has cork city been ruined by bike lanes?

whisky_galore

Maybe if they actually spent money on the dilapidated city centre instead of poorly planned cycle lanes/grounded sky gardens/fancy lamps, some of the buildings esp the cineplex and surrounds look like sh!t stuck to a blanket.

evilivor

FrStone wrote: »

And despite this I still see cyclists cycling on the road up Washington Street. :rolleyes:

There is no obligation to use cycle lanes - the law changed a couple of years ago - most cyclists don't use them as are full of rubbish, drains and parked cars.

AugustusMinimus

evilivor wrote: »

There is no obligation to use cycle lanes - the law changed a couple of years ago - most cyclists don't use them as are full of rubbish, drains and parked cars.

What a country we live in. Filter lanes are being removed everywhere to be replaced with cycle lanes and then a lot of cyclists not using the cycle lanes.

Its obvious to me that what they are doing in the city centre was not thought out at all and looks like nothing more than some sort of vanity project or a project pushed through so that funding didn't have to be returned to which ever body supplied it.

I get the feeling a lot of this will all be dug up again within 3 or 4 years when people realise that the traffic is grinding the city to a standstill and no one is using the cycle lanes as Ireland is quite possibly the wettest country in Europe.

lolosaur

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is correct.

Previously, the left lane was for Donovans Road.
The centre lane was straight on.
The right lane was to do the U-Turn or, access the Mardyke complex, homes, businesses and amenities there.

Currently, Donovans Road is inaccessible meaning all traffic must proceed straight on.
And there is no longer a right lane.

The new filter system means that if there are more than 2 cars yielding on the junction or waiting for the lights to change (there are hundreds of cars doing this every evening) , then the entirety of Washington street will come to a complete halt... unless all traffic diverts up Donovan Road onto College Road to change at Dennehy's Cross (which is already a major congestion point).

Mardyke Walk, which is already a cul de sac, cannot be pedestrianized due to the various residences, businesses and amenities which require road access, so the only was I can imagine this will even function, is to remove the barrier on Western Road to turn onto Mardyke Walk - and make this entire street one way.

Either that, or somehow create two lanes out the present one, after the junction at Donovan's Road.

cant see this happening.

Then again, we are tlaking about people in charge who spend tens of thousands on ink cartridges every year. i wouldnt put it past them...

evilivor

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What a country we live in. Filter lanes are being removed everywhere to be replaced with cycle lanes and then a lot of cyclists not using the cycle lanes.

If the cycle lanes were maintained, cars and trucks didn't persist in driving over or parking in them, cyclists may be tempted to use them. Seperating them from traffic with the new bollards is a start.

Cycle lanes are really only for cyclists who want to be protected from traffic and to travel at low speeds. For cyclists who wish to travel at higher speeds, it is recommended that they continue to use the main roadways and avoid bike lanes.

Max_Charger

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I get the feeling a lot of this will all be dug up again within 3 or 4 years when people realise that the traffic is grinding the city to a standstill and no one is using the cycle lanes as Ireland is quite possibly the wettest country in Europe.

Or, bear with me, people might finally realise that that Cork city is so small you can cycle from the outskirts of Bishopstown to the likes of the train station in 15 minutes regardless of time of day or traffic and people might leave their biggest transporter of empty seats at home and leave the roads to vehicles that actually need to use them?

FrStone

Max_Charger wrote: »

Or, bear with me, people might finally realise that that Cork city is so small you can cycle from the outskirts of Bishopstown to the likes of the train station in 15 minutes regardless of time of day or traffic and people might leave their biggest transporter of empty seats at home and leave the roads to vehicles that actually need to use them?

I'm very doubtful that will happen. As usual you will just have the few cycling fanatics that will lambast everyone else for choosing to drive instead of walking or cycling.

deRanged

There are big plans to change the traffic flows throughout the city centre though, so I expect the cycle lanes are in place with this in mind.

AugustusMinimus

deRanged wrote: »

There are big plans to change the traffic flows throughout the city centre though, so I expect the cycle lanes are in place with this in mind.

There certainly is. McCurtain Street will be made 2 way which is sure to reduce the traffic :rolleyes:

Everything the city council have done lately has seemed to do nothing but increase traffic everywhere. Digging up roundabouts everywhere looks to be only a start.

AugustusMinimus

evilivor wrote: »

Cycle lanes are really only for cyclists who want to be protected from traffic and to travel at low speeds. For cyclists who wish to travel at higher speeds, it is recommended that they continue to use the main roadways and avoid bike lanes.

The new bike lanes are completely separated from traffic and are as wide as the road itself. You surely don't believe it is safer to cycle with the traffic than in the virtually empty cycle lanes which are as wide the road itself ?

evilivor

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There certainly is. McCurtain Street will be made 2 way which is sure to reduce the traffic :rolleyes:

Everything the city council have done lately has seemed to do nothing but increase traffic everywhere. Digging up roundabouts everywhere looks to be only a start.

The proposal for MacCurtain St is interesting if it's done right - they plan to widen the footpaths and improve accessibility to create a improved pedestrian experience, so the area can act as a link between Kent railway station and Patrick’s Street.

"This is a plan done for traders by the traders. There is 100% support from traders for this plan, and for the introduction of the new two-way traffic system. All we are thinking about now is what’s going to be right about this street in the future.”

whisky_galore

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The new bike lanes are completely separated from traffic and are as wide as the road itself. You surely don't believe it is safer to cycle with the traffic than in the virtually empty cycle lanes which are as wide the road itself ?

The lycra clad people don't like getting held up by someone puffing along on a cycle-to-work bike or an arts student with a high nelly full of messages.

FrStone

evilivor wrote: »

The proposal for MacCurtain St is interesting if it's done right - they plan to widen the footpaths and improve accessibility to create a improved pedestrian experience, so the area can act as a link between Kent railway station and Patrick’s Street.

"This is a plan done for traders by the traders. There is 100% support from traders for this plan, and for the introduction of the new two-way traffic system. All we are thinking about now is what’s going to be right about this street in the future.”

What will the story with parking be? McCurtin Street is kinda dilapidated enough but the parking was handy if you wanted to run in and quickly get something. If the parking is taken away I'd have no real reason to ever be on McCurtin Street - unless going to the Everyman.

jimgoose

whisky_galore wrote: »

The lycra clad people don't like getting held up by someone puffing along on a cycle-to-work bike or an arts student with a high nelly full of messages.

:pac::pac::pac: Ain't that the truth!

For what it's worth, I think city-centre cycling lanes are a great idea. I'd rather shave my head with a cheesegrater than drive a car into any city-centre these days, and in fact I usually use the trolley-bus on those occasions when I need to go in.

Max_Charger

FrStone wrote: »

As usual you will just have the few cycling fanatics that will lambast everyone else for choosing to drive instead of walking or cycling.

Oh the irony.

AugustusMinimus

evilivor wrote: »

The proposal for MacCurtain St is interesting if it's done right - they plan to widen the footpaths and improve accessibility to create a improved pedestrian experience, so the area can act as a link between Kent railway station and Patrick’s Street.

"This is a plan done for traders by the traders. There is 100% support from traders for this plan, and for the introduction of the new two-way traffic system. All we are thinking about now is what’s going to be right about this street in the future.”

I agree that the plan will aid traders. I'm not sure what the city council are planning in terms of getting cars out of the city centre onto the Lower Glanmire Road. The junction of Coburg, McCurtain and Bridge Street is going to be mental when you throw in the extra movements it will be required to handle.

whisky_galore

jimgoose wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac: Ain't that the truth!

For what it's worth, I think city-centre cycling lanes are a great idea. I'd rather shave my head with a cheesegrater than drive a car into any city-centre these days, and in fact I usually use the trolley-bus on those occasions when I need to go in.

Also, cycle lanes tend to collect broken glass and assorted nasties over time that don't like tyres. Wonder if the street cleaning machines can actually clean inside them, I fcuking doubt it.

AugustusMinimus

whisky_galore wrote: »

Also, cycle lanes tend to collect broken glass and assorted nasties over time that don't like tyres. Wonder if the street cleaning machines can actually clean inside them, I fcuking doubt it.

You could drive a artic lorry down the new ones considering the width of them.

whisky_galore

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

You could drive a artic lorry down the new ones considering the width of them.

You could, yeah.

bladebrew

The best point I have seen is how many people will see the new cycle lanes then decide to leave the car at home and cycle to work instead, my guess is 0,
The cycle lanes outside the city are good, even though I don't cycle they seem to fit in well and the Douglas road one is well used from what I see,
But taking away entire lanes of traffic to help a handful of cyclists is madness,

Michael..

Typical Irish attitude to change.

Let's face it. The city is absolutely ruined from traffic. The quicker people get out of the their cars and onto their bikes the better.

If you have a problem with the traffic on the western road then don't use it - use an alternative route.

On a side note, I think the council are bringing forward plans to ban traffic from Patrick's street. In my opinion, I think this is a great idea. I'd much rather see people walking and cycling down the middle city main thoroughfare rather than traffic jam.

lolosaur

Michael.. wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude to change.

Let's face it. The city is absolutely ruined from traffic. The quicker people get out of the their cars and onto their bikes the better.

If you have a problem with the traffic on the western road then don't use it - use an alternative route.

On a side note, I think the council are bringing forward plans to ban traffic from Patrick's street. In my opinion, I think this is a great idea. I'd much rather see people walking and cycling down the middle city main thoroughfare rather than traffic jam.

The city is dying and you propose to redirect traffic away from it?????

jaysus michael, i hope you dont use logic in your job.

evilivor

Michael.. wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude to change.

Let's face it. The city is absolutely ruined from traffic. The quicker people get out of the their cars and onto their bikes the better.

If you have a problem with the traffic on the western road then don't use it - use an alternative route.

On a side note, I think the council are bringing forward plans to ban traffic from Patrick's street. In my opinion, I think this is a great idea. I'd much rather see people walking and cycling down the middle city main thoroughfare rather than traffic jam.

I got in to a taxi in city centre a few weeks ago. Almost immediately the driver said: “What do you think of these new bike lanes – they’re a effin’ disgrace aren’t they?”

I replied that, no, in fact in thought were a great idea – anything that encouraged fewer cars in the city centre the better – and I said that there should be nothing allowed except taxis and buses.

Cue silence…

Then he said, rather sheepishly, “Well, I wasn’t expecting that response” and he started to laugh.

Then he began to think about it a bit more and he said: “Well, it would be brilliant for us… less traffic etc, more customers.”

By the time I got to my destination we had the city centre transport policy sorted between us. Buses and taxis only in the city centre area; subsidised parking in the council car park, more park and ride; enforced pedestrian priority; no deliveries after 10am and proper sanctions for pedestrians who don’t cross at zebra crossings and cyclists who act like dicks. Give live back to the city.

AugustusMinimus

Michael.. wrote: »

Typical Irish attitude to change.

I don't mind change. I just don't like change which has clearly not been thought through fully and which in some case (Washington Street) has been declared by the Gardaí to be downright dangerous.

Michael.. wrote: »

Let's face it. The city is absolutely ruined from traffic. The quicker people get out of the their cars and onto their bikes the better.

Yes it is. However, get rid of very important filter lanes to install 3 meter wide cycle lanes isn't the answer. The traffic chaos which getting rid of all these filter will cause will be madness.

On the flip side, I seriously doubt that these cycle lanes will entice people out of the car and onto bikes. We have the wettest climate in Europe. The increase seen in cyclists lately is to do with the economy and how cheaper it is to cycle.

Michael.. wrote: »

If you have a problem with the traffic on the western road then don't use it - use an alternative route.

And if there isn't an alternative route ? Traffic avoiding the Western Road will also obviously clog up other streets which will now be used as rat runs.

Michael.. wrote: »

On a side note, I think the council are bringing forward plans to ban traffic from Patrick's street. In my opinion, I think this is a great idea. I'd much rather see people walking and cycling down the middle city main thoroughfare rather than traffic jam.

I don't really see the benefits here at all. It doesn't take much effort to go from side of Patrick Street to the other. Its not exactly as if the paths on Patrick Street are narrow. Similar to Western Road, this will force traffic that would have used Patrick Street into streets around it. The streets around it have had filter lanes removed.

I'll say it again, this will be an almighty mess which will be reverted within 3 or 4 years. I just hope the city centre isn't dead by then.

AugustusMinimus

By the way, can anyone name City Councillors who were against the current cycle lane plan ? I want to work out who I'll give my preferences to.

Henry94

“It's feckin' madness!” Sinn Féin Cllr Thomas Gould on the Washington St layout changes and how two lanes for traffic became one.

TINA1984

bladebrew wrote: »

The best point I have seen is how many people will see the new cycle lanes then decide to leave the car at home and cycle to work instead, my guess is 0,
The cycle lanes outside the city are good, even though I don't cycle they seem to fit in well and the Douglas road one is well used from what I see,
But taking away entire lanes of traffic to help a handful of cyclists is madness,

Going off other cities experiences, improving cycling infrastructure generally leads to big increases in people utilising it.

Of course, Cork is unique amongst all the cities in the world in that it is the only one with hills and rain, so of course its a waste of money...

evilivor

TINA1984 wrote: »

Going off other cities experiences, improving cycling infrastructure generally leads to big increases in people utilising it.

Of course, Cork is unique amongst all the cities in the world in that it is the only one with hills and rain, so of course its a waste of money...

Hills and lots of rain is the reason no one ever cycles in San Francisco either.

lolosaur

TINA1984 wrote: »

Going off other cities experiences, improving cycling infrastructure generally leads to big increases in people utilising it.

Of course, Cork is unique amongst all the cities in the world in that it is the only one with hills and rain, so of course its a waste of money...

No need to be a sarcastic arse.

Cork is very much unique in the respect of cycling due to it being suck in the heart of a vally and its outlying suburbs all being uphill. it would put a massive strain on budgetary constraints getting someone to bring load after load of bikes back to the terminals when people who freewheeled into work got the bus out of them.

Also, the buses with the bikes on the front. they have them in canada everywhere. people bring their bike in case they might want to cycle. it takes 5 minutes of fidgeting to get the thing on or off, frustrating people on the bus, cars behind and cyclist trying to pass by. It only has room for 2 bikes so when thicko number 3 comes along, it causes panic amongst everyone. you have a bike and/or legs, dont be so F**king greedy trying to use the bus too. terrible ideas.

lolosaur

evilivor wrote: »

Hills and lots of rain is the reason no one ever cycles in San Francisco either.

The wind and the cold generally. the thing with san fran is everyone is trying to out hipster each other at the moment so basically you just have a lad going around with a bike tyre looking all hip with one of those kellogs corn flakes spokie dokies hangin out the back of it.

Michael..

lolosaur wrote: »

The city is dying and you propose to redirect traffic away from it?????

jaysus michael, i hope you dont use logic in your job.

Cars don't spend money, people do.

I despise the city at the moment simply because it's full of traffic. I think you'll agree that the city centre would be a much more pleasant place if a greater number of the streets were pedestrianised and a higher number of people used a bike as a mode of transport.

AugustusMinimus

Michael.. wrote: »

Cars don't spend money, people do.

I despise the city at the moment simply because it's full of traffic. I think you'll agree that the city centre would be a much more pleasant place if a greater number of the streets were pedestrianised and a higher number of people used a bike as a mode of transport.

Would you ban cycling in the pedestrianised areas ?

farmerjj

Michael.. wrote: »

Cars don't spend money, people do.

I despise the city at the moment simply because it's full of traffic. I think you'll agree that the city centre would be a much more pleasant place if a greater number of the streets were pedestrianised and a higher number of people used a bike as a mode of transport.

That should have started with "in a perfect world" cork is a badly laid out city and you cant change that now.

Michael..

farmerjj wrote: »

That should have started with "in a perfect world" cork is a badly laid out city and you cant change that now.

Well, by the looks of things they are in the middle of changing it.

Michael..

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Would you ban cycling in the pedestrianised areas ?

If there were clearly defined and safe cycle lanes then yes.

lolosaur

Michael.. wrote: »

If there were clearly defined and safe cycle lanes then yes.

there is a 15 foot wide footpath on either side of the street.

I really dont see what the big issue it.

every cross street between merchants quay and grand parade is pedestrianised. where the hell do you be walking that you so badly need to stand in the middle of pana?????

bad enough paul street was taken over by goth hippopotemous looking devil vampire worshipping teenagers who hate their parents, you want them to stant in pana looking miserable now too.

Maybe start looking at some of the disadvantaged areas and derilict sites around the city or maybe a trip down to the homeless shelter. Maybe funding for these vital projects would be much better use then spending 400 million putting down cobble stones on the main street because bikes are being victimised and dole scrounging scum need to have a place to fester for the day.

evilivor

farmerjj wrote: »

cork is a badly laid out city and you cant change that now.

So perhaps the original query should have been have bike lanes been ruined by Cork City?

lolosaur

evilivor wrote: »

So perhaps the original query should have been have bike lanes been ruined by Cork City?

I tell you what, it's 90% of the bike lanes that are fine, it is that 10% of bike lanes who dont treat the other 90% of bike lanes like bike lanes, that is the big problem.if bike lanes had a bit more respect for other lanes on the road then there would be far fewer lane related fatalities. Pedestrianise bike lanes to keep the city free of congestion, thats what i say.

Max_Charger

TINA1984 wrote: »

Going off other cities experiences, improving cycling infrastructure generally leads to big increases in people utilising it.

Of course, Cork is unique amongst all the cities in the world in that it is the only one with hills and rain, so of course its a waste of money...

evilivor wrote: »

Hills and lots of rain is the reason no one ever cycles in San Francisco either.

Would the two of ye go away with your well thought out logical responses and don't come back till ye start making up statistics and guess work. Most of the posters here don't understand reasoned debate until you start making stuff up.

bladebrew wrote: »

The best point I have seen is how many people will see the new cycle lanes then decide to leave the car at home and cycle to work instead, my guess is 0,
The cycle lanes outside the city are good, even though I don't cycle they seem to fit in well and the Douglas road one is well used from what I see,
But taking away entire lanes of traffic to help a handful of cyclists is madness,

Like this man here, guessing is the only way! Despite the fact cycling is one of the fastest growing sports in Ireland with memberships of Cycling Ireland growing 500% since 2007 helped by the bike to work scheme.
And then goes on to contradict himself in the same sentence saying the Douglas road is "well used" but will only help a "handful".

evilivor

Max_Charger wrote: »

Would the two of ye go away with your well thought out logical responses and don't come back till ye start making up statistics and guess work. Most of the posters here don't understand reasoned debate until you start making stuff up.



Like this man here, guessing is the only way! Despite the fact cycling is one of the fastest growing sports in Ireland with memberships of Cycling Ireland growing 500% since 2007 helped by the bike to work scheme.
And then goes on to contradict himself in the same sentence saying the Douglas road is "well used" but will only help a "handful".

2,500% of statistics are FMA.

ofcork

Taxis are being allowed to park outside reardens at night,makes things tight alright.

Dave47

ofcork wrote: »

Taxis are being allowed to park outside reardens at night,makes things tight alright.

I see cars parked on the bike lane there everyday- it's a joke to cycle on as it stands- if was actually being used a bit there'd have been an accident already.

Dannyboy83

Max_Charger wrote: »

cycling is one of the fastest growing sports in Ireland with memberships of Cycling Ireland growing 500% since 2007 helped by the bike to work scheme.

Why do you think this not reflected in the commuting statics?

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=723
Cork City has relatively low public transport usage, just 8% of commuters in the city and the suburbs using public transport compared to 21% in Dublin. Cork also has a relatively low cycling share with just 2% of commuters using bikes to get to and from school and work.

My assumption is that cycle lanes won't make much difference, since most employers do not provide shower facilities in the workplace, and many require formal attire.

Max_Charger wrote: »

And then goes on to contradict himself in the same sentence saying the Douglas road is "well used" but will only help a "handful".

I don't see the contradiction myself.

He said the Douglas road bike lane is well used, but he guesses the uptake by 'new' cyclists (i.e. those who didn't already cycle) will be 0. It's quite similar to the "Healthy User Bias" effect.

Therefore the major upheaval across Cork City will only help the 2% of cyclist who already commute in Cork City - which when spread out across the city doesn't even feel like 2%, but a handful.

FrStone

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My assumption is that cycle lanes won't make much difference, since most employers do not provide shower facilities in the workplace, and many require formal attire.

You are on the ball here. Even if I lived a 20 minute cycle from work that took just as long in a car I would still have to drive. I need to wear a suit for work. I can't arrive in all sweaty and with no possibility of showering until I get home. It just isn't practical.

FrStone

Max_Charger wrote: »

Most of the posters here don't understand reasoned debate until you start making stuff up.

Oh no, it's obvious that I'm in the minority in this debate. How do I get out of this, lets dismiss their intelligence. :rolleyes:

cgcsb

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

By attempting to retrofit cycle lanes on many of the busiest thoroughfares in Cork, they have removed vital overflow lanes and reduced the most congested areas of the city to a single lane, despite no reduction in the actual throughput.

that's how cycle lanes are generally built.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Personally I have entirely stopped doing any business or shopping in the city centre, as well as cancelling membership of a gym where I had been a member for 12 years.

I think you're being a tad dramatic. It's a bicycle lane.

VWD8

I cant understand how anyone can defend those cycle lanes on Washington street. I actually get the point about reducing cars and making more room for public transport and bikes. But this new layout has destroyed the quality of the bus services on that route. I travel that street almost every day, It is reguarly taking the 205/208 30-40 minutes to get from the bus station to the Courthouse! There used NEVER be delays here before the cycle lanes went in. How is that going to encourage people to use public transport? Along with making driving into the city impossible, it also makes using public transport a nightmare - Result: People wont come into the city.

Max_Charger

FrStone wrote: »

Oh no, it's obvious that I'm in the minority in this debate. How do I get out of this, lets dismiss their intelligence. :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

My assumption is that cycle lanes won't make much difference



but he guesses

Like I said, guessing, assuming and gems like "90% of cyclists are at fault". I don't have to resort to sarcastic smilies to get my point across either.
People assumed and guessed Dublin bike would be a stupid idea and will never take off, turned out to be the complete opposite. Time will only tell with this as well.

bladebrew

Max_Charger wrote: »

Like this man here, guessing is the only way! Despite the fact cycling is one of the fastest growing sports in Ireland with memberships of Cycling Ireland growing 500% since 2007 helped by the bike to work scheme.
And then goes on to contradict himself in the same sentence saying the Douglas road is "well used" but will only help a "handful".

When I say well used I mean you might see 4-5 cyclists between the city and Douglas,I don't see much more than that, meanwhile the bus drives by with 50-60 people on it! I was trying to find a positive example, the Douglas cycle lane i assume works, cyclists use it, motorists don't need the space, but remodelling the City for a minority is a waste of money in my opinion,

The council have simply guessed everyone will start cycling now so why can't I guess?

We're there not studies done before they started all the work?, everyone has a utopia of canals and cycle lanes in their heads but it won't happen, look at the weather it's May and it's still feckin cold, how many people are reconsidering cycling to work because of new cycle lanes?, 0 I think.

pwurple

FrStone wrote: »

You are on the ball here. Even if I lived a 20 minute cycle from work that took just as long in a car I would still have to drive. I need to wear a suit for work. I can't arrive in all sweaty and with no possibility of showering until I get home. It just isn't practical.

You don't need to get sweaty cycling, the same way you don't get sweaty walking. Just take the pace easy, it's not a race. When I cycle into town i'm not a ball of sweat, and I've a kid on the back carrier as well for a bit of extra weight.