DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

Tuesday... Feeling very smug after nailing last week's stepback week (thanks Hal), I set off for the prescribed 3 miles... quickly remembered why Donegal is known as 'the Hills'... between uncharacteristic strong sun and said hills, any smugness quickly evaporated...

Wednesday... 6 miles in one of the most beautiful places to run... 3 miles down St John's Point near Dunkineely and back. Lots of hills but boosted by spectacular views of Donegal Bay from Ben Bulben to Sliabh Liag, light breeze and sun going out... turned around and started to feel hot, only to be belted by a heavy shower off the Atlantic. Lovely at that stage, cooled me down! Great to run on roads where I was passed by maybe 6 cars the whole time.

Friday... 5k/3miles along the more sedate and thankfully flatter Clontarf seafront.

Sunday... 12m lsr, longest so far and I am feeling all the muscles in my legs and feet right now. Did the first 10k with my much faster hubby, who was doing a mere 20m today. Great route that he has explored through the docks, then along the Dodder as far as Dartry Park, where i turned back and he sped on to Tallaght or somewhere ridiculously far away. Averaged 10:13 min/mile (me, not him) or my more familiar 6:12 min/Km... felt a little fast for an LSR, probably because he was pacing me to 6:10 for the first half. Worried about a sharp twinge in my ankle around 8m in for a few hundred metres, but thankfully went away again.

Took a gel after an hour, didn't notice any difference... still felt knackered towards the end. But 12.11 mi in 2:03:37 is well ahead of my half marathon pace last year and would put me on track for a 2:15 half, so that's encouraging.

Also... it's just fantastic to run beside Dublin Bay and Donegal Bay in one week... not to mention crossing the Tolka, Grand Canal, Royal Canal, Dodder and Liffey today! You see the city differently from the river banks. Even better, managed to fit the run in between the torrential rain and thunderstorms and was home in time to watch the hurling.

ah it makes sense now. I think I've figured out who Mr. annpr is:D
Great week!

annapr

Ososlo wrote: »

ah it makes sense now. I think I've figured out who Mr. annpr is:D
Great week!

Well spotted! So much for anonymity :-)

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

Well spotted! So much for anonymity :-)

hee hee:D Great to have your own personal coach and pacer for some of your runs!!!

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

Great week! Good idea throwing in the strides every now and again and I like that you had enough left in the tank at the end of the lsr to do a marathon pace mile. Including those hills in the park will really stand to you. Delighted to hear you'd no issues with the gels. Everything's going great for you!

Thanks Ososlo. Figured that getting used to those hills on longer runs will help prepare for different parts of the route. I think my desire to just get home spurred me on in the end! Each lsr I think...how am I going to go further than this next week but I guess you just find a way.

I've read about the benefits of running slow - both on your initial couple of posts and elsewhere - but the reality of the marathon pace is unnerving at times. It occurs to me usually at the end of the long runs when I wonder to myself how am I going to faster than this, for alot longer and with an unknown 6 miles thrown in at the end.

I do try not to get bogged down with it and just take each week as they come, one lsr at a time and trust in the plan and the training. I just find the unknown pace element of it a bit hard to get a grip of if that makes sense. Hopefully the 10 mile and half marathon will help give me an idea of how I'm fixed.

frash

laura_ac3 wrote: »

I've read about the benefits of running slow - both on your initial couple of posts and elsewhere - but the reality of the marathon pace is unnerving at times. It occurs to me usually at the end of the long runs when I wonder to myself how am I going to faster than this, for alot longer and with an unknown 6 miles thrown in at the end.

You're not alone with these thoughts as I often have them too!

Laois_Man

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo. Figured that getting used to those hills on longer runs will help prepare for different parts of the route. I think my desire to just get home spurred me on in the end! Each lsr I think...how am I going to go further than this next week but I guess you just find a way.

I've read about the benefits of running slow - both on your initial couple of posts and elsewhere - but the reality of the marathon pace is unnerving at times. It occurs to me usually at the end of the long runs when I wonder to myself how am I going to faster than this, for alot longer and with an unknown 6 miles thrown in at the end.

I do try not to get bogged down with it and just take each week as they come, one lsr at a time and trust in the plan and the training. I just find the unknown pace element of it a bit hard to get a grip of if that makes sense. Hopefully the 10 mile and half marathon will help give me an idea of how I'm fixed.

Was gonna say the same thing as Frash. And also, think back a few weeks ago when your LSR was 10 or 12 miles and you didn't know where you'd manage to find another 4 or 6 from.... and now you can.

What gels did you use and did you feel a kick from them?

SoundoftheSea

Ok after my post this morning I decided to put the gear on and go for a little run and maybe walk if struggling. Wanted to see how I got on as I realised my physio appointment is not until tuesday and didn't want to miss another run.
Took lucozade with me and started out nice and slow. 5 miles in and feeling very comfortable I went for it and completed 12 miles.
10.43
11.59
12.36
12.27
13.33 (pee stop in my local cafe)
12.28
12.41
12.21
12.20
11.58
12.23
12.07

So happy I did it and the lucozade definitely helped, Knees ached after mile 8 with the burst of energy from the lucozade I pushed on.
Lots of hills and very heavy showers.

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

Ok after my post this morning I decided to put the gear on and go for a little run and maybe walk if struggling. Wanted to see how I got on as I realised my physio appointment is not until tuesday and didn't want to miss another run.
Took lucozade with me and started out nice and slow. 5 miles in and feeling very comfortable I went for it and completed 12 miles.
10.43
11.59
12.36
12.27
13.33 (pee stop in my local cafe)
12.28
12.41
12.21
12.20
11.58
12.23
12.07

So happy I did it and the lucozade definitely helped, Knees ached after mile 8 with the burst of energy from the lucozade I pushed on.
Lots of hills and very heavy showers.

Fair play to ya! Things can't be too bad so!

SoundoftheSea

Ososlo wrote: »

Fair play to ya! Things can't be too bad so!

Thanks Ososlo
I guess i was worrying about nothing. At least if I am told to rest after physio I have that LSR in the bag. Maybe I just have to get use to cramping muscles etc. I was having a easy time so far.

bucketybuck

Has anybody ever had trouble with pain on the top of their feet?

Not looking for medical advice or anything, but this last few weeks I have started to get a pain along the top of my left foot, but heres the thing, its only when I am at rest! It never bothers me at all when I am running, but later on when the shoes are off thats when it gets sore.

It can't be a coincidence that it has developed since I started the serious running, so I wonder have any other runners experienced a similar problem?

laura_ac3

Laois_Man wrote: »

Was gonna say the same thing as Frash. And also, think back a few weeks ago when your LSR was 10 or 12 miles and you didn't know where you'd manage to find another 4 or 6 from.... and now you can.

What gels did you use and did you feel a kick from them?

I did indeed! And it is reassuring. I have found myself employing mantras such as "I'm feeling strong and I'm feeling fresh" when I'm anything but probably and today I broke it down into 3 x 5 mile segments with an extra mile to make it seem more manageable. It all helps I hope.

Used the high 5 ones, orange flavour. I thought the first one helped but that could have been in my head. Didn't think I felt much effect from the second but I did finish strong with a PMP mile so who knows.

Dub13

LSL done this morning of 30k @ 9:56 min/mi (6:10 per KM).

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/561625167

That's a 98.5 km week, slightly down on last week.

Ososlo

Week 8 is up on the Spreadsheet.
If you're following Hal and are not doing the prescribed Half Marathon this week (I doubt anyone is as I don't think there are any on this weekend!), I've tweaked the plan a bit for this week and tweaked it again for those doing the 10 Mile Race Series and Half Marathon in Week 13. There's a new sheet on the Spreadsheet called 'Halwith10&Half'
For the Boards Plan people, you've your longest lsr yet at 17 miles!!!! If anyone is struggling a bit, don't be afraid to drop the mid-week pace run and just run it at easy effort or move it to the Tuesday instead. The long runs take more out of some people than others so don't be afraid to tweak the plan a bit to suit yourself. Chinguetti gave some really good advice earlier on the importance of rest and recovery. It really is half the battle as if you're burned out you won't be able to perform well. Take an extra day off if you feel you need it. And please keep the effort of the easy runs really really easy. A massage is also a really good idea to iron out any niggles and give your body a little treat. Be kind to your body. You're asking a lot of it when you're new to running these distances!
Good luck all with the week ahead.

Laois_Man

When I say I am gonna leave it 'til the last minute to sign up for a race, I really do mean it. I just registered for the Frank Duffy 10 with less than an hour to spare.

I wasn't sure it was a goer for me until I did this evenings 5 miles. In fact, I'm still not certain. But what's done is done and I really do need a race at this point to figure out where I am at.....hopefully I can do it niggle free, otherwise it might be a bit of a useless exercise.

Because the right hamstring discomfort was there again when I got out of bed yesterday morning after Friday afternoons LSR....and yet again, it disappeared after about 3 miles running this evening.

Joleigh

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo. Figured that getting used to those hills on longer runs will help prepare for different parts of the route. I think my desire to just get home spurred me on in the end! Each lsr I think...how am I going to go further than this next week but I guess you just find a way.

I've read about the benefits of running slow - both on your initial couple of posts and elsewhere - but the reality of the marathon pace is unnerving at times. It occurs to me usually at the end of the long runs when I wonder to myself how am I going to faster than this, for alot longer and with an unknown 6 miles thrown in at the end.

I do try not to get bogged down with it and just take each week as they come, one lsr at a time and trust in the plan and the training. I just find the unknown pace element of it a bit hard to get a grip of if that makes sense. Hopefully the 10 mile and half marathon will help give me an idea of how I'm fixed.

Laura I also find the idea of marathon pace quite daunting, even though I'm not sure yet what my marathon pace is! I ran 1 marathon back in 2008 but was so clueless at the time, I was just happy to finish. I read yesterday that you should run the first half of the marathon at a slower pace to save yourself for the second half, but by then will we not be feeling wrecked anyway regardless of weather we do the first half on pace or 10 seconds slower per mile.

Joleigh

bucketybuck wrote: »

Has anybody ever had trouble with pain on the top of their feet?

Not looking for medical advice or anything, but this last few weeks I have started to get a pain along the top of my left foot, but heres the thing, its only when I am at rest! It never bothers me at all when I am running, but later on when the shoes are off thats when it gets sore.

It can't be a coincidence that it has developed since I started the serious running, so I wonder have any other runners experienced a similar problem?

I sometimes get this. I read that when you are sitting you should spell out the alphabet with your feet to get your ankles working and help with flexibility. 1 foot at a time....2 might be a bit awkward

Casey78

Bit worried about sustaining marathon pace myself. I am aiming for a sub 4 hr(though in reality I'll be delighted just to finish!)
Sub 4 is about 9'08 per mile. I managed 8'40 per mile for 7 miles on Saturday but the thought of doing it for 26 miles is daunting!
My plan is to follow the 4hr pacer and see how I go.
I will know better after the half marathon in September where I will be aiming for sub 2hrs. If I don't manage it I will have to re think my Marathon time goal.
Anyone know if there are pacers in the half marathon?

adrian522

There are pacers for the half, most of them probably from this forum

Question for you though, if you are aiming for Sub 4 why are you running sessions @ 8:40? I would have thought 9 mins per mile would be what you should aim for in order to give you a little leeway.

After running 8:40 I think 9 min miles would seem a good bit easier and would build up the confidence. Don't forget also that we have 11 weeks to the race so you will be a good bit fitter by then and we will also have 3 or 4 weeks of taper so will be a good bit fresher.

Don't be too daunted by the prospect of 26 miles at this stage just trust in the plan.

Casey78

adrian522 wrote: »

There are pacers for the half, most of them probably from this forum

Question for you though, if you are aiming for Sub 4 why are you running sessions @ 8:40? I would have thought 9 mins per mile would be what you should aim for in order to give you a little leeway.

After running 8:40 I think 9 min miles would seem a good bit easier and would build up the confidence. Don't forget also that we have 11 weeks to the race so you will be a good bit fitter by then and we will also have 3 or 4 weeks of taper so will be a good bit fresher.

Don't be too daunted by the prospect of 26 miles at this stage just trust in the plan.

I wasn't aiming for 8'40 I was running by heart rate which I was keeping in the 80-85% zone for a pace run. It was only when I finished I checked my pace.

adrian522

All very good in that case. If you are not struggling to do sub 9 min miles at this stage I think sub 4 is certainly achievable.

What pacers would you go with in the half? 2 Hours would mean running the whole thing at Marathon pace.

Ososlo

Folks just a word on marathon pace. For your first marathon you should be running mp in training at your current mp/ability not your aspired to mp. Different plans may differ but for the boards plan this is what you do.
We all might want to run a marathon at 9 min miles but it might not be realistic for you. It may be realistic in October or maybe not at all.
Run marathon pace at a slightly faster effort than easy runs or use McMillan to work it out based on a recent race but run to the slower end of his mp prediction as he's way too ambitious for first time marathoners.
Marathon pace shouldn't feel very hard as you do have to run 26.2 miles at that pace

Casey78

adrian522 wrote: »

All very good in that case. If you are not struggling to do sub 9 min miles at this stage I think sub 4 is certainly achievable.

What pacers would you go with in the half? 2 Hours would mean running the whole thing at Marathon pace.

Wasn't a struggle at all and I felt great during and after run.
I will probably follow the 2hr pacer in the half, but I'll see closer the time as it's still a good few weeks away.
What would the next pacer be? 1:45?

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

I wasn't aiming for 8'40 I was running by heart rate which I was keeping in the 80-85% zone for a pace run. It was only when I finished I checked my pace.

What are you basing the % of max hr on casey? How did you get the max? Apologies if you told me already!

Casey78

Ososlo wrote: »

What are you basing the % of max hr on casey? How did you get the max? Apologies if you told me already!

I did a half an hour of fast sprints and hill runs.
The highest reading I recorded was 203. My resting heart was 52.
So using the calculations in the book The complete idiots guide to heart rate training I was able work out the different zones etc.
Btw for anyone interested in heart rate training (I'm a huge fan if it) that book I mentioned is excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1891369849?pc_redir=1407581086&robot_redir=1

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

I did a half an hour of fast sprints and hill runs.
The highest reading I recorded was 203. My resting heart was 52.
So using the calculations in the book The complete idiots guide to heart rate training I was able work out the different zones etc.
Btw for anyone interested in heart rate training (I'm a huge fan if it) that book I mentioned is excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1891369849?pc_redir=1407581086&robot_redir=1

Did you ever try reaching it again in a race or anything to confirm it's correct and not a spike?
Sounds like you're running to the correct effort levels anyways.
I used to keep easy and recovery at sub 75% of max and that worked well for me.

Pm1e

Can anyone give me a advice on relief for serious glute pain, (I know injuries generally have no quick fixes) but anything at all.....

adrian522

If the pain is serious then talk to your physio.

Nurofen would give temporary relief but you need to sort out the underlying problem.

Casey78

I did a 5k park run a few weeks ago and hit 202 near the end so I'd say my sums are pretty much spot on.
BTW since I've started heart rate training my personal bests for 5k and 10k have gone down by nearly 2 mins each.

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

I did a 5k park run a few weeks ago and hit 202 near the end so I'd say my sums are pretty much spot on.
BTW since I've started heart rate training my personal bests for 5k and 10k have gone down by nearly 2 mins each.

Cool. Sounds like you have it all under control! Well done on the pbs!

Ososlo

Pm1e wrote: »

Can anyone give me a advice on relief for serious glute pain, (I know injuries generally have no quick fixes) but anything at all.....

Foam rolling is good and might ease it a little but serious pain needs to be checked out by a professional