Transfer Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread - Summer 2014 - Mod note in OP

CSF

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Oh he is, main man for Brazil and likely to be the one who becomes the centerpiece of the Barcelona attack once Messi is done.

But Neymar isn't joining Man United. If he was he would be the new Pele

Andersonisgod

RasTa wrote: »

No that would be Suarez. Anyway it's a team game so debating this with you is as pointless as usual.

I think you will find no it isn't, especially since I am pretty sure Suarez is older than Messi.......

Andersonisgod

Blatter wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what RasTa said. He wasn't saying Neymar isn't top bracket, he was saying going by your pecking order logic, he isn't in the top bracket.

Common sense would dictate that you can simple relate it to the Real Madrid pecking order I talked about earlier, simple replace Ronaldo with Messi and Bale with Neymar, the situations are quite similar. Of course then you will say Suarez but PFA player of the year and his remarkable stats will justify his price tag.

Andersonisgod

CSF wrote: »

But Neymar isn't joining Man United. If he was he would be the new Pele

Going on the reaction to the Neymar signing (eg. "Di Maria is one of the best players in the world") I am confident that if Neymar signed for Man Utd there would already be Neymar murals on the walls of Old Trafford.

tupac_healy

Benatia done according to Sky

Christy Browne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Going on the reaction to the Neymar signing (eg. "Di Maria is one of the best players in the world") I am confident that if Neymar signed for Man Utd there would already be Neymar murals on the walls of Old Trafford.

Massively hypocritical and contradicting, so Neymar is second fiddle to Messi and Suarez but he's still top class. Yet Di Maria was second fiddle to Ronaldo and Bale so he is a lesser player because of this? Absolutely absurd

Andersonisgod

Christy Browne wrote: »

Massively hypocritical and contradicting, so Neymar is second fiddle to Messi and Suarez but he's still top class. Yet Di Maria was second fiddle to Ronaldo and Bale so he is a lesser player because of this? Absolutely absurd

Wrong, I definitely didn't say Neymar is third fiddle, I said second fiddle, equal to Bale, at worst both him and Suarez are second fiddle to Messi but I think Neymar will be the more favoured of the two and is certainly the one with the better long term prospects at Barcelona.

Lucas Hood

There's a post by Andersonisgod in the Bale to Madrid thread from last year where he states " not even that convinced that there is that big a gap between the two in terms of quality"

Will link to it when I can find the laptop.

Funny how things change.

DubDani

Can you discuss this via PM or open a seperate thread? This is the Transfer thread, not a discussion on Madrid vs. Barca or it's players. So annoying.

Christy Browne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Wrong, I definitely didn't say Neymar is third fiddle, I said second fiddle, equal to Bale, at worst both him and Suarez are second fiddle to Messi but I think Neymar will be the more favoured of the two and is certainly the one with the better long term prospects at Barcelona.

But Suarez is better than Neymar so surely he'd be ahead of him in the "pecking order" or has that been thrown out the window?

RayCun

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes they do, it's called the team sheet.

So where does it say who is the "main man". Where are the players ranked in order of how important they are?

CSF

DubDani wrote: »

Can you discuss this via PM or open a seperate thread? This is the Transfer thread, not a discussion on Madrid vs. Barca or it's players. So annoying.

It's about a transfer.

Didn't see the thread announcing you as a mod.

Rayne Wooney

tupac_healy

All the talk of second and third fiddle....

When exactly did it stop being a team sport? Don't forget about Messi being surround by a vast array of talent at Barca, some may argue somewhat less on the international stage but not that far away IMO...

Not downplaying Messi as I do believe he is the single greatest to ever lace up a set of boots, he's incredible but even he is part of a wider team picture, and as far as Di Maria goes, well.....

Remains to be seen how much of a part of that Madrid team he was, my guess, he will be SORELY missed there

Andersonisgod

Lucas Hood wrote: »

There's a post by Andersonisgod in the Bale to Madrid thread from last year where he states " not even that convinced that there is that big a gap between the two in terms of quality"

Will link to it when I can find the laptop.

Funny how things change.

Ah great research young man, however you have significantly undervalued the word "that" in my sentence.

CSF

tupac_healy wrote: »

All the talk of second and third fiddle....

When exactly did it stop being a team sport? Don't forget about Messi being surround by a vast array of talent at Barca, some may argue somewhat less on the international stage but not that far away IMO...

Not downplaying Messi as I do believe he is the single greatest to ever lace up a set of boots, he's incredible but even he is part of a wider team picture, and as far as Di Maria goes, well.....

Remains to be seen how much of a part of that Madrid team he was, my guess, he will be SORELY missed there

With them having signed Kroos and Rodriguez it's unlikely he will

Lucas Hood

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ah great research young man, however you have significantly undervalued the word "that" in my sentence.

I quoted it word for word.

Andersonisgod

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I quoted it word for word.

I don't doubt that you did, I am saying that in the sentence which you have quoted, the word "that" plays a significant role, it indicates that I acknowledge that there is a gap in quality between the two players, even if it isn't as big as some had claimed.

Christy Browne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't doubt that you did, I am saying that in the sentence which you have quoted, the word "that" plays a significant role, it indicates that I acknowledge that there is a gap in quality between the two players, even if it isn't as big as some had claimed.

I take it you aren't gonna answer my question so?

Christy Browne wrote: »

But Suarez is better than Neymar so surely he'd be ahead of him in the "pecking order" or has that been thrown out the window?

Blatter

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Common sense would dictate that you can simple relate it to the Real Madrid pecking order I talked about earlier, simple replace Ronaldo with Messi and Bale with Neymar, the situations are quite similar. Of course then you will say Suarez but PFA player of the year and his remarkable stats will justify his price tag.

So essentially you are saying that your pecking order logic applies to Real Madrid, but not Barcelona.

Cool.

Andersonisgod

RayCun wrote: »

So where does it say who is the "main man". Where are the players ranked in order of how important they are?

It can be seen with your very eyes on the pitch my dear boy, you can see that this is a Real Madrid side created to optimise the qualities of Ronaldo (and, to a lesser extent Bale). You can see that this is a Barcelona side created to optimise the qualities of Messi. This is why they are the star players.

Andersonisgod

Christy Browne wrote: »

I take it you aren't gonna answer my question so?

In all of the excitement surrounding "one of the best players in the world" joining Man Utd I will inevitably miss the odd comment, Suarez being better than Neymar is entirely debatable and we will see this season how that progresses, however in the long term is it certainly Neymar who will be the more important player for Barcelona.

Christy Browne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

In all of the excitement surrounding "one of the best players in the world" joining Man Utd I will inevitably miss the odd comment, Suarez being better than Neymar is entirely debatable and we will see this season how that progresses, however in the long term is it certainly Neymar who will be the more important player for Barcelona.

Suarez being better than Neymar is not one bit debatable though is it? He's on another level, and I'm a United fan

RayCun

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It can be seen with your very eyes on the pitch my dear boy, you can see that this is a Real Madrid side created to optimise the qualities of Ronaldo (and, to a lesser extent Bale). You can see that this is a Barcelona side created to optimise the qualities of Messi. This is why they are the star players.

Lol at the patronising tone
then your pecking order reduces simply to 'goal threat' and attacking players are always higher up the pecking order than people playing further back

Smithwicks Man

There's no debate about it, Suarez is most definitely better than Neymar

Christy Browne

Talk of pecking orders and players being second fiddle is grand when it's about Madrid but dare to question Neymar and the condescending tone comes out, along with the hypocrisy

Andersonisgod

RayCun wrote: »

Lol at the patronising tone
then your pecking order reduces simply to 'goal threat' and attacking players are always higher up the pecking order than people playing further back

Yes. Look at the top clubs in world football, how many of those club's star player is a center back, a full back or a holding midfielder? Don't mistake what I am saying, star player doesn't necessarily mean "best player" afterall how do you define who is better between Thiago Silva and Zlatan Ibrahimovic at PSG? What's the basis of judgement for that? How many successful tackles equals a goal?

Being the star player means being the player around which the system rotates, my most basic point at the start of this was that Di Maria has never been the star man for a top club or for his country and I doubt his capability of being the star man at Man Utd.

ASOT

Andersonisgod wrote: »

In all of the excitement surrounding "one of the best players in the world" joining Man Utd I will inevitably miss the odd comment, Suarez being better than Neymar is entirely debatable and we will see this season how that progresses, however in the long term is it certainly Neymar who will be the more important player for Barcelona.

Theres no debate. Obviously Neymar has alot more years ahead of him to excel though.

Andersonisgod

Christy Browne wrote: »

Talk of pecking orders and players being second fiddle is grand when it's about Madrid but dare to question Neymar and the condescending tone comes out, along with the hypocrisy

Nobody puts Neymar in the corner. I believe my tone is consistently aloof rather than condescending.

Andersonisgod

ASOT wrote: »

Theres no debate. Obviously Neymar has alot more years ahead of him to excel though.

I would put forward the argument that last season the Liverpool system was built around Suarez while Neymar was debuting in a new league and playing second fiddle to Messi in an under-performing Barcelona side but alas context be damned.

RayCun

Andersonisgod wrote: »

? Don't mistake what I am saying, star player doesn't necessarily mean "best player" afterall .

So now we agree that just because Di Maria was not at the top of the pecking order in Madrid, it doesn't mean he wasn't one of their best players

*drops mike*

tupac_healy

ASOT wrote: »

Theres no debate. Obviously Neymar has alot more years ahead of him to excel though.

No biting stats no?

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I would put forward the argument that last season the Liverpool system was built around Suarez while Neymar was debuting in a new league and playing second fiddle to Messi in an under-performing Barcelona side but alas context be damned.

I would say that neymar is talented but hugely and vastly over rated by a lot of people . His record for Brazil is good but he isn't in the same league as Suarez right now .

CSF

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I would say that neymar is talented but hugely and vastly over rated by a lot of people . His record for Brazil is good but he isn't in the same league as Suarez right now .

He's no Di Maria that's for sure

Christy Browne

CSF wrote: »

He's no Di Maria that's for sure

Love how you have no argument so you're resorting to sly jabs. Lovely stuff, keep it up.

Backstreet Moyes

Suarez is light years ahead of Neymar.

smileyj1987

CSF wrote: »

He's no Di Maria that's for sure

Hell I'm a Liverpool fan and even I can see how good of a player di Maria is .

DenMan

Just wondering about tonight and tomorrow nights Champions League qualifying games! Maybe some clubs are not playing some of their players in case they are not cup tied should deals be ongoing and transfers completed! We (Arsenal) could be in the mix! (buying, loaning and selling)

CSF

Christy Browne wrote: »

Love how you have no argument so you're resorting to sly jabs. Lovely stuff, keep it up.

I've been making arguments left, right and centre in this thread, have a look.

ctrl-alt-delete

CSF wrote: »

I've been making arguments left, right and centre in this thread, have a look.

Which would you say is your best position though :pac: ?

CSF

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Which would you say is your best position though :pac: ?

Doggy

Aenaes

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I would put forward the argument that last season the Liverpool system was built around Suarez while Neymar was debuting in a new league and playing second fiddle to Messi in an under-performing Barcelona side but alas context be damned.

Was it though? It was largely built around Suarez AND Sturridge to the extent that Sturridge played as the main striker with Suarez pushed a bit wider to accomodate him.

CSF

Aenaes wrote: »

Was it though? It was largely built around Suarez AND Sturridge to the extent that Sturridge played as the main striker with Suarez pushed a bit wider to accomodate him.

Think Sturridge benefited moreso from the oppositions gameplans to stop Suarez

Christy Browne

CSF wrote: »

I've been making arguments left, right and centre in this thread, have a look.

But when met with people disagreeing with you and having solid arguments to back it up you've cowered away and threw little immature jabs instead of backing up your points.

CSF

Christy Browne wrote: »

But when met with people disagreeing with you and having solid arguments to back it up you've cowered away and threw little immature jabs instead of backing up your points.

Nope, I've replied to every point put back at me. Have a look.

Aenaes

CSF wrote: »

Think Sturridge benefited moreso from the oppositions gameplans to stop Suarez

Oh definitely but it was Sturridge up front and central more often than not. He wasn't pushed out to the left to feed Suarez.

Edit: If that argument is to be used then surely Neymar would benefit the same way from playing alongside Messi.

CSF

Aenaes wrote: »

Oh definitely but it was Sturridge up front and central more often than not. He wasn't pushed out to the left to feed Suarez.

Yeah but I don't think Suarez operates best as a central striker in any case. The chap is too good on the ball to be waiting on other players to feed it to him in the box.

Christy Browne

CSF wrote: »

Nope, I've replied to every point put back at me. Have a look.

CSF wrote: »

I loved the Beatles before they were cool

CSF wrote: »

But Neymar isn't joining Man United. If he was he would be the new Pele

CSF wrote: »

He's no Di Maria that's for sure

Oh I've looked...

CSF

Christy Browne wrote: »

Oh I've looked...

If you looked you'd find plenty of counter arguments too. Look closer.

Lukker-

This thread is boring.

Di Maria is a top player, which there are very few available, further more United did have to pay a premium because it is harder for them to attract top players these days. They have huge revenue and everybody knows it. The transfer is purely subjective, when in a tranafer window where David Luiz went for close to £50m, the free doesn't sound too crazy.

It also brings an air of prestige back to the club, it shows they can still attract top talent and that in itself will snowball further.

I'd have him on par with the likes of Sanchez and Hazard and not far off the likes of Robben. He is also very versatile. Given the talent drain that happens in the EPL to La Liga, I'm happy to see big players come to the league.