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The Virgin Media Television thread

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    #3872
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    political analyst wrote: »
    Is TV3's broadcast licence up for renewal at a later date? If it is, could HD be brought up in negotiations between TV3 and the BAI?

    If it is, being in HD on Saorview should be a non-negotiable part of any future deal. TG4 needs to get its act together as well as regards this issue.


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    #3873
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    The programme contract between the BAI and TV3 is up in September but renewable on the same terms until 2023.

    At that point, who knows where we’ll all be, or how we’ll be viewing TV?

    For better or worse, the government has decided that broadcasting needs two regulators. The BAI has jurisdiction over content, but no jurisdiction over technical standards. That falls to Comreg. But equally, they have no authority to decide who gets to broadcast. If the BAI signs a contract with a particular company to provide a particular service, they are obliged to grant the BAI a broadcasting license for that service. That’s the split system we have.


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    #3874
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭deezell


    icdg wrote: »
    Comreg don’t have any jurisdiction to do that. They don’t own or operate Saorview. The only way they could do it would be to redefine the Irish DVB-T standard so that **all** channels had to be HD. I suspect that process, if embarked on, wouldn’t happen fast enough for those who are calling for its liking.

    Even that being the case TV3 would have a very good argument that they signed a contract with the BAI back in 2008 that did not place any requirement on them to operate a HD service, and that being the case, the authorities have no right to “move the goalposts” at this point.
    It would be easy enough to change payment model though, tell them they need to take a full mux, give them a little incentive maybe like the phone companies ( only x thousand euro for the first Y years subscription etc). There's a a fully functioning HD channel broadcasting a test card all day. They could switch to this overnight. The taxpayer funds this. Some heads need banging together.


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    #3875
    lgs 4
    Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭lgs 4


    icdg wrote: »
    Comreg don’t have any jurisdiction to do that. They don’t own or operate Saorview. The only way they could do it would be to redefine the Irish DVB-T standard so that **all** channels had to be HD. I suspect that process if embarked on, wouldn’t happen fast enough for those who are calling for its liking.

    Even that being the case TV3 would have a very good argument that they signed a contract with the BAI back in 2008 that did not place any requirement on them to operate an HD service, and that being the case, the authorities have no right to “move the goalposts” at this point.

    Yes back in 2008 HD Broadcasting was in it,s infancy even for the BBC.TV3 wants to hide behind the sky HD paywall as did Channel 5.Till the new owners took over Channel 5. TV3 are quite happy to keep things as they are, due to the Irish subscription percentage they get from Sky for being exclusively HD on Sky.That goes ITV 2,3,4 UK Gold and others.


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    #3876
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    lgs 4 wrote: »
    Yes back in 2008 HD Broadcasting was in it,s infancy even for the BBC.TV3 wants to hide behind the sky HD paywall as did Channel 5.Till the new owners took over Channel 5. TV3 are quite happy to keep things as they are, due to the Irish subscription percentage they get from Sky for being exclusively HD on Sky.That goes ITV 2,3,4 UK Gold and others.

    They are not exclusive to Sky for HD, TV3 is in HD on all pay platforms.


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    #3877
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    I am not sure “TV3 HD is exclusive to Sky” keeps getting repeated here when it’s simply not true.

    Think about who the owners of TV3 are for a moment.

    In fact Be3 HD is not on Sky. It is on Virgin Media, though.


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    #3878
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    deezell wrote: »
    It would be easy enough to change payment model though, tell them they need to take a full mux, give them a little incentive maybe like the phone companies ( only x thousand euro for the first Y years subscription etc). There's a a fully functioning HD channel broadcasting a test card all day. They could switch to this overnight. The taxpayer funds this. Some heads need banging together.

    Actually, RTE pays the excess, but if ComReg raised the spec for SD to 720 by 576i, it would improve PQ greatly. They could also permit a change to the charge regime that would favour more bandwidth per channel, by for example, making a higher bandwidth the minimum that can be used for charging purposes to favout higher PQ.

    Another option would be to give mux1 to RTE and mux2 to the others. RTE owns both muxes.


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    #3879
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    icdg wrote: »
    I am not sure “TV3 HD is exclusive to Sky” keeps getting repeated here when it’s simply not true.

    Think about who the owners of TV3 are for a moment.

    In fact Be3 HD is not on Sky. It is on Virgin Media, though.

    It's not exclusive, but if you are outside of a cabled area and want TV3 HD then a Sky dish is the only alternative. After the initial discounted period is over you are paying €46.50 a month (29.50 + 17 for the HD), as well as your tv license. Absolutely bloody bonkers......


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    #3880
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not exclusive, but if you are outside of a cabled area and want TV3 HD then a Sky dish is the only alternative. .

    That’s not even true either. If you can get Broadband, you may be able to take Vodafone TV or Eir vision.


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    #3881
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    icdg wrote: »
    That’s not even true either. If you can get Broadband, you may be able to take Vodafone TV or Eir vision.

    The bottom line is though, despite it being on various platforms you have to pay for it, in addition to your TV license. A fact that will not please many if they want Irish commentary and analysis similar to what they were used to when it was on RTE.


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    #3882
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Indeed.

    I think however, you can no longer expect TV3 to be platform agnostic, given that they are now owned by the second biggest pay TV company in the country. The Saorview rate card doesn’t help matters. But they are now firmly in the pay TV camp.


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    #3883
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    I don't think it matters anymore, the name of TV3 will be gone this year, they will all be gone, and have the names VM1, VM2 and VM3.
    I would liked to have paid a higher TV licence to pay for more HD channels, why did they not do that? instead of paying for SKY HD etc. And its true TV3 group are more like a pay platform.
    Moving on I guess, I'd like to see RTE1 and 2 move to full HD (1920 by 1080i) and TG4 move to HD (1440 by 1080i) upscale all others to 720 by 576i.
    We can forget about the Virgin Media group of fuzzy channels.


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    #3884
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    Moving on I guess, I'd like to see RTE1 and 2 move to full HD (1920 by 1080i) and TG4 move to HD (1440 by 1080i) upscale all others to 720 by 576i.
    We can forget about the Virgin Media group of fuzzy channels.

    That could be done now. If Saorview was configured as you say, there would be little change to the charges for transmission. Rte already pays twice as much as the others because they use HD, while the others pay for SD at the lowest bit rate. Up them all by the same rate (as long as it fits on two muxes) and the charges remain the same but PQ improves.

    Remember, the Oireachtas channel were prepared to pay Sky €250 k to hide it behind a pay wall, but would not put it onto Saorview. TG4, state subsidised, ha TG4 HD on Sky but not on Saorview. TV3 bailed out by the tax payer to the tune on €80 million refused to go on Saorview, and currently refuses to go on Saorsat, and refuses to go HD on Saorview.

    All it requires is a revamp of the charges, and minimum bandwidth/resolution, for Saorview.

    TV3 used to pay €3 million/year for ONE analogue channel from only the main transmitters that gave 80% coverage. They pay less than that for THREE channels.


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    #3885
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,554 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    That could be done now. If Saorview was configured as you say, there would be little change to the charges for transmission. Rte already pays twice as much as the others because they use HD, while the others pay for SD at the lowest bit rate. Up them all by the same rate (as long as it fits on two muxes) and the charges remain the same but PQ improves.

    Remember, the Oireachtas channel were prepared to pay Sky €250 k to hide it behind a pay wall, but would not put it onto Saorview. TG4, state subsidised, ha TG4 HD on Sky but not on Saorview. TV3 bailed out by the tax payer to the tune on €80 million refused to go on Saorview, and currently refuses to go on Saorsat, and refuses to go HD on Saorview.

    All it requires is a revamp of the charges, and minimum bandwidth/resolution, for Saorview.

    TV3 used to pay €3 million/year for ONE analogue channel from only the main transmitters that gave 80% coverage. They pay less than that for THREE channels.

    Presumably, NAMA only concerned itself with the debts and not the day-to-day running of the debtors. Therefore, in the eyes of the law, the write-off of TV3's debts was not a State subsidy (After all, it would be a violation of EU law if it was a subsidy!) Sure, nobody accused IN&M of being in receipt of a State subsidy just because its debts were written off.

    As for Saorsat, there'd be rights issues because of TV3 broadcasting so much ITV programming because of Northern Ireland being in the Saorsat footprint.


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    #3886
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    political analyst wrote: »
    Presumably, NAMA only concerned itself with the debts and not the day-to-day running of the debtors. Therefore, in the eyes of the law, the write-off of TV3's debts was not a State subsidy (After all, it would be a violation of EU law if it was a subsidy!) Sure, nobody accused IN&M of being in receipt of a State subsidy just because its debts were written off.

    As for Saorsat, there'd be rights issues because of TV3 broadcasting so much ITV programming because of Northern Ireland being in the Saorsat footprint.

    Saorview signal penetrate well into northern Ireland (at least 70%) so what is the problem with them being on Saorsat?


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    #3887
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    I'll get shot for saying this, but if Sky have 700k subscribers, Virgin 400k, eir Vision 60k and Vodafone TV 20k, ( figures are approximate), that's nearly 1.2m households with access to TV3 HD ( and yes, I know they won't all have the HD pack ), how many households are left in Saorview only land ?


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    #3888
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    galtee boy wrote: »
    I'll get shot for saying this, but if Sky have 700k subscribers, Virgin 400k, eir Vision 60k and Vodafone TV 20k, ( figures are approximate), that's nearly 1.2m households with access to TV3 HD ( and yes, I know they won't all have the HD pack ), how many households are left in Saorview only land ?

    If you add Freesat with access to TV3 HD ITV HD, there very few left.

    That said, TV3 should be obliged to go HD one way or another - change of tariff, change of T&C of Saorview, etc.


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    #3889
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    tv3 sd versus bbchd no contest really. tried watching it but as soon as the bbc came on the quality and commentry was 10 times better. i do wonder how many viewers like myself will tv3 loose due to no hd rugby on saorview


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    #3890
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,554 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    Saorview signal penetrate well into northern Ireland (at least 70%) so what is the problem with them being on Saorsat?

    Saorsat covers all of the island of Ireland - that's the problem. For instance, Champions League coverage on RTÉ2 is blocked on Saorsat.


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    #3891
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    channelsurfer2 wrote: »
    tv3 sd versus bbchd no contest really. tried watching it but as soon as the bbc came on the quality and commentry was 10 times better. i do wonder how many viewers like myself will tv3 loose due to no hd rugby on saorview
    If you actually have TV3 HD on satellite it’s better quality then BBC One HD, the BBC HD quality are piss poor.


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    #3892
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,519 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    channelsurfer2 wrote: »
    tv3 sd versus bbchd no contest really. tried watching it but as soon as the bbc came on the quality and commentry was 10 times better. i do wonder how many viewers like myself will tv3 loose due to no hd rugby on saorview

    Vote with your feet. If people are too dumb to switch over, then let them burn their eyes out watching what is a very poor picture, even by SD standards.
    TV3 are mean sh1tes.


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    #3893
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    irishfeen wrote: »
    If you actually have TV3 HD on satellite it’s better quality then BBC One HD, the BBC HD quality are piss poor.
    bbc hd very good on my fta box.


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    #3894
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Surely one of the biggest days in TV3’s history ... 6 Nations Rugby followed by homemade Irish content in the form of Ireland’s got Talent.

    I know they deserve a battering most of the time over HD on Saorview and other stuff but to be fair it’s a great day for the company. Their viewership today with the Irish game and the talent show will be massive.


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    #3895
    iseegirls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭iseegirls


    Also helped with such an amazing finale to the Ireland match. Well done to the Ireland rugby team. And good that TV3 went straight to analysis after the game. They could have easily gone for an ad break.

    TV3 will be hoping it goes down to the final day on St Patricks Day in Twickenham for some bumper ratings.


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    #3896
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    I watched the Ruby for the first 5 minutes on TV3 (saorview), it was awful, moved into sitting room and continued watching on BBC1 HD, it was amazing , this is what we're up against when we talk about picture quality. The analogue version of TV3 was much better than what we are getting currently on Saorview. I think saorview opperaters and the lot are letting the platform badly down.


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    #3897
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭deezell


    irishfeen wrote: »
    If you actually have TV3 HD on satellite it’s better quality then BBC One HD, the BBC HD quality are piss poor.

    That is utter nonsense.


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    #3898
    deezell
    Registered Users Posts: 6,738 ✭✭✭deezell


    Nobody I know watched the saorview TV3 version of the Match. To a man they watched BBC. For free. In full HD.


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    #3899
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    deezell wrote: »
    That is utter nonsense.
    BBC One HD is averaging at 4.6 Mb/s and TV3 HD is at 5.7 Mb/s on Astra 28.2E Satellite .... so no its not nonsense!


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    #3900
    Mickey Mike
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    irishfeen wrote: »
    BBC One HD is averaging at 4.6 Mb/s and TV3 HD is at 5.7 Mb/s on Astra 28.2E Satellite .... so no its not nonsense!

    BBC HD on astra is full HD (1920 by 1080p), next step up is UHD I can't imagine TV3 is better than that.


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    #3901
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Mickey Mike wrote: »
    BBC HD on astra is full HD (1920 by 1080p), next step up is UHD I can't imagine TV3 is better than that.
    Sky Sports UHD channels run at a bitrate of 30.6 Mb/s... the BBC HD channels have some of the lowest averaging bitrate of any channels on Astra 28.2.

    RTÉ One HD - 5.9
    RTÉ Two HD - 5.8
    BBC Two HD - 4.7


    The standard of HD channels on satellite has been deteriorating greatly as sky are squeezing more and more channels onto the same Multiplex. SD channels are gone even worse with the likes of Channel 4 SD only running at 2.6 Mb/s.


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