DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Firedance

Ososlo wrote: »

Looks like a good strategy to me but the problem is you have to take the elevations on the course into account. If it's the race series half then the hills are towards the end so I'm not sure if it would be possible to make up loads of time in the last few miles. I think you have to take advantage of the declines and allow a little time extra for the inclines.
On a flat course I think it'd be a great strategy.

Its Athlone Half, apparently the flattest half in the country I'm sure there are hills though and a few drags so those are good points thanks, I'll look at the course in more detail...

laura_ac3

Laois_Man wrote: »

40 - and still kicking myself that I only got the running bug a couple of years ago

I'd love to know how fast I could have been in my 20's and even how fast I'd be now and what my PBs would be now!

29. So so far one of the youngest but I'm also likely to be one of the slowest I'd say judging by what other people are aiming for. I'd be echoing rainbow k - younger isn't necessarily faster! But hopefully lots of time to work on that and improve in the coming years.

rainbow kirby

I'm actually not a huge fan of the idea of starting out very conservatively, though the nature of the race that I'm doing (55,000 participants, and I'm something like 3 corrals from the back) I may be forced to! I would be aiming to hold 5:41/km ish pace relatively consistently the whole way, with allowances for hills etc.

menoscemo

Firedance wrote: »

I was just looking at pacing for the half earlier kirby, I'm looking to break 2 hours too and found this online

'I would recommend going out your first first miles right at or 5 to 10 seconds slower than your goal pace (9 min. 9 second miles). This will help you mentally prepare to NOT go out too fast, which is a big mistake.

• So miles 1 to 3 at about 9:15 pace.
• Miles 4 to 7 at 9:09 pace
• Miles 8 to 10 at 9:05 pace
• Miles 11 to 13.1 9:00 pace (or whatever else you have left in the tank).

This will get you you to your 2 hour half-marathon'


To the experienced boardsies is this good advice? any other tips for achieving your race goal?

A big problem with strategies like this is that you could do all this and still fail unless you are pacing off mile/Km markers rather than your garmin.
This is because Courses will typicaly come in 'over distance' on your GPS watch. A Typical half will read about 13.2-13.25 on your garmin at the end (more again if there are big crowds) and that would be about a minute extra if you are running around 2hr pace.

Also if you are racing flat out you won't be able to make wll these calculations coherently. If you are able to calculate all of the above I'd suggest you could go a lot faster. For a novice runner I think it is best to follow a pace group if there is one and let them do the calculations. As you get more expereinced you will be able to pace yourself better to how your body feels on the day and you'll be abel to run without pace groups or even a watch.

Ososlo

SeanPuddin wrote: »

Have the same thoughts myself, I'm so worried of going out too fast. I feel sub 2 hour half is not beyond me this weekend, but I want to be very conservative.

Pros: I know the course from 12k, there's pacers for 1:50 and 2hrs.

Don't know what to do though, as if I go with the 1:50s there's every chance of blowing up. Going with the 2hrs guys and I'll be wondering if I could have gone quicker.

More than likely I'll run the lot between the two groups all things going well. I'm so nervous it's not even funny.

I think it's a great idea to run between the two groups if that's where you feel most comfortable pace-wise.
It can be very busy around the pacers too so there are advantages to running with a bit more space around you.

Laois_Man

laura_ac3 wrote: »

29. So so far one of the youngest but I'm also likely to be one of the slowest I'd say judging by what other people are aiming for. I'd be echoing rainbow k - younger isn't necessarily faster! But hopefully lots of time to work on that and improve in the coming years.

I still think, if you started running at age 28, you're faster now at 29 than you would have been at 39 if you'd waited until you were 38 to start.

All theoretical anyway - can't be proved or disproved.

This thread is now making me want to do the HM. :eek:
Run 13.1 with the 1:50 pacers....I could do that! :rolleyes:

SeanPuddin

Laois_Man if you were in Laois the Tullamore HM wouldn't be too far from you, but I see you're in Not Laois.

Firedance

menoscemo wrote: »

A big problem with strategies like this is that you could do all this and still fail unless you are pacing off mile/Km markers rather than your garmin.
This is because Courses will typicaly come in 'over distance' on your GPS watch. A Typical half will read about 13.2-13.25 on your garmin at the end (more again if there are big crowds) and that would be about a minute extra if you are running around 2hr pace.

Also if you are racing flat out you won't be able to make wll these calculations coherently. If you are able to calculate all of the above I'd suggest you could go a lot faster. For a novice runner I think it is best to follow a pace group if there is one and let them do the calculations. As you get more expereinced you will be able to pace yourself better to how your body feels on the day and you'll be abel to run without pace groups or even a watch.

Thanks Meno, there are 2 hr pacers - I hadn't checked that - traditionally do pacers stick to the same pace the whole way round or do they vary it? If the pacer goes off to fast (for me - I like a slow start) I'll struggle from the start. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much about it and just go and run!!

Mimojo

Im a complete newbie on...well everything about running it feels like! On the pacers, I know this is prob a really stupid question but how can you see the pacers during the marathon - Am I right in thinking they have a balloon or flag or something? Also if there are hundreds of people in each pace group, is it difficult to stay with your pacer group, and is it very packed within the pacer groups? If I make it to the start line of DCM 2014 it will be my first marathon...and I never realised just how much there is to consider.. & how much I dont have a clue!

menoscemo

Firedance wrote: »

Thanks Meno, there are 2 hr pacers - I hadn't checked that - traditionally do pacers stick to the same pace the whole way round or do they vary it? If the pacer goes off to fast (for me - I like a slow start) I'll struggle from the start. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much about it and just go and run!!

Depends on the race but generally best policy is not to bank time at the start.

For DCM the pacers are under strict instruction to maintain even pace from the start and come in around 30 seconds under target, but if the course is hilly you might run the downhills a little faster and the uphills a little slower (i.e. maintain even effort while keeping the average pace right).

MKDTH

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

lovely seven miles this evening in cool winds. 11.04/11.14 It felt nice and easy even though I should be running even slower.

Loved all the reports on Saturday, well done to all.

Would it be very rude to ask what is the age range of all the boardies?
Just might make me feel a little better!

45-50

35

Ososlo

Mimojo wrote: »

Im a complete newbie on...well everything about running it feels like! On the pacers, I know this is prob a really stupid question but how can you see the pacers during the marathon - Am I right in thinking they have a balloon or flag or something? Also if there are hundreds of people in each pace group, is it difficult to stay with your pacer group, and is it very packed within the pacer groups? If I make it to the start line of DCM 2014 it will be my first marathon...and I never realised just how much there is to consider.. & how much I dont have a clue!

Yes they wear a flag type thing on their backs and it's quite high up so you can see them from afar.
Yes it is packed around them but that doesn't seem to bother most people. Personally I found it a bit intense and preferred to run my own pace depending on the variance of the course.
Different strokes. . .

menoscemo

Mimojo wrote: »

Im a complete newbie on...well everything about running it feels like! On the pacers, I know this is prob a really stupid question but how can you see the pacers during the marathon - Am I right in thinking they have a balloon or flag or something? Also if there are hundreds of people in each pace group, is it difficult to stay with your pacer group, and is it very packed within the pacer groups? If I make it to the start line of DCM 2014 it will be my first marathon...and I never realised just how much there is to consider.. & how much I dont have a clue!

They'll have flags or balloons witht he time printed on and will be placed in the appropraite start zone.
Some people find the groups a little packed (especially popular ones like 4hrs) but it generally is less so towards the end of the race. A good idea might be to start a little behind your pace group (never start in front becuase they will be pacing from the moment they go over the start line; not you) and gradually make your way up to the group as the crownd thins out a bit.

SoundoftheSea

Laois_Man wrote: »

I still think, if you started running at age 28, you're faster now at 29 than you would have been at 39 if you'd waited until you were 38 to start.

All theoretical anyway - can't be proved or disproved.

This thread is now making me want to do the HM. :eek:
Run 13.1 with the 1:50 pacers....I could do that! :rolleyes:

I am getting drawn into signing up also!!
(As the oldest female so far)
I think I need a race before DCM to try out running with a pacer.
Is there one for 2.15 or what way are they allocated?

MKDTH

Either going for a run this evening or in the morning in what will be my first since the 10mile race.

Still getting used to foam rolling, but it may have helped as my knee which is feeling stronger than it was prior to the race last week!

If all is well, I am planning on training as my plan states five days a week, if I have a similar knee issue which leaves the knee locked for 36 hours I am going to get the long runs in twice a week and rest the rest of the time.

Calvin Johnson

Good plan MK

Ososlo

SoundoftheSea wrote: »

I am getting drawn into signing up also!!
(As the oldest female so far)
I think I need a race before DCM to try out running with a pacer.
Is there one for 2.15 or what way are they allocated?

I think it's every 10 mins so 1:40, 1:50, 2:00, 2:10 for Race Series Half

Mimojo

Ososlo wrote: »

Yes they wear a flag type thing on their backs and it's quite high up so you can see them from afar.
Yes it is packed around them but that doesn't seem to bother most people. Personally I found it a bit intense and preferred to run my own pace depending on the variance of the course.
Different strokes. . .

menoscemo wrote: »

They'll have flags or balloons witht he time printed on and will be placed in the appropraite start zone.
Some people find the groups a little packed (especially popular ones like 4hrs) but it generally is less so towards the end of the race. A good idea might be to start a little behind your pace group (never start in front becuase they will be pacing from the moment they go over the start line; not you) and gradually make your way up to the group as the crownd thins out a bit.

Great thanks a mill. I am hoping to go for 4hr 30min, I know this is very slow but I dont want to try for any faster & burn myself out as I feel like I have limited experience. I just want to finish it, and run the whole thing. Going on my lsr on Sat or Sun & hoping to do 19/20 miles, see how I feel, and take the step & get signed up!

Ososlo

Ososlo wrote: »

I think it's every 10 mins so 1:40, 1:50, 2:00, 2:10 for Race Series Half

Almost certain it's every 10 mins from 1:30 to 2 hrs and nothing slower than 2hrs. I don't understand why they can't have this basic info on their website!

Meno might be along to confirm soon!

Joleigh

Ran almost 8 miles lastnight with a sprint towards the end to get away from a joyrider doing donuts on a quiet road. It was 9.30pm, dark and raining. I was waiting to be thrown into a car boot!

My plan says I've to do 8m pace on Saturday and 17m LSR on Sunday. (although im still clueless about what my mp is). I have a zoo date on Sunday and I don't fancy walking miles around the zoo on exhausted legs. So if I did 17LSR on sat instead and just a recovery run on sunday morning, would that be ok? Or am I just messing with the plan. I know the idea of the 8m pace the day before the LSR is to get used to running on tired legs.

Sorry if this bores you to tears......:rolleyes:

pistol_75

Ososlo wrote: »

I think it's every 10 mins so 1:40, 1:50, 2:00, 2:10 for Race Series Half

1:30, 1:40, 1:50, 2:00 for the Half.

Ososlo

Joleigh wrote: »

Ran almost 8 miles lastnight with a sprint towards the end to get away from a joyrider doing donuts on a quiet road. It was 9.30pm, dark and raining. I was waiting to be thrown into a car boot!

My plan says I've to do 8m pace on Saturday and 17m LSR on Sunday. (although im still clueless about what my mp is). I have a zoo date on Sunday and I don't fancy walking miles around the zoo on exhausted legs. So if I did 17LSR on sat instead and just a recovery run on sunday morning, would that be ok? Or am I just messing with the plan. I know the idea of the 8m pace the day before the LSR is to get used to running on tired legs.

Sorry if this bores you to tears......:rolleyes:

Yeah I guess the plan is set up that way for a reason. However, as long as you've been following it fairly closely in the main, I wouldn't think it's any big deal to change things around a bit this weekend to suit your schedule.
Remind me of the plan you're following again?

Joleigh

Ososlo wrote: »

Yeah I guess the plan is set up that way for a reason. However, as long as you've been following it fairly closely in the main, I wouldn't think it's any big deal to change things around a bit this weekend to suit your schedule.
Remind me of the plan you're following again?

Hal Higdon Intermediate 1

Maybe I'll just stick to it. Its not meant to be easy!

Ososlo

Joleigh wrote: »

Hal Higdon Intermediate 1

Maybe I'll just stick to it. Its not meant to be easy!

Ha ha that's true but I don't think it's any big deal missing or changing the odd run as an exception. Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.

Joleigh

Ososlo wrote: »

Ha ha that's true but I don't think it's any big deal missing or changing the odd run as an exception. Best of luck. Let us know how you get on.

Thanks. Wonder if the zoo have mobility scooters to rent.

Pacing Mule

Are this years pace groups confirmed ?

It looks like I am going to fall back a bit from a sub 4 attempt. Is 4:15 the next bus back or is it 4:10 and 4:20 would any of the pacers here know ?

pistol_75

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Are this years pace groups confirmed ?

It looks like I am going to fall back a bit from a sub 4 attempt. Is 4:15 the next bus back or is it 4:10 and 4:20 would any of the pacers here know ?

10 minute intervals.

Ososlo

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Are this years pace groups confirmed ?

It looks like I am going to fall back a bit from a sub 4 attempt. Is 4:15 the next bus back or is it 4:10 and 4:20 would any of the pacers here know ?

Every ten mins for definite. So 4:10 4:20

Firedance

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Are this years pace groups confirmed ?

It looks like I am going to fall back a bit from a sub 4 attempt. Is 4:15 the next bus back or is it 4:10 and 4:20 would any of the pacers here know ?

ah lads! there's buses, sure no need for all these LSR's - I already know how to get on and off a bus :P

Ososlo

Firedance wrote: »

ah lads! there's buses, sure no need for all these LSR's - I already know how to get on and off a bus :P

Buses at 4 hr plus and a bicycle at 3:40 if ya need a ride