DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

MKDTH

Well after four days resting my calf niggle I went for a run yesterday clocking up 5.5 miles 10.22 average pace.

I tried out two static stretches beforehand which seemed okay, and then did my old stretches after the run (which I previously used to do before a race).

My legs felt a little stiff this morning, but my calf held up so I went out and did 2.7 miles at 11.03 average pace with half of which in a headwind.

I'm off to England for two days drinking and eating crap to see MK Dons v Afc Wimbledon so will then get my head down and train hard again.

One thing I have decided is that I will only run three days in a row as a maximum before having a rest day for the remainder of this training plan. That five days in a row really messed up my plan with the niggle it caused!

Another thing to catch my attention was that I have noticed this week that I've said that I was on Hal 1, when in fact I am using a John Mackenzie plan.

I recall toying with the idea of about 3 or 4 different plans, stuck this one on a spreadsheet, but forgot the name of it. It seems quite similar to the others so I assume this is no biggy?

Has anyone else had experience of using the 'TRAINING FOR YOUR FIRST MARATHON -- developed for ADA's Team Diabetes program
(NOTE: ADA phased out its Team Diabetes program, but these training principles are still valid!)
by John Mackenzie'?

I'm not Diabetic so that was not the reason for this choice.

gingersnap

bucketybuck wrote: »

Has anybody ever had trouble with pain on the top of their feet?

Not looking for medical advice or anything, but this last few weeks I have started to get a pain along the top of my left foot, but heres the thing, its only when I am at rest! It never bothers me at all when I am running, but later on when the shoes are off thats when it gets sore.

It can't be a coincidence that it has developed since I started the serious running, so I wonder have any other runners experienced a similar problem?

I used to get pain like this a lot when I started running and in my case, it was due to having the wrong runners. I got a gait analysis done and got fitted for new shoes and haven't had it since.
I've read it could also be simply due to tying the laces too tight.
Hope you figure out what is causing it for you.

bucketybuck

gingersnap wrote: »

I used to get pain like this a lot when I started running and in my case, it was due to having the wrong runners. I got a gait analysis done and got fitted for new shoes and haven't had it since.
I've read it could also be simply due to tying the laces too tight.
Hope you figure out what is causing it for you.

I got gait analysis done last year, but not before buying my latest pair of runners when starting training in July, so I'm not able to say 100% that these are the correct runners for me.

What I can say though is that my current runners really are brilliant when out on the road. I had a pair of Brooks previously and I used to have sore soles of my feet, but I have absolutely no trouble at all with these ones, its like running on air.

I think I'd be gutted to find out that despite being so comfortable they were causing my hassle afterwards!

hillsiderunner

So unfortunately my five weeks of consistent training didn't bring the desired result at Saturday's half-marathon in the Scottish borders. Factors of sun, wind and indigestion all came into play..... The weekend's cool & wet weather broke around lunchtime on the day, and the sun started to beam down on us as we set off on the roads. Also there was a fairly strong breeze which was active for the middle half of the run.

I'd had a slightly delicate stomach all that morning but was feeling good as we set out, and did the first 6 miles at about 8:30 pace on average, and mile 7 at about 9min pace. At the 7mile mark I took my first bottle of water and downed most of it, as by then I was feeling quite hot. But after that I experienced some stomach cramps for miles 8-10, and ended up adding walk breaks to offset this (the bouncing up and down was making it worse). So those miles were all 10-11min pace :-(. I felt better after that and was able to run the final few miles at about 8:45. Anyhow my plan for a sub 1hr-50 changed into an dash to rescue a sub-2hr - and was just a couple of minutes below that. A disappointment because I've run my recent 12-miler training runs at the same or even slightly better pace, on hillier terrain. I'm trying to look on the bright side that in the past a "disaster half" would have ended up being well over 2hrs time-wise.

I do a lot of my running in the evening, so am not so good at handling sunshine. I should probably have added 15secs or so to the goal pace (8:22) for the weather I think. But also my water-drinking strategies were way off. I only took a few sips of water before I set out because my stomach was still a bit sensitive - but given that I usually I drink a pint before any run, this was a bad strategy for a hot day.

So the lesson is that I probably need to do a few long runs in the sunshine, and to make a water-drop so I can practice drinking strategies :-).

This week's running (total 24.5miles):

Tuesday: 2miles (w/u,c/d) + 5x650m at 2:42-2:43 each (7min pace)) with 3mins rest.
Thursday: 3.5 miles at 8:30 pace
Saturday: 13.1miles at 9:00min "average" pace
Monday: 4miles EZ at 9:00 pace

Next weekend I'm going to try 14-15miles for my long run. But even at this point I'm feeling pretty unsure about DCM being a real possibility ... I think I will probably need some extra weeks to build up the distance and will probably be looking for a Spring marathon instead (not Connemara though!). I'm sorry about this because Dublin seems like the perfect marathon, but am not sure I'll be ready.

Pm1e

Ososlo wrote: »

Foam rolling is good and might ease it a little but serious pain needs to be checked out by a professional

Yeah Ill get on that tonight, :eek:

SeanPuddin

Fixed the mileage tracker, seems Laura tried to snuff out ChadHogan, and Adrian's near 500km were wiped. Please let me know if I messed anything up.

Darren 83

hillsiderunner wrote: »

So unfortunately my five weeks of consistent training didn't bring the desired result at Saturday's half-marathon in the Scottish borders. Factors of sun, wind and indigestion all came into play..... The weekend's cool & wet weather broke around lunchtime on the day, and the sun started to beam down on us as we set off on the roads. Also there was a fairly strong breeze which was active for the middle half of the run.

I'd had a slightly delicate stomach all that morning but was feeling good as we set out, and did the first 6 miles at about 8:30 pace on average, and mile 7 at about 9min pace. At the 7mile mark I took my first bottle of water and downed most of it, as by then I was feeling quite hot. But after that I experienced some stomach cramps for miles 8-10, and ended up adding walk breaks to offset this (the bouncing up and down was making it worse). So those miles were all 10-11min pace :-(. I felt better after that and was able to run the final few miles at about 8:45. Anyhow my plan for a sub 1hr-50 changed into an dash to rescue a sub-2hr - and was just a couple of minutes below that. A disappointment because I've run my recent 12-miler training runs at the same or even slightly better pace, on hillier terrain. I'm trying to look on the bright side that in the past a "disaster half" would have ended up being well over 2hrs time-wise.

I do a lot of my running in the evening, so am not so good at handling sunshine. I should probably have added 15secs or so to the goal pace (8:22) for the weather I think. But also my water-drinking strategies were way off. I only took a few sips of water before I set out because my stomach was still a bit sensitive - but given that I usually I drink a pint before any run, this was a bad strategy for a hot day.

So the lesson is that I probably need to do a few long runs in the sunshine, and to make a water-drop so I can practice drinking strategies :-).

This week's running (total 24.5miles):

Tuesday: 2miles (w/u,c/d) + 5x650m at 2:42-2:43 each (7min pace)) with 3mins rest.
Thursday: 3.5 miles at 8:30 pace
Saturday: 13.1miles at 9:00min "average" pace
Monday: 4miles EZ at 9:00 pace

Next weekend I'm going to try 14-15miles for my long run. But even at this point I'm feeling pretty unsure about DCM being a real possibility ... I think I will probably need some extra weeks to build up the distance and will probably be looking for a Spring marathon instead (not Connemara though!). I'm sorry about this because Dublin seems like the perfect marathon, but am not sure I'll be ready.

I wouldn't let one race determine doing DCM, you are in great shape and have plenty of time to build on that.

hillsiderunner

Darren 83 wrote: »

I wouldn't let one race determine doing DCM, you are in great shape and have plenty of time to build on that.

Thanks Darren.

In ok shape for the the shorter distances, but next weekend will be the first run over 13.1miles (of my life!). So a lot of ground to make up so to speak. Anyway, I'll take a look again at it next Monday...

Laois_Man

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Thanks Darren.

In ok shape for the the shorter distances, but next weekend will be the first run over 13.1miles (of my life!). So a lot of ground to make up so to speak. Anyway, I'll take a look again at it next Monday...

The Hal Higdon N1 plan doesn't hit more than that until week 10
HHN2 and even HHI1 have only hit 14 miles now

You're grand!

Ososlo

hillsiderunner wrote: »

So unfortunately my five weeks of consistent training didn't bring the desired result at Saturday's half-marathon in the Scottish borders. Factors of sun, wind and indigestion all came into play..... The weekend's cool & wet weather broke around lunchtime on the day, and the sun started to beam down on us as we set off on the roads. Also there was a fairly strong breeze which was active for the middle half of the run.

I'd had a slightly delicate stomach all that morning but was feeling good as we set out, and did the first 6 miles at about 8:30 pace on average, and mile 7 at about 9min pace. At the 7mile mark I took my first bottle of water and downed most of it, as by then I was feeling quite hot. But after that I experienced some stomach cramps for miles 8-10, and ended up adding walk breaks to offset this (the bouncing up and down was making it worse). So those miles were all 10-11min pace :-(. I felt better after that and was able to run the final few miles at about 8:45. Anyhow my plan for a sub 1hr-50 changed into an dash to rescue a sub-2hr - and was just a couple of minutes below that. A disappointment because I've run my recent 12-miler training runs at the same or even slightly better pace, on hillier terrain. I'm trying to look on the bright side that in the past a "disaster half" would have ended up being well over 2hrs time-wise.

I do a lot of my running in the evening, so am not so good at handling sunshine. I should probably have added 15secs or so to the goal pace (8:22) for the weather I think. But also my water-drinking strategies were way off. I only took a few sips of water before I set out because my stomach was still a bit sensitive - but given that I usually I drink a pint before any run, this was a bad strategy for a hot day.

So the lesson is that I probably need to do a few long runs in the sunshine, and to make a water-drop so I can practice drinking strategies :-).

This week's running (total 24.5miles):

Tuesday: 2miles (w/u,c/d) + 5x650m at 2:42-2:43 each (7min pace)) with 3mins rest.
Thursday: 3.5 miles at 8:30 pace
Saturday: 13.1miles at 9:00min "average" pace
Monday: 4miles EZ at 9:00 pace

Next weekend I'm going to try 14-15miles for my long run. But even at this point I'm feeling pretty unsure about DCM being a real possibility ... I think I will probably need some extra weeks to build up the distance and will probably be looking for a Spring marathon instead (not Connemara though!). I'm sorry about this because Dublin seems like the perfect marathon, but am not sure I'll be ready.

Hey!The conditions for the half will definitely have had an impact on your race. It'll be a lot cooler for DCM so you'll find it much easier in that respect:) I'm the same with the heat, just can't cope!
The race will have been a good learning experience for you. Will you do another half before DCM or 10 mile race? It's good to practice fuelling strategies (gels, sports drink) in a race setting in preparation for the full marathon. If you're not doing another long race then practice fuelling on plenty of your long slow runs and find something that'll suit your stomach on the run. You just had one of those days. You still pulled a decent time outa the bag despite all that went wrong. Learn from it for the next one.

No reason why you can't do DCM this year if you have your heart set on it. Make sure you're running your easy runs really easy and the long run too and get the fuelling right and you'll be flying it on the 27! Should you decide to go ahead with it...

hillsiderunner

Ososlo wrote: »

Hey!The conditions for the half will definitely have had an impact on your race. It'll be a lot cooler for DCM so you'll find it much easier in that respect:) I'm the same with the heat, just can't cope!
The race will have been a good learning experience for you. Will you do another half before DCM or 10 mile race? It's good to practice fuelling strategies (gels, sports drink) in a race setting in preparation for the full marathon. If you're not doing another long race then practice fuelling on plenty of your long slow runs and find something that'll suit your stomach on the run. You just had one of those days. You still pulled a decent time outa the bag despite all that went wrong. Learn from it for the next one.

No reason why you can't do DCM this year if you have your heart set on it. Make sure you're running your easy runs really easy and the long run too and get the fuelling right and you'll be flying it on the 27! Should you decide to go ahead with it...

The Dublin half-marathon on the 20th September is my main half-marathon this autumn (only signed up for last Saturday's one last Wednesday!). I actually have done quite a few half-marathons in the past but don't usually sign up for 2pm half-marathons in the summer. I do my long-runs (only up to 13miles so far) in the evenings, with a pint of water before, and neither water/gels during ... so on that side I need to experiment.

Anyway I will see how the next couple of weeks go as I try to step up the mileage. At any rate a few 15mile runs can't do any harm to my half-marathon training :-)! I won't back out just yet.

Ososlo

hillsiderunner wrote: »

The Dublin half-marathon on the 20th September is my main half-marathon this autumn (only signed up for last Saturday's one last Wednesday!). I actually have done quite a few half-marathons in the past but don't usually sign up for 2pm half-marathons in the summer. I do my long-runs (only up to 13miles so far) in the evenings, with a pint of water before, and neither water/gels during ... so on that side I need to experiment.

Anyway I will see how the next couple of weeks go as I try to step up the mileage. At any rate a few 15mile runs can't do any harm to my half-marathon training :-)! I won't back out just yet.

absolutely! It's win win:D

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Another thing to catch my attention was that I have noticed this week that I've said that I was on Hal 1, when in fact I am using a John Mackenzie plan.

I recall toying with the idea of about 3 or 4 different plans, stuck this one on a spreadsheet, but forgot the name of it. It seems quite similar to the others so I assume this is no biggy?

Has anyone else had experience of using the 'TRAINING FOR YOUR FIRST MARATHON -- developed for ADA's Team Diabetes program
(NOTE: ADA phased out its Team Diabetes program, but these training principles are still valid!)
by John Mackenzie'?

I'm not Diabetic so that was not the reason for this choice.

Hey MKDTH
Just had a look at his plan and yes it looks absolutely fine for a first marathon and not very different to our plan here. Don't run the pace runs too hard (make sure you ease into them with a warm up and cool down mile or so) and keep the rest super easy and you'll be fine. Good idea to take the break after 2 days from now on as you're only back running so recently, you probably need to extra recovery time.
Will you do a half marathon before the big one?
Enjoy the fun in Engerland!

MKDTH

Ososlo wrote: »

Hey MKDTH
Just had a look at his plan and yes it looks absolutely fine for a first marathon and not very different to our plan here. Don't run the pace runs too hard (make sure you ease into them with a warm up and cool down mile or so) and keep the rest super easy and you'll be fine. Good idea to take the break after 2 days from now on as you're only back running so recently, you probably need to extra recovery time.
Will you do a half marathon before the big one?
Enjoy the fun in Engerland!

Well that is good news for peace of mind! I must admit that I just bring my iphone along for a run so just run by feel and then check the splits etc afterwards but will certainly be trying to start and finish slower than the middle miles.
Yes I am all paid up for the 10 mile and Half Marathon in the Race Series. Before injury I was getting a little carried away at what was achievable time wise in races, so this injury may of helped me go back to basics!
Back to thinking of finishing the Marathon within five hours rather than the rather dizzy idea of 4.30 which came about after my improved 10k Swords 57.25 time.

laura_ac3

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Fixed the mileage tracker, seems Laura tried to snuff out ChadHogan, and Adrian's near 500km were wiped. Please let me know if I messed anything up.

Damn my secret resentment of adrian's 500km is out. Maybe now people will record in miles!

Sorry - my first attempt at using a shared spreadsheet didn't go so well. I panicked when I was there and said I'd leave it but obviously not without leaving a trail of destruction in my wake. Sorry guys!

Ososlo

MKDTH wrote: »

Well that is good news for peace of mind! I must admit that I just bring my iphone along for a run so just run by feel and then check the splits etc afterwards but will certainly be trying to start and finish slower than the middle miles.
Yes I am all paid up for the 10 mile and Half Marathon in the Race Series. Before injury I was getting a little carried away at what was achievable time wise in races, so this injury may of helped me go back to basics!
Back to thinking of finishing the Marathon within five hours rather than the rather dizzy idea of 4.30 which came about after my improved 10k Swords 57.25 time.

Great. I think you're completely right to be doing the runs by feel like this. You'll enjoy them so much more as you're not fretting about hitting a pace on the run. It's all about building time on your feet and getting comfortable with being out there for a few hours at a time for a first marathon. You can really shoot for the stars for your next one;)
The 10 mile and especially the half will tell you a lot about where you stand regarding times for DCM so I wouldn't think about targets at all yet until after the half.
Continuing to enjoy your training between now and October should be the main thing at the moment:)

Ososlo

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Damn my secret resentment of adrian's 500km is out. Maybe now people will record in miles!

Sorry - my first attempt at using a shared spreadsheet didn't go so well. I panicked when I was there and said I'd leave it but obviously not without leaving a trail of destruction in my wake. Sorry guys!

If you need any help entering your mileage etc from the last few weeks let me know.

KillianByrne

Adrian was just showing off, swinging those big numbers about.

4.5m recovery run done after yesterdays LSR, legs like lead to begin with, but really eased off after a mile or so. Feel good now.

Dub13

The mileage tracker has been great, its good to see it add up as otherwise I would not have a clue what I was doing. To lazy to add up Garmin numbers. I probably should have put Dub13 down in the name section, I am Paul Larkin on it anyway.

thehookster

Havent been able to get on this in a week or two, they have decided to block boards where I work and I rarely get to go on at home.
Last week went pretty well for me....had been sick the previous week and had come on here for advice and someone suggested doing a small run see how I was....I did and I felt ok so attempted my lsr on the sunday which was 12 miles, well it couldn't have gone any better, I felt great throughout the run and I think it helped me get rid of whatever virus I had got.
Monday I rested.
Tuesday I did a decent 4 miles, and on Wednesday I did 7 miles at a decent pace, which I was very happy with. Friday was 4 miles fartlek which was again very good, felt strong.
Sunday was my lsr of 14 miles, for the first time in a while I was looking forward to getting out for a long run despite the lashing rain......I started off with a few others who are also training for Dublin.....I went with faster group to start off with and at 3 miles I was starting to regret my decision but got some water on board and it seemed to do the trick as I was keeping up with the group comfortably.....this continued for the rest of the run and I managed to get home in 2hrs 9 mins for the 14miles. I hadn't planned to go with faster group but im delighted I did because im thinking I maybe wasn't confident enough to push myself a little more..because I know now im well capable of doing it.
Rest day today then back to the grind tomorrow again with 4 miles.
sorry for long post...

Ososlo

Quiet night in? Give your calfs a little treat without having to get off the couch:D

Stazza

Ososlo wrote: »

Quiet night in? Give your calfs a little treat without having to get of the couch:D

Cheepsgate

adrian522

10 Miles this evening. 10K pace Intervals.

3 Mile warmup
5x1k @ 10k pace with 2 mins recovery
3 Mile C/D

All good. A lot of tightness in various muscles after the weekend. Everything under control but a few things will need stretching and foam rolling to ensure they don't develop into something more serious.

A lot of talk about my mileage above...I never record in KM so was not aware of the 500KM mark on the spreadsheet, I am closing in on 1000 miles for the year though, that should happen sometime next month.

Ososlo

Stazza wrote: »

Cheepsgate

So what do you do Stazza? Lather your silky thighs and calfs with Creme de la Mer:D

Ososlo

How fast could a dog run a marathon
A little light relief from all the hard training around these parts!

ciaranmac

Ososlo wrote: »

How fast could a dog run a marathon
A little light relief from all the hard training around these parts!

Did a 5k a month or two back and a few minutes after I finished there was a lab on a lead with a human dragged behind. Going by some of the posts on those threads, that was nothing special...

It was a very hot day and the dog lay down panting for a few minutes afterwards. She got a medal though

AK333

Ososlo wrote: »

If you're following Hal and are not doing the prescribed Half Marathon this week (I doubt anyone is as I don't think there are any on this weekend!),.

Boston Scientific Half Marathon on this Sunday in Clonmel at 11.00am. A few drags in it but no hills. I did it last year, not able this year, so if I can do it you all can do it! Quality t-shirt and a great spread afterwards for all.

Ososlo

AK333 wrote: »

Boston Scientific Half Marathon on this Sunday in Clonmel at 11.00am. A few drags in it but no hills. I did it last year, not able this year, so if I can do it you all can do it! Quality t-shirt and a great spread afterwards for all.

Ah cool! Fits in perfectly to the Hal Plan so! Anyone doing it?

Ososlo

AK333 wrote: »

Boston Scientific Half Marathon on this Sunday in Clonmel at 11.00am. A few drags in it but no hills. I did it last year, not able this year, so if I can do it you all can do it! Quality t-shirt and a great spread afterwards for all.

How's your training btw?

AK333

Ososlo wrote: »

How's your training btw?

I had minor surgery but with lingering side affects about 3 weeks ago and only back at Club from yesterday so I have some small goals - 5k with Ray in Cork in September, Tipperary Womens Mini marathon (10k) in September and if I'm feeling very adventurous the 10k in Kilsheelan, but its hilly. I feel I am starting from scratch at the moment, I'm very limited on how far I can run so I'll be back to the Novice thread next year for another crack at it. I am still following this thread and wish you all every success. I, and I'm sure other novices, get great incentives and courage from everyone's achievements. Keep up the good work!