Irish Independent article on racism against Irish

jank

So in other words the best you can do is say that it may be misreported and attempt to fudge your original claim

Given the way Irish culture is so insincere I would take a guess that if anything it's under reported there. Australians generally aren't too shy to talk about such thing in my experience unlike home

catbear

jank wrote: »

So in other words the best you can do is say that it may be misreported and attempt to fudge your original claim

Where in my claim did I mention rate? Just to clarify I was talking about attitude towards suicide as exemplified by this crass and uncouth offering. Getting into rate comparisons makes it sound like a contest, which it isn't but however having to explain that again only verifies my point about attitudes.

For example any time my local train has been cancelled/delayed I'll find out later that it was a suicide yet it's not reported at all in the media, not even as an accident. One time a transit official flippantly told me on a line notorious for suicide that "the train will be running as soon as the mess is cleared up", again it never made the news.

As for the aboriginal suicide rate I've heard it being described as "not their problem" by some Western Australians channeling Lang Hancock.

willfarmerman

In fairness it's a non story. The real story is that the recent generation of irish in Australia are are creating a disproportionate amount of trouble over there, ie. drinking and fighting.the hardworking reputation that we had built up is being eroded. My brother over there finds it quite hard to find any where that will rent a house to him and his crew. The Celtic tiger crew that we exported are less than angelic now.

catbear

willfarmerman wrote: »

In fairness it's a non story. The real story is that the recent generation of irish in Australia are are creating a disproportionate amount of trouble over there, ie. drinking and fighting.the hardworking reputation that we had built up is being eroded. My brother over there finds it quite hard to find any where that will rent a house to him and his crew. The Celtic tiger crew that we exported are less than angelic now.

Australia has had racism issues long before our celtic kittens washed up here.

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

Read back and you'll see it was in response in to Old Aussies insensitivity towards someone expressing their anguish and regret.

By the look of it you have ended up with a Hook in your mouth after a fishing expedition by this bloke.

I thought most long term posters on this forum knew that Old Aussie and his Irish counterpart JONJO were two characters that Jim Henson himself would be envious off, barely tolerated but for their comedic value....

catbear

Thanks Aussie, suicide touched my life but I never saw any humour in it.

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

Thanks Aussie, suicide touched my life but I never saw any humour in it.

I don't think he intended humour, some people are just complete Langers.

Lucena

FURET wrote: »

So to be honest, if someone actually speaks with a turty-tree-and-a-turd accent, they had best ditch it and learn to speak in a clearer, more neutral way. Even in Ireland it marks someone out as unsophisticated. Patrick Kavanagh bemoaned his own "thick-tongued mumble".

I'm not saying it's right that people should have to change their accents, but you have to adjust somewhat to new environments, and if you're a walking stereotype in terms of accent and drink and what have you, then unfortunately you give thick people in the host country plenty of rods to beat you with.

If people can understand me, I don't see why I should change my accent.
Sophisticated? What does that mean? I speak with a 'turty-tree' accent, strangely enough it didn't stop me getting through university and actually being able to get a job and become a productive member of society, despite my handicap.

Load of inferiority complex boll0x.

justback83

I find it funny that some people have lived in Australia and have never witnessed this! I lived there for 4 years and worked in a few different restaurants. 2 of these were fine-dining restaurants and the clientelle were predominantly upper class. Every single night I was guaranteed some racist remark. I was once told that I had a lovely accent but then asked why Irish people say the F word so much. She then proceeded to say the F word to me every time I went to the table!!Australians generally consider Irish as the butt of jokes (much like the Kerryman jokes...). Their attitude towards Aboriginals is shocking!

AngryHippie

catbear wrote: »

For example any time my local train has been cancelled/delayed I'll find out later that it was a suicide yet it's not reported at all in the media, not even as an accident. One time a transit official flippantly told me on a line notorious for suicide that "the train will be running as soon as the mess is cleared up", again it never made the news.

Are you exaggerating there? I'm not sure what trains you catch, but anytime they are delayed here, its reported here https://twitter.com/QueenslandRail and they don't put the gory details out there whether its a suicide, or a little old lady parked on a level crossing until next of kin have been notified etc.
As to reporting it in the media, that is truly a double edged sword. If it is constantly discussed in the media, then some people who understand less about it, get a little bit immune to it and accept it, rather than increasing awareness of the problem, you will create acceptance. While that will have the benefit of reducing the taboo of the discussion, it will also make it a little bit normal, and I think it is dangerous to consider a suicidal mindset as being something "normal" its a very unsafe state of mind to be in, and one which needs to dealt with carefully and swiftly, rather than normalized.

Raising awareness of it is a different issue altogether, and to be honest programs like ASIST, Samaritans, Lifeline, Beyond Blue and the like are probably more useful than some twat journalist or TV presenter talking scutter about it.

Please don't think for a second that I am dismissing the importance of the subject, nor the scale of the problem, but it is best handled with professional assistance, and loving support rather than bleating in the media and a constant stream of soundbites from the usual hacks.

jackbhoy

catbear wrote: »

Where in my claim did I mention rate? Just to clarify I was talking about attitude towards suicide as exemplified by this crass and uncouth offering. Getting into rate comparisons makes it sound like a contest, which it isn't but however having to explain that again only verifies my point about attitudes.

For example any time my local train has been cancelled/delayed I'll find out later that it was a suicide yet it's not reported at all in the media, not even as an accident. One time a transit official flippantly told me on a line notorious for suicide that "the train will be running as soon as the mess is cleared up", again it never made the news.

As for the aboriginal suicide rate I've heard it being described as "not their problem" by some Western Australians channeling Lang Hancock.

Mate, the non reporting is part of a code based on credible and extensive research that frequent reporting "normalises" suicide and has been shown to actually drive increases in suicide rate. You may remember some towns in England and Wales where there were clusters of young people taking their own lives in extraordinary numbers within isolated areas.

If you google it you will find tonnes of research out there. It's actually one of few good codes I believe media follow, or self govern on here although it doesn't make up for all the other junk they publish.

Cooperspale

Yes, suicide is not so reported in Australian media because that is the official code/approach taken by government and non government agencies & the media so as to not normalize it. It is a different approach & can seem almost alien coming from Ireland but as Jackbhoy says it is a proven approach & works

mandrake04

justback83 wrote: »

I find it funny that some people have lived in Australia and have never witnessed this! I lived there for 4 years and worked in a few different restaurants. 2 of these were fine-dining restaurants and the clientelle were predominantly upper class. Every single night I was guaranteed some racist remark. I was once told that I had a lovely accent but then asked why Irish people say the F word so much. She then proceeded to say the F word to me every time I went to the table!!Australians generally consider Irish as the butt of jokes (much like the Kerryman jokes...). Their attitude towards Aboriginals is shocking!

Well I lived here 10 years, the only times I have been racially abused I suppose was when I was in Alice springs I was called a 'white cúnt' and when I was doing my gun licence I had to do a firearms handling course the instructor who was actually a cop made some remark about the IRA.... both instances didn't even bother me.

I some times get that come again look when talking to people as they didn't expect the accent and just missed what I said, I usually just say 'I know I have an accent' and repeat it more slowly I don't get anything more than that and I don't have the turd handicap.


Oh the only other times someone mentioned something at work was the drunk Irish People on Bondi rescue who needed subtitles and why do I not talk like them which I replied because I'm not drunk and I also had to explain about Big gypsy weddings and the whole story of the difference to mainstream Irish & travellers.

But if someone mentioned about eating potatoes to me I think I would just laugh in their face for being fúcking pathetic, it that ****ing lame. It like saying to a kiwi that he's a sheep shagger it's so doh!!! How you could be annoyed over that I never heard such a load of softcock dribble in my life, it's embarrassing.

I'm not saying that there's no racism but as long as it's not directed at me or anyone in my company it doesn't bother me, it's a free country if someone wants to be racist fair enough it doesn't bother me here anymore than the racism in Ireland.

Attitude to Aboriginals is similar to the attitude to Travellers in Ireland which funny enough seems to be an acceptable form racism there.

jank

catbear wrote: »

Where in my claim did I mention rate?


As for the aboriginal suicide rate I've heard it being described as "not their problem" by some Western Australians channeling Lang Hancock.

You mention that Australia has a 'huge suicide culture', whatever that means. Reading it plainly it would mean that there is a higher rate of suicide here than elsewhere. So please elaborate by what you mean as a 'huge suicide culture' that differs from other countries.

You are reading too much into the suicide rate of Aboriginals as it correlates similarly to other countries that have minorities, for example members of the UK traveller population is 6 times more like to commit suicide than a settled UK person. These factors are more to do with substance abuse and relative poverty than anything else.

Again, nothing really unique to Australia which was my original objection.

jedi1997

Here is my view.

In some ways it is lazy thinking, to see white Australians as being racist.
The more you understand something the less you hate it.
Indeed some of what goes on here would be unacceptable in most modern western countries.
My argument is being slightly racist it is what makes Australia Australia.
Yes it will change, but not in my life time and it may be a long time.

Irish people get jibes, yes but we are way down the list.
However as new settlers we feel like outsiders, some of us do anyway.
We expect Australians to treat us as equals. Sorry we're not.
Imagine being Asian or Indian here I think you may think you have a better deal.

A good movie is up on youtube, Wake in Fright it begins to explain where this
country grew from. Australia was and underneath still is a hard country,
you can forget that living in the city and what it was like even 40 or 50 years ago.

There is an aggression here. People will push you to see your reaction.
An american director made the movie said he spent weeks in a town in Broken Hill.
No or very few women lived in the town at the time, every night there would be fist fights in the bars.
After a while he realised all the men were looking for was physical affection.

It is a strange land, I try and go with the tide. At times it is hard and I feel homesick.
Ireland and Irish people and society can not point fingers at anyone.
We are guests and Australia took us in for that I'm grateful.

Gotta shrug your shoulders sometimes. Being overly sensitive seems to be "unAustralian" (lovely term), if it bothers you
may have not such a happy time here.

I'm still here and try to be more thick skinned.

seachto7

jedi1997 wrote: »

Here is my view.


An american director made the movie said he spent weeks in a town in Broken Hill.
No or very few women lived in the town at the time, every night there would be fist fights in the bars.
After a while he realised all the men were looking for was physical affection.

It was a gay bar then, full of "bears"?

AngryHippie

jedi1997 wrote: »

Here is my view.


I'm still here and try to be more thick skinned.

Very honest post. Fair Dinkum:pac:

The Aussie

seachto7 wrote: »

It was a gay bar then, full of "bears"?

Does not compute

Are you Homophobic?

AngryHippie

The Aussie wrote: »

Does not compute

Are you Homophobic?

I think it might have been a Ninja edit.:rolleyes:
I wouldn't worry about it.

As if there is such a thing as a gay bar in outback Oz, with all them cowboys and miners out there.:pac: :pac:

jedi1997

Sorry my stream of consciousness can meander a tad.
Unfortunately internet forums have allowed me to exercise such a vice.

Aussies and Irish.......

Everyone just needs a big hug at the end of the day.

res ipsa

old_aussie wrote: »

Gaffney said .........."I’ve spent 10 years in Australia trying to better myself and in the space of one night everything can be taken away from you.”

Who took what away from him?

His life?

markymark21

The Aussies who try and give the large ones making smart comments are generally very insecure I've found!

One of the Aussie chefs in work (who is a country bumpkin) tried to take the piss out of my accent is work I started ripping the piss out of his accent saying he sounds like a seagull. He then got upset when everyone was laughing and nearly walked out in tears!

The Aussie accent is easy game for ridicule so people shouldn't be scared to give as good as they get when the 'banter' starts

catbear

I'm glad someone brought up Wake in Fright, the book is excellent too. My favorite line describing the outback as where “a man felt he had either to drink or blow his brains out,”

old_aussie

hussey wrote: »

I used to work for a pretty famous finance house and for st Patricks day they (or is it dey) decided to host a 'funniest Irish accent' competition and wanted me to judge it, I refused on the grounds that they would never host a funniest Indian or Chinese accent competition. But another Irish guy judged it 'sure it's only a laugh' was his reason.
I regret not going to HR

If I went to HR evertime someone called out "skippy" and made kangaroo noises, or sang out "hey convict"

I'd never get any work done or got on with life.

catbear

old_aussie wrote: »

If I went to HR evertime someone called out "skippy" and made kangaroo noises, or sang out "hey convict"

I'd never get any work done or got on with life.

Do you partake in this banter because if it's really affecting you then you can do something about it. For what it's worth I had to deal with unsocial behaviour that sought to isolate me in work, once I instigated the appropriate work place legislation the problem ended.

pa_

True story, I once had to give evidence in court and the judge needed somebody to "interpret for the court" what I was saying. I don't even have that thick an accent at all by Irish standards..

The Aussie

catbear wrote: »

My favorite line describing the outback as where “a man felt he had either to drink or blow his brains out,”

Are you still harping on about Suicide???

It's saying more about you than anyone or anything else at this stage.

swimming in a sea

AngryHippie wrote: »

Yeah right you would.

A 6ft 4 Maori boy calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?
A Lebanese bloke with his ten mates calls you paddy you're gonna deck him?
A big Mining town Ocker calls you paddy and you're gonna deck him ?

You'll be a little fish in a real big pond over here, and you'll be a pretty sore fish if you don't learn how to deal with folks without "decking" them.

Ask any of the hundreds of "hard men" that have had their wings clipped over here and they'll let you know.:rolleyes:

I don't know if others feel the same but to be racially insulted by a Maori, a Lebanese Aussie is just water of a ducks back for me, I'll only be annoyed by a white person making a racial comment towards me.

jackbhoy

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I don't know if others feel the same but to be racially insulted by a Maori, a Lebanese Aussie is just water of a ducks back for me, I'll only be annoyed by a white person making a racial comment towards me.

So only white people can be really racist?

catbear

jackbhoy wrote: »

So only white people can be really racist?

If the white person shares the same heritage (white european) then it's not racism, it's just plain old begrudgery.