjusted as their was not moving time in their that strava has not counted so I will have to check my Garmin connect later and get the real figure. But another week down and my biggest week so far in terms of mileage so not to bad

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 4:29pm

frash wrote: »

Tried to do an 18m LSR run yesterday (longest having been 16m) but it started to go bad after 14 miles.
For the first 14m I was doing a pace of 11:30 but it started to slow down too much after that so I started walking once I hit 16 miles and took a short cut home so distance covered (including the walk) was 17 miles.

Maybe I tried to rush back into after the 2 week holiday?

Monday was a 9 mile run (incorporating the DLR10k) with 5 miles done on Wed & Thurs.

Legs stiff today so will try a recovery run tomorrow.

btw - picked the 11:30 LSR pace as hoping to run the marathon in 4:30 - that pace sound about right for this stage?

Hi frash, yes the 11:30 sounds about right but to be honest, I wouldn't be too focused in trying to maintain a certain pace on the lsr. If you had started out at an even slower effort/pace today you probably would have been able to do the full 18 and not have had to walk. But in saying that, not every run will go 100% to plan (factor in the recent race and holidays too) so don't worry about it at all. You still did a great run yesterday. Well done. Try to focus more on effort rather than numbers on the clock for the next one and it should feel very comfortable from the start. Getting the miles under the belt and time on your feet is what's important.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 4:33pm

scheister wrote: »

Monday: I ran the Rock n Roll Half marathon to read about this see my earlier post.

Wednesday: This was going to be an interesting run as it would be my 1st run in Dundalk so while running i was all so looking for a route that i could use in the future. The pace was not to bad overall 9:44,9:45,9:37, 9:56,9:53,9:57. So i went out a little fast but the paces are not to bad overall and I now have a nice 2 mile route I use in the rest of my training.

Friday was stride running, it was 4 mile with 5*50 yard strides. normally these are done in a field or running track so I don't run into people when I speed up but I have not found this area in Dundalk yet so it was on a path while trying to time it so I don't knock people over. Normally this is done over 6 miles not 4 so was hard to have less easy running time in between runs but overall it was quite a nice session

Saturday was speed training. It was mile slow 2 mile fast and mile slow. the paces were fairly level here with the 2 slows being 9:00 and 9:05 and the fast miles being 7:11 and 7:18. While in the beginning I did not enjoy these runs I am starting to enjoy them a lot and will be interesting to see how I feel when it goes to 1:3:1. Only bit I did not enjoy was getting soaked for the last mile or so.

Sunday was going to be an interesting run and it would be my second time in the week covering the Half marathon distance. the pace was steady enough staying between 10:11 and 10:30 bar the miles that had water stops in them. Overall while this was a very wet run I did not mind it as I found it a very refreshing run.

The Wednesday figure in bold has to be adjusted as their was not moving time in their that strava has not counted so I will have to check my Garmin connect later and get the real figure. But another week down and my biggest week so far in terms of mileage so not to bad

Great week, fair play!
What plan are you following? Nice fast miles session there!

gingersnap · 10-08-2014 4:34pm

Ososlo wrote: »

Good idea. One session per week might be enough and from what I've heard/read, the tempo run might serve you better than the shorter intervals for marathon specific training.
What plan are you following? Is it a club plan? I don't have it listed in my secret spreadsheet of novices' details:D

My plan is a mix of a few plans

I got it from the club and I tweaked it a little.
Monday is a medium run, currently at 5 miles and maxing at 10.
Tuesday and Thursday are club training (for now) with an extra couple of miles by myself before the session.
Wednesday is cross training which is usually a couple of miles walk with the kids.
Friday is a rest day, Saturday a long run and Sunday a 3 mile recovery.
There's one 20 and one 22 mile run on the plan.
Depending on how I am at that stage, I might change the 22 to 20.
I'm currently at about 30 miles per week, building up to 5 weeks of 40 miles before the taper.

scheister · 10-08-2014 4:35pm

Ososlo wrote: »

Great week, fair play!
What plan are you following? Nice fast miles session there!

Following the plan that was in the Irish Runner with couple of extra races thrown in.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 4:37pm

gingersnap wrote: »

My plan is a mix of a few plans I got it from the club and I tweaked it a little.
Monday is a medium run, currently at 5 miles and maxing at 10.
Tuesday and Thursday are club training (for now) with an extra couple of miles by myself before the session.
Wednesday is cross training which is usually a couple of miles walk with the kids.
Friday is a rest day, Saturday a long run and Sunday a 3 mile recovery.
There's one 20 and one 22 mile run on the plan.
Depending on how I am at that stage, I might change the 22 to 20.
I'm currently at about 30 miles per week, building up to 5 weeks of 40 miles before the taper.

Sounds great! I wouldn't worry too much about going over 20 miles for the lsr.
5 x 40 is great mileage to be doing.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 4:42pm

scheister wrote: »

Following the plan that was in the Irish Runner with couple of extra races thrown in.

Great stuff, just saw your log there. Great idea to have your own log to document all your training for your marathon. It'll be great to look back on for the next one!

scheister · 10-08-2014 4:44pm

Ososlo wrote: »

Great stuff, just saw your log there. Great idea to have your own log to document all your training for your marathon. It'll be great to look back on for the next one!

If I can get my sub 4 hour DCM next plan is to step up to triathlons and complete the Dublin Half Iron man next year so it will help with the running part so i dont make the same mistakes again

laura_ac3 · 10-08-2014 5:22pm

Hi all,

Another week done - they really are flying by.

Sunday- rest day.

Monday - easy 4 miles.

Tuesday - 7 miles. I had the day off work so headed to the park for this one. Ended up running at midday and happened to be there in one of the windows of sun so was warmer than I thought. Glad I had the water on me.

Wednesday - 4 miles. Threw in a few strides like the boards plan has just for the "fun" and to try help mix up my paces in running. Did 5 x 100.

Thursday and Friday - rest days. Well, with work commute cycling. One hour each day.

Saturday - supposed to be my LSR but had a bit too much wine the night before :rolleyes: felt fine waking up except for a thirst, slight light headiness and mild headache. Figured I was dehydrated so thought it best to not start off my run that way. Into unchartered territory now with these runs so decided to play it safe. Did a 4 mile run from next weeks plan instead of taking another rest day.

Sunday - 16 mile LSR. Bang on the button for 3 hours. Kept the pace much more consistent - in or around 11.20/11.30 for the whole thing. Did the last mile at PMP. Took in military hill, the s bends, upper glen road etc from both sides as an out and back route so was delighted to combine the distance with hills. Nasty wind at times but nothing too bad, I was definitely out in the better part of the day. Was definitely feeling it in the last couple of miles but happy with it overall. I was encouraging myself on with thoughts of the positivity from here. So thank you all - I was out by myself but knew I wasn't at the same time if that makes sense

oh and I tried my gels. No problems. Took one after an hour and the second an hour later. Hmmm, gloopy

no ill effects so not sure yet whether to experiment with others or stick with those. I'll see.

No squash or football this week. Had thought of adding in another short run but the legs were feeling heavy so took the extra rest day and I was glad I did. Even on the 4 miles yesterday they felt leggy but by today they were much fresher. Feeling stiff now so will do some foam rolling this evening.

Keep up the good work everyone, great to see how everyone is getting on. Happy running and good luck with keeping the patience for anyone with niggles.

KillianByrne · 10-08-2014 5:27pm

Joleigh wrote: »

Hi killian. Well done on the 20m. Did you go clontarf to dun laoghaire then get the dart back? I'm interested in any long routes around Dublin. Trying to make mine up as I go along.

Ta, the other way around actually. It's about 11miles from the East Pier in Dun Laoghaire to the bridge for the golf club (Royal Dublin?) we had several in the group on different plans so each runner just peels off at their specific half way and heads back. 2 were doing 14miles so went to 11 and ran back to the DART & took that home.

Everyone then meets up in a cafe for refuelling & a chat.

Ososlo · 10-08-2014 5:39pm

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Hi all,

Sunday - 16 mile LSR. Bang on the button for 3 hours. Kept the pace much more consistent - in or around 11.20/11.30 for the whole thing. Did the last mile at PMP. Took in military hill, the s bends, upper glen road etc from both sides as an out and back route so was delighted to combine the distance with hills. Nasty wind at times but nothing too bad, I was definitely out in the better part of the day. Was definitely feeling it in the last couple of miles but happy with it overall. I was encouraging myself on with thoughts of the positivity from here. So thank you all - I was out by myself but knew I wasn't at the same time if that makes sense oh and I tried my gels. No problems. Took one after an hour and the second an hour later. Hmmm, gloopy no ill effects so not sure yet whether to experiment with others or stick with those. I'll see.

No squash or football this week. Had thought of adding in another short run but the legs were feeling heavy so took the extra rest day and I was glad I did. Even on the 4 miles yesterday they felt leggy but by today they were much fresher. Feeling stiff now so will do some foam rolling this evening.

Keep up the good work everyone, great to see how everyone is getting on. Happy running and good luck with keeping the patience for anyone with niggles.

Great week! Good idea throwing in the strides every now and again and I like that you had enough left in the tank at the end of the lsr to do a marathon pace mile. Including those hills in the park will really stand to you. Delighted to hear you'd no issues with the gels. Everything's going great for you!

annapr · 10-08-2014 6:01pm

Tuesday... Feeling very smug after nailing last week's stepback week (thanks Hal), I set off for the prescribed 3 miles... quickly remembered why Donegal is known as 'the Hills'... between uncharacteristic strong sun and said hills, any smugness quickly evaporated...

Wednesday... 6 miles in one of the most beautiful places to run... 3 miles down St John's Point near Dunkineely and back. Lots of hills but boosted by spectacular views of Donegal Bay from Ben Bulben to Sliabh Liag, light breeze and sun going out... turned around and started to feel hot, only to be belted by a heavy shower off the Atlantic. Lovely at that stage, cooled me down! Great to run on roads where I was passed by maybe 6 cars the whole time.

Friday... 5k/3miles along the more sedate and thankfully flatter Clontarf seafront.

Sunday... 12m lsr, longest so far and I am feeling all the muscles in my legs and feet right now. Did the first 10k with my much faster hubby, who was doing a mere 20m today. Great route that he has explored through the docks, then along the Dodder as far as Dartry Park, where i turned back and he sped on to Tallaght or somewhere ridiculously far away. Averaged 10:13 min/mile (me, not him) or my more familiar 6:12 min/Km... felt a little fast for an LSR, probably because he was pacing me to 6:10 for the first half. Worried about a sharp twinge in my ankle around 8m in for a few hundred metres, but thankfully went away again.

Took a gel after an hour, didn't notice any difference... still felt knackered towards the end. But 12.11 mi in 2:03:37 is well ahead of my half marathon pace last year and would put me on track for a 2:15 half, so that's encouraging.

Also... it's just fantastic to run beside Dublin Bay and Donegal Bay in one week... not to mention crossing the Tolka, Grand Canal, Royal Canal, Dodder and Liffey today! You see the city differently from the river banks. Even better, managed to fit the run in between the torrential rain and thunderstorms and was home in time to watch the hurling.

DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

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