DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Tigerandahalf

yaboya1 wrote: »

7 min/mile is sub 3:04 pace. I think you should be ok for your sub 3:30 bid

I meant to do around 7.20 but the watch was a bit all over the place, as there were a couple of inclines so I just let the body dictate the pace. I haven't done MP miles in my lsrs to date so thought it might be worth trying it out. The legs did feel very sluggish once I eased back but I still seemed to be under 8mins/m for a mile or so afterwards. I have a garmin forerunner 110. It is fine but it does not give you current pace, just the average pace for your km/mile to date. So it can be hard to know what pace you are actually doing until a new km/mile starts on the garmin.

yaboya1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I meant to do around 7.20 but the watch was a bit all over the place, as there were a couple of inclines so I just let the body dictate the pace. I haven't done MP miles in my lsrs to date so thought it might be worth trying it out. The legs did feel very sluggish once I eased back but I still seemed to be under 8mins/m for a mile or so afterwards. I have a garmin forerunner 110. It is fine but it does not give you current pace, just the average pace for your km/mile to date. So it can be hard to know what pace you are actually doing until a new km/mile starts on the garmin.

You look well on target anyway. 8min/mile is sub 3:30 pace. I assume you already know this, but just in case

Casey78

Nicsx wrote: »

Just in from 21m LSR with YourPaceOrMine. No wrong turns today but managed to get caught up in a 10k in the Park for Breast Cancer awareness. We got a couple of funny looks as run against the body of runners (staying well out of their way, of course).

Decided to try 2 gels today, 1st at 7m & 2nd at 14m & regretted it almost immediately. I spent the last 7miles fighting the feeling that a good puke would sort me out (sorry if tmi) & a thumper of a headache. Anyway kept going and thankfully YourPaceOrMine was feeling good so cajoled me home. Thankfully if one of us is feeling bad, the other feels good & offers words of encouragement. Heaven help us if both of us feel rubbish at the same time!

Anyway, I'm glad to have it done but like many others here I'm seriously doubting my ability to run on the day at a pace faster than training pace!!!!

I took a gel on my 10mile pace run today. Took it at 5miles and felt ok and it did actually give me a little boost. Around 9 and a half miles my tummy felt funny and I brought it all back up just as I got to 10 miles.
Dunno why that would happen. It was a berry flavour but wasn't very nice.

Tigerandahalf

yaboya1 wrote: »

You look well on target anyway. 8min/mile is sub 3:30 pace. I assume you already know this, but just in case

I am thinking of the MP miles being around 7.20/mile, so the lsr would be about 8.30/mile. I would rather not go slower than this as there is such a gap between both. Should I look to be increasing the MP miles distance in the lsr or am I better to leave it for another cycle at a later time. I am sort of following the boards plan. I find I can run 8min/miles pretty comfortably but reducing that down by 30/40 seconds and you are in unchartered territory. Time will tell.
As others are down to do a half marathon in a couple of weeks I am half thinking of doing a 10km race next weekend. And then no racing til the marathon.

Tigerandahalf

Casey78 wrote: »

I took a gel on my 10mile pace run today. Took it at 5miles and felt ok and it did actually give me a little boost. Around 9 and a half miles my tummy felt funny and I brought it all back up just as I got to 10 miles.
Dunno why that would happen. It was a berry flavour but wasn't very nice.

Just on this, I never take water on my lsrs. I just eat the gel. So far I have had no issues and normally I would have a dodgy stomach. Perhaps it is drinking water after the gel that is causing the problems.

Firedance

Did 16.7 miles this morning, plan was 17 but unlike last week I couldn't pull the last half mile out of the bag at the end - last 2 miles were torture, ran with a friend today who's faster than me so I think we were going to fast in some spots. Took 2 gels but in those last 2 miles I had a stitch & felt like puking which is new for me. I'm ok now, tired yes but recovering & may even tackle the hoovering once I get off the couch :-) I too wondered today how the hec I'm going to keep going for 26.2!!

Casey78

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Just on this, I never take water on my lsrs. I just eat the gel. So far I have had no issues and normally I would have a dodgy stomach. Perhaps it is drinking water after the gel that is causing the problems.

I didn't drink any water after it. I was actually thinking maybe drinking water would have helped!

Tigerandahalf

All you can do is play around with different options and see what works. I have only tried Kinetica berry burst flavour so far and it has been fine.

yaboya1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am thinking of the MP miles being around 7.20/mile, so the lsr would be about 8.30/mile. I would rather not go slower than this as there is such a gap between both. Should I look to be increasing the MP miles distance in the lsr or am I better to leave it for another cycle at a later time. I am sort of following the boards plan. I find I can run 8min/miles pretty comfortably but reducing that down by 30/40 seconds and you are in unchartered territory. Time will tell.
As others are down to do a half marathon in a couple of weeks I am half thinking of doing a 10km race next weekend. And then no racing til the marathon.

I may not be the best person to ask, as I'm pretty new to the sport myself and wouldn't have the knowledge or experience of many others on here. McMillan gives you around 3:09 based off your half time last week and based on what you're saying, you may be capable of something like that.
However, you did say to me you'd be happy with sub 3:30 and if 8min/miles are so comfortable maybe you should set out at that pace on the day and pick it up later in the race if you still feel strong?
If you were to go out at the quicker pace, you could regret it later on and not enjoy the race as much as you'd like. It's much easier/nicer/less painful to make up ground in the second half by speeding up, rather than trying not to slow down when the sh*t hits the fan.
You've still got two months before the race though. No need to rush into any decisions yet.

Tigerandahalf

I think the McMilan reflects your potential rather than what you could do in the next month. I have no interest in pushing inside 3.15. As you say it would be too hard too soon and the last quarter of the race could be very unenjoyable and turn you off running plus the risk of injury. At the same time I want to give it a go as I may not have as much time next year so who knows. I will just keep the training going and get to the startline in good shape.
I see you were doing a lot of MP miles in your longish runs. Are they the real indicator of where you are at?

Pacing Mule

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am thinking of the MP miles being around 7.20/mile, so the lsr would be about 8.30/mile. I would rather not go slower than this as there is such a gap between both. Should I look to be increasing the MP miles distance in the lsr or am I better to leave it for another cycle at a later time. I am sort of following the boards plan. I find I can run 8min/miles pretty comfortably but reducing that down by 30/40 seconds and you are in unchartered territory. Time will tell.
As others are down to do a half marathon in a couple of weeks I am half thinking of doing a 10km race next weekend. And then no racing til the marathon.

I'm a bit confused.

MP for a sub 3:30 is 8 min pace.
If you are running your MP miles at 7:20 then you are running at 3:12 pace which you are saying you don't want to be at ?

Tigerandahalf

Pacing Mule wrote: »

I'm a bit confused.

MP for a sub 3:30 is 8 min pace.
If you are running your MP miles at 7:20 then you are running at 3:12 pace which you are saying you don't want to be at ?

I am thinking about 3.15 which would require a 7.20 pace (gives you 3 minutes to play around with) I was running the slow run at 8.30 pace. I did 3 MP miles at 15 miles and then slowed back down again. The watch doesn't give you an instant pace thus times can jump around and you have to guess your pace during a run.

Pacing Mule

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am thinking about 3.15 which would require a 7.20 pace (gives you 3 minutes to play around with) I was running the slow run at 8.30 pace. I did 3 MP miles at 15 miles and then slowed back down again. The watch doesn't give you an instant pace thus times can jump around and you have to guess your pace during a run.

Sorry - had picked up that you were targeting 3:30. Carry on

yaboya1

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think the McMilan reflects your potential rather than what you could do in the next month. I have no interest in pushing inside 3.15. As you say it would be too hard too soon and the last quarter of the race could be very unenjoyable and turn you off running plus the risk of injury. At the same time I want to give it a go as I may not have as much time next year so who knows. I will just keep the training going and get to the startline in good shape.
I see you were doing a lot of MP miles in your longish runs. Are they the real indicator of where you are at?

Yeah I kind of agree with that and was saying something similar to the lads last Sunday. I think the less experienced you are (especially over the marathon distance), the less accurate McMillan is.
7:20min/mile is 3:12/3:13 marathon pace, but it's probably advisable to train that little bit faster allowing for the discrepancy of Garmin miles/measured miles and the fact that you're more than likely going to run a little bit further than 26.2 miles.
I'd be similar to you in that I like to set pretty aggressive targets to justify my current fitness level. Marathon training can be so difficult you never know when you may arrive at the start line in that sort of shape again. However, I can also make a decision early in a race if I feel like it's harder work than it should be.
My original aim was to train for a 2:55 marathon to give myself a cushion to go sub 3, but my recent results suggest that 2:55 may now be a realistic target. I'll see how I get on in last few key workouts before making a final decision though.

Ososlo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am thinking of the MP miles being around 7.20/mile, so the lsr would be about 8.30/mile. I would rather not go slower than this as there is such a gap between both. Should I look to be increasing the MP miles distance in the lsr or am I better to leave it for another cycle at a later time. I am sort of following the boards plan. I find I can run 8min/miles pretty comfortably but reducing that down by 30/40 seconds and you are in unchartered territory. Time will tell.
As others are down to do a half marathon in a couple of weeks I am half thinking of doing a 10km race next weekend. And then no racing til the marathon.

I'm really not qualified to be giving you advice.
However, if you're sort of following our plan and are coping fine with the distances and weekly mileage and want to be challenged a little more, I'd be inclined to add in some more mp miles into the lsr - maybe towards the end of it. I don't think there'd be any harm in that at all but welcome opinions? Are you doing the mid-week mp miles in our plan?

Tigerandahalf

I have to admit I have been following the boards plan loosely. Initially I was using Hal Higdon but wanted more miles. Because I was doing races at different times to most on here I wouldn't have done some of the midweek sessions. I have yet to do hill sprints. I might try a session of those next week. I took this week very easy after doing Longford. Just easy miles according to the boards plan and did nothing yesterday except core work and foam rolling to be fresh for the lsr today. As I wasn't sure how the body would react to increased milage I have to adapt the plan as I go along. I have one 19 miler and a 22 miler lsrs done now. If I get another couple of those in with MP miles I will have a better idea of where I am at.

Ososlo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I have to admit I have been following the boards plan loosely. Initially I was using Hal Higdon but wanted more miles. Because I was doing races at different times to most on here I wouldn't have done some of the midweek sessions. I have yet to do hill sprints. I might try a session of those next week. I took this week very easy after doing Longford. Just easy miles according to the boards plan and did nothing yesterday except core work and foam rolling to be fresh for the lsr today. As I wasn't sure how the body would react to increased milage I have to adapt the plan as I go along. I have one 19 miler and a 22 miler lsrs done now. If I get another couple of those in with MP miles I will have a better idea of where I am at.

I'm not sure how useful hill sprints will be to you at this point. MP work might serve you better. No harm adapting a plan at all. I didn't follow a particular established plan either last year, it was just worked out according to how I was dealing with the increases as time went on like yourself.
Sounds like you know what you're about. Definitely get in a few more 18-20 runs. They'll give you loads of confidence. I found that putting the MP miles in towards the end of the run (after 14, 15 miles) was really beneficial for seeing how hard mp really feels when you're shagged!

Dub13

Somebody posted a link here to a YouTube clip of a handy safety pin trick for Gels on your shorts. I forgot try o bookmark it, does anybody have the link handy...?

Ososlo

Dub13 wrote: »

Somebody posted a link here to a YouTube clip of a handy safety pin trick for Gels on your shorts. I forgot try o bookmark it, does anybody have the link handy...?

http://coachlevi.com/running/how-to-...unning-shorts/

I tried pinning gels to my shorts for a half marathon in Wexford last year. Suffice to say it got messy:o You'd really want to experiment a lot with this strategy!

Ososlo

Ososlo wrote: »

http://coachlevi.com/running/how-to-...unning-shorts/

I tried pinning gels to my shorts for a half marathon in Wexford last year. Suffice to say it got messy:o You'd really want to experiment a lot with this strategy!

I see the link doesn't work. Here's the post it originated from


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90296686&postcount=75

Alan30

20 mile LSR completed this morning. It went very well averaging 9.50 mins per mile. Started to feel leggy the last 2 mile but probably could have push another couple of miles if required. I didn't use any gels I just sipped at a bottle of lucozade diluted with water and felt good on it.

Mimojo

LSR of 18.5 miles early this morning, longest run so far. Had hoped to hit 20 miles but just couldn’t manage it this morning. Legs have been tired all week after the Frank Duffy last week, and got a crap sleep last night. Also I went out at 6am and just had a banana before I left which I am thinking was a mistake and I need to eat something a little more substantial from now on as started to feeling really hungry towards the end of the run. Found it really tough, first hour was dry but starting lashing down after than and for most of the rest of the run so was pretty miserable!! First 12 miles were grand, held a pace of between 10:15 & 10:39. I took my first energy gel @ 8 miles ish and was feeling good. After Mile 12 started to get really hard, Mile 15 pace had fallen to 11. Took another energy gel then. Last 3 miles pace was 11:10 ish, really struggled through them. Also I had to stop for about 20 seconds 4 times to stretch as my legs were seriously tight, but the quick stretch did really help so didn’t mind so much. All in all its done, its my longest run so far & hopefully next weekends lsr will be a bit better! Average was pace was 10:42

Just wondering is this an ok pace for my lsr? I am now following HH Novice 1 plan, but I am a bit ahead with the long run distance, I have been increasing each week so will continue to do so and feeling pretty comfortable.
Also I have been eating ALL day after it, just SO hungry, is this normal??! All healthy stuff, with plenty of carbs and protein. Didn’t have much on today thankfully as legs are pretty tired. Plan on a lot of foam rolling tomorrow!

Ososlo

Mimojo wrote: »

LSR of 18.5 miles early this morning, longest run so far. Had hoped to hit 20 miles but just couldn’t manage it this morning. Legs have been tired all week after the Frank Duffy last week, and got a crap sleep last night. Also I went out at 6am and just had a banana before I left which I am thinking was a mistake and I need to eat something a little more substantial from now on as started to feeling really hungry towards the end of the run. Found it really tough, first hour was dry but starting lashing down after than and for most of the rest of the run so was pretty miserable!! First 12 miles were grand, held a pace of between 10:15 & 10:39. I took my first energy gel @ 8 miles ish and was feeling good. After Mile 12 started to get really hard, Mile 15 pace had fallen to 11. Took another energy gel then. Last 3 miles pace was 11:10 ish, really struggled through them. Also I had to stop for about 20 seconds 4 times to stretch as my legs were seriously tight, but the quick stretch did really help so didn’t mind so much. All in all its done, its my longest run so far & hopefully next weekends lsr will be a bit better! Average was pace was 10:42

Just wondering is this an ok pace for my lsr? I am now following HH Novice 1 plan, but I am a bit ahead with the long run distance, I have been increasing each week so will continue to do so and feeling pretty comfortable.
Also I have been eating ALL day after it, just SO hungry, is this normal??! All healthy stuff, with plenty of carbs and protein. Didn’t have much on today thankfully as legs are pretty tired. Plan on a lot of foam rolling tomorrow!

Yes try and eat something more substantial before the next one and I'm sure it'll help a lot. Did you take on any sports drink? That well help to keep the energy levels topped up as you run. You could sip on a lucozade sport for the duration of the run and take a gel every 45 mins or so.
Re pace: Your pace should be very easy/comfortable for these runs. You might have felt it was very easy starting out, but you ended up one min per mile slower than you started. This would suggest to me that you started out a bit too fast. You'd be better off trying to maintain an even effort throughout. If it were me, I'd start out much slower the next time and you might finish a lot stronger. So I'd start out closer to 11 pace.
Appetite: Your body is obviously craving fuel now so you need to give it what it wants at the moment (within reason!). You're lucky you're not craving unhealthy stuff! If you ate well before the run and yesterday and topped up as you went along today, you might find you'd not be as hungry afterwards. Make sure to get in some carbs and protein within 20 mins of finishing your run and then a good meal within an hour or two afterwards.

Ososlo

Alan30 wrote: »

20 mile LSR completed this morning. It went very well averaging 9.50 mins per mile. Started to feel leggy the last 2 mile but probably could have push another couple of miles if required. I didn't use any gels I just sipped at a bottle of lucozade diluted with water and felt good on it.

Well done Alan. Great to have something left in the tank like that towards the end. Make sure to experiment with gels too as diluted lucozade might not be enough to keep you optimally topped up on the big day.

Alan30

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done Alan. Great to have something left in the tank like that towards the end. Make sure to experiment with gels too as diluted lucozade might not be enough to keep you optimally topped up on the big day.

I used power bar gels on my last 2 LSR felt ok after them but didn't think they give me any boost. Might try some other brands but have being toying with the idea of getting a couple of bananas for about late on in the runs as I start to feel hungry at about 15/16 mile

Mimojo

Ososlo wrote: »

Yes try and eat something more substantial before the next one and I'm sure it'll help a lot. Did you take on any sports drink? That well help to keep the energy levels topped up as you run. You could sip on a lucozade sport for the duration of the run and take a gel every 45 mins or so.
Re pace: Your pace should be very easy/comfortable for these runs. You might have felt it was very easy starting out, but you ended up one min per mile slower than you started. This would suggest to me that you started out a bit too fast. You'd be better off trying to maintain an even effort throughout. If it were me, I'd start out much slower the next time and you might finish a lot stronger. So I'd start out closer to 11 pace.
Appetite: Your body is obviously craving fuel now so you need to give it what it wants at the moment (within reason!). You're lucky you're not craving unhealthy stuff! If you ate well before the run and yesterday and topped up as you went along today, you might find you'd not be as hungry afterwards. Make sure to get in some carbs and protein within 20 mins of finishing your run and then a good meal within an hour or two afterwards.

Yes I had porridge before the Frank Duffy & really felt it made a difference that day. It just I generally get up mad early and get the run done, try to get out between 6 & half so will have to start getting up super early from now one!!

Didn’t take a sports drink, will try that next week. Took on plenty of water, more than usual, and felt that it helped.

I am comfortable with the pace I am doing, but feel like I have nothing left towards the end, so net week will try to start out at and maintain a pace closer to 11 & see how I get on. Really hoping to hit the 20 mile mark next week, all going well!

I took 2 energy gels & def felt they helped, and didn’t have any problems with crap so will keep doing that.
I had carbs yesterday as I know was doing the lsr, but next week will try to improve on this, and add in the breakfast. Did eat within 20 minues of finishing and had a decent breakfast about an hour later so was feeling fine, just throughout the day I am feeling really hungry!
Cheers for all the advice, Im sure these q’s have been asked a million times before!

Ososlo

Alan30 wrote: »

I used power bar gels on my last 2 LSR felt ok after them but didn't think they give me any boost. Might try some other brands but have being toying with the idea of getting a couple of bananas for about late on in the runs as I start to feel hungry at about 15/16 mile

It might be hard carrying bananas with you on the day though so consider that too. Unless you could get someone to pass you one on a few different spots on the course on the day.

Alan30

Ososlo wrote: »

It might be hard carrying bananas with you on the day though so consider that too. Unless you could get someone to pass you one on a few different spots on the course on the day.

Yeah I was thinking someone could meet me about mile 12/13 near Phoenix park exit. I will see if better fueling before runs will see me through but I know I can eat a banana or 2 without it effecting me.

Ososlo

Alan30 wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking someone could meet me about mile 12/13 near Phoenix park exit. I will see if better fueling before runs will see me through but I know I can eat a banana or 2 without it effecting me.

If you do decide to arrange to meet someone then ensure to pick a spot that won't be too congested. I met someone on Chesterfield Avenue (perfect spot) to get a drink handed to me last year and it worked out great. Try and go to the spot together before the day so you're both very clear about where exactly you'll meet and have a plan b in case you're late or early or they can't get to the specific side of the road that you initially plan on meeting at.

Alan30

Ososlo wrote: »

If you do decide to arrange to meet someone then ensure to pick a spot that won't be too congested. I met someone on Chesterfield Avenue (perfect spot) to get a drink handed to me last year and it worked out great. Try and go to the spot together before the day so you're both very clear about where exactly you'll meet and have a plan b in case you're late or early or they can't get to the specific side of the road that you initially plan on meeting at.

Thanks will have to do that as I wouldn't be to fimiliar with that part of Dublin.