has cork city been ruined by bike lanes?

FrStone

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

But isn't the whole point of the cycle lane to get less people using cars in the city centre and more using bikes, to reduce overall driving levels? If you take it out, then you're creating a less safe environment for cyclists and giving people more reason to use cars, thus increasing the overall traffic levels. It might increase traffic initially, but in the long term, it'll be an incentive to get more people cycling. That's a good thing for traffic (look at how much space the equivalent number of cars take up vs bicycles), public health (the more people exercising regularly, the less cost it'll put on our health service) and the environment (we're working to get our carbon emissions down to a certain level).

There are two Bike Share docking stations along that stretch of road, which are suited perfectly to a segregated cycle lane. I would imagine that both the placing of the stations and the building of the lane were done with each other in mind, so I don't think it'd be beneficial taking that away. It would mean that Bike Share users wouldn't be able to travel contra-flow, as they can now, so they'd have to come back along the North Gate Bridge and up along to get to Patricks Street/Parnell Place etc. Forces all cyclists from Sundays Well and the walkway coming from the Mardyke Walk to go across the North Gate Bridge, as well. As a motorist, wouldn't it be better for cyclists to be in the segregated cycle lanes, rather than in front of the car? Especially if it's a novice cyclist, which would be more likely to use these kind of lanes/the Bike Share scheme.

The traffic was unreal there, ever since they introduced the cycle lane, especially if you wanted to go straight on up Sundays well.
They could have made a longer green light too though.

If you drive on the other side of the quays it is just as bad as trying to turn right over by the gate cinema takes for ever during rush hour.

It's about time they take some of these cycle lanes out. They are being shoved in everywhere against the wish of our elected representatives, and no one seems to think about the effect on traffic. I try my best to go to mahon or wilton for anything I need as there is free parking and it's easy enough to get in and out of.

mire

That's the spirit, take out cycle lanes a few months after they have been installed simply because of a few compaints from motorists and ill-informed comments from local members.

The city centre has been enhanced by the provision of cycle lanes. The City Council needs to stand firm on this. More cycle lanes are needed, not less.

FrStone

mire wrote: »

That's the spirit, take out cycle lanes a few months after they have been installed simply because of a few compaints from motorists and ill-informed comments from local members.

The city centre has been enhanced by the provision of cycle lanes. The City Council needs to stand firm on this. More cycle lanes are needed, not less.

Less are most certainly needed not more. Public transport on Washington Street had been affected. I know people who can't get to ucc on time anymore since the lanes were introduced.

mire

Wow, UCC must be up in arms - people dropping out of College now "cause of the bike lanes", are there?

Paz-CCFC

Didn't the segregated cycle lane on Lancaster Quay mostly take the place of onstreet parking/footpath? It was only a right hand turn lane for parts, nearer the junctions. You couldn't drive along most of it. The cycle lane is only a single, contra-flow unlike the one in Pope's Quay, so takes up a small amount of space and they still managed to maintain a fair few parking spaces.

That and Pope's Quay are probably one the best and safest city centre cycle lanes in the country. They provide a direct route right into town, it's great. Much better than those shared cycle/bus lanes that are more common in Dublin, where cyclists spend their trip getting squeezed right against the kerb by buses.

Subpopulus

cgcsb wrote: »

Shocking that the City Council is actually getting rid of a cycle lane to appease motorists.

They're not getting rid of a cycle lane. It's just some councillors moaning.

thomil

FrStone wrote: »

Less are most certainly needed not more. Public transport on Washington Street had been affected. I know people who can't get to ucc on time anymore since the lanes were introduced.

Quite frankly, if they can't get to UCC on time, then these people have their own time management to blame, and not the bike lanes.

As far as ripping out bike lanes is concerned, that would be the worst thing that could happen to Cork, especially when it comes to the Pope's Quay cycle path, which I use regularly. Not just from a financial standpoint, but it would also show that the city council, and large parts of the population, are unable to grasp mobility concepts further advanced than those from the 1960s. What must happen is to plug the gaps between the existing bike lanes, to extend the network out further, and to increase the number of bike racks, and ultimately docking stations for Coke Zero Bikes.
The basic fact remains that Cork is a city that is not built for cars. People should finally realise that. If you want to make Cork a car-friendly city, pretty much the only way to achieve that is to carpet bomb the entire city area, and rebuild it from the ground up with an appropriate road network.
Given the fact that this course of action may prove to be slightly unpopular, not to mention impractical, the only other way to proceed is to make other transit options more, and motorised individual traffic less, attractive. And as long as the Cork Area Transit Study from 2009 continues to gather dust in a government drawer, the bike lanes are the best option Cork has for that.

KCAccidental

I use Popes quay a lot and haven't really experienced the traffic chaos people are talking about. maybe an extra 2-3 minute wait at the lights.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Jezz, the usual over-reaction to a 'possible' removal of a cycle lane.

KCAccidental

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Jezz, the usual over-reaction to a 'possible' removal of a cycle lane.

which is due to the usual over reaction of motorists and local politicians.

hoodwinked

seriously can people stop blaming cyclists/motorists for these things....this happen's with road junctions all the time, look at that roundabout in togher that became a traffic light junction and then reverted back to a roundabout.... :rolleyes:


if it's not working out, it's not working out, at least they tried it and will now try a different approach, unfortunately all kinds of commuter traffic in Cork tends not to go the way the planners and engineer's envision when they design these layouts and it may take a few attempts to get it right.

Frostybrew

All that needs to be changed here is the traffic light sequence needs to be altered to favour Popes quay, and even then it need only be a minor alteration. I live near that area and pass along Popes Quay several times a day. There is very little traffic on that road. When a build up of traffic occurs it is due to the sequence of the lights, nothing to do with the cycle lane. Sometimes it can be several minutes before the lights turn green, and when it does only for a short period of time, which disrupts the traffic flow from this direction.

The cycle lane on the other hand had made a huge improvement to the street. There's a much more relaxed atmosphere, which seems to have benefitted the businesses located on the street.

enas

Frostybrew wrote: »

The cycle lane on the other hand had made a huge improvement to the street. There's a much more relaxed atmosphere, which seems to have benefitted the businesses located on the street.

This. Pope's quay was a bit grim to be honest before the change.

That's an aspect that often gets overlooked and that should be much more emphasised I believe.

j8wk2feszrnpao

KCAccidental wrote: »

which is due to the usual over reaction of motorists and local politicians.

Not really. It's a 'possible' change to one cycle lane. No need for such an over reaction.

mire

Is it time to suggest a modification to the thread title ?

"Has Cork City been ruined by car lanes"?

whisky_galore

enas wrote: »

This. Pope's quay was a bit grim to be honest before the change.

That's an aspect that often gets overlooked and that should be much more emphasised I believe.

And nothing at all to do with certain businesses that opened up on that stretch??

Stepping Stone

It is simply bad planning/ not reviewing the traffic that is the issue. You cannot change one part of the system without looking at the bigger picture.

They removed one lane without considering that they were halving the potential number of cars to get through the lights.

You see it all the time around the city, the roundabout in Togher, the priority given to traffic to and from the Well Rd, not the main Skehard Rd. Those pavements that prevented buses turning corners on Parnell Place...

It isn't cyclists/ motorists, it is the horrific lack of joined up thinking in City Hall.

mire

Stepping Stone wrote: »

It is simply bad planning/ not reviewing the traffic that is the issue. You cannot change one part of the system without looking at the bigger picture.

They removed one lane without considering that they were halving the potential number of cars to get through the lights.

You see it all the time around the city, the roundabout in Togher, the priority given to traffic to and from the Well Rd, not the main Skehard Rd. Those pavements that prevented buses turning corners on Parnell Place...

It isn't cyclists/ motorists, it is the horrific lack of joined up thinking in City Hall.

You are correct in that making changes to road layouts will inevitably have consequences for traffic movements. And that these need to be considered. The removal of one lane along the quays (which is a good idea for many reasons - one of which is that we shouldn't allow our quaysides to be functioning as fast moving traffic arteries in the first place - at the expense of safety, pedestrians, businesses, public space, amenity etc) will not half the number of cars going through the junction; traffic capacity is not dictated solely by the number of lanes, so that is a major exaggeration.

In addition, if those changes reduce the capacity of the quays in vehicular terms, improve its attractiveness as a pedestrian and cycle route, calms the overall traffic environment, well then - minor inconveniences such as delayes to motorists are, on balance, justifiable. Absolutely they are.

But, more importantly, we should be asking ourselves what kind of a city centre do we want. Should the priority be for

1. Ensuring cars get through and around as fast as possible?
2. Re-balance the priority in favour of non-car users?

Stepping Stone

mire wrote: »

You are correct in that making changes to road layouts will inevitably have consequences for traffic movements. And that these need to be considered. The removal of one lane along the quays (which is a good idea for many reasons - one of which is that we shouldn't allow our quaysides to be functioning as fast moving traffic arteries in the first place - at the expense of safety, pedestrians, businesses, public space, amenity etc) will not half the number of cars going through the junction; traffic capacity is not dictated solely by the number of lanes, so that is a major exaggeration.

I think that you misunderstood me. What I meant was that reducing the lanes from two to one reduces the potential numbers of cars getting through the lights.

For example, if we assume that three cars get through the lights on a green currently, and there has been no adjustment to the timing sequence since before the work, that means that previously with two lanes, there was a potential for six cars to get through.

I would imagine that if anything the number of cars has dropped along there if anything since the introduction of the cycle lanes?

TheChizler

Stepping Stone wrote: »

For example, if we assume that three cars get through the lights on a green currently, and there has been no adjustment to the timing sequence since before the work, that means that previously with two lanes, there was a potential for six cars to get through.

That only makes a difference if the junction is constantly at capacity, if it were then tailbacks would lead as far as the next junction at these times. It doesn't seem like this is happening so the junction must be operating under capacity.

Stepping Stone

TheChizler wrote: »

That only makes a difference if the junction is constantly at capacity, if it were then tailbacks would lead as far as the next junction at these times. It doesn't seem like this is happening so the junction must be operating under capacity.

I agree, but my point is that they should have looked at it as a whole. They implemented the scheme, therefore they should have forseen issues. Drivers feel that they are being delayed, therefore there is resentment about the cycle lanes. A small tweak of the light sequence should have been made to give the sense that traffic was moving as fast as before. Obviously it needs to be a comprehensive change, but it should have been considered.

SpaceTime

Cork urgently needs much better public transport (and I mean just busses essentially although a tram line or two might be an idea).

In the short to medium term they could do with building a few more multi stories on the edge of the city centre too. I know there's a good few but the prices are insane for what's involved. The council needs to incentivise provision of parking at an attractive price.

Driving cars up and down narrow city streets doesn't make sense really. Another service the city could offer is some kind of shop and park mini busses in the city centre to link up the car parks on the edges. That would be a huge assistance to shoppers who aren't so mobile or have lots of bags.

The city centre needs to think of itself as a shopping centre really and provide those kinds of facilities.

You don't drive your car up and down the mall at Mahon Point or Dundrum so, why do you need to do that in Patrick's St?

TheChizler

SpaceTime wrote: »

In the short to medium term they could do with building a few more multi stories on the edge of the city centre too. I know there's a good few but the prices are insane for what's involved. The council needs to incentivise provision of parking at an attractive price.

I agree about the prices but aren't the various multi-stories around rarely full?

SpaceTime

Something is seriously up then as the prices are FAR too high for a city this size.

Dannyboy83

Stepping Stone wrote: »

It is simply bad planning/ not reviewing the traffic that is the issue. You cannot change one part of the system without looking at the bigger picture.

They removed one lane without considering that they were halving the potential number of cars to get through the lights.

You see it all the time around the city, the roundabout in Togher, the priority given to traffic to and from the Well Rd, not the main Skehard Rd. Those pavements that prevented buses turning corners on Parnell Place...

It isn't cyclists/ motorists, it is the horrific lack of joined up thinking in City Hall.

This is spot on imo.
Most of the problems at Pope's quay were caused by the poorly timed lights.

I'm surprised at how many people commented they never noticed heavy traffic here, compared to what I experienced on a daily basis for about a year.
However, it does make sense. There are a higher number of HGVs trying to get onto the N20 at 6.30am, and this was usually when the problems would arise.
Usually one, maybe two HGVs would make it across the intersection before the lights would change (it seems to be a difficult turn for a HGV to make anyway). Then a queue forms.

I noticed a lot of people commenting that people were either turning right for the N20 or going for Sunday's Well, but - in my experience at least - about 1 in every 3 cars was actually going up Mulgrave Rd. That was why it became so dangerous - people became frustrated at queueing behind all the right turning vehicles and just started using the empty left lane, then cut through the intersection (and frequently red lights).
The problem for me was that I was the dummy who was prepared to queue to head up Mulgrave Rd, so I would subjected to lunatics trying to cut through me all the time, lol!
Laughs aside, someone could easily be killed here if they weren't prepared for the phantom merging.

A better timed light would have nipped this in the bud. It's crazy to think this has persisted for a year without being addressed.

thomil wrote: »

The basic fact remains that Cork is a city that is not built for cars. People should finally realise that. If you want to make Cork a car-friendly city, pretty much the only way to achieve that is to carpet bomb the entire city area, and rebuild it from the ground up with an appropriate road network.

I agree, I think trying to make Cork more car friendly is daft tbh.
We should really be looking for ways to take cars out of the city, or better yet, ban private cars.
I said from the outset that I welcomed the cycle lanes, but that it wasn't going to work without an orbital road.

Dublin didn't have to destroy the city, they just built the M50.
Cork needs a similar solution.

monument

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Dublin didn't have to destroy the city, they just built the M50.
Cork needs a similar solution.

The N40?

Stepping Stone

monument wrote: »

The N40?

The southern ring road isn't much good for bypassing the city centre really. You still have to go through the city centre to get to or from the Northside.

Ludo

Stepping Stone wrote: »

The southern ring road isn't much good for bypassing the city centre really. You still have to go through the city centre to get to or from the Northside.

Or take the tunnel and onto North Ring to avoid city centre. Not ideal but the option is there.

Stepping Stone

Ludo wrote: »

Or take the tunnel and onto North Ring to avoid city centre. Not ideal but the option is there.

You are practically back in town by the time you get to Silversprings though and nobody coming from the west or south will take that option. The north ring road is pretty congested, so not much faster a lot of the time.

SpaceTime

Ludo wrote: »

Or take the tunnel and onto North Ring to avoid city centre. Not ideal but the option is there.

There's a northern ring?!?
It looks more like a local road through some housing estates and suburbs to me...

The tunnel really serves the Eastern side of the City from Montenotte, Mayfield, Silversprings, Glanmire. Other areas of the Northside are actually totally reliant on cutting through town really and are quite badly served with roads compared to the south, west and east.