The Virgin Media Television thread

irishfeen

I wonder could we see TV3/3e changed to UPC 1 and 2 .. It would be a perfect way to semi advertise on the sky platform and it would retain a very well known existing brand.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

icdg

Merged. I don't think there'll be any change, because TV3 is an established brand, and it seems UPC is on the way out.

irishfeen

icdg wrote: »

Merged. I don't think there'll be any change, because TV3 is an established brand, and it seems UPC is on the way out.

What is the story with Virgin and UPC? will UPC become "Virgin"? I actually think re-naming TV3/3e "UPC 1/2" or "Virgin 1/2" (whatever the cable platform is called) could work very well... TV3 have a poor name in Irish broadcasting - prime position on all EPG's would mean the new stations would have maximum exposure.

"Sky 1, Sports, Movies etc." sound very good, I think UPC might be planning to go down a similar route with a few channels.

lertsnim

TV3 as a brand name is in every home of the country with a television. They would be incredibly foolish to change it.

Elmo

lertsnim wrote: »

TV3 as a brand name is in every home of the country with a television. They would be incredibly foolish to change it.

Also most likely the regulators will ask that both business be kept at arms length. And should UPC Ireland wish to sell TV3 at a later date.

I think the name TV3 is well known but the branding of the last ten or so years is not distinctive.

irishfeen

lertsnim wrote: »

TV3 as a brand name is in every home of the country with a television. They would be incredibly foolish to change it.

Problem being though almost nobody is watching it at prime time anymore .. They need to go down a new route and be distinctive from the rest. Almost everyone in the country knows the UPC brand too so it's not like it would be a major risk - you would have to think UPC has plans for the two channels, attracting new subscribers to the UPC platform will surely be near the top of that list.

Question is - how are they going to do that with TV3 and 3e?

gordongekko

irishfeen wrote: »

Problem being though almost nobody is watching it at prime time anymore .. They need to go down a new route and be distinctive from the rest. Almost everyone in the country knows the UPC brand too so it's not like it would be a major risk - you would have to think UPC has plans for the two channels, attracting new subscribers to the UPC platform will surely be near the top of that list.

Question is - how are they going to do that with TV3 and 3e?

Is the upc brand not a lot more toxic than tv3?

lertsnim

irishfeen wrote: »

Problem being though almost nobody is watching it at prime time anymore .. They need to go down a new route and be distinctive from the rest. Almost everyone in the country knows the UPC brand too so it's not like it would be a major risk - you would have to think UPC has plans for the two channels, attracting new subscribers to the UPC platform will surely be near the top of that list.

Question is - how are they going to do that with TV3 and 3e?

The reason nobody is watching it is because they have nothing to show. It has nothing to do with being called TV3.

UPC isn't known by everyone. There are still people in the cities that call it Cablelink and NTL. Outside of the cities nobody cares a bit about UPC. It is only a series of annoying adverts of tv for them.

Of course UPC will have plans for the channels and IMO that is to build on content which will then increase viewers.

irishfeen

gordongekko wrote: »

Is the upc brand not a lot more toxic than tv3?

Wouldn't say so at all .. Isn't UPC considered the best for broadband among all providers in city areas??

irishfeen

lertsnim wrote: »

The reason nobody is watching it is because they have nothing to show. It has nothing to do with being called TV3.

UPC isn't known by everyone. There are still people in the cities that call it Cablelink and NTL. Outside of the cities nobody cares a bit about UPC. It is only a series of annoying adverts of tv for them.

Of course UPC will have plans for the channels and IMO that is to build on content which will then increase viewers.

But how does that help the UPC brand?? BT in the UK are showing exactly what all these providers are trying to achieve - customers buying Quad deals - phone, Broadband, television and mobile.

That's where the big mula is to be made! - how can the do this with TV3/3e? You can't take them off sky because a vast audience would be lost, they can't go subscription because they would lose their PBS EPG slots.

How are they going to do it?

An Ciarraioch

irishfeen wrote: »

But how does that help the UPC brand?? BT in the UK are showing exactly what all these providers are trying to achieve - customers buying Quad deals - phone, Broadband, television and mobile.

That's where the big mula is to be made! - how can the do this with TV3/3e? You can't take them off sky because a vast audience would be lost, they can't go subscription because they would lose their PBS EPG slots.

How are they going to do it?

The best strategy would be to win back FTA sports rights when they come up for review - get a GAA package off RTE/Sky or failing that, some rugby and/or soccer coverage. The second component would be to hoover up quality US dramas, apparently Malone is a part-owner of Lionsgate, who made Mad Men, amongst other programmes.

ftakeith

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The best strategy would be to win back FTA sports rights when they come up for review - get a GAA package off RTE/Sky or failing that, some rugby and/or soccer coverage. The second component would be to hoover up quality US dramas, apparently Malone is a part-owner of Lionsgate, who made Mad Men, amongst other programmes.

Pro-12 rights from TG4

GAA National league live games from TG4/setanta

3pm saturday live eng prem league & Eng Prem highlights

3e turned into olympic summer tv channels

gordongekko

irishfeen wrote: »

Wouldn't say so at all .. Isn't UPC considered the best for broadband among all providers in city areas??

Not for tv or customer service

icdg

irishfeen wrote: »

What is the story with Virgin and UPC? will UPC become "Virgin"?.

LibertyGlobal, UPC's parent company, acquired Virgin Media in 2013. Just before Chistmas, Liberty transferred ownership of UPC Ireland from UPC Broadband to Virgin Media. At that point, the UPC Ireland chief executive joined Virgin Media's senior management team. Two weeks ago, there was a report in the Sunday Times saying that there were very early stage plans for UPC Ireland to rebrand as Virgin Media.

It is worth noting that Virgin Media do not own their own brand name - they licence it for not insubstantial cost from Richard Branson.

Harry Palmr

icdg wrote: »

It is worth noting that Virgin Media do not own their own brand name - they licence it for not insubstantial cost from Richard Branson.

He really does cover all the angles!

iseegirls

Could UPC dry to drown UTVi and shift them further down the EPG, or replace it completely with UTVNI? Or is there such rules in place to prevent that from happening?

Elmo

iseegirls wrote: »

Could UPC dry to drown UTVi and shift them further down the EPG, or replace it completely with UTVNI? Or is there such rules in place to prevent that from happening?

The regulators will have to insist that UPC's EPG is regulated fairly.

It will be interesting to see what conditions are attached to this sale.

For example its highly unlikely that TV3 will be able to launch new services bar 3e+1. The conditions should insist that any TV3 or 3e additional services should be made available on Saorview and Sky (e.g. TV3HD, TV3 +1, 3eHD, 3e+1). That UPC must provide for services for Irish players and that RTÉ Digital Aertel is made available on UPC.

Keeping the brands separate no tie ins between UPC and TV3.

I assume that the BAI regulate UPC's EPG but I don't think the BAI agree.

It also means that TV3 can't be seen as the little guys anymore.

Also fairly certain that Dry Drowning is just suffocation

lertsnim

iseegirls wrote: »

Could UPC dry to drown UTVi and shift them further down the EPG, or replace it completely with UTVNI?

Why would UPC want UTV NI on their EPG competing with TV3 and 3e on shows like X Factor. I doubt you will ever see it again on UPC.

Sam Russell

Does any of the €80m go back to the State as I thought if TV3 was sold there would be a claw back?

iseegirls

lertsnim wrote: »

Why would UPC want UTV NI on their EPG competing with TV3 and 3e on shows like X Factor. I doubt you will ever see it again on UPC.

See I was thinking that if they removed/moved down UTVi, and then that meant UTVi would suffer dwindling ratings and perhaps would close down. Then TV3 could make a move for the soaps again.
But as you said - UPC don't have to provide UTVni at all then - meaning TV3 could really take advantage.

I just think there would be a backlash though if they completely removed UTVi from their service. However, if they replaced it with UTVni - then viewers would possibly be happier - as UTVi's reputation on UPC is very low. It's a tricky one. They could possibly block any programming on UTVni like X Factor when TV3 are showing them.

deanh

Don't forget that UTVI are the exclusive broadcaster of most ITV programming in Ireland. It may not be legally possible to rebroadcast UTVNI. That is why, I believe, that UTV said removing UTVNI from 110 was the ' correct decision'.

Elmo

deanh wrote: »

Don't forget that UTVI are the exclusive broadcaster of most ITV programming in Ireland. It may not be legally possible to rebroadcast UTVNI. That is why, I believe, that UTV said removing UTVNI from 110 was the ' correct decision'.

Also if you remove all TV3 programming you effectively have UTVI

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does any of the €80m go back to the State as I thought if TV3 was sold there would be a claw back?

According to their 2012 accounts the €81.1m facility B (standstill) loan was only repayable under certain conditions as agreed by the group, shareholders and lenders.

In the 2013 accounts the only mention of it comes under the debt acquired from IBRC where the Senior A facility, facility B loan and the amounts outstanding under the revolving credit and guarantee facility which realised a gain of €8.9m for the group. The senior A loans amounted to almost €53m at the end of 2012.

The debt purchase was financed by 2 loans amounting to €44m.

With my very limited knowledge of finance, the gain appears to have come from the A loans and the other credit and guarantee facility (€53m minus €44m = €8.9m approx.) with the €81.1m facility B loan written off.

At the end of 2013 the total debt of TV3 stood at €76m which included bank and intercompany loans. We won't know until later this year how this stands at the end of 2014. Does the €80m purchase price cover the existing debt?

Elmo

Thanks @TheCush

I was think about this, I assume that TV3 is a separate company to DH and that the loans are financed by TV3's turnover. I don't see this changing with Liberty Global, will TV3's holding company Tullamore Beta Ltd remain?

Also the 7m extra depending on criteria to DH from LG sounds like the loan criteria.

Of the original loan how much was written off?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

I was think about this, I assume that TV3 is a separate company to DH and that the loans are financed by TV3's turnover. I don't see this changing with Liberty Global, will TV3's holding company Tullamore Beta Ltd remain?

There are companies within companies, you have DHC Luxembourg IV S.a.r.l, then there's Tullamore Omega Ltd which appears to be the Irish parent company. There's also Tullamore Alpha, Tullamore Beta, Tullamore Finco, TV3 Ltd and a few more. Difficult to know who owns who.

Elmo wrote: »

Of the original loan how much was written off?

Which loan? The €81.1m B loan appears to be completely gone. The other loans and credit facilities were purchased at a discount of €8.9m.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

There are companies within companies, you have DHC Luxembourg IV S.a.r.l, then there's Tullamore Omega Ltd which appears to be the Irish parent company. There's also Tullamore Alpha, Tullamore Beta, Tullamore Finco, TV3 Ltd and a few more. Difficult to know who owns who.

Interesting to see if LG will keep these shell companies. TV3 have RED F.M. as a trading name.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

At the end of 2013 the total debt of TV3 stood at €76m which included bank and intercompany loans. We won't know until later this year how this stands at the end of 2014. Does the €80m purchase price cover the existing debt?

From today's Sunday Indo Doughty Hanson will get less than half of TV3's €87m sale price

UPC Ireland, a subsidiary of John Malone's Liberty Global, will take over 100pc of TV3's share capital as well as a debt pile that the Sunday Independent understands is approximately €45m.
...
TV3's debt is owed to Ulster Bank and UK-headquartered Bluebay Asset Management, the Sunday Independent understands. A spokeswoman for Liberty said the deal involves the debt being "paid down on approval" - indicating that if the deal clears regulatory hurdles, Liberty will own the station debt-free.

irishfeen

If Liberty/UPC buy TV3 debt free for €87m its an incredible bit of business especially when we see UTV struggle so badly to get things going in any shape or form...

- Two prime EPG slots on all platforms (sky, UPC & eVision)
- Two channels with a Public Service Broadcaster status which opens up all A-listed Sports rights/BAI funding to them.
- Currently the second most watched channel in Ireland.
- New €5m 500m2 HD Studio
- Existing news/current affairs output team.
- Exclusive rights to 2015 Rugby World Cup.
- 3 years of Champions League rights/FA Cup final.
- FremantleMedia deal to show Xfactor, Britain's got Talent, Downton Abbey etc.
- Catch-up player on UPC and Sky.

Harry Palmr

Well hopefully this means we'll get HD on saorview sooner rather than later, or is there already movement on that?