DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Gavlor

Casey78 wrote: »

Be careful about going to fast, this is exactly what I did yesterday and it went badly wrong.
I'm going to stick to my Marathon pace for the half

Why?

If you can't run faster than your target marathon pace for a hm then it's highly unlikely that you can run a full at that target pace.

Either run faster for the half or run slower for the full.

Joleigh

Dub13 wrote: »

I did a handy 13k recovery run this morning @ 10:08 min/mi, then went the zoo with the kids. The zoo took more out of me.

That zoo would wear the legs off ya!

Ed Mc

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Broke 90 minutes in the Longford Half today. It was one where the teeth had to be clenched. Fell off the pacer at about half way and things didn't look good. Took a gel (first time in a race) and gradually worked my way back. Finished the leftover of the gel at mile 10. It looked hit and miss at a good few stages. Looked at the watch and a 4.26km came up. Thought it was gone then. But I finished strongly again, upped the pace and coming into the final straight I could see how I could make it. Gritted the teeth and drove home. Fantastic relief to have hit the target.
Overall I never felt very comfortable in the race. Perhaps I am reaching that plateau where the pace is a struggle for me but then again I rarely run more than 65km a week. However I have found the training tough from a recovery point of view, always feeling fatigued. I only got 3 hours sleep last night. The good 10hr sleep the night before saved me I guess.
Overall very happy, running just over a year now and have to be very happy that I have stuck at the running. While I enjoy it I wouldn't say I am hooked but onwards and upwards.

Thats fantastic, especially in such a short time running.
I'm hoping to break 90mins in Sept after 2years running.

Imagine what you'll achieve when you do catch the bug.

Dub13

Joleigh wrote: »

That zoo would wear the legs off ya!

It sure did, I could have done with a pacer...:)

yaboya1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Broke 90 minutes in the Longford Half today. It was one where the teeth had to be clenched. Fell off the pacer at about half way and things didn't look good. Took a gel (first time in a race) and gradually worked my way back. Finished the leftover of the gel at mile 10. It looked hit and miss at a good few stages. Looked at the watch and a 4.26km came up. Thought it was gone then. But I finished strongly again, upped the pace and coming into the final straight I could see how I could make it. Gritted the teeth and drove home. Fantastic relief to have hit the target.
Overall I never felt very comfortable in the race. Perhaps I am reaching that plateau where the pace is a struggle for me but then again I rarely run more than 65km a week. However I have found the training tough from a recovery point of view, always feeling fatigued. I only got 3 hours sleep last night. The good 10hr sleep the night before saved me I guess.
Overall very happy, running just over a year now and have to be very happy that I have stuck at the running. While I enjoy it I wouldn't say I am hooked but onwards and upwards.

Great run today. Can't see 3:30 (or possibly/probably better) being any issue for you in the DCM once you've got the long runs done in training.
Well done again

PeterParker100

Well done on the 10 mile race everyone, didn't make it myself, but I was happy to get my longest LSR so far in yesterday, with 16 miles under my belt, paced it quite well at 9:10 min/miles. Ran it in the Park with the triathletes speeding around on their bikes, a good sight to see and a target for me next year.

I haven't experimented with gels yet, has anyone advise here? How many and how often would runners generally take them on a 16-20 mile run?

Also managed to beat my 5k PB on Saturday at ParkRun in 22:00, a time I've been looking to get for a while. I think ParkRun is great, but I'm not sure if I should be racing these at this stage before LSRs. Feel good now but asking myself if I'm increasing my risk of injury??

Also, I was thinking of incorporating the second half of the marathon course into a long run, would that be easy enough to do? Or would frequent stops to wait to cross roads make it frustrating?

Any thoughts appreciated.

MKDTH

Afternoon all, can a stitch be a side affect of using a gel? I used one in the Frank Duffy after 6.5 miles on Saturday which I had planned knowing that I had half a mile to get it down me before I could take on water. I then found that I got the stitch going up Upper Glen Road.

I can't say I've ever got a stitch while out training or in races before so assume it may of been the gel as I've only ever previously taken one which was on a training run.

Or I suppose it could of been me pushing on hard after a easy 3 and a half miles worrying about my knee.

yaboya1

MKDTH wrote: »

Afternoon all, can a stitch be a side affect of using a gel? I used one in the Frank Duffy after 6.5 miles on Saturday which I had planned knowing that I had half a mile to get it down me before I could take on water. I then found that I got the stitch going up Upper Glen Road.

I can't say I've ever got a stitch while out training or in races before so assume it may of been the gel as I've only ever previously taken one which was on a training run.

Or I suppose it could of been me pushing on hard after a easy 3 and a half miles worrying about my knee.

I got a stitch in Mile 23 in Seville. I know Krusty has suffered with stitches in races too, but I don't know if anyone is fully sure of the causes. This was RFR's thinking on my log back in February:

RunForestRun wrote: »

Re the stitch.. Same thing happened me in Chicago last year at around 14 miles. I got the stitch right after a gel and some water. In my experience, a stitch in a marathon is usually a fuelling issue. I solved it in Chicago by skipping all the drinks stations for about 4-5 miles and managed to sort of maintain pace. However, when I've gotten stitches at the tail end of marathons, I've never been able to battle my way through them.

I've read an article somewhere that there is no one definitive cause of stitches and very difficult to actually prevent them completely..

adrian522

PeterParker100 wrote: »

Well done on the 10 mile race everyone, didn't make it myself, but I was happy to get my longest LSR so far in yesterday, with 16 miles under my belt, paced it quite well at 9:10 min/miles. Ran it in the Park with the triathletes speeding around on their bikes, a good sight to see and a target for me next year.

I haven't experimented with gels yet, has anyone advise here? How many and how often would runners generally take them on a 16-20 mile run?

Also managed to beat my 5k PB on Saturday at ParkRun in 22:00, a time I've been looking to get for a while. I think ParkRun is great, but I'm not sure if I should be racing these at this stage before LSRs. Feel good now but asking myself if I'm increasing my risk of injury??

Also, I was thinking of incorporating the second half of the marathon course into a long run, would that be easy enough to do? Or would frequent stops to wait to cross roads make it frustrating?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Gels I'm thinking every 60 mins. Some people will go more frequently than that but for me that seems to work best. Some people go with one every 45 mins or first one after 60 mins then every 45 mins. The important thing is to experiment and see what works for you.

I would certainly avoid doing any parkrun the day before a long run. Personally I'd have 2 days of easy running before the long run.

adrian522

yaboya1 wrote: »

I got a stitch in Mile 23 in Seville. I know Krusty has suffered with stitches in races too, but I don't know if anyone is fully sure of the causes. This was RFR's thinking on my log back in February:

I got a nasty stitch on Saturday too, no idea of the cause as I didn't take any gels and only about a half a cup of water at each station.

MKDTH

adrian522 wrote: »

I got a nasty stitch on Saturday too, no idea of the cause as I didn't take any gels and only about a half a cup of water at each station.

And whereabouts on the course were you when this happened???
Just wondering if it was also going up a hill?

adrian522

MKDTH wrote: »

And whereabouts on the course were you when this happened???
Just wondering if it was also going up a hill?

The start of it was the road outside the park, but it really intensified going up the hill. I don't think it cost me too much in terms of time but it was very uncomfortable, I tried to massage the area a little bit but managed to push through as I knew we were only about 10 mins from the finish at that point.

MKDTH

yaboya1 wrote: »

I got a stitch in Mile 23 in Seville. I know Krusty has suffered with stitches in races too, but I don't know if anyone is fully sure of the causes. This was RFR's thinking on my log back in February:

Cheers, so it may be related to the gel, maybe I over fuelled as I had five jelly babies during the ten miles as well as the gel.

I did feel I had a dry mouth during the race so certainly needed the water at each station.

I suppose this kind of thing needs to be tested and resolved during training.

MKDTH

adrian522 wrote: »

The start of it was the road outside the park, but it really intensified going up the hill. I don't think it cost me too much in terms of time but it was very uncomfortable, I tried to massage the area a little bit but managed to push through as I knew we were only about 10 mins from the finish at that point.

So it may be hill related? I tried massaging the area too but had no luck before ignoring it when I hit the finishing straight.

Joleigh

When I get stitches I breath deep and make sure to exhale as much as possible before the next big slow inhale. I don't know the scientific facts but its something to do with lactic acid and oxegen. Always works for me!

Nicsx

PeterParker100 wrote: »

Also, I was thinking of incorporating the second half of the marathon course into a long run, would that be easy enough to do? Or would frequent stops to wait to cross roads make it frustrating?

Any thoughts appreciated.

I'm a believer (or hoper) that familiarity breeds contempt so have run the 2nd half of the course quite a few times. My train of thought is that when the big day comes & I have tired legs I'll feel more comfortable (if that's the word) having done it a few times. We'll see if it works......

With regard to waiting at traffic lights, there can be a bit of a pause alright but not terribly often and, to be honest, I've found them a bit of welcome relief. I could be in for a shock on the day!

MKDTH

Nicsx wrote: »

I'm a believer (or hoper) that familiarity breeds contempt so have run the 2nd half of the course quite a few times. My train of thought is that when the big day comes & I have tired legs I'll feel more comfortable (if that's the word) having done it a few times. We'll see if it works......

I have the same thoughts.

crisco10

Nicsx wrote: »

With regard to waiting at traffic lights, there can be a bit of a pause alright but not terribly often and, to be honest, I've found them a bit of welcome relief. I could be in for a shock on the day!

Run plenty of this route regularly...What I just do is if I see a red man at a junction I just turn at the junction/do a u-turn, run 20m or so then turnabout back to lights, you sort of get a nack of timing this so you hit the junction during green man time. My garmin ends up with lots of "bumps" in route, but a good steady heart rate with no breaks. Not ideal but some of the junctions can have quite long red men which provide too much of a rest for my liking.

Firedance

Why the second part of the route guys? I've had this in the back of my head to maybe try but have yet to try it

crisco10

Firedance wrote: »

Why the second part of the route guys? I've had this in the back of my head to maybe try but have yet to try it

Not sure about the others but the first half is Phoenix Park centric which I know from all the races and training runs...

PeterParker100

Firedance wrote: »

Why the second part of the route guys? I've had this in the back of my head to maybe try but have yet to try it

Agree with crisco10 and the second half is where it starts to hurt! Thinking it can only be a benefit to be familiar with the later sections of the route (in my head anyway). Will try it out in a couple of weeks.

rob w

I did the 2nd half of the route last year with a couple of other boardsies.....I would recommend doing it if you live close by! I think we started at about 7am in Walkinstown and ran right to Merrion sq. A nice early start means you dont meet much traffic, and therefore dont get held up at crossings, and theres not too many pedestrians around the city by the time you get there!

But as the route is changed and College Green is not included anymore, pedestrians probably wont be a problem!

It was a definite help to me on the day of the race then as said above, the familiarity helps and gives a little mental boost even when your feeling tired!

Nicsx

Firedance wrote: »

Why the second part of the route guys? I've had this in the back of my head to maybe try but have yet to try it

Purely because it was handy. I can drop the kids to school & run down to Terenure & join from there. As the LSRs got longer I'd add the miles on at the start so that once it got to Ballsbridge I knew it was x miles home. Now the LSRs are getting longer again I'm going to run into town & do the 1st half & then run home from Bushy Park.

For me, there's a sense of comfort (not quite sure if that's the right word) of knowing where the drags, Heartbreak Hill & the downhill bits are.

neilthefunkeone

Ive done roebuck hill about 30 times now as its on a route i do on my lunch in work.. I've also done the route from Terenure into town.. i think its great as i can visualize whats left!

Ososlo

For those outside of Dublin who won't get a chance to run parts of the route, I really wouldn't worry at all. I only knew the first few miles on the Northside and last two towards the finish and I enjoyed the unknown bits just as much and in some ways more. There's a lot to be said for not knowing what's ahead. It's a lovely way to tour the city seeing parts you've never seen before for the first time. 'Sit back' and relax and enjoy the sites
Let your legs do the 'work'

Ososlo

PeterParker100 wrote: »

Well done on the 10 mile race everyone, didn't make it myself, but I was happy to get my longest LSR so far in yesterday, with 16 miles under my belt, paced it quite well at 9:10 min/miles. Ran it in the Park with the triathletes speeding around on their bikes, a good sight to see and a target for me next year.

I haven't experimented with gels yet, has anyone advise here? How many and how often would runners generally take them on a 16-20 mile run?

Also managed to beat my 5k PB on Saturday at ParkRun in 22:00, a time I've been looking to get for a while. I think ParkRun is great, but I'm not sure if I should be racing these at this stage before LSRs. Feel good now but asking myself if I'm increasing my risk of injury??

Also, I was thinking of incorporating the second half of the marathon course into a long run, would that be easy enough to do? Or would frequent stops to wait to cross roads make it frustrating?

Any thoughts appreciated.

I took a gel every 40 mins or so on the day and found that good.
I also sipped on diluted Lucozade Sport throughout the marathon.
I definitely would advise you to drop the Parkrun unless you're doing the lsr mid week. Way too much scope for injury there.

laura_ac3

Ososlo wrote: »

For those outside of Dublin who won't get a chance to run parts of the route, I really wouldn't worry at all. I only knew the first few miles on the Northside and last two towards the finish and I enjoyed the unknown bits just as much and in some ways more. There's a lot to be said for not knowing what's ahead. It's a lovely way to tour the city seeing parts you've never seen before for the first time. 'Sit back' and relax and enjoy the sites
Let your legs do the 'work'

I'd be inclined to agree. It's funny because when I did the Dublin half the first time military hill, s bends, upper Glen road etc were all unknown to me and while they were tough and I was a hit shellshocked I just had to get on with it and handle whatever was ahead. Then the next year during the 10 mile and half especially I actually think I found them harder during those races as I knew exactly what was ahead and I was dreading it.

It's nice to be prepared but sometimes (maybe only for some people) being too familiar means you overthink it and build it up too much. I thought about driving to the second half to practice it but I think I've decided not to bother now. I'm trying to incorporate hills on some lsrs to prepare the body for similar terrain but let some of the course remain unknown so I'm not mentally dreading all the tough parts. I am familiar with the last few miles so I'll be prepared for that part, but the middle part and "heartbreak hill", milltown etc are all blank canvases!

Maybe it will come back to haunt me! Just a different perspective though - especially for any non Dublin based people who might start panicking about being unprepared!

Ososlo

Good points there laura. Also, bear in mind everyone that Boardsies have run successful marathons all over Ireland and the world without knowing the routes and it didn't seem to make much of a difference to them. By all means have an idea of where the hillier bits are and in a very general sense how long they last for but don't be getting stressed about it!

floatwinner

I have a confession, I only registered for DCM at the weekend as I didn't feel I was training enough due to work hours.

I am planning to do 3 x 20 mile lsrs in September, would anyone recommended against this?

I'm not worried about pace, just want to get the miles in.

Ososlo

floatwinner wrote: »

I have a confession, I only registered for DCM at the weekend as I didn't feel I was training enough due to work hours.

I am planning to do 3 x 20 mile lsrs in September, would anyone recommended against this?

I'm not worried about pace, just want to get the miles in.

I did 20, 14, 17, 19, 20 for the lsrs in September and then wound things down so don't see a problem with your 3 x 20, but what are you currently doing lsr-wise, and what's your total weekly mileage like?