The Virgin Media Television thread

Fred Swanson

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iseegirls

Sam Russell wrote: »

...... Until 2016 is just 12 months - that only means one season.

If UTV go HD, then so must TV3 or lose the audience. Maybe UTV have the HD rights:), or there is some confusion.

The report says late 2016, so that would mean 2 years really from now. Very confusing, and odd that this is only being brought up now.

channelsurfer2

iseegirls wrote: »

The report says late 2016, so that would mean 2 years really from now. Very confusing, and odd that this is only being brought up now.

must admit I am stumped by that report this morning. Someone needs to check their contracts clearly as I thought all ITV studios output was gone from 1/1/15 to UTV.

Onthe3rdDay

If this story is true, (remember the source is the TV3 press office) UTV would have to had known about this before they bought the rights.

That would mean confusion in the Market but in the long term it would all favour UTV eventually.

Why did TV3 not buy exclusive rights to the Irish Market?

iseegirls

Odd that the soaps and the other tv shows seem to be in different packages though. I would have thought they'd all be bundled in together as one.

Onthe3rdDay

iseegirls wrote: »

Odd that the soaps and the other tv shows seem to be in different packages though. I would have thought they'd all be bundled in together as one.

If it's true it's a legacy issue. That's why there was so much talk on this board about Graham Norton and did TV3 have the rights. They probably purchased it when SO television were doing their own deals. ITV studios came along and bought the company. So from this point on all new contracts would be through ITV Studios but the old ones would still be valid. The other shows might be the same, deal done with the spin off but not with the main group.

However, it is very unusual not to have the exclusive rights to a show when you make this sort of purchase. TV3 were possibly taking a gamble to buy non-exclusive rights because who else in this market would buy it once TV3 had it?

iseegirls

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

TV3 were possibly taking a gamble to buy non-exclusive rights because who else in this market would buy it once TV3 had it?

Yep, I would assume RTE and TG4 would have no such exclusivity deal either with programme rights too. Plus it's maybe up the distributor whether they want to give out exclusivity rights for packages to channels.

Onthe3rdDay

iseegirls wrote: »

Yep, I would assume RTE and TG4 would have no such exclusivity deal either with programme rights too. Plus it's maybe up the distributor whether they want to give out exclusivity rights for packages to channels.

Your assumption is wrong I'm afraid. RTE and TG4 generally buy full rights to everything they show. It's normal practice that only one station has rights in a Market. (Not talking about syndication reruns here of course)

iseegirls

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Your assumption is wrong I'm afraid. RTE and TG4 generally buy full rights to everything they show. It's normal practice that only one station has rights in a Market. (Not talking about syndication reruns here of course)

generally = in most cases; usually.

So that means some shows then, and not all. Same for TV3 so, they have exclusivity deals for some shows like Downton Abbey, and not for others.

Onthe3rdDay

iseegirls wrote: »

generally = in most cases; usually.

So that means some shows then, and not all. Same for TV3 so, they have exclusivity deals for some shows like Downton Abbey, and not for others.

Okay, I can see your point, but I've never ever seen anywhere here or the UK this happening before. It's unheard of. When I say Generally I mean for Sports events, maybe the odd concert. 99 percent of Drama, Soaps, entertainment is tied down in exclusive contracts.

This is a huge mistake by TV3, A lot of their shows that could have been tied down haven't been or they're making mischief and they're talking about rerun rights. In the UK and the US if this happened whole departments would be fired.

Infoanon

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

This is a huge mistake by TV3, A lot of their shows that could have been tied down haven't been or they're making mischief and they're talking about rerun rights. In the UK and the US if this happened whole departments would be fired.[/qu

I assume it costs more for exclusivity, maybe TV3 only saw UTV as a potential buyer not as a potential rival.

One thing that is being perhaps underplayed is that a lot of management at TV3 have moved to UTVI, no replacements have been anounced afaik.

It will be interesting to see the valuation placed on TV3 in the next set of accounts, the loss of key programming and staff will trigger an impairment review.

In 2009 a similar review valued Setanta UK at nil and shortly afterwards the station collapsed.

irishmusicfeed

Is it possible that the shows currently on air with exception to the soaps will not air on UTV Ireland until 2016, this may explain why UTV are proposing showing re-runs of old ITV shows in its schedule upon launch.

Onthe3rdDay

irishmusicfeed wrote: »

Is it possible that the shows currently on air with exception to the soaps will not air on UTV Ireland until 2016, this may explain why UTV are proposing showing re-runs of old ITV shows in its schedule upon launch.

I find it highly unlikely that they would promote programmes that aren't going to go out on UTV Ireland until 2016 but would still be going out on TV3. Logically when making a presentation to Press and Advertisers you only promote the shows you actually have.

The question I would have for TV3 is, do they have new eps of those shows next year or is it possibly rerun rights. They could have repeat rights only for 2015.

The Article is actually very unclear. Are they first run rights?
It's says Until 2016, does that mean the 1st of January 2016 or 31st of December 2016. This by they way is not TV3's fault, it's just the poor journalism of Independent Newspapers.

irishmusicfeed

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I find it highly unlikely that they would promote programmes that aren't going to go out on UTV Ireland until 2016 but would still be going out on TV3. Logically when making a presentation to Press and Advertisers you only promote the shows you actually have.

The question I would have for TV3 is, do they have new eps of those shows next year or is it possibly rerun rights. They could have repeat rights only for 2015.

The Article is actually very unclear. Are they first run rights?
It's says Until 2016, does that mean the 1st of January 2016 or 31st of December 2016. This by they way is not TV3's fault, it's just the poor journalism of Independent Newspapers.

Well if I was the TV3 Group I would just cut all contracts with ITV at the stage and let their shows in limbo until UTV Ireland launches (yes I am aware UTVNI is available on UPC/Sky) and find some more worthy shows which deserve to be on TV3. I would change 3e as soon as possible to a youth orientated channel with a mix of music and youth orientated programming from around the world or ask the BAI to give it permission to change it into an arts/cultural channel or a female skewed channel (TV3 were supposed to launch 3Xpose channel) or get the contract from Irish Film Board to operate the Irish Film Channel (whenever that is supposed to happen). TV3 has a better future than 3e. 3e gets a revamp in November so all will be revealed.

Onthe3rdDay

irishmusicfeed wrote: »

Well if I was the TV3 Group I would just cut all contracts with ITV at the stage and let their shows in limbo until UTV Ireland launches (yes I am aware UTVNI is available on UPC/Sky) and find some more worthy shows which deserve to be on TV3. I would change 3e as soon as possible to a youth orientated channel with a mix of music and youth orientated programming from around the world or ask the BAI to give it permission to change it into an arts/cultural channel or a female skewed channel (TV3 were supposed to launch 3Xpose channel) or get the contract from Irish Film Board to operate the Irish Film Channel (whenever that is supposed to happen). TV3 has a better future than 3e. 3e gets a revamp in November so all will be revealed.

And some of those ideas aren't bad, but the big problem here is that the cupboard is empty. They appear to have very little decent material once you strip out the ITV shows. Their News Division a shadow of it's former self, I don't think they'd be able to do a proper bulletin in the evening at this stage without hiring a load more staff. Other Primetime home programmes vary from being good to being truly awful but there's not enough of them to keep a service going without constant repeats.

They have never shown any real arts/cutural Shows down through the years.(that Brendan Grace Special over and over perhaps) All they really have is 100's and 100's of hours of infomercial footage from Ireland AM and Xpose. If the film channel ever goes ahead there will be a public competition to see who runs it and I would think the only way TV3 would win the rights to run it is if they were the only bidder. Plus from now on RTE and UTV can offer an All Ireland Product. (RTE in the north on Freeview, cable and SKY) TV3 can only offer Republic of Ireland only.

irishmusicfeed

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

They appear to have very little decent material once you strip out the ITV shows.

ITV is not the be all or end all... there are plenty of other broadcasters to take programming from and I don't mean the UK.... broaden your horizons Ireland stop being so insular.

Onthe3rdDay

irishmusicfeed wrote: »

ITV is not the be all or end all... there are plenty of other broadcasters to take programming from and I don't mean the UK.... broaden your horizons Ireland stop being so insular.

This has nothing to do with ITV being the be all and end all... It's TV3's fault that they didn't broaden their Horizons. I have been going on for years saying here and in the real world that there was plenty that TV3 could buy if they found US and UK markets closed to them or even too pricey. Loads of decent stuff from Australia, New Zealand, Canada. Don't forget brilliant stuff from Denmark and Sweden.

They have had nine months to sort this out and it only appears to be getting worse. Week after week this summer of ITV repeats, and then they go and repeat ITV shows again, and again.

Look at TG4, they have had True Blood, Breaking Bad, The Vampire Dairies, Danish and Swedish top Drama. Lots of other shows that people talk about. What was stopping TV3 over the last few years doing the same. TG4 have almost no money to do that sort of thing but still manage to do so.

When any criticism of TV3 is made, the claim is thrown back that it's us and not them that's the problem. That's not how the real world works.

The issue here is that TV3 have nothing but ITV programmes. Now there's going they've very little to offer the audience (just look at the ratings over the last few year)
You offered a solution that they drop all ITV programmes but if they do that they have basically nothing.

Ireland isn't insular, TV3 is!

irishmusicfeed

Through real investment and interest TV3 could do something possible like this, oh look no ITV programming....

---

Monday -
06:00 – Morning Mix
Morning music video show featuring the best in Irish and international music

7:00 – Ireland:AM
News, Current Affairs, Entertainment, Weather

09:00 – Ireland Today
All the non-news programming from Ireland AM goes here i.e. cooking, interviews, celebrities, fashion etc.

11:30 – The Debate (rebrand of Midday)
A rebrand of Midday this time the show is in front of a live studio audience from the Sony HD studio.

12:30 3News
Latest news from around the world and nationally hosted by Siobhan Bastible.

13:00 The Ellen Show

14:00 Come Dine With Me Ireland

15:00 Mellissa & Joey
US Comedy from CBS Family

15:30 Late Lunch Live

16:30 Judge Judy

17:00 Judge Judy

17:30 3News @ 5.30
Charlotte Fitzpatrick brings the nation a new look 3News with more in-depth coverage something along the lines of Channel 4 news from the UK.

18:00 Xpose
Latest showbiz gossip in Ireland and around the world.

19:00 The Afternoon Show
Hosted by Cybill. The show focuses on in-studio guests, music and news stories from across the country.

19:30 Red Rock
TV3’s new Irish based soap.

20:00 The Big Bang Theory
US Comedy

20:30 Futurama
US Animated Comedy

21:00 House of Cards
Purchase Irish TV rights from Netflix. House of Cards airs on Showcase in Australia and Fox in Italy.

22:00 Tangle
Australia Drama Series

23:00 Tonight with Vincent Browne
Current Affairs show with Vincent Browne.

00:00 Conan
US chat show with comedy and music.

---

TUESDAY -
06:00 – Morning Mix
Morning music video show featuring the best in Irish and international music

7:00 – Ireland:AM
News, Current Affairs, Entertainment, Weather

09:00 – Ireland Today
All the non-news programming from Ireland AM goes here i.e. cooking, interviews, celebrities, fashion etc.

11:30 – The Debate (rebrand of Midday)
A rebrand of Midday this time the show is in front of a live studio audience from the Sony HD studio.

12:30 3News
Latest news from around the world and nationally hosted by Siobhan Bastible.

13:00 The Ellen Show

14:00 About A Boy
US Comedy Series

14:30 US Comedy Show

15:00 Mellissa & Joey
US Comedy from CBS Family

15:30 Late Lunch Live

16:30 Judge Judy

17:00 Judge Judy

17:30 3News @ 5.30
Charlotte Fitzpatrick brings the nation a new look 3News with more in-depth coverage something along the lines of Channel 4 news from the UK.

18:00 Xpose
Latest showbiz gossip in Ireland and around the world.

19:00 The Afternoon Show
Hosted by Cybill. The show focuses on in-studio guests, music and news stories from across the country.

19:30 The Movie Show
A weekly movie review show.

20:00 The Code
ABC 1 Australia Drama Series

21:00 Orange Is The New Black
Purchase Irish TV rights from Netflix. Currently airs on Showcase in Australia and Fox in Italy.

22:00 The Offspring
Australia Drama Series from Network 10 currently running for 5 seasons.

23:00 Tonight with Vincent Browne
Current Affairs show with Vincent Browne.

00:00 Conan
US chat show with comedy and music.

---

Just some ideas not always possible... but TV3 do not need ITV.

icdg

They were never very imaginative before ITV came along! To remind people what the original TV3 were like, it was mostly a mixture of US shows and Channel 5 and had less Irish programmes (if a lot more news) than they do now.

Onthe3rdDay

irishmusicfeed wrote: »

T

Just some ideas not always possible... but TV3 do not need ITV.

Okay, Not too bad and the 8-11 section could build viewers given time, but outside of the rights issues, (I don't know how willing Netfilx would be to sell their biggest attractions to a rival in the same market) TV3 would need to hire a lot more staff and also need to actually go out and buy some shows. Any shows they have shown from Australia seem to be Customs/Cops/Nasty side of life bargain bin stuff.

What's probably going to happen is that they will just keep showing the ITV shows they've left (if that's possible) with their new irish productions sprinkled around them. They might do it differently, but the last 5 or 6 years points us in a different direction.

irishmusicfeed

Quote: Okay, Not too bad and the 8-11 section could build viewers given time, but outside of the rights issues, (I don't know how willing Netfilx would be to sell their biggest attractions to a rival in the same market) TV3 would need to hire a lot more staff and also need to actually go out and buy some shows. Any shows they have shown from Australia seem to be Customs/Cops/Nasty side of life bargain bin stuff. What's probably going to happen is that they will just keep showing the ITV shows they've left (if that's possible) with their new irish productions sprinkled around them. They might do it differently, but the last 5 or 6 years points us in a different direction.

Netflix has signed TV distribution deals with many broadcasters across Europe for TV broadcasting rights... They can only air on the channels after debuting on Netflix usually 4 to 8 weeks after upload on Netflix.

Australian dramas are not all about cops, The Offspring and Tangle are about different families..... its just a suggestion... plenty of other shows out there... many cool shows from Nordic, French and German channels too... could possibly be shown late at night around 23:00 just move Vincent Browne to 22:00 in direct competition with UTV's Ireland LIve at 10 or move Vincent Browne to 21:30.

New Zealand has one or two good dramas which are skewed towards a more female audience. Not everyone watches soaps and TV3 can provide an alternative to both men and women who do not enjoy watching TV shows which are based around depressed british people stuck in pubs.

Onthe3rdDay

irishmusicfeed wrote: »

Netflix has signed TV distribution deals with many broadcasters across Europe for TV broadcasting rights... They can only air on the channels after debuting on Netflix usually 4 to 8 weeks after upload on Netflix.

Yes but generally In Markets where Netflix is actually operating it doesn't do deals with broadcasters. Netflix is only available in Ireland, UK, Scandinavia and Holland. It's still the old way of doing things where Netflix has done deals (most of Europe)
Having said that say if TV3 did do a deal, they'd have to pay a lot of money for that content. TV3 don't pay a lot of money for anything. That's why they're in such trouble at this stage.

dublinman1990

I remember seeing David McRedmond from a RTE interview a few months ago about the prospect of UTV Ireland coming into the Irish TV Market.

He was saying that buying the rights for programmes from the ITV catalouge was very expensive for the station. He said TV3 would a save lot of money in prioritising the new ventures like Red Rock and supposed other new shows. The question I'm asking here is how much of that money is a real saving to TV3 if they are to stop acquiring a lot of these new rights from that same catalouge? I would think that buying the same programmes on repeat rights would be cheaper for TV3, would that not the case for them at all.

Also, when I was looking through how much content was taken from TV3 being migrated to UTV Ireland last night. It got me thinking that if TV3 were to survive in this climate, I still think they have a near healthy amount of programmes to keep ticking them over until they have to renew broadcast deals with their foreign shows like Judge Judy and Ellen De Generes or with a few of their acquired US dramas and Films.

Their Irish output is good to a degree even though a lot of it is not decent for a lot of viewers most of the time. Their Irish shows would consist of Midday, Xpose, Vincent Browne, Ireland AM, Late Lunch Live, Crossfire, The Lie and they could show repeats of a few Keith Barry shows, Tallafornia and The Apprentice and their documentaries into the mix.

They still have rights to the Champions League and Europa League and rights to Ireland's matches from the Rugby World Cup next year alongside 3e.

I do agree that TV3 have a future, however, how much of that future will be there to last in the long term.

Onthe3rdDay

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I remember seeing David McRedmond from a RTE interview a few months ago about the prospect of UTV Ireland coming into the Irish TV Market.

He was saying that buying the rights for programmes from the ITV catalouge was very expensive for the station. He said TV3 would a save lot of money in prioritising the new ventures like Red Rock and supposed other new shows. The question I'm asking here is how much of that money is a real saving to TV3 if they are to stop acquiring a lot of these new rights from that same catalouge? I would think that buying the same programmes on repeat rights would be cheaper for TV3, would that not the case for them at all.

Also, when I was looking through how much content was taken from TV3 being migrated to UTV Ireland last night. It got me thinking that if TV3 were to survive in this climate, I still think they have a near healthy amount of programmes to keep ticking them over until they have to renew broadcast deals with their foreign shows like Judge Judy and Ellen De Generes or with a few of their acquired US dramas and Films.

Their Irish output is good to a degree even though a lot of it is not decent for a lot of viewers most of the time. Their Irish shows would consist of Midday, Xpose, Vincent Browne, Ireland AM, Late Lunch Live, Crossfire, The Lie and they could show repeats of a few Keith Barry shows, Tallafornia and The Apprentice and their documentaries into the mix.

They still have rights to the Champions League and Europa League and rights to Ireland's matches from the Rugby World Cup next year.

I do agree that TV3 have a future, however, how much of that future will be there to last in the long term.

As much as I complain about TV3 and it's daytime programmes, from a cost perspective I can see how they work. They're covering themselves when it comes to Irish Output and what they do make would cover the bills somewhat. The real problem is that they are then depending on Making their Money in Primetime and at the Weekends. If you strip away the viewers from those times you have real problems and they pile on fairly quickly. (within 6 to 12 months)

All their Primetime programmes seem to depend on ITV lead ins. When there's no ITV lead in their viewing figures are very poor. There are few exceptions to this, the one obvious one is tonight. Vincent does well and his audience is different to all the rest of the schedule but he's on at a time when Advertisers are not as interested.

If you stripped RTE TWO of it's sport it would be in terrible trouble, I don't know if it would survive if it were a commercial operation.

It's exactly the same scenario for TV3 put away it's big earners and it's last chance saloon. They could pull it out of the fire but unlike RTE TWO they'll only get one chance.

Onthe3rdDay

Just to point out it's another great TV3 weekend, Between 9.00am and Midnight (the times 95% of the population are watching) over the 2 days there will be a total of...35 minutes of Irish production going out...which is a repeat of their 24 Hours to Kill show. The rest of the time they have 3 films, and ITV Game Show/Talent Show/Soaps, which are almost all repeats of repeats.

Outside of the primetime hours they're mostly showing Best of Ireland AM and Xpose.

I do know it's Summer but I think it's obvious why most people doubt the abilities of TV3 to run a TV station. Bizarrely the only hour of American TV Drama that they're showing is Hart of Dixie at 5.50am on a Saturday Morning, and that appears to be first run! (but I might be mistaken.)

Late Correction to be fair...I just saw that they do have a repeat of a Documentry on Sunday at 1.40...Back to School.

Cork_chick_94

I really can't see this Red rock soap taking off. I think instead they should have tried a teen/young adult soap airing at 5 or 7pm

Sam Russell

Cork_chick_94 wrote: »

I really can't see this Red rock soap taking off. I think instead they should have tried a teen/young adult soap airing at 5 or 7pm

Maybe it is. It is based around a cop shop.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe it is. It is based around a cop shop.

I'd say it will have a wide variety of age groups rather than a teen soap. There's a suggestion that unlike most soaps the 2 episodes will act as 1 single story, with slight story arcs through out.

Onthe3rdDay

Elmo wrote: »

I'd say it will have a wide variety of age groups rather than a teen soap. There's a suggestion that unlike most soaps the 2 episodes will act as 1 single story, with slight story arcs through out.

So it's going to be less like Coronation Street and More like Doctors? Soapwise that's a real Daytime soap strategy. It will mean it's a lot easier to miss episodes. That's the thing about say Coronation Street. There are plenty of times when they show 2 eps a night that the first and Second show have almost the same audience, but the show in between has only half. People will come back if the storyline is developing. On the other hand you can easily miss a week or two the Doctors type series and be back up to speed in a few minutes.

channelsurfer2

2 articles today in Indo and Times on TV3. Times says TV3 HD TV3 +1 and 3E(possibly part pay tv for 3E - what is worth paying for on it?) are in negotiations to launch on UPC and Sky next year. No mention of saorview at all so no RWC 2015 in HD on saorview by the sound of it.

Indo article is a beauty piece with David McRedmond putting a brave face on things and saying things are really great next year with all our homegrown programmes. Link to indo article below.

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/keep-calm-and-corrie-on-its-man-vs-machine-at-tv3-30531378.html