DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Ososlo

Alan30 wrote: »

Thanks will have to do that as I wouldn't be to fimiliar with that part of Dublin.

Some of us might have even practiced the passing strategy:o:o:o not naming any names

JohnDozer

What a disastrous couple of weeks... Some of it my own doing, some of it not. It's all kicked off in work, short staffed for various reasons, so 2 60ish hour weeks plus my 3 hour daily commute have greatly limited my opportunities for running. Coupled with that, a few silly decisions have left the body and mind quite tired and sore, so that hasn't helped.

Did a 10k two weeks ago where I left it all out there. Still felt fine the following day and managed a 40 minute recovery run. The LSR for that week was 17 miles with 10 at MP, which I had bumped to Tuesday evening. For some unknown reason I thought it would be fine to play my first 5 a side game of soccer on AstroTurf in about a year on Tuesday at lunchtime. Was my usual competitive self. Set off on my LSR after a couple of hours back of work afterwards. Went fine for the first 7 of the MP miles but really really struggled to hold pace for the last 3 miles. Had to stop for 5-6 mins after the 10 MP miles, before a 2 mile cool down. Haven't been as f&@ked after a run for a long time and truth be told, I should have abandoned.

Since then the body and mind have been complaining about my stupidity. Managed a 4 mile easy run on the Thursday morning but knew I had done damage as the legs felt heavy and the heart wasn't in it. Enter the work situation then and a whole week elapsed until the next run. Looked at the plan and decided the best run to do would be a shortened version of the MP session, 7 miles with 2 X 15 mins @ MP. It went fine but the week off made it a bit of a struggle which stands to reason I guess. Got out this morning with the intention of just going for a run of around 6 miles, to see could I feel the love again. Feeling good on a nice morning so turned it into a progression run. A little bit of a niggle on the sole of the left foot, but all else seems in order.

So.... Even though I've a nice bit of mileage up, I only really have two LSR's done, 1 17 miler with last 4 @ MP and the 15.5 with 10 @ MP from last week. I feel I'm at a point where think I may have to switch plans. Just feel like I have a lot of little niggles and fatigue (both running related and work related) at the moment, which I'll surely aggravate if I push too much. I've also taken my eye off the ball/ plan when it comes to non-essential races too and hasn't helped with all the pushing things on the plan back and forth. My decision making around getting involved in other sporting activities needs looking at too.

In saying all that, I'm going to aim for the slow 20 miler in the morning with the route planned to allow for cutting a little short if things not going well. I feel I need to do this for myself to get back on track, I feel there is a lack of proper long runs in my training over the last few months. Events of the last few weeks have really knocked the confidence I had about being able to stick with the plan. I know I don't post that much, more of an avid reader and an occasional poster, but if anyone has any observations or suggestions I would appreciate.

Ososlo

JohnDozer wrote: »

What a disastrous couple of weeks... Some of it my own doing, some of it not. It's all kicked off in work, short staffed for various reasons, so 2 60ish hour weeks plus my 3 hour daily commute have greatly limited my opportunities for running. Coupled with that, a few silly decisions have left the body and mind quite tired and sore, so that hasn't helped.

Did a 10k two weeks ago where I left it all out there. Still felt fine the following day and managed a 40 minute recovery run. The LSR for that week was 17 miles with 10 at MP, which I had bumped to Tuesday evening. For some unknown reason I thought it would be fine to play my first 5 a side game of soccer on AstroTurf in about a year on Tuesday at lunchtime. Was my usual competitive self. Set off on my LSR after a couple of hours back of work afterwards. Went fine for the first 7 of the MP miles but really really struggled to hold pace for the last 3 miles. Had to stop for 5-6 mins after the 10 MP miles, before a 2 mile cool down. Haven't been as f&@ked after a run for a long time and truth be told, I should have abandoned.

Since then the body and mind have been complaining about my stupidity. Managed a 4 mile easy run on the Thursday morning but knew I had done damage as the legs felt heavy and the heart wasn't in it. Enter the work situation then and a whole week elapsed until the next run. Looked at the plan and decided the best run to do would be a shortened version of the MP session, 7 miles with 2 X 15 mins @ MP. It went fine but the week off made it a bit of a struggle which stands to reason I guess. Got out this morning with the intention of just going for a run of around 6 miles, to see could I feel the love again. Feeling good on a nice morning so turned it into a progression run. A little bit of a niggle on the sole of the left foot, but all else seems in order.

So.... Even though I've a nice bit of mileage up, I only really have two LSR's done, 1 17 miler with last 4 @ MP and the 15.5 with 10 @ MP from last week. I feel I'm at a point where think I may have to switch plans. Just feel like I have a lot of little niggles and fatigue (both running related and work related) at the moment, which I'll surely aggravate if I push too much. I've also taken my eye off the ball/ plan when it comes to non-essential races too and hasn't helped with all the pushing things on the plan back and forth. My decision making around getting involved in other sporting activities needs looking at too.

In saying all that, I'm going to aim for the slow 20 miler in the morning with the route planned to allow for cutting a little short if things not going well. I feel I need to do this for myself to get back on track, I feel there is a lack of proper long runs in my training over the last few months. Events of the last few weeks have really knocked the confidence I had about being able to stick with the plan. I know I don't post that much, more of an avid reader and an occasional poster, but if anyone has any observations or suggestions I would appreciate.

If you're finding that plan a bit taxing, don't be afraid to tweak it to suit yourself. It does seem like a fairly tough plan for a novice marathoner so if you're struggling then you should do something about it now and get some of the love back.
The main runs to get in are your lsr (with or without mp, lots of people have done successful first marathon with no mp work) a decent length mid-week medium long run and a few very easy/recovery runs around that. As long as you're getting a decent total weekly mileage done, you'll be well set.
A lsr with 10 at mp is a very tough run that I'd see lots of experienced runners doing around Baords but not many novice marathoners. With everything that you have going on, it mightn't be any harm to take a step-back and give yourself a bit of a break. Good luck with the 20 and look forward to hearing how you get on.

neilthefunkeone

Lsr of 19 miles done this morning.. it was the longest run I've ever done.. and it was great.. plodded around on average of 10:44 per mile..

Little bit of wind that made some open stretches a little difficult but over all very happy..

Legs are feeling fine now but I'll get out in the morning for a few recovery miles anyway...

Edit: Here's the Garmin activity

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/579216096

Casey78

fcuk me that was tough. 17.3 miles done this morning at 9'38 min a mile pace.
Last 2 miles were torture but I got there.
Time for a cold bath and a sleep before the Liverpool Spurs game.

Pacing Mule

Casey78 wrote: »

fcuk me that was tough. 17.3 miles done this morning at 9'38 min a mile pace.
Last 2 miles were torture but I got there.
Time for a cold bath and a sleep before the Liverpool Spurs game.

COYS !

Casey78

Pacing Mule wrote: »

COYS !

Nonsense....! YNWA....:)

annapr

After the high of Frank Duffy last weekend, midweek runs were fine and felt good -- 3mi/7mi/4mi.

I did my longest LSR yesterday -- 15 miles/24.2k... hey I'm on the Hal Higdon Novice Plan, it seemed long to me! Would normally do it on Sunday but there's a small matter of an All-Ireland Semi Final today (up Donegal!)

So relieved to read everyone's reports here about how hard the LSR's are getting, it's not just me then! by the end yesterday, I was convince that this is an UNNATURAL thing to be doing on a saturday morning.

Set off yesterday morning with a headache and feeling tired and regretting have a couple of glasses of wine on Friday night. 5k to the Phoenix Park was fine, started to forget about the headache. Then a circuit of the Park... I love those trails under the trees around the North road, past Farmleigh to Knockmaroon gate... I could hear there was an event on but it was so quiet and peaceful. Then down into the Furry Glen, the pond being almost the halfway point, enjoying the beauty of it before getting almost run over by a police motorbike and an emergency vehicle...seemed they were doing a sweep of the course after the Great Pink Run.

Took a gel at 12k, no idea if it helped but it didn't hurt. Had to do a few KM up chesterfield Avenue so that I would be at about 19K coming out of the park (knowing it was 5k to home)... that felt hard, especially dodging the Pink crowds who were coming from the finish line. Left the park and headed up NCR, took the canal bank from Cross Guns Bridge to Binns Bridge... lovely to be beside water... at this point I was eagerly waiting to hit 15miles.

After navigating through College Football crowds headed to Croker, crossed the 15mile barrier on Richmond Road... walked the rest of the way home. As soon as I started walking, every muscle felt like it was on fire. I was fine as long as I kept running!

I fell in the door home, thinking 1) I can't move one more inch today and 2) there is NO WAY I could do another 11 miles on top of this, ever. On the first point I was able to hobble around again after an hour or so, on the second, I'm going to bite the bullet and register today for DCM.

This morning, calf muscles and ankles are a bit stiff, other than that fine. I thought I would sleep like a log last night but nope. Still knackered.

Running conditions were perfect yesterday, light breeze, not too warm, a cooling sprinkle of rain in the park. Kept a pretty consistent pace throughout, slowed a little for the last couple of miles.

Avg Pace: 6:14 min/km; 10:02 min/mile

My recovery today will be walking to and from Croker, and a lot of tension and angst until 5pm (hopefully not humiliation... COME ON DONEGAL!!!)

Ososlo

Casey78 wrote: »

fcuk me that was tough. 17.3 miles done this morning at 9'38 min a mile pace.
Last 2 miles were torture but I got there.
Time for a cold bath and a sleep before the Liverpool Spurs game.

10 miles at race pace yesterday and 17 tough miles today??!!!! Tread very very carefully Casey

Ososlo

Well done annapr. Great to have that one under the belt. Did that pace feel quite comfortable? Do you have any particular target time in mind for dcm?

annapr

Ososlo wrote: »

Well done annapr. Great to have that one under the belt. Did that pace feel quite comfortable? Do you have any particular target time in mind for dcm?

thanks Ososlo, yes that pace feels very comfortable, if anything I have to remind myself early on to slow down... which is still amazing to me because a year ago if I was breaking 6:00min/km at all, it felt fast.

My first target is to DO the DCM... I'm not sure what to aim for. I've been listening to your advice not to push it too much and try to enjoy it. My better half (heading to Berlin in Sept) says that 4:15 should be in range, but that sounds way too intimidating to me. So, I'm still thinking that anywhere around 4:30 would be great... for the half in Sept, I'm probably going to go for 2:05ish...

Any advice or suggestions?

Firedance

annapr wrote: »

My recovery today will be walking to and from Croker, and a lot of tension and angst until 5pm (hopefully not humiliation... COME ON DONEGAL!!!)

well done on the LSR but you've misspelled Dublin there annapr :-)

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

thanks Ososlo, yes that pace feels very comfortable, if anything I have to remind myself early on to slow down... which is still amazing to me because a year ago if I was breaking 6:00min/km at all, it felt fast.

My first target is to DO the DCM... I'm not sure what to aim for. I've been listening to your advice not to push it too much and try to enjoy it. My better half (heading to Berlin in Sept) says that 4:15 should be in range, but that sounds way too intimidating to me. So, I'm still thinking that anywhere around 4:30 would be great... for the half in Sept, I'm probably going to go for 2:05ish...

Any advice or suggestions?

I was just looking at your 10 mile race time there. McMillan would give you a marathon time of 4:12. However, McMillan isn't realistic at all for a first marathon so I'd be looking at about 4:30 if I was you. I think you'd be setting yourself up for a much nicer all round experience if you were less aggressive for your first marathon. You do seem to be making great fitness gains recently so I wouldn't make any decision until after the half.

McMillan would be suggesting you do your lsr a bit slower too at the moment - up to 10:50 pace so I'd be inclined to slow that down a bit too.
Recovery jogs up to 11:20.

annapr

Ososlo wrote: »

I was just looking at your 10 mile race time there. McMillan would give you a marathon time of 4:12. However, McMillan isn't realistic at all for a first marathon so I'd be looking at about 4:30 if I was you. I think you'd be setting yourself up for a much nicer all round experience if you were less aggressive for your first marathon. You do seem to be making great fitness gains recently so I wouldn't make any decision until after the half.

McMillan would be suggesting you do your lsr a bit slower too at the moment - up to 10:50 pace so I'd be inclined to slow that down a bit too.
Recovery jogs up to 11:20.

Thanks, I would be delighted if I could do DCM in 4:30... I will try to slow down the next LSR, I'm finding that hard to do, never thought I would see the day I'd say that!!!

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

Thanks, I would be delighted if I could do DCM in 4:30... I will try to slow down the next LSR, I'm finding that hard to do, never thought I would see the day I'd say that!!!

As I said, see how you go for the half and work it out then for the big day.

Ha ha yeah it's a great complaint to have having to tell yourself to slow down!!! Well done you're really flying it! Looking forward to seeing how you do in the half.

annapr

Ososlo wrote: »

As I said, see how you go for the half and work it out then for the big day.

Ha ha yeah it's a great complaint to have having to tell yourself to slow down!!! Well done you're really flying it! Looking forward to seeing how you do in the half.

I did it... I REGISTERED FOR DCM! gulp. Considering 15m nearly killed me yesterday, did I lose my mind overnight or what...

saved €10 by doing it today instead of tomorrow.... or wasted €85, depending on how it turns out.

Ososlow, it's all your fault for encouraging me :-)

Ososlo

annapr wrote: »

I did it... I REGISTERED FOR DCM! gulp. Considering 15m nearly killed me yesterday, did I lose my mind overnight or what...

saved €10 by doing it today instead of tomorrow.... or wasted €85, depending on how it turns out.

Ososlow, it's all your fault for encouraging me :-)

Brilliant! You won't regret it for one second. The first of many for you!
Good to remind people to sign up today and save the tenner. Anyone who's got to this stage of the training without too many hiccups can feel pretty confident that they'll be able to do a good DCM 2014!

tang1

annapr wrote: »

My recovery today will be walking to and from Croker, and a lot of tension and angst until 5pm (hopefully not humiliation... COME ON DONEGAL!!!)

+1 to that, Murph better be shouting for Donegal to.

JohnDozer

So... No 20 miler, no miles at all. Little niggle on sole of foot from yesterday a bit more evident today. Gonna see how things are later and get out if possible, maybe 10/11 miles. Time to re-evaluate where things are at. :-(

Dub13

Just in a while from a 22 mile run, the plan had me down for 18 to 20 miles, with last 4 miles at marathon pace. I had a problem fitting the 2 runs in this weekend, I did fit them in I did 13k yesterday. I only finished yesterdays run at 19:00 last night and started todays LSR at 07:00, so only 12 hours rest between them. While this is not ideal it was the only way I could do it, a couple of advantages. The legs got more practice running tired, also I am resting tomorrow and will not be doing my Tuesday run till lunchtime so a good 50 hours plus rest for me now.

This was my third run at 20 miles or over, 3 more to go in the plan so half way there. While I would not say they are getting easier they are definitely getting more comfortable. I was tired at the end but not shattered, I did MP KM's at 28,29,30 & 31 these were grand but I did slow down after them. I took 2 high 5 gels one @ 13k and another at 23k and they did help.

I am going to enjoy my day now.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/579124238#

annapr

tang1 wrote: »

+1 to that, Murph better be shouting for Donegal to.

well, not exactly, I'm surrounded by Dubs!!!

adrian522

Dub13 wrote: »

Just in a while from a 22 mile run, the plan had me down for 18 to 20 miles, with last 4 miles at marathon pace. I had a problem fitting the 2 runs in this weekend, I did fit them in I did 13k yesterday. I only finished yesterdays run at 19:00 last night and started todays LSR at 07:00, so only 12 hours rest between them. While this is not ideal it was the only way I could do it, a couple of advantages. The legs got more practice running tired, also I am resting tomorrow and will not be doing my Tuesday run till lunchtime so a good 50 hours plus rest for me now.

This was my third run at 20 miles or over, 3 more to go in the plan so half way there. While I would not say they are getting easier they are definitely getting more comfortable. I was tired at the end but not shattered, I did MP KM's at 28,29,30 & 31 these were grand but I did slow down after them. I took 2 high 5 gels one @ 13k and another at 23k and they did help.

I am going to enjoy my day now.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/579124238#

Hi, I thought you were doing BAA Intermeidate which has 4 20 mile runs not 6?

Also getting a bit confused with the miles/KM in the report.

Dub13

adrian522 wrote: »

Hi, I thought you were doing BAA Intermeidate which has 4 20 mile runs not 6?

Also getting a bit confused with the miles/KM in the report.

Yes I am doing the BAA, my plan from the start was to do as many 20 mile runs as possible. So I have turned a couple of the 18 mile or so runs already into 20. I did this in week 4 & 5 which were max 18 mile runs on the plan and week 7 was 20 mile which I added 2 mile onto. I don't have to add any more to the plan as weeks 9, 10 & 11 have 20 mile runs.

Sorry for the miles/KM confusion, I work in KM's but when doing reports here try to add in the miles. Maybe I should just stick to one.

tang1

Tri-athletes operate in KMs, runners use miles!!

Dub13

tang1 wrote: »

Tri-athletes operate in KMs, runners use miles!!

That's been said to me before in here but its very hard for me to get out of the habit so I just stopped trying and still use KMs.

tang1

Stick to whatever suits you best, no difference using KMs. I use miles cause theres only 26.2miles in a marathon but theres 42 kms.

Dub13

tang1 wrote: »

Stick to whatever suits you best, no difference using KMs. I use miles cause theres only 26.2miles in a marathon but theres 42 kms.

I messed around with miles for a bit but I found using KMs much better for pacing as its much more sensitive as its shorter splits.

laura_ac3

Mixed bag this week for me. I usually do my LSR on Saturday but with family commitments this week I had to push it to Sunday. Swapped in another short run from next week so as not to a miss a day.

Sunday - 4 miles. Was really feeling the running love on this one for some reason. Probably went a bit fast though, intended to be a recovery run but felt full of energy and couldn't seem to keep it as slow as I intended. Decided to just enjoy it, pace was more close to marathon pace.

Monday - rest.

Tuesday - 8 miles. Sluggish initially but freshened up about half way though, kept the pace around LSR pace.

Wednesday - football.

Thursday - 5 miles easy.

Friday - rest.

Saturday - 5 miles easy.

Sunday - 14 mile LSR. Supposed to be 18/19 but I cut it short. Had been feeling apprehensive about this anyway due to the family stuff knocking my routine around a bit. The other half has been sick the last few days and I felt a bit of it myself too but luckily not as bad. So I think I started off negatively mentally and that eventually won out. I knew I was in trouble today with the heat, wasn't expecting that after the recent weather! Went to the park and got some of the hills done which was good but by mile 14 I was dead on my feet, legs were in a heap. Decided to cut it short - I'm still a week ahead of my schedule with next week supposed to be a 14 mile run so I decided to call it quits and make it up next week instead. I haven't looked at my splits yet but the pacing mightn't have been as consistent as other weeks, couple of them might have been too fast. Maybe it was just the efforts of the last week, along with an extra midweek short run taking it's toll. Will try again next week and hope it goes better!

I did get new runners this week and broke them in on two shorter runs with no problems so happy that got sorted. Interesting to see that's there's a few if us in the same boat this week - onwards and upwards for us all hopefully!

Joleigh

Oh what a beautiful morning! Today's LSR went well. After 8m pace (but not really pace) yesterday I was feeling wrecked and doubtful. Got to bed early and headed off for my 17 mile run this morning at 8.45am. After about 4 miles I took a gel (was aprehensive about this as the last few times I tried them it didnt go well). The gel wasnt bad at all and I felt good after it. Only problem is I threw the pack in the bin and cant remember the name. Think it was a freebie in the Raheny 5m goodie bag. It was called something like "kinect".It was lime flavour and not as gloopy as other ones I've tried. Sipped on water after it. Ran along the quays and Dublin looked so nice I crossed the liffey 4 times just because I wanted to run on the bridges. At around mile 9 I stopped in a garage for a sports drink. It was a bigger than average bottle and lasted me almost all the way home.

The last couple miles were tough but not as tough as I expected and if I could have kept going if I had to. I was almost home and only at 16 miles so did a lap of a park near my house so got home at 17.02 miles. My average pace was 10.30mm (taking into account several set of slow traffic lights!) and it felt very comfortable. I was worried about my achilles heel and my stiff knee but both were ok when I got home. I'll keep at the foam roller which I think is really helping.

Did a few stretches when I got home, quick shower, food and went to the zoo! I am glad to be home now. Trying to register for the marathon but the site is really slow. I presume is full of people registering before it goes up another tenner.

All in all, it was a good weekend. Feeling determined! Good to hear most people are getting up in the mileage and doing well.

Ososlo

Joleigh wrote: »

Oh what a beautiful morning! Today's LSR went well. After 8m pace (but not really pace) yesterday I was feeling wrecked and doubtful. Got to bed early and headed off for my 17 mile run this morning at 8.45am. After about 4 miles I took a gel (was aprehensive about this as the last few times I tried them it didnt go well). The gel wasnt bad at all and I felt good after it. Only problem is I threw the pack in the bin and cant remember the name. Think it was a freebie in the Raheny 5m goodie bag. It was called something like "kinect".It was lime flavour and not as gloopy as other ones I've tried. Sipped on water after it. Ran along the quays and Dublin looked so nice I crossed the liffey 4 times just because I wanted to run on the bridges. At around mile 9 I stopped in a garage for a sports drink. It was a bigger than average bottle and lasted me almost all the way home.

The last couple miles were tough but not as tough as I expected and if I could have kept going if I had to. I was almost home and only at 16 miles so did a lap of a park near my house so got home at 17.02 miles. My average pace was 10.30mm (taking into account several set of slow traffic lights!) and it felt very comfortable. I was worried about my achilles heel and my stiff knee but both were ok when I got home. I'll keep at the foam roller which I think is really helping.

Did a few stretches when I got home, quick shower, food and went to the zoo! I am glad to be home now. Trying to register for the marathon but the site is really slow. I presume is full of people registering before it goes up another tenner.

All in all, it was a good weekend. Feeling determined! Good to hear most people are getting up in the mileage and doing well.

Great stuff. Well done! This could be the gel you tried today....