The Virgin Media Television thread

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Elmo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/tv3-losses-double-despite-rugby-world-cup-revenue-35243639.html



what a pointless channel right!

I wouln'd go as far as to say it's a pointless channel they they do try and produce some home content which in turn is good for the independent company's. Whether we like the home produced content they broadcast is another story. The fact that TV3 HD are only broadcasting behind a paywall beggers belief that they don't realise the amount of potential viewers they could have if they went HD on Saorview. If they launch a HD version on Saorview and with the return of the soaps profits could soar.

retro:electro

Anyone else think that Ray Foley and Muireann are totally getting it on on the sly?

icdg

Take it to After Hours please

Elmo

From what I can gather

Turnover in 2015 was 55.85m
while in 2014 it was 55.9m

but the article says

The directors state that "although the decrease was partially mitigated by cost savings delivered from the loss of the ITV content, the company experienced a reduction in profitability in the year".

Am I calculating the turnover incorrectly Loss + Revenue.

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Elmo wrote: »

From what I can gather

Turnover in 2015 was 55.85m
while in 2014 it was 55.9m

but the article says

Am I calculating the turnover incorrectly Loss + Revenue.

No you are spot on TV3 must have set a turnover target for 2015 which obviously now was not reached going by the figures you posted. The reason for the losses Can't just be down to a slump in the advertising market and the loss of ITV content I know it was a huge loss and did cost them to loose revenue but the whole structure around the way the station is run has to be questioned. For me it comes back to targeting a particular audience for 3e buy in the content that will attract that audience which in turn should attract more advertising revenue. Now that they have the ITV Studios content look at a way to maximise the potential it has to increase advertising and turnover. And finally broadcast TV3,3E and UTVI or whatever they intend to call it in HD and on Saorview. Otherwise they will fall way behind other major broadcasters who are using tne latest technologies like Ultra HD to attract revenue.

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Elmo wrote: »

From what I can gather

Turnover in 2015 was 55.85m
while in 2014 it was 55.9m

but the article says

Am I calculating the turnover incorrectly Loss + Revenue.

No you are spot on TV3 must have set a turnover target for 2015 which obviously now was not reached going by the figures you posted. The reason for the losses Can't just be down to a slump in the advertising market and the loss of ITV content I know it was a huge loss and did cost them to loose revenue but the whole structure around the way the station is run has to be questioned. For me it comes back to targeting a particular audience for 3e buy in the content that will attract that audience which in turn should attract more advertising revenue. Now that they have the ITV Studios content look at a way to maximise the potential it has to increase advertising and turnover.

icdg

galtee boy wrote: »

What's the story with ITV News at 10 on Friday Dec 2nd ? It's listed in the RTÉ Guide and the TV Now magazine also. Does anyone know if it's a mistake or is it listed for the following week also ?

Must be a mistake, Sky EPG is showing Ireland Live in that slot.

political analyst

deezell wrote: »

It should be taken off them. They've abused it in relation to bidding for Irish terrestrial rights. They have the six nations, and are broadcasting it encrypted on HD on Subscription Sky TV HD package. How did that happen? A loophole in the licence allows them to satisfy their terrestial requirement by broadcasting a blurry sub SD image on terrestrial TV, despite having being government aided for the HD equipment in their studios. The licence needs to be re-visited. There is no chance of them peddling such a national treasure as our rugby coverage to Sky is they could not prevent free to air HD Terrestrial broadcast. The HD terrestrial broadcast rights should be sold on a FTA basis, let TV3 bid for the UK HD rights on Sky HD if they wish. Fortunatley the matches will still be FTA on UK National broadcast in HD, albeit without Irish commentary. It is not a good trend.

The licence was issued long before digital terrestrial TV came to Ireland. I'm not sure the licence could be changed retrospectively.

What evidence is there that the government aided TV3's HD equipment?

The Cush

political analyst wrote: »

The licence was issued long before digital terrestrial TV came to Ireland. I'm not sure the licence could be changed retrospectively.

What evidence is there that the government aided TV3's HD equipment?

Maybe referring to the €81m Anglo Irish loan to build the HD Studio which was eventually written off/taken over by NAMA.

political analyst

The Cush wrote: »

Maybe referring to the €81m Anglo Irish loan to build the HD Studio which was eventually written off/taken over by NAMA.

Wasn't the debt owed by TV3's previous owner, Doughty Hanson, not TV3 Ltd per se?

The Cush

political analyst wrote: »

Wasn't the debt owed by TV3's previous owner, Doughty Hanson, not TV3 Ltd per se?

It was TV3 debt, in addition Doughty Hanson pumped lots of its own money into the company over 10 years or so. It's all there in the accounts, see Tullamore Beta, Tullamore Alpha etc. on the CRO website.

political analyst

The Cush wrote: »

It was TV3 debt, in addition Doughty Hanson pumped lots of its own money into the company over 10 years or so. It's all there in the accounts, see Tullamore Beta, Tullamore Alpha etc. on the CRO website.

According to this article from 6 years ago, Doughty Hanson established Tullamore Beta to run TV3.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/losses-widen-for-tv3-owners-135859.html

Therefore, the writing-off of the debt is nothing to do with TV3's running costs and thus nothing to do with TV3's use of HD equipment.

The Cush

political analyst wrote: »

According to this article from 6 years ago, Doughty Hanson established Tullamore Beta to run TV3.

Tullamore Beta was Doughty Hanson's holding company for all its TV3 holdings, have a look at their 2013 accounts for loan write-off, loan buy back plus turnover and other financials for that year. Lots of other holding companies with holding companies, it'll make your head spin.

Tullamore Beta's 2013 accounts included these companies
KISH MEDIA LIMITED
CHANNEL 6 BROADCASTING LIMITED
TVTHREE ENTERPRISES LIMITED
TULLAMORE ALPHA LIMITED
TV3 TELEVISION NETWORK LIMITED
TVTHREE SALES LIMITED
TULLAMORE FINCO LIMITED
TULLAMORE BETA LIMITED

political analyst

The Cush wrote: »

Tullamore Beta was Doughty Hanson's holding company for all its TV3 holdings, have a look at their 2013 accounts for loan write-off, loan buy back plus turnover and other financials for that year. Lots of other holding companies with holding companies, it'll make your head spin.

Tullamore Beta's 2013 accounts included these companies
KISH MEDIA LIMITED
CHANNEL 6 BROADCASTING LIMITED
TVTHREE ENTERPRISES LIMITED
TULLAMORE ALPHA LIMITED
TV3 TELEVISION NETWORK LIMITED
TVTHREE SALES LIMITED
TULLAMORE FINCO LIMITED
TULLAMORE BETA LIMITED

TV3 Ltd was a subsidiary of Tullamore Beta, which was subsidiary of Doughty Hanson, but, technically, TV3 Ltd was still legally separate and thus not a debtor. Therefore, the cost of TV3's HD equipment is nothing to do with the debt.

The Cush

political analyst wrote: »

TV3 Ltd was a subsidiary of Tullamore Beta, which was subsidiary of Doughty Hanson, but, technically, TV3 Ltd was still legally separate and thus not a debtor. Therefore, the cost of TV3's HD equipment is nothing to do with the debt.

Have a look at the accounts, same for all companies.

political analyst

The Cush wrote: »

Have a look at the accounts, same for all companies.

Yeah, alright. Point taken.

However, the write-off of the debt and the use by TV3 of HD equipment are separate from each other. Therefore, there was no State aid to TV3 for HD equipment.

TV3 gets a very small part of the licence fee via Sound & Vision for Red Rock and other programmes but the amount of licence fee money that TG4 gets is much higher but it hasn't put its HD channel on Saorview. After all, TG4 carries greater PSB responsibility than TV3 does.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

Yeah, alright. Point taken.

However, the write-off of the debt and the use by TV3 of HD equipment are separate from each other. Therefore, there was no State aid to TV3 for HD equipment.

TV3 gets a very small part of the licence fee via Sound & Vision for Red Rock and other programmes but the amount of licence fee money that TG4 gets is much higher but it hasn't put its HD channel on Saorview. After all, TG4 carries greater PSB responsibility than TV3 does.

TG4HD should be as it got a grant on top of their normal income in 2011 for HD equipment.

TV3HD would not increase audiences but they did receive state aid when they restructured and they are supposed to be the national commercial broadcaster.

galtee boy

Elmo wrote: »

TG4HD should be as it got a grant on top of their normal income in 2011 for HD equipment.

TV3HD would not increase audiences but they did receive state aid when they restructured and they are supposed to be the national commercial broadcaster.

I disagree that TV3 HD on Saorview wouldn't increase audiences and indeed UTVI HD, now that it's owned by TV3/Virgin. In our house, all ITV programming that is available on these channels, is watched using ITV HD via Freesat and surely we're not the only ones doing this. We would use Saorview more if they were available in HD on it. But I can't see it happening anytime soon, the broadcasters see pay tv platforms as the priority and Saorview as some kind of poor mans system that nobody really uses only for kitchen and maybe bedroom TVs.

deezell

galtee boy wrote: »

I disagree that TV3 HD on Saorview wouldn't increase audiences and indeed UTVI HD, now that it's owned by TV3/Virgin. In our house, all ITV programming that is available on these channels, is watched using ITV HD via Freesat and surely we're not the only ones doing this. We would use Saorview more if they were available in HD on it. But I can't see it happening anytime soon, the broadcasters see pay tv platforms as the priority and Saorview as some kind of poor mans system that nobody really uses only for kitchen and maybe bedroom TVs.

I agree. If RTENL met TV3 halfway and charged a nominal increase for a HD terrestrial channel, say based on viewer numbers increase then there would be pressure on them to accept. It would interesting to see what would happen if they were offered an HD channell for the same rate. Would they squeeze the quality in order to maintain the subscription lever of HD on Sky?. I'm certain it would increase terrestrial viewers.

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

TG4HD should be as it got a grant on top of their normal income in 2011 for HD equipment.

TV3HD would not increase audiences but they did receive state aid when they restructured and they are supposed to be the national commercial broadcaster.

Presumably, the HD equipment was bought with TV3's own money after the debt was written off. Therefore, legally, the HD equipment wasn't state-aided.

Elmo

political analyst wrote: »

Presumably, the HD equipment was bought with TV3's own money after the debt was written off. Therefore, legally, the HD equipment wasn't state-aided.

I agree but TV3 like many companies have had some type of bail out.

Neither RTÉ One or 2 have seen any increase in audience since going HD.

The fact that RTÉ have 2 HD channels has brought the price of SD channels down, the addition of Oireactas TV will also see each channel decrease as would the addition of TG4HD.

It's up to ComReg to meet 2RN half way on this issue.

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Elmo wrote: »

I agree but TV3 like many companies have had some type of bail out.

Neither RTÉ One or 2 have seen any increase in audience since going HD.

The fact that RTÉ have 2 HD channels has brought the price of SD channels down, the addition of Oireactas TV will also see each channel decrease as would the addition of TG4HD.

It's up to ComReg to meet 2RN half way on this issue.

This Comreg argument about them meeting 2RN half way has been mooted around for years and it looks like it's never going to happen unless the minister for communications steps in and makes it happen. As it stands Saorview seems to be a poison challace for HD and new channel launches.

Delta2113

I really hope they do a demolition job on 3E - a 14 year old could make the channel 10 times better with the ITV material that they will have at their disposal from Thursday. All channels need to be HD.

I'm partial to the odd episode of Bondi Rescue but please, time to give it a rest.

icdg

There is a Sunday Times article this morning (behind paywall) that focuses on the profit Channel 6 Broadcasting Limited contributed to TV3's group accounts for 2015. The programming may be uninspiring, but it appears 3e is making money.

galtee boy

icdg wrote: »

There is a Sunday Times article this morning (behind paywall) that focuses on the profit Channel 6 Broadcasting Limited contributed to TV3's group accounts for 2015. The programming may be uninspiring, but it appears 3e is making money.

Saw that article, 3e made €4m profit last year apparently. Nice touch for a channel that does nothing only show repeats all day long! I suppose it means that UTVI or whatever it will be rebranded to, could do ok showing more repeats and whatever golden oldies Virgin will dig out of the ITV archives.

Elmo

3e has been getting a steady 2.5% share with very little content I think I said on this thread it was TV3's saviour.

This year it fell back each month but with the return of I'm a celebrity it will push its audience back up.

iseegirls

They only have I'm a Celeb for 4 nights, before the finale next Sunday. Which makes the decision to start broadcasting it on TV3 and 3e even odder.

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iseegirls wrote: »

They only have I'm a Celeb for 4 nights, before the finale next Sunday. Which makes the decision to start broadcasting it on TV3 and 3e even odder.

I suppose been so close to xmas the scheduling for three channels is a bit much to sort out. So maybe until the xmas holiday is over and we begin the new year the scheduling for the three channels will become more settled and hopefully all content will have it' propper home. Understandably Virgin Media were going to try and put their own stamp on things straight away. So big changes coming 2017 we hope.

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iseegirls wrote: »

They only have I'm a Celeb for 4 nights, before the finale next Sunday. Which makes the decision to start broadcasting it on TV3 and 3e even odder.

I suppose been so close to xmas the scheduling for three channels is a bit much to sort out. So maybe until the xmas holiday is over and we begin the new year the scheduling for the three channels will become more settled and hopefully all content will have it' propper home. Understandably Virgin Media were going to try and put their own stamp on things straight away. So big changes coming 2017 we hope.

Sam Russell

deezell wrote: »

I agree. If RTENL met TV3 halfway and charged a nominal increase for a HD terrestrial channel, say based on viewer numbers increase then there would be pressure on them to accept. It would interesting to see what would happen if they were offered an HD channell for the same rate. Would they squeeze the quality in order to maintain the subscription lever of HD on Sky?. I'm certain it would increase terrestrial viewers.

This is not possible.

2RN are not allowed to charge like that because TV3 threw their toys out of the pram and would only take them back if the charge for Saorview was based on bandwidth so they could minimise their costs. The charges are set at €12 m/annum for two muxes and shared out according to bandwidth used - ignoring unused bandwidth. As a consequence, RTE pays over two thirds of the cost for two HD channels and two channels that carry no revenue earning adverts. The other four channels pay the remaining third.

If all channels went HD their would be a small increase in cost to the SD channels because the overall cost remains constant.

It was because of TV3 that the present charging regime exists.