DCM 2014: Mentored Novices Thread

Kurt Godel

Half Marathon Pacers:

1:30
Wounded Knee
Beepbeep67
Dublin Runner

1:40
Menoscemo
Gavlor
FBOT01

1:50
MarthaStew
Ferris B
Breffni Blue

2:00
Chinguetti
Aimann
Jonny99

JohnDozer

Got my 20 LSR done... Apologies for the drama, was starting to get into a major panic! Body feels fine now, still early days though, only finished at 7pm... We'll see what the morning brings! Crisis averted... For now...

I enjoyed most of it... Few little mental challenges around mile 8, mile 14 and 17. All sorts of devilish bargaining going on in my head trying to cut it short and go again another day, fortunately managed to talk the voices around by convincing them I'd gone this far, might as well go to 20 and have it done. Only thing I did that I don't normally do was a flying visit to a shop for lucozade sport as I hate carrying stuff. Drank it all within a mile or two which gave me some dose of the burps, not ideal but not many ways around a hatred for carrying bottles. Went a little quicker than planned, I think it was the adrenaline from finally getting out to do this, hopefully no Ill effects and I won't make the same mistake next day out.

I also now know there is no need to plan on carrying a stash of Vaseline on the day as I won't have any nipples left by then!!!

Did two 10k runs Saturday and Sunday, just went out and ran and made it up as I went along. Ended up doing nice and lively runs, bit disappointed not hitting higher mileage, but both runs gave me a feel good factor that's been missing for a week or too... I'm going to blame work, which has stabilised now (I hope) and hopefully put it behind me after tonight...

Ososlo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Sneak preview for Ososlo because she's doing a great job mentoring this thread;)

thank you kind sir;)

Ososlo

Gavlor wrote: »

Just mind out for tang1 :eek:

ha ha yeah just got that. It's probably illegal to pee in the Park too!

AuldManKing

Gavlor wrote: »

Just mind out for tang1 :eek:

Post of the day. Well played sir.

Kurt Godel

Sub 3 should have about 400 in front of them.
Sub 3:50 start at front of Wave 2.
Sub 4:20 start at front of Wave 3.
Every other pacer is positioned accordingly.
You'll notice them with huge flags (numbered according to target time), just gather close to them at the start and keep the flags in general sight during the race. Don't be the guy who takes "stick to the pacers shoulder" literally.
Pacers will run steady splits throughout the race (ie they won't be banking time, or running much faster/slower on downhills/uphills).
Aim of the pacers is to finish about 30 seconds before their pace band time.
There are 3 pacers per time band, they may spread a little during the race so don't sweat if you are around the 3rd pacer and the 1st pacer is 20m ahead.
If you don't like pacers just run your own race and ignore them.
If you do like pacers they tend to be thirsty creatures so water them well in McGrattans pub afterwards.

adrian522

So my target for the half is 1:45, I guess I'm paddling my own canoe so to speak, don't fancy tearing off with the 1:40 pacers, that could go very well or very badly, and I fancy myself to be able to pace 1:45ish myself so I won't go with the 1:50 guys.

Joleigh

Will the pacers stop for a pee in the park with us?

Wubble Wubble

Very good, not sure at the moment whether to hitch my wagon to the 1:40 pacers, or hang back closer to 1:50? PB is 1:37 (Carlingford '14) but I've had to scrap my planned DCM run (lack of training, injuries) so might just go by feel on the day and not even bother with the watch :rolleyes:

tHE vAGGABOND

I think it'd be great if some of the more experienced boardsies could tell the novices how in their experiences they have managed the fuelling for their marathons. How many gels they carry, how much sports drink if any, how much water etc on the big day.

Was reading back and could not resist this, as I have posted more than one pre-marathon madness "what should I eat" thread here in the past.

I cant stomach more than 3 gels. So I look at people holding 20 gels at the start lines of races with mixture of WTF! and envy. But in two different marathons I have taken one at the start and then aimed to take one every 10k or so, and at the 30k gel I was feeling terrible with all manner of stomach issues. I also don't really like the "goopy" ones [just taste rubbish to me].

Im training for a marathon now [Alas not Dublin, despite the route change almost bringing it by my front door], and for my first couple of 20 milers I had no gels or water or anything [was ok, but clearly slowed down, as you would expect tbh] and for last couple I have been playing with strategies around taking two gels [with a view to using 3 on race day, and will try that in my last long run]. But you lot are going to be different, you will see some folks taking gels every 40 mins without a bother on them.

I got new runners last week, in Amphibian King. So at the same time I got two each of 4 different gels to try some out. So based on what I like, what Im looking for I was looking for "watery" gels, calories in the gel [more not less], salt content, flavours I like etc [I also tried out a caffeine free one, as I have all but cut caffeine from my diet for a few reasons, no harm in trying]. But again everyone should know what they like and dislike..

Re: Water - Drink to Thirst - simple as that. There is a huge amount of total rubbish out there around sports drinks [Read Waterlogged by Dr Tim Noakes] and drinking before you get thirsty and all that kinda stuff. There are HUGE water stations every 3 miles or so, so in a big marathon you really dont need to carry anything IMHO - so some people [me included] drink a tiny bit every second station or something like that, and others do something else. But dont DONT force water into you "for the sake of it" that is seriously dangerous.

JohnDozer

adrian522 wrote: »

So my target for the half is 1:45, I guess I'm paddling my own canoe so to speak, don't fancy tearing off with the 1:40 pacers, that could go very well or very badly, and I fancy myself to be able to pace 1:45ish myself so I won't go with the 1:50 guys.

Wise enough choice I'd say, a 5 minute swing either way is significant enough at half marathon. What kind of time is McMillan giving you from the 10 mile result?

JohnDozer

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Was reading back and could not resist this, as I have posted more than one pre-marathon madness "what should I eat" thread here in the past.

I cant stomach more than 3 gels. So I look at people holding 20 gels at the start lines of races with mixture of WTF! and envy. But in two different marathons I have taken one at the start and then aimed to take one every 10k or so, and at the 30k gel I was feeling terrible with all manner of stomach issues. I also don't really like the "goopy" ones [just taste rubbish to me].

Im training for a marathon now [Alas not Dublin, despite the route change almost bringing it by my front door], and for my first couple of 20 milers I had no gels or water or anything [was ok, but clearly slowed down, as you would expect tbh] and for last couple I have been playing with strategies around taking two gels [with a view to using 3 on race day, and will try that in my last long run]. But you lot are going to be different, you will see some folks taking gels every 40 mins without a bother on them.

I got new runners last week, in Amphibian King. So at the same time I got two each of 4 different gels to try some out. So based on what I like, what Im looking for I was looking for "watery" gels, calories in the gel [more not less], salt content, flavours I like etc [I also tried out a caffeine free one, as I have all but cut caffeine from my diet for a few reasons, no harm in trying]. But again everyone should know what they like and dislike..

Re: Water - Drink to Thirst - simple as that. There is a huge amount of total rubbish out there around sports drinks [Read Waterlogged by Dr Tim Noakes] and drinking before you get thirsty and all that kinda stuff. There are HUGE water stations every 3 miles or so, so in a big marathon you really dont need to carry anything IMHO - so some people [me included] drink a tiny bit every second station or something like that, and others do something else. But dont DONT force water into you "for the sake of it" that is seriously dangerous.

Can I ask why you decided to cut caffeine completely? Just interested because I'm a dedicated coffee drinker, and most of the stuff out there seems to indicate that a moderate amount is OK and has some benefits even. Or maybe that's just the biased way I'm interpreting it...

adrian522

JohnDozer wrote: »

Wise enough choice I'd say, a 5 minute swing either way is significant enough at half marathon. What kind of time is McMillan giving you from the 10 mile result?

McMillian gives me a 1:45:20 but I'll have another few weeks training done so would be confident/hopeful of a sub 1:45

Casey78

What brand gels did you buy the vAGGABOND? I don't like the goopy gels either and would be interested in trying a more water type one like you described.

KillianByrne

1:50 and 4:00? Looks like Marthastew is stalking me...

KillianByrne

In 2012 I was following 4:15 and in my novice enthusiasm 'stuck to the pacers shoulder'. It was all going fine until Kurt decided to 'take a break' just after the zoo...

Laois_Man

So I was at the physio this morning and got a very painful going over down my left IT band.

I am very tight in lots of places though and they're setting me up with a course of 3 or 4 sports massages over the next 8 weeks.

I am hoping to get out for a fairly short and very slow run tonight.

They also recommended that I take fish oil supplements, a particular Swedish brand, to help reduce muscle soreness, increase lean body mass etc.

Hopefully I can run tonight. 8 miles is on the plan but I'll be happy to do half that.

ChadHogan

adrian522 wrote: »

McMillian gives me a 1:45:20 but I'll have another few weeks training done so would be confident/hopeful of a sub 1:45

I tried following 1:40 pacers last year off the back of a 1:20:xx 10-mile. This strategy was an attempt to bank time. I blew up spectacularly, ended up getting passed by the 2 hr pacers after about 8 miles and DNF'd between miles 9 & 10, with an issue with my hip. I have not had this problem before or since so I’m almost sure it was as a result of me starting way to fast. The whole day was one big painful lesson.

I will say I didn’t have anything close to the training base you have, so maybe on the right course for the right person such a strategy could work, but I certainly wont be trying it again anytime soon.

I’ll be looking to sneak in under 1:45 as well, having done the 10 mile in just under 1:18, I’m going to try pace it nice and evenly too so will have to do without the pacers this time

adrian522

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of following pacers anyway, half the fun of these races is to learn how to pace it properly and make your mistakes and learn from them.

Gavlor

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of following pacers anyway, half the fun of these races is to learn how to pace it properly and make your mistakes and learn from them.

Screw you so!

adrian522

If things go well I'll be the lunatic sprinting past you on the finishing straight .... or not.

rockwell

It’s with a heavy heart that I have say DCM training is over for me. Had pain in my left foot last week on my runs and following some scans it appears I have slight damage around the talus bone. Consultant plans to bring me in for a cortisone injection but has told me to stop the running. It would have been great to have done one marathon but there is no point in feeling sorry for myself I’ve just got to get on with things and find a new sport with less impact on the joints. I’ve enjoyed the training and this forum has been a great help.
I’ll be watching with interest how you all get on. There is amazing training going on , over 7,000 miles as group, so keep it up and stay positive

aquinn

**Warning, moaning post**
OMG have the fear of GOD in me. Am exhausted and still catching up on everyones posts.
Training completely shot since the 10 mile and now full of worry.
Did 4m last Monday, 8 on Thursday and then with wine flu, nearly died on Sat and Sailing on Sunday and now bruising I didn't manage any LSR and am really worried now as to what my goals are this week.
Confidence completely lost in myself due to tirediness and not getting the LSR done. Also have a 5km race this evening and worried I'll go flat out and wreck myself and still a half to do this month. ARRGH.
Well done on those that did the LSR. I'm only on logs from 30/08 so far so will be in a completely knot when I'm up-to-date. Could actully weep.

aquinn

P.S, can't edit post for some reason.
My Garmin isn't having a good moment and keeps fading so think it needs to be replaced.
I currently have the Forerunner 110, Any other recommendations or I'll just go with this again?
Thanks.

Casey78

aquinn wrote: »

P.S, can't edit post for some reason.
My Garmin isn't having a good moment and keeps fading so think it needs to be replaced.
I currently have the Forerunner 110, Any other recommendations or I'll just go with this again?
Thanks.

I have the Nike gps watch and have no complaints with it.

adrian522

aquinn wrote: »

**Warning, moaning post**
OMG have the fear of GOD in me. Am exhausted and still catching up on everyones posts.
Training completely shot since the 10 mile and now full of worry.
Did 4m last Monday, 8 on Thursday and then with wine flu, nearly died on Sat and Sailing on Sunday and now bruising I didn't manage any LSR and am really worried now as to what my goals are this week.
Confidence completely lost in myself due to tirediness and not getting the LSR done. Also have a 5km race this evening and worried I'll go flat out and wreck myself and still a half to do this month. ARRGH.
Well done on those that did the LSR. I'm only on logs from 30/08 so far so will be in a completely knot when I'm up-to-date. Could actully weep.

Would you consider dropping the 5KM race and build up the confidence with some easy paced miles instead and follow that up with a LSR over the weekend?

SeanPuddin

rockwell wrote: »

It’s with a heavy heart that I have say DCM training is over for me. Had pain in my left foot last week on my runs and following some scans it appears I have slight damage around the talus bone. Consultant plans to bring me in for a cortisone injection but has told me to stop the running. It would have been great to have done one marathon but there is no point in feeling sorry for myself I’ve just got to get on with things and find a new sport with less impact on the joints. I’ve enjoyed the training and this forum has been a great help.
I’ll be watching with interest how you all get on. There is amazing training going on , over 7,000 miles as group, so keep it up and stay positive

Sorry to hear that Rockwell, plenty of other sports in the sea and all that.

Nicsx

rockwell wrote: »

It’s with a heavy heart that I have say DCM training is over for me. Had pain in my left foot last week on my runs and following some scans it appears I have slight damage around the talus bone. Consultant plans to bring me in for a cortisone injection but has told me to stop the running. It would have been great to have done one marathon but there is no point in feeling sorry for myself I’ve just got to get on with things and find a new sport with less impact on the joints. I’ve enjoyed the training and this forum has been a great help.
I’ll be watching with interest how you all get on. There is amazing training going on , over 7,000 miles as group, so keep it up and stay positive

Sorry to hear that, Rockwell.

Laois_Man

rockwell wrote: »

It’s with a heavy heart that I have say DCM training is over for me. Had pain in my left foot last week on my runs and following some scans it appears I have slight damage around the talus bone. Consultant plans to bring me in for a cortisone injection but has told me to stop the running. It would have been great to have done one marathon but there is no point in feeling sorry for myself I’ve just got to get on with things and find a new sport with less impact on the joints. I’ve enjoyed the training and this forum has been a great help.
I’ll be watching with interest how you all get on. There is amazing training going on , over 7,000 miles as group, so keep it up and stay positive

Maybe you can still do a Spring martahon in 2015 - Limerick or Cork?
Or even try for DCM again next year?

digger2d2

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of following pacers anyway, half the fun of these races is to learn how to pace it properly and make your mistakes and learn from them.

I would disagree with you on this one Adrian (and not just because I'm defending the honour of pacers )

By all means make the pacing mistakes in lead up races but don't fook around with your goal race and your first marathon.

There is a lot to be gained from just being in that ''group'', collective goal and all that. Genuinely, I've seen other runners as well as pacers helping novices through the couple of bad spells to go on and achieve their goal. The achievement is the same whether you run the 26.2 alone and barefoot as it is dressed in hi-viz lycra, €140 running shoes, a Garmin the size of a football field and the assistance of a pacing group. Get the fist one done and then you'll be better positioned to make those decisions going forward. Just my 2 cents worth anyway.