Minder indoctrinating children

LegacyUser

We have two kids who are minded full time.
My wife found out the minder has been bringing them to mass from a neighbour who saw them there.
The minder has also been reading religious stories like Noah and Christmas nativity books.
She doesn't see the harm. And says she goes to mass every day and other parents have never had a problem with this.
We are atheist, and don't want our kids exposed to this crap. The older one has been talking about holy God and whatnot, this should have been a clue.
The problem is the children are very happy there and it is very convenient arrangement in all other respects.
What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

January

Ask her to stop bringing them, if she says no then you can either carry on with the arrangement or find another minder.

diveout

I'd fire her.

Bassfish

Whoever pays the piper calls the tune, you're paying for her to provide a service that does not include religious indoctrination. Broach it with her in a friendly but unambiguous way that you as parents would prefer to teach the children about religion/spirituality or whatever and you'd both prefer if it was left to you. Say you know she meant well and praise the job she's doing in all other aspects and she should be grown up enough to accept that.

eviltwin

Does she know you are atheist? Could it be just a simple misunderstanding. If not I would either demand that she stops or find an alternative arrangement. She shouldn't be going to mass while she is working anyway imo, her job is to mind children, if she wants to go to mass she should make arrangements to do so off the clock.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

eviltwin wrote: »

Does she know you are atheist? Could it be just a simple misunderstanding. If not I would either demand that she stops or find an alternative arrangement. She shouldn't be going to mass while she is working anyway imo, her job is to mind children, if she wants to go to mass she should make arrangements to do so off the clock.

Yes I agree, how would she know you don't want them going to mass if you have not discussed it.

If you are going to talk to her about it, don't refer to it as 'crap' just because it is something you don't believe in, you should still be respectful of her opinion.

Big Bag of Chips

If the convenience of having her as a minder outweighs your reservations about the religion, then you can use this to start teaching your children: Some people believe - but some people don't. Me and your mam/dad don't believe in it. The stories are just stories, like Snow White, Cinderella and The 3 little pigs.

It depends on what you agreed would be the childminder's daily routine. Some people prefer for the kids to be minded only in the childminder's home, doing arts, crafts, baking etc (like in a creche) others prefer for their children to experience the daily life of the childminder.. going to the post office, into town, calling into Joan down the road for a cup of tea etc.

It might be time to set out your terms. She may not agree to them if she has always incorporated the kids she minds into her daily routine. If she doesn't.. that's when you have a decision to make.

amkin25

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the militant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

Roquentin

amkin25 wrote: »

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the millitant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

"Aliens, now there's something that might just be possible," Father Ted

DM addict

annoyedannoyed wrote: »

We have two kids who are minded full time.
My wife found out the minder has been bringing them to mass from a neighbour who saw them there.
The minder has also been reading religious stories like Noah and Christmas nativity books.
She doesn't see the harm. And says she goes to mass every day and other parents have never had a problem with this.
We are atheist, and don't want our kids exposed to this crap. The older one has been talking about holy God and whatnot, this should have been a clue.
The problem is the children are very happy there and it is very convenient arrangement in all other respects.
What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

Be straight with her - tell her you're atheist, you want your kids to be raised atheist, and don't want her to teach any religion. To be honest, I'd have expected her to let you know that they were going to mass every day - that's fair enough if she wants to do it, but she's having a serious impact on how your children are raised.

Hopefully she'll be amenable to changing the routine. If not, you're going to have to look at other childminders, or find a way around it. I'd be looking for another childminder.

How many other kids is she minding, or is it just yours?

vitani

I'd be more concerned that this was happening every day and never mentioned to ye. I hear about everything without even asking - from shopping trips to trips to the playground. I wouldn't trust a minder who never even mentioned a daily Mass visit in passing.

pwurple

Well, if she is bringing a bunch of children, she can't exactly leave yours at home. You might need to find another childminder if you want to avoid it. She probably doesn't see any harm in stories and songs.

I bring my own kids to church nearly every day on mat leave because they really seem to love it. (Which is weird, because I hated being dragged to mass as a kid). Think it must be the singing or the rituals of it? Weekday mass is way faster than sunday anyway. Seems to suit the children's attention span better. I alternate it between the anglican and RC, both are near us. Don't think i'd be too bothered if a childminder was bringing them to a muslim or jewish ritual on top of it either. All cultural education in my eyes.

Ps, my strongly athiest friends still do noah toys etc, they just call it animal boat.

As it bothers you, you just have to discuss it, but I wouldn't expect her to change her routine on it if there are others involved. she probably finds that the children enjoy it and considers it more wholesome than plonking them in front of peppa pig.

Orion

amkin25 wrote: »

This post seem's like a load of rubbish to me the militant atheist vs the militant catholic lol.

Be constructive or don't post please. This type of comment is not helpful.

Hannibal Smith

I would do my NUT if this happened to me. It is not okay to expose other people's children to your beliefs. As a childminder she needs to tell you this stuff. I'm catholic, my kids are catholic, but if I thought my childminder was bringing my kids to mass on a daily basis I would flip out. It's my business how I do or don't deal with their religious instruction.

Whether the other parents have a problem with it or not isn't your problem. You have your private dealings with the woman and you are entitled to ask her not to bring your kids to mass.

Big Bag of Chips

I wouldn't be going in all guns blazing though! No need to mention the word "crap" or doing your nut. This is something the minder is doing that you would prefer she didn't do.

Lots of people of a certain age (Im guessing she's of the older generation?) still go to mass every morning. And its the same as going to the shop for them. They don't see it as anything out of the ordinary.

So, like a mature adult, you should maturely talk to the minder and tell her you would prefer that she not bring your children to mass.

Between you, you then decide what happens next. She either stops going to mass every morning in order to stay on as your minder, or she decides she must/has to/wants to go to mass every morning and then you find a different minder.

No need for a "guns blazing" attitude to this at all!

eviltwin

Don't make a big deal of it, it could simply be that she has just assumed you would be okay with it. Catholic is kinda the default religion here so she might not have thought to clear it with you first. Any child minder worth their salt won't do anything that the parents are not happy with so give her a chance but its a big deal, I'm atheist and I would be very annoyed if someone disrespected my beliefs and took a child to church or a mosque or other place of faith on a regular basis, its one thing to bring a child in to show them but to make it a habit is crossing a line that a childminder has no right to cross. Her job is to mind your children, not be their religious guardian.

Dyr

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I'm catholic, my kids are catholic

If someone said "I'm fine gael, my kids are fine gael" then people would find that quite weird

amkin25

Orion wrote: »

Be constructive or don't post please. This type of comment is not helpful.

I was simply pointing out that i don't think this is real,while it is entirely possible, i would be willing to bet your life that it is not,and people are simply being led up the garden path by this poster.

Hannibal Smith

Bambi wrote: »

If someone said "I'm fine gael, my kids are fine gael" then people would find that quite weird

I'm sure they might?

Big Bag of Chips

Bringing your child to mass every morning, or not, is not something you as a parent would think you'd have to bring up at the interview stage.

Same way as the woman who has always gone to mass every morning would think there's nothing wrong with bringing the kids too.

All that is needed here is a bit of clarification from both sides.

Chattastrophe!

I just find it very strange that she never once mentioned bringing them to mass. You'd think it would happen to come up in conversation occasionally at the end of the day, unless she knew you wouldn't approve so was purposely trying to hide it. Also it's very strange your children never mentioned it - had she told them not to?

annoyedannoyed wrote: »

What can we do to stop the minder bringing the children to mass. We are on holidays at the moment and have no family to help out, creches are too expensive.

It should absolutely be as simple as asking her not to. You're the parent, you should be able to tell her what to do and what not to do with your children. If she doesn't respect your wishes, are you really comfortable leaving your children with her?

While I'm not religious I wouldn't necessarily refuse to have my child brought to mass, however I would expect to be told about it in advance. It's not even the "indoctrination" that's an issue for me here - it's the secrecy around it, especially if she asked the children not to tell you.

Neyite

How long has this been going on? What concerns me is that she deliberately omitted to tell you about a place she brings your child to regularly. It would cause me to wonder what else does she do or say that she hides. Its a breach of trust.

If I was minding a child, I generally fill the parent in on what we did for the day, nap times, what they ate, where we went, and when my relatives mind my child they do likewise. She omitted it because she knew you wouldnt like it, would disagree with her instructing your child in religion but chose to do it her way anyway.

Is this a minder or a relative minding the child? How you deal with it may depend on that.

nikpmup

I would be livid if this was happening to my child. It's not as simple as likening it to bringing the child to the shop or something equally as benign - it's bringing the child to a place where ideology is taught/practiced. That is solely the parent's responsibility, and IMO the childminder has no right to do such a thing. If the OP had said the childminder was bringing the children to, say, Scientologist or Moonies meetings daily, would it be seen as harmless? No. Just because it is a religion that we are ''used'' to, it doesn't make it okay. And, as Chattastrophe says, it's the secrecy around it that is more worrying. A childminder is paid to do a job; that job does not include deciding what spiritual direction the child should take. For the record, I am atheist, but I have great respect for faiths of all descriptions, and if my childminder wanted to go to mass daily I would make as much effort as I could to accommodate it on the proviso that my son wasn't included.

pwurple

nikpmup wrote: »

I would be livid if this was happening to my child. It's not as simple as likening it to bringing the child to the shop or something equally as benign - it's bringing the child to a place where ideology is taught/practiced.

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

LegacyUser

The schools that do most of the indoctrination these days and if OP's kids are heading to an educate together school the childminder is way out of line. If they're christened and going to a catholic primary school maybe it's no harm to introduce them to the environment?

Big Bag of Chips

pwurple wrote: »

Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

Possibly the best bit of advice in the entire thread.

And a line that should probably be stickied at the top of the forum!

diveout

pwurple wrote: »

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

Try to understand, that for an atheist or secularist, this would be like your childminder bringing your kids to mosque or temple and have them practising Islam or Judaism without your knowledge or consent.

It is really really not ok. I would fire her on the spot and I mean it. It is so obviously a transgression of boundaries and unprofessional.

nikpmup

pwurple wrote: »

Heh. Ain't that a sign of the times!

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself.


A simple bit of communication is all that's needed with the childminder, as nearly every poster has pointed out. Hold the indignant outrage and just have a chat about it.

That's fine, and if that is your ideology then by all means raise your children as you see fit. Personally, I think bringing a child to a shopping centre and teaching them that they don't need to buy everything they see is a valuable lesson too, but we're not talking about shopping centres. We're talking about religion, and it is solely a parents prerogative to teach religion or raise their child with or without faith. If the childminder had brought the child to mass once or twice as part of a varied day-to-day structure, then yes, have a chat about it and that should be the end of the matter, but she didn't. She brought the children to mass daily, and then continued to reinforce religious ideology at home by reading bible stories. That is way, way over the line, IMO, and not harmless or just something she does to pass the time. It is religious instruction, and the fact that the OP's children are now asking about god is proof of that. Would you be really okay if I were to bring your children to a mosque everyday and then read passages from the Koran to them and keep it secret from you? I doubt it.

MagicMarker

Felix Plain Rumba wrote: »

Yes I agree, how would she know you don't want them going to mass if you have not discussed it.

This really annoys me, if they haven't discussed it then why does the minder assume there would be no problem? Religion is a personal thing, the minder has no right to impose her religiosity onto the children of her employers without discussing it with them.

Personally, I think I'd fire her. Yes you can bring it up with her and she may say she'll never do it again, but you have no idea what she'll be telling the children when you're not there, if she's as devout as she sounds then she'd feel almost obligated by her faith to "spread the word".

I'd get rid.

nikpmup

erichoone wrote: »

The schools that do most of the indoctrination these days and if OP's kids are heading to an educate together school the childminder is way out of line. If they're christened and going to a catholic primary school maybe it's no harm to introduce them to the environment?

It's a parents prerogative to introduce them to the environment if they so wish, not a childminders.

MagicMarker

pwurple wrote: »

I would have a much bigger problem with children being brought to shopping centers and supermarkets on a daily basis. Consumerism being 'indoctrinated', as we're playing with that word. Quite far from benign in my eyes. It's easy enough to claim that the ideology of mass plasticy consumption is being taught/practiced there, if you want to continue the comparison. I'd take cultural education in a historic community building over that myself....

Just.... wow.

Preferring religious indoctrination to shopping in Tesco, an interesting perspective.