Spring lamb prices

charolais0153

razor8 wrote: »

Have to agree with lambman. For a lowland mid season flock you need to have at least 80% of your lambs gone by tipping time or else your effecting the next years lamb crop. Unless your very lowly stocked the costs just don’t add up

That's very true, but doesn't mean the store man can't buy them.

Will Brexit stop the flow of UK hoggets inwards?

Dinzee Conlee

razor8 wrote: »

Have to agree with lambman. For a lowland mid season flock you need to have at least 80% of your lambs gone by tipping time or else your effecting the next years lamb crop. Unless your very lowly stocked the costs just don’t add up

It’s in your last sentence Razor...

If you’re highly stocked, then it’s in your interest to get lambs off ASAP, as the grass will be used/needed for other animals... so pushing them on makes sense, maybe forward creeping the lambs, fertiliser, spraying, etc...

If you very extensively stocked, no creep, no fertiliser, plenty grass, then why be in a hurry to sell lambs probably into a glut in the late autumn, when you can let them run on and maybe sell them around Christmas or after... if you have the grass, the only risk you’re taking is one of them dying...

The overall view from everyone in the farming industry is one of ‘reducing numbers’ so what does this mean for lamb industry I wonder?

Store lamb producers have the same choices to make, just they sell at a different point in the market.
The store lamb might return as much profit as a fat lamb, if sold at the right time/price...

razor8

charolais0153 wrote: »

That's very true, but doesn't mean the store man can't buy them.

Will Brexit stop the flow of UK hoggets inwards?

Obviously not but unless it’s a terrible year I’m aiming to finish all lambs off farm so don’t have stores to sell

razor8

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

It’s in your last sentence Razor...

If you’re highly stocked, then it’s in your interest to get lambs off ASAP, as the grass will be used/needed for other animals... so pushing them on makes sense, maybe forward creeping the lambs, fertiliser, spraying, etc...

If you very extensively stocked, no creep, no fertiliser, plenty grass, then why be in a hurry to sell lambs probably into a glut in the late autumn, when you can let them run on and maybe sell them around Christmas or after... if you have the grass, the only risk you’re taking is one of them dying...

The overall view from everyone in the farming industry is one of ‘reducing numbers’ so what does this mean for lamb industry I wonder?

Store lamb producers have the same choices to make, just they sell at a different point in the market.
The store lamb might return as much profit as a fat lamb, if sold at the right time/price...

But if you keep working on a low cost basis eventually the land will become unproductive if spreading no lime or fertilizer. You can’t do that every year

The store trade has been volatile for as long as I can remember. You never get 3 or 4 years the same. Last spring was a fluke for hogget prices as factories must have been tied into contracts. They didn’t get caught out this year

Lambman

Dinznee conlee so if your lambs aren't ready at tipping time you run them on till Xmas or early spring on grass only?

Dinzee Conlee

Lambman wrote: »

Dinznee conlee so if your lambs aren't ready at tipping time you run them on till Xmas or early spring on grass only?

I dont lamb any ewes anymore. I dont have the numbers to justify taking the time off.
Buy stores, sell some fat, sell some for breeding hog, keep my holidays for the family

Have access to stubble & winter grazing, so they run on that for the winter

Simple enough system...

Dinzee Conlee

razor8 wrote: »

But if you keep working on a low cost basis eventually the land will become unproductive if spreading no lime or fertilizer. You can’t do that every year

The store trade has been volatile for as long as I can remember. You never get 3 or 4 years the same. Last spring was a fluke for hogget prices as factories must have been tied into contracts. They didn’t get caught out this year

Very true Razor re lime and fertilser, but maintaining is different to driving on grass in a high stocking system...

And yep, store trade is always up and down, and selling hog in the spring can be hit and miss as well...

I dont disagree with you re a high % of your lambs should be gone before you put the ram in to start all over again...

But, my point is not everyone needs to push their lambs to have their lambs factoried by Sept.
Similarly, it might be easier overall to sell some as stores in Sept
Or - if you have plenty grass, they might feel its as easy to leave them run on, and sell them come Christmas or Spring time...
All depends on what your system is, what your limitations are...

Historically, the man that was here before me, would always have had a few lambs to sell at Christmas. The money they made was given to the wife, to pay for Christmas...
I know people talk about cashflow, and managing money and all that, but you know what, I like the idea of selling a few lambs to pay for Christmas...

Dickie10

but surely if you want decent cash flow would u not creep feed yer lambs and drive them on get the good price from mid may mid june and make room for more store in late july, thats what i do. is it not a numbers game if your margins are tight?

Dinzee Conlee

Dickie10 wrote: »

but surely if you want decent cash flow would u not creep feed yer lambs and drive them on get the good price from mid may mid june and make room for more store in late july, thats what i do. is it not a numbers game if your margins are tight?

If that system works for you - go for it...

When I was small, my grandfather was one of those spend the minimum, you cant lose what you haven't spent kinda mentality...
As I get older, I see the wisdom in it

So I suppose I am there now, or well on the way anyways Work as minimum a system I can - both in terms of time input and money input...

Lambman

If I was in your position then I'd still have ewes running with a ram and sell them in lamb after scanning end a janruary so you won't have till feed them meal bound till leave more profit than running store lambs on grass only and less chance a losing a ewe than lamb.

kk.man

Lambman wrote: »

If I was in your position then I'd still have ewes running with a ram and sell them in lamb after scanning end a janruary so you won't have till feed them meal bound till leave more profit than running store lambs on grass only and less chance a losing a ewe than lamb.

Scanned in lamb ewes were making very poor money all spring. Very few went over 140 per head (the ones I saw). No money in that game.

Dinzee Conlee

Lambman wrote: »

If I was in your position then I'd still have ewes running with a ram and sell them in lamb after scanning end a janruary so you won't have till feed them meal bound till leave more profit than running store lambs on grass only and less chance a losing a ewe than lamb.

I dunno, you're very tied in. Like, you kinda have to sell em, or else you lamb them...

At least with the store lambs, you can factory a few of em if the price is good, or leave em run on and sell in the summer...

When would you buy the ewes - buy em as hog in Aug / Sept, then buy a ram to put with them, leave the ram run with them, scan them, and sell them then?
If hog prices were good, and in-lamb ewes weren't great, you could lose money on em...
At least with store lambs, if you buy em right, and keep them on grass, you shouldn't lose money on them...

I dunno Lambman, its not a system I ever considered to be honest.

Ard_MC

razor8 wrote: »

Have to agree with lambman. For a lowland mid season flock you need to have at least 80% of your lambs gone by tipping time or else your effecting the next years lamb crop. Unless your very lowly stocked the costs just don’t add up

But i wonder what are the % of lambs being killed in the period jan to april coming out of a mid season lowland flock?

Id put a bet on the majority of lambs would be either 50 or 100% hill breedin them.

orm0nd

was talking to a guy earlier and he was saying he has well over 100 hoggetts left and finding it hard to get them shifted, with heavy spring lambs coming on stream most are switching over.

I'm afraid I didn't express much sympathy for his problems.

Willfarman

Lambman wrote: »

Willfarman I agree with some off what your saying but I strongly disagree with you saying it's more sustainable and would like you till explain it till me. How can keeping a lamb 11 months be sustainable in the slightest? If you can't breed a lamb till be away before that age your doing it wrong... If you haven't enough ground till get lambs away before that age your doing it wrong... If you can't work out how much it costs you till keep a lamb for that long your doing it wrong... It's people like you keeping lambs till this time off year that's ruining the spring market for lambs and giving factories a safety net till do what they like.

The months of the winter have lambs utilizing land stubble catch crops and grass that would otherwise be lost to frost or just wasted . They are generally from upland flocks with the stragglers and late lambers from lowland flocks. The upland sheep have obvious ecological purpose and utilizing the otherwise idle lowlands also has merit for soil management and grassland management

. The most of my lambs are sold before Christmas so I’m guilty of adding to the late summer autumn glut just like the majority of lowland suppliers!

Siamsa Sessions

orm0nd wrote: »

was talking to a guy earlier and he was saying he has well over 100 hoggetts left and finding it hard to get them shifted, with heavy spring lambs coming on stream most are switching over.

I'm afraid I didn't express much sympathy for his problems.

At a farm meeting today and the sense is that the changeover to spring lamb is happening now. Before the meeting ended then, one lad was after getting a text from the factory to say hoggets were back to 4.90 for next Monday. Spring lambs back to 6.00, before any producer group bonus.

Plenty lambs on the ground at the moment and they’re a few weeks ahead of where they were this time last year so being killed earlier

Lambman

I'd buy aged ewes off the hill and put them till a BFL ram. Which I am doing this last 2 years. €50 a ewe and the will need no meal before scanning. Whatever scans empty is still gonna come into more money than €50 as a fat ewe in February. I'd imagine you'd see roughy €100 a single and maybe €120 a double. Buy a ram lamb so if it doesn't work out you'll cover yourself selling him as a hogget. Till be honest if I sat down and worked it all out them ewes left me the most profit this past 2 years. I'm lucky I know the man selling them and he is a good farmer doesn't put ewes back till hill unless there in top order. All ewes are dipped dosed and vaccinated before I get them. I'm not telling no man what till do but I've been lucky with them this past 2 years scanning 150% very little losses all lambed outside. Some did go lame while heavy in lamb but came back outta it. Kept over 44 ewe lambs from last year grew into good sheep but there far from fat. I wouldn't like till a been finishing the ram lambs outta them on grass only anyways.

kk.man

Lambman wrote: »

I'd buy aged ewes off the hill and put them till a BFL ram. Which I am doing this last 2 years. €50 a ewe and the will need no meal before scanning. Whatever scans empty is still gonna come into more money than €50 as a fat ewe in February. I'd imagine you'd see roughy €100 a single and maybe €120 a double. Buy a ram lamb so if it doesn't work out you'll cover yourself selling him as a hogget. Till be honest if I sat down and worked it all out them ewes left me the most profit this past 2 years. I'm lucky I know the man selling them and he is a good farmer doesn't put ewes back till hill unless there in top order. All ewes are dipped dosed and vaccinated before I get them. I'm not telling no man what till do but I've been lucky with them this past 2 years scanning 150% very little losses all lambed outside. Some did go lame while heavy in lamb but came back outta it. Kept over 44 ewe lambs from last year grew into good sheep but there far from fat. I wouldn't like till a been finishing the ram lambs outta them on grass only anyways.

Fair play to you. Nice turn in them.

Lambman

Not in it for the turn bought them till breed replacements happy with how it's going. Next year will tell the story when I start lambing my own replacements. Everyone has there own ideas.... Ask me in 5 years and I could be agreeing with them men disagreeing with me now. Sheep's tight margins farming's tight margins it's probably the only industry that u start from the bottom and no matter how hard you work your still at the bottom.

orm0nd

Bought a load of lambs to the factory. Some amount of lambs in the lairage

paddysdream

orm0nd wrote: »

Bought a load of lambs to the factory. Some amount of lambs in the lairage

Which factory?

Green farmer

See there factories cut back quotes further in this week. Two weeks out from ramadan, busiest demand week of the year. And to think, they were in the press a year or two back asking people to push on and increase production ahead of 2020. Sad really, won’t be many sheep farmers left at this rate.

Willfarman

A cut brings more fit sheep to market tan a rise does.

orm0nd

Willfarman wrote: »

A cut brings more fit sheep to market tan a rise does.

the fine weather is bringing out large number of quality lambs, just wondering if the present trend continues will supply be scarce in a month;s time ?

a lot of meal fed lambs are killing 50% upwards,

BTW the factories are giving more than they're quoting, if you have lambs to go , bargain hard and phone around.

Dickie10

they try this trick most years i think lambs will actually be scarce enough and they are bluffing trying to get out big numbers by panicing farmers , im weighing mine for the first time tomorrow only properly fit lambs will go

ganmo

always look at the figures,first week of may they killed 10,000 more than the same week last year
https://www.bordbia.ie/farmers-growers/farmers/prices-markets/sheep-throughput/

overall kill is down by about 50k though

Green farmer

ganmo wrote: »

always look at the figures,first week of may they killed 10,000 more than the same week last year
https://www.bordbia.ie/farmers-growers/farmers/prices-markets/sheep-throughput/

overall kill is down by about 50k though

10,000 more for that week because Easter was late and also a lot of lads cashed in on spring lambs ahead of schedule. Factories started building for Ramadan straight away. Overall numbers year to date are back because their scarce overall, it was just what was ever there, arrived in one lump, between hoggets and springs. Cannt blame hogget lads either. Factories kept prices suppressed for most of spring and cut back killing days to suit, which meant lads had to hold on and on to get any return on their product.

Siamsa Sessions

Loads of lambs offloaded in the UK too apparently ahead of the first Brexit deadline at the end of March so that could have impacted price here if factories were bringing them in again

Hard Knocks

Sold first lambs
52kg at €115
Well back on other years

Stories down the yard aren’t great, dread what it’s going to be like when the March lambs come out

Green farmer

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Sold first lambs
52kg at €115
Well back on other years

Stories down the yard aren’t great, dread what it’s going to be like when the March lambs come out

And to think, the factories were out a few years ago asking lads to increase production for 2020. First time there’s a good supply of lambs, they crash the price. I Wonder how many new lads are getting into sheep farming to replace the old lads getting out, with the type of messing going on ? Will be very little left to supply them in a few years time