has cork city been ruined by bike lanes?

Max_Charger

evilivor wrote: »

I would if I had an email address to send it to.

traffic@corkcity.ie I think, or they'll point you in the right direction.

evilivor

Max_Charger wrote: »

traffic@corkcity.ie I think, or they'll point you in the right direction.

Cheers. Never had any dealings them.

daveohdave

The council are actually good at email, to be fair. I reckon if you put the front line support in charge of the roads we'd be sorted out in no time. Our road planners should be in school. Kindergarten even.

mire

This thread is embarassing. I have rarely read a more ill-informed collection of posts about a topic anywhere; it makes Cork sound like a back-yard midlands provincial county town whinging about 'changes'. This is what grown-up European cities do. They re-allocate road space away from car domination in favour of pedestrian and cycling facilities. This requires change, and an inevitabel reduction in vehicular capacity, and the motoring public sometimes finds these changes difficult and frustrating. But then, they adapt, get used to sharing the city's streets and evolve. That's what happens in cities; since cities emerged, they change, adapt and innovate. Cork has to grow up and stop acting like it's a town. These arguments about cycle lanes are historical footnotes in most cities at this stage. Boats once were able to navigate down Patrick Street; then someone changed things and this no longer could happen. There were probably protests, complaints and doom merchants back then too.

And just like here, they were wrong too. The sky never fell in.


BTW, I am a motorist, a pedestrian and a cyclist.

Bacchus

mire wrote: »

This thread is embarassing. I have rarely read a more ill-informed collection of posts about a topic anywhere; it makes Cork sound like a back-yard midlands provincial county town whinging about 'changes'. This is what grown-up European cities do. They re-allocate road space away from car domination in favour of pedestrian and cycling facilities. This requires change, and an inevitabel reduction in vehicular capacity, and the motoring public sometimes finds these changes difficult and frustrating. But then, they adapt, get used to sharing the city's streets and evolve. That's what happens in cities; since cities emerged, they change, adapt and innovate. Cork has to grow up and stop acting like it's a town. These arguments about cycle lanes are historical footnotes in most cities at this stage. Boats once were able to navigate down Patrick Street; then someone changed things and this no longer could happen. There were probably protests, complaints and doom merchants back then too.

And just like here, they were wrong too. The sky never fell in.


BTW, I am a motorist, a pedestrian and a cyclist.

That's some great philosophising. Pity it doesn't help alleviate the backed up traffic due to cycle lanes being put down where there is not enough space for them. If you read the posts too you'll see that people do not have a problem with cycle lanes, merely the haphazard way in which they seem to be implemented around Cork. Examples have been provided throughout this thread. There doesn't seem to be a masterplan of organically interconnecting lanes. It's "stick a lane here", "oooh 2 lanes there", "lets see if we can throw in some awkward parking spaces along this lane"

I acknowledge that "maybe", just maybe, the masterplan is that the bike scheme becomes a huge success and this will eventually balance things out but it right now it just appears to be an uncoordinated mess.

Bacchus

BTW, it occurs to me that my criticism is perhaps not exactly constructive so here's just two things straight off the bat that I think would been better...

Proby's Quay and South Main street should not have been touched until a decision was made on the Beamish Factory site. Despite my own doubts about that site, if selected, there is massive potential to redevelop that entire area. Better parking and cycle lanes could form part of that.

Up on Pope's Quay there is a wonderfully wide footpath. The trees would need to come down and be replanted but that footpath could accommodate pedestrians and 2 cycle lanes, leaving room for 2 lanes of traffic and street parking. Bit more work to it but I think it would be a nice solution - pedestrian and cycle lanes along the river, what could be nicer

Days 298

Im not against bike lanes or cycling lanes. Just stupid ones. We need to widen roads to take cyclists. Western road has a bus lane which is used by parents at Pres and St Josephs as parking and not to mention how taxis and buses somehow always get ahead of traffic travelling at the speed limit :rolleyes: Theres the bus lane by Denneheys (?) Cross which nobody knows how to use. Bus lanes arent 24/7 yet people still end up making a mess of it. Theres a bus lane in Bishopstown which does nothing. There is little traffic. Remove the bus lane. Have two cycle ways.

Proper bike lanes should be installed on the straight road. I dont cycle but the poor feckers are stuck into the ditches while a big never needed bus lane runs down the opposite side. Theres never a tailback that warrants a bus lane on this road. The only way they get past cars is by speeding. Remove the bus lane and have two proper cycle ways.

Bacchus

Days 298 wrote: »

Proper bike lanes should be installed on the straight road. I dont cycle but the poor feckers are stuck into the ditches while a big never needed bus lane runs down the opposite side. Theres never a tailback that warrants a bus lane on this road. The only way they get past cars is by speeding. Remove the bus lane and have two proper cycle ways.

Perfect example of somewhere that could really do with proper, 2-way cycle lanes and there is ample space to accommodate it. I've not been out that way for about 2 months now so I've no idea if there's any work going on there already.

who_me

mire wrote: »

This thread is embarassing. I have rarely read a more ill-informed collection of posts about a topic anywhere; it makes Cork sound like a back-yard midlands provincial county town whinging about 'changes'. This is what grown-up European cities do. They re-allocate road space away from car domination in favour of pedestrian and cycling facilities. This requires change, and an inevitabel reduction in vehicular capacity, and the motoring public sometimes finds these changes difficult and frustrating. But then, they adapt, get used to sharing the city's streets and evolve. That's what happens in cities; since cities emerged, they change, adapt and innovate. Cork has to grow up and stop acting like it's a town. These arguments about cycle lanes are historical footnotes in most cities at this stage. Boats once were able to navigate down Patrick Street; then someone changed things and this no longer could happen. There were probably protests, complaints and doom merchants back then too.

And just like here, they were wrong too. The sky never fell in.


BTW, I am a motorist, a pedestrian and a cyclist.

Perhaps it might be helpful if you responded to individual points and constructively pointing out where and how we're ill-informed? You simply seem to be saying "New/European is good, "Existing/Irish is bad" without any backup argument, or without any consideration of the differences there might be between Cork and European cities in terms of size, layout, street width, topography, the demographic spread (families living in suburbs, or in city centre etc.?), the quality/spread of the public transport system, the percentage of car ownership, the security (or lack thereof) of bicycles in public areas, or the climate and its suitability for cycling.

evilivor

Bacchus wrote: »

BTW, it occurs to me that my criticism is perhaps not exactly constructive so here's just two things straight off the bat that I think would been better...

Proby's Quay and South Main street should not have been touched until a decision was made on the Beamish Factory site. Despite my own doubts about that site, if selected, there is massive potential to redevelop that entire area. Better parking and cycle lanes could form part of that.

Up on Pope's Quay there is a wonderfully wide footpath. The trees would need to come down and be replanted but that footpath could accommodate pedestrians and 2 cycle lanes, leaving room for 2 lanes of traffic and street parking. Bit more work to it but I think it would be a nice solution - pedestrian and cycle lanes along the river, what could be nicer

I'd agree with you on both points.

bladebrew

mire wrote: »

This is what grown-up European cities do. They re-allocate road space away from car domination in favour of pedestrian and cycling facilities.

This is very different, there is no alternative for anyone, the council have taken entire lanes of traffic away for no good reason, people will not start cycling simply because of this, it's already been pointed out that the amount of people commuting by bike is 2%! I even found a positive in saying the cycle lane fits well on the Douglas road but even then I was slagged by a cyclist,
It seems great when the weather is nice but this is not mainland Europe, they have caused traffic mayhem that will make the city worse for 98% of people,

SpaceTime

The biggest issue is that Cork's plans are not supported by adequate public transport.

Bus Éireann treat Cork LITTERALLY as a provincial town and don't seem to take it seriously at all.

The City itself should have control over franchising out bus routes under a Cork Transit brand.

You can have all the other trappings of a modern European city but without joined up thinking and adequate public transport you'll just cause major congestion as people don't have alternatives to cars.

Dave47

SpaceTime wrote: »

The biggest issue is that Cork's plans are not supported by adequate public transport.

Bus Éireann treat Cork LITTERALLY as a provincial town and don't seem to take it seriously at all.

The City itself should have control over franchising out bus routes under a Cork Transit brand.

You can have all the other trappings of a modern European city but without joined up thinking and adequate public transport you'll just cause major congestion as people don't have alternatives to cars.

agreed. Also the real-time info signs at the bus-stops are off-line today- terrible for tourists in cork.

enas

bladebrew wrote: »

it's already been pointed out that the amount of people commuting by bike is 2%!

And why do you think this is the case? And is this an immutable fact, or something that can change?

j8wk2feszrnpao

enas wrote: »

And why do you think this is the case? And is this an immutable fact, or something that can change?

I'd imagine it could change a bit, but there are factors than will restrict change:

• What is the state of the road before you meet a cycle lane.
• What is the state of the cycle lane and is it maintained.
• The distance/route to cycle to work.
• Are there showering facilities for people when they arrive at work.
• Many people drop/collect kids to school/creche on the way to/from work, so cycling isn't an option.
• The weather. We tend to get more rain and more rainy days than many of the European cities that have good cycling participation.
• The topography and contours of Cork city. It's a hilly city.

Ever now and then I do cycle to work as I'm fortunate that we've showering facilitates.
But the weather is a big factor for me as it's about a 45min cycle.
Plus, a sunny morning can result in a showery evening in this country

enas

Thanks for those answers. Let me reply to those points one by one.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'd imagine it could change a bit, but there are factors than will restrict change:

• What is the state of the road before you meet a cycle lane.
• What is the state of the cycle lane and is it maintained.

Absolutely. So the solution is not fewer cycle lanes, but the radical opposite: build a dense network of high quality infrastructure.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

• The distance/route to cycle to work.

CSO figures for Cork show that a large proportion of trips to work by car is under the very manageable 4km bar. More importantly, a ridiculous proportion of school run by car is under the 2km bar (from memory, something like 80% under 2km, 50% under 1km!). I'm too lazy to give a link, but basically all the data is available on their website. Regarding school run, see below.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

• Are there showering facilities for people when they arrive at work.

The need for showering is actually a symptom of current conditions more than a real need. Mainstream cycling doesn't really depend on showering facilities, rather it makes this argument obsolete. Cycling shouldn't take more effort than walking. You hardly sweat when you leisurely walk do you? Thinking that cycling has to make you sweat is similar to thinking that walking can only be running or jogging.

High quality infrastructure as in the Netherlands means people can cycle in both a relaxed and efficient way. In a nutshell, Dutch infrastructure gives to cyclists the shortest route from A to B, and allows them to cycle at a constant speed for most of their journeys (remember that it's mostly acceleration that takes effort). In fact, figures from the Netherlands show that the average speed of a typical suit wearing cyclist there is a good bit higher than a typical sporty lycra clad cyclist here. Because the infrastructure allows for this.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

• Many people drop/collect kids to school/creche on the way to/from work, so cycling isn't an option.

Easy answer: link1 link2, to give but a few.

Cargo bikes for infants. Child seats for toddlers. Older and they cycle their own bike. Over 8.6 in average, and they cycle alone to school.

Haven't you noticed how streets become empty and congestion disappears when schools are closed? If anything, school-run should be one of the main arguments for developing cycling, not a limit.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

• The weather. We tend to get more rain and more rainy days than many of the European cities that have good cycling participation.

Old and tired argument. Simply, Amsterdam gets as many raining days as a typical Irish city, and more rain at a time. That doesn't stop them from cycling. In fact, infrastructure makes rain less of an issue.
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/09/how-cyclepaths-make-rain-more-pleasant.html
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/12/so-dutch-do-have-cycle-gear.html

munstermagic11 wrote: »

• The topography and contours of Cork city. It's a hilly city.

Again a false excuse. It's hilly except for the parts where it's not, i.e. most of central and southside Cork really. Hills don't deter people near as much as some would like to think. Indeed, infrastructure is even more helpful in hilly conditions (because of the greater speed differential between cycling and motorised traffic). Also, most of the Netherlands is very flat, and therefore very much exposed to strong winds, which are harder and less predictable to fight against. Finally, electric bikes are very much developed now, and really remove a lot of strain off hills.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ever now and then I do cycle to work as I'm fortunate that we've showering facilitates.
But the weather is a big factor for me as it's about a 45min cycle.
Plus, a sunny morning can result in a showery evening in this country

You're in the 2% minority that does so. Cycle infrastructure is about normalising cycling, making it much more mainstream. Those extra cyclists won't come from nowhere, they will most likely be people who currently drive (remember that Dutch have one of the highest car ownership rates in Europe, and contrarily to common belief, cheap motoring costs, at least outside Amsterdam -- Ireland on the other hand…). So really, even as a motorist, there's no reason to oppose cycling infrastructure. It's part of the overall solution against congestion, and will make driving much more pleasant for those who still be travelling by car (just look at how empty roads are on those Dutch videos at morning rush hour!).

Finally, don't get me wrong, what they're building now in Cork is not what will bring us there. But the case is not to be made against cycling, it's the exact opposite, it should be made for much better infrastructure.

Bacchus

I agree with enas here. Using current stats as a reason against cycle lanes doesn't hold much weight. Until you instigate change, it will never come. The combo of cycle lanes and the new bike scheme (when is that due btw?) should see a change in attitudes. It'll take a few years but it'll get there bit by bit.

The weather & hills are a factor though. I used to cycle to work. It was downhill in the morning and uphill in the evening. If it was dry out, only the home trip left me in need of a shower. If it was wet... pure misery. Still though, I did it and this was when there were no bike lanes and I continued even after I was hit by a car. If the general trend is more bikes in the city, attitudes will change, businesses will change, facilities will change.

Doesn't change my opinion on how it's all being implemented at the moment though.

I'd love to know is there an actual map of the cycle lanes in Cork city available. I highly doubt there is (there isn't even maps of the bus routes FFS) but would be interesting to see.

SpaceTime

I noticed people parked in the new cycle lanes on Sunday on Washington St.

j8wk2feszrnpao

enas wrote: »

Absolutely. So the solution is not fewer cycle lanes, but the radical opposite: build a dense network of high quality infrastructure.

I'm not sure that we can afford that.
Plus, for many of the reasons I described, I don't believe that they would be utilized to warrant the expense.

enas wrote: »

CSO figures for Cork show that a large proportion of trips to work by car is under the very manageable 4km bar.

I'll try and find the data for this, as I find it very hard to believe that a large proportion is true given the backlogs of traffic that we see on the roads.

enas wrote: »

More importantly, a ridiculous proportion of school run by car is under the 2km bar (from memory, something like 80% under 2km, 50% under 1km!).

I'd imagine that this could be true, but the distance isn't always the main factor that affects parents using the car. I don't have kids myself, so I'm only basing this off friends of mine that do have children.

enas wrote: »

The need for showering is actually a symptom of current conditions more than a real need. Mainstream cycling doesn't really depend on showering facilities, rather it makes this argument obsolete.

If you're going to work for 9hrs, then yes, showering is important.
If you've been caught in rain, it's not healthy to be damp for a number of hours at work. So showering facilities are a big factor.

enas wrote: »

High quality infrastructure as in the Netherlands means people can cycle in both a relaxed and efficient way

I haven't been to the Netherlands, but cycling friends mine have stated that it's a very flat country, and it's cities are similar. They've also mentioned that the weather is nowhere near as bad. They always state that Cork/Ireland cannot be compared to it from a cycling point of view (and they do a lot of cycling).

enas wrote: »

Haven't you noticed how streets become empty and congestion disappears when schools are closed? If anything, school-run should be one of the main arguments for developing cycling, not a limit.

I think we all notice the difference.
But I do think that the weather is a limiting factor as I stated above when it comes to arriving at a destination either wet or damp, and not being able to shower or dry off. When I went CIT a number of years ago, I cycled, and I suffered from a lot of colds. When I went back to the CIT later in life, I was driving from Rochestown and barely got sick.

enas wrote: »

Simply, Amsterdam gets as many raining days as a typical Irish city, and more rain at a time.

From fiends of mine who've visited/lived in Amsterdam, they have stated the opposite; that there is a significant less amount of rain.
I found this data on rainfall in both cities showing that this is the case:



[/QUOTE]

enas wrote: »

Again a false excuse. It's hilly except for the parts where it's not, i.e.

Well, it's hilly in the parts that it's hilly! I rented past Luke's Cross at one stage, and that hill was a killer

enas wrote: »

So really, even as a motorist, there's no reason to oppose cycling infrastructure. It's part of the overall solution against congestion, and will make driving much more pleasant for those who still be travelling by car

It certainly can aid motorists, but the way it's currently being implemented isn't beneficial. Removing a driving lane (in streets that are already narrow enough) can also make the situation worse.
Also, the factors I stated do deter people, and it just isn't an option for many people to use a cycling infrastructure (unless for leisure purposes).

I'm for good cycling lanes as it'll benefit me.
But I'm wary that it won't be used to warrant the expense (in a country that needs to ensure we're not wasting our borrowed money) and that cycling won't grow to the desired levels.

I do think that, if done correctly, then cycle lanes would work, to an extent. I just wish they would have a plan rather than dotting cycle lane in the city that currently are not even really used. It feels like they are adding the lanes like they add some traffic lights; spending funds for the sake of it.

I'm very much open to being convinced that it'll work out for us, as less cars, less pollution, less fuel expense, a (even slightly) healthier society; all are aspirations that would make the project worthwhile is done correctly.

Bacchus

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Well, it's hilly in the parts that it's hilly! I rented past Luke's Cross at one stage, and that hill was a killer

This is hill I used to live up on. That cycle nearly broke me

enas is right though, not everyone lives up on a hill. Anyone coming from Blackrock, Blackpool, Douglas, Ballincollig, Glanmire, Glasheen (to name a few areas) don't have many hills to deal with. It's not flat but it's really not that bad either. For a lot of people, given the right lanes and facilities cycling could be a very practical alternative to using a car.

evilivor

SpaceTime wrote: »

I noticed people parked in the new cycle lanes on Sunday on Washington St.

You're allowed park in them if you're "at mass".

j8wk2feszrnpao

Bacchus wrote: »

enas is right though, not everyone lives up on a hill. Anyone coming from Blackrock, Blackpool, Douglas, Ballincollig, Glanmire, Glasheen (to name a few areas) don't have many hills to deal with. It's not flat but it's really not that bad either. For a lot of people, given the right lanes and facilities cycling could be a very practical alternative to using a car.

I agree. And I think these are the areas that they should have targeted with really good cycle lanes. When I lived in Rochestown and wanted to go into town, cycling over the South Link and into the city (coming in by the Marina) was great. Cycling out by Blackrock on the way back was also a good route.

hoodwinked

Bacchus wrote: »

This is hill I used to live up on. That cycle nearly broke me

enas is right though, not everyone lives up on a hill. Anyone coming from Blackrock, Blackpool, Douglas, Ballincollig, Glanmire, Glasheen (to name a few areas) don't have many hills to deal with. It's not flat but it's really not that bad either. For a lot of people, given the right lanes and facilities cycling could be a very practical alternative to using a car.

i can't speak for other area's but try cycling up the Maryborough hill? or clarks hills? or coach hill? or the donnybrook hill? which don't forget after that you have a lovely choice of grange hill or the second hill up through donnybrook,

nevermind the hills inside some estates in douglas which can be so steep that on an icy morning cars cannot even get up them.

Bacchus

hoodwinked wrote: »

i can't speak for other area's but try cycling up the Maryborough hill? or clarks hills? or coach hill? or the donnybrook hill? which don't forget after that you have a lovely choice of grange hill or the second hill up through donnybrook,

nevermind the hills inside some estates in douglas which can be so steep that on an icy morning cars cannot even get up them.

Not everyone in the Douglas or Rochestown area has to go via Maryborough, Donnybrook or Coach Hill. I've cycled up them in the past btw (with the exception of Donnybrook), they are indeed tough hills:)

It is pointless to go pointing out all the hills in Cork. Cork has hills. We know this. The point is, it also has some flat bits too and if they are provided with proper cycle lanes more people may be encouraged to cycle to/from town/work/home.

A bike scheme is never going to satisfy 100% of the population of Cork (or anything close to 100%). That doesn't mean it's not a good idea to put in cycle lanes and introduce city bike schemes. It will work for some people and over time more people will get on board with the idea.

Of course, the plans for this cycle lane scheme seem to have been ripped off of some city council staff member's 2 year old's crayon scribblings. So, they're not exactly doing themselves any favours winning over the public.

hoodwinked

Bacchus wrote: »

Not everyone in the Douglas or Rochestown area has to go via Maryborough, Donnybrook or Coach Hill. I've cycled up them in the past btw (with the exception of Donnybrook), they are indeed tough hills:)

It is pointless to go pointing out all the hills in Cork. Cork has hills. We know this. The point is, it also has some flat bits too and if they are provided with proper cycle lanes more people may be encouraged to cycle to/from town/work/home.

A bike scheme is never going to satisfy 100% of the population of Cork (or anything close to 100%). That doesn't mean it's not a good idea to put in cycle lanes and introduce city bike schemes. It will work for some people and over time more people will get on board with the idea.

Of course, the plans for this cycle lane scheme seem to have been ripped off of some city council staff member's 2 year old's crayon scribblings. So, they're not exactly doing themselves any favours winning over the public.

not everyone no, but a large proportion of people in Douglas will...it's why traffic is so bad here, people will drive to the school 1-2km's away because they can't/won't cycle up those hills on the way home with children and school bags and everything else, it's just always going to be easier to use the car.

when you say the people of douglas will cycle you are talking about the minority on the city side, compared to the majority on the hills around/in Douglas, Rochestown isn't in douglas so it is unfair to say anyone coming from Douglas won't have hills to deal with, they are very much a barrier to cycling in Douglas,

i agree on the bad descion's the cycle lane on the maryborough hill is case and point, more often than not that lane is empty, or you see cyclists taking the rochestown road instead of it, yet they put the cycle lane on the maryborough hill and not the rochestown road??? never-mind the fact right before the hotel you have cyclists thrown into cars paths right on the steepest and most narrow part of the hill which is always a recipe for disaster.

who_me

hoodwinked wrote: »

i can't speak for other area's but try cycling up the Maryborough hill? or clarks hills? or coach hill? or the donnybrook hill? which don't forget after that you have a lovely choice of grange hill or the second hill up through donnybrook,

nevermind the hills inside some estates in douglas which can be so steep that on an icy morning cars cannot even get up them.

Just the rise from Anglesea St. up to St. Finbarrs, or from the Tescos in Douglas up to the Briar Rose are probably two climbs higher than anything in Amsterdam - the typical city mentioned as a model for Cork.

Let's not redraw the topography of the city for the sake of winning an argument - it's probably the hilliest city in the country, apart from the centre island, Blackpool & the reclaimed land along either bank, the rest of the city is hilly.

AugustusMinimus

Could people stop accusing the nay sayers on here of being anti cycling and anti cycle lanes.

The vast majority of us are not. We are simply pointing out the incredible poor and ill thought cycle lanes which Cork City Council have recently implemented. In some places they are dangerous. In others they have taken away parking from residents and finally they are causing traffic chaos for the vast majority of motorists who if people have forgotten, also have to be catered for.

AugustusMinimus

who_me wrote: »

Just the rise from Anglesea St. up to St. Finbarrs, or from the Tescos in Douglas up to the Briar Rose are probably two climbs higher than anything in Amsterdam - the typical city mentioned as a model for Cork.

Let's not redraw the topography of the city for the sake of winning an argument - it's probably the hilliest city in the country, apart from the centre island, Blackpool & the reclaimed land along either bank, the rest of the city is hilly.

Amsterdam is as flat as a pancake. Easily seen why cycling is so popular there.

SpaceTime

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'm not sure that we can afford that.
Plus, for many of the reasons I described, I don't believe that they would be utilized to warrant the expense.


I'll try and find the data for this, as I find it very hard to believe that a large proportion is true given the backlogs of traffic that we see on the roads.


I'd imagine that this could be true, but the distance isn't always the main factor that affects parents using the car. I don't have kids myself, so I'm only basing this off friends of mine that do have children.


If you're going to work for 9hrs, then yes, showering is important.
If you've been caught in rain, it's not healthy to be damp for a number of hours at work. So showering facilities are a big factor.


I haven't been to the Netherlands, but cycling friends mine have stated that it's a very flat country, and it's cities are similar. They've also mentioned that the weather is nowhere near as bad. They always state that Cork/Ireland cannot be compared to it from a cycling point of view (and they do a lot of cycling).


I think we all notice the difference.
But I do think that the weather is a limiting factor as I stated above when it comes to arriving at a destination either wet or damp, and not being able to shower or dry off. When I went CIT a number of years ago, I cycled, and I suffered from a lot of colds. When I went back to the CIT later in life, I was driving from Rochestown and barely got sick.


From fiends of mine who've visited/lived in Amsterdam, they have stated the opposite; that there is a significant less amount of rain.
I found this data on rainfall in both cities showing that this is the case:







Well, it's hilly in the parts that it's hilly! I rented past Luke's Cross at one stage, and that hill was a killer


It certainly can aid motorists, but the way it's currently being implemented isn't beneficial. Removing a driving lane (in streets that are already narrow enough) can also make the situation worse.
Also, the factors I stated do deter people, and it just isn't an option for many people to use a cycling infrastructure (unless for leisure purposes).

I'm for good cycling lanes as it'll benefit me.
But I'm wary that it won't be used to warrant the expense (in a country that needs to ensure we're not wasting our borrowed money) and that cycling won't grow to the desired levels.

I do think that, if done correctly, then cycle lanes would work, to an extent. I just wish they would have a plan rather than dotting cycle lane in the city that currently are not even really used. It feels like they are adding the lanes like they add some traffic lights; spending funds for the sake of it.

I'm very much open to being convinced that it'll work out for us, as less cars, less pollution, less fuel expense, a (even slightly) healthier society; all are aspirations that would make the project worthwhile is done correctly.

Yeah I think we tend to overestimate how wet Ireland is.

Parts of Scandinavia, especially Norway is a lot wetter.

Bergen for example averages 250 days per year.

NL and Belgium aren't too dry either nor is Northern or Western France.

A lot of coastal Europe is actually quite wet.

Bacchus

hoodwinked wrote: »

not everyone no, but a large proportion of people in Douglas will...it's why traffic is so bad here, people will drive to the school 1-2km's away because they can't/won't cycle up those hills on the way home with children and school bags and everything else, it's just always going to be easier to use the car.

when you say the people of douglas will cycle you are talking about the minority on the city side, compared to the majority on the hills around/in Douglas, Rochestown isn't in douglas so it is unfair to say anyone coming from Douglas won't have hills to deal with, they are very much a barrier to cycling in Douglas,

I only mentioned Rochestown cause Coach Hill is out that way... though probably not technically Rochestown.

As for the rest of Douglas. Yes it is moreso the town side that would benefit from cycle lanes in terms of cycling in to the city.

The point I'm making stands though. Cork city and suburbs stands to benefit from a proper cycle lane infrastructure despite the hills. We'll be the fittest city in Ireland

hoodwinked wrote: »

i agree on the bad descion's the cycle lane on the maryborough hill is case and point, more often than not that lane is empty, or you see cyclists taking the rochestown road instead of it, yet they put the cycle lane on the maryborough hill and not the rochestown road??? never-mind the fact right before the hotel you have cyclists thrown into cars paths right on the steepest and most narrow part of the hill which is always a recipe for disaster.

And this typifies what a lot of people on this thread are not happy about. No planning when putting in lanes.