Spring lamb prices

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

I don’t think it is. There’s needs to be more clarity of who is driving this policy. Is it the factories, vets or potential importers of our products

My lambs were dry when loaded and certainly not as dirty as shown in category C leaflets that came in post

If there’s a batch of rejected lambs turned away. Let the AO catch the lambs and record full tag numbers and sent a dispatch dockets back with lambs. If we have stringent protocols they should have to adher to them too

Rejecting the whole batch and returning the movement docket like the marts won't be a deal breaker, you were lucky if they only rejected your dirty ones.
Factories can stand back, they know their interests are being looked after and then some.
I'm convinced taht once the lambs are unloaded at the factory they won't be allowed back on farm`
Even if they were, the lorry that delivers ours is usually going on for a load of pigs and very rarely could bring the rejects back

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

A meeting last night reminded me of something we learnt in Belgium.
ICM are now going under the name Celtic Lamb for some of their product, it's a mixture of English and Irish lamb.

The AO can single out and send home dirty lambs no problem, but doesn’t have a issue with lambs from different countries being chopped up and put in the same box. Dept would want to reassess its priorities along with bird bia who don’t want to know about it.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

The AO can single out and send home dirty lambs no problem, but doesn’t have a issue with lambs from different countries being chopped up and put in the same box. Dept would want to reassess its priorities along with bird bia who don’t want to know about it.

Good quality lamb is good quality lamb no matter where it's coming from, we can't really be hostile to english lamb coming in when our beef pouring into England and wrecking the price, we're the Brazil beef of England.....we're lucky it's not being chucked into the Irish sea

kk.man

wrangler wrote: »

Green farmer wrote: »

The AO can single out and send home dirty lambs no problem, but doesn’t have a issue with lambs from different countries being chopped up and put in the same box. Dept would want to reassess its priorities along with bird bia who don’t want to know about it.

Good quality lamb is good quality lamb no matter where it's coming from, we can't really be hostile to english lamb coming in when our beef pouring into England and wrecking the price, we're the Brazil beef of England.....we're lucky it's not being chucked into the Irish sea

I see your point but on the other hand they are far from self sufficient to have that luxury.

kk.man

With regard to the movement documents the same anomalies applied to Shane Ross's NCT for tractors (Green diseal).
They are more ways to protest than standing outside a meat plant with a poster.

ganmo

razor8 wrote: »

I don’t think it is. There’s needs to be more clarity of who is driving this policy. Is it the factories, vets or potential importers of our products

My lambs were dry when loaded and certainly not as dirty as shown in category C leaflets that came in post

If there’s a batch of rejected lambs turned away. Let the AO catch the lambs and record full tag numbers and sent a dispatch dockets back with lambs. If we have stringent protocols they should have to adher to them too

Theres also an issue of what happens if a lamb dies in the process. Everything needs a paper trail.

Theres also the question of if the lambs are still bordbia approved as they have been on a farm for less than the time required by their terms

wrangler

ganmo wrote: »

Theres also an issue of what happens if a lamb dies in the process. Everything needs a paper trail.

Theres also the question of if the lambs are still bordbia approved as they have been on a farm for less than the time required by their terms

Factories won't continue doing what they done yesterday for all the reasons here, They Department have put them up a blind alley. The logistics of sorting lambs, letting them dry, shearing if dirty, is not doable.
They would be very foolish to take any responsibility for rejected lambs....not their problem is it.

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

Rejecting the whole batch and returning the movement docket like the marts won't be a deal breaker, you were lucky if they only rejected your dirty ones.
Factories can stand back, they know their interests are being looked after and then some.
I'm convinced taht once the lambs are unloaded at the factory they won't be allowed back on farm`
Even if they were, the lorry that delivers ours is usually going on for a load of pigs and very rarely could bring the rejects back

I only had 4 lambs in total so wasnt really bothered, to simplify the situation i sold them to the agent so he'll probably shear them and bring them back

but thinking about it now, i cant see how they could be still be bord bia approved if moved back and forth as ganno says, these are the questions we need to be asking and holding these policy makers to task on this. it cant always work one way

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

Factories won't continue doing what they done yesterday for all the reasons here, They Department have put them up a blind alley. The logistics of sorting lambs, letting them dry, shearing if dirty, is not doable.
They would be very foolish to take any responsibility for rejected lambs....not their problem is it.

if its not there responsibility then whats the purpose of the whole situation. who & why is it been pushed to this extreme

are factories having same issues in UK? they have access to same markets as we have

has greyside a side to this situation?

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

Good quality lamb is good quality lamb no matter where it's coming from, we can't really be hostile to english lamb coming in when our beef pouring into England and wrecking the price, we're the Brazil beef of England.....we're lucky it's not being chucked into the Irish sea

I’ve no issue with English lamb as long as it’s labelled differently and not boxed up with a quality approved bird via stamp put in it.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

I’ve no issue with English lamb as long as it’s labelled differently and not boxed up with a quality approved bird via stamp put in it.

Obviously the Celtic lamb brand is getting around that, It's like Free Range Beef, consumers expect organic which of course it's not.
Celtic only sounds Irish

Willfarman

I've no issue with it as long we ain't subsidising it and being left short on price of our own. The Irish domestic market is all the Irish labelling would matter and that's not that big really.

Sheep breeder

With dirty lambs going into factories at the moment all that is needed is an ecoli out break and then a total collapse of price and when would the sheep industry recover,
In the factory lairage sheep are inspected by vets and not done by AOs.

razor8

Sheep breeder wrote: »

With dirty lambs going into factories at the moment all that is needed is an ecoli out break and then a total collapse of price and when would the sheep industry recover,
In the factory lairage sheep are inspected by vets and not done by AOs.

has there ever been a ecoli outbreak reported before? genuine question, if this has been increasing then maybe the whole situation can be justified but if it hasnt then why introduce this policy now

wrangler

Sheep breeder wrote: »

With dirty lambs going into factories at the moment all that is needed is an ecoli out break and then a total collapse of price and when would the sheep industry recover,
In the factory lairage sheep are inspected by vets and not done by AOs.

Everything was going grand at the existing level of supervision that was there, and the factories would slow down the line for the dirtier ones, some farmers take the proverbial alright and they should be reeled in.
It's an ill wind etc, the price has rocketed in an effort to get clean lambs, one factory is reputed to be importing 9000 lambs/week alright and I see them at the bottom of the prices in the Journal today.
Going through our prices for 2017, I was surprised to discover that our average bonus was 23c/kg on top of the average of the top two quotes every week.
I was surprised because the yearlings lambs had a lot of fatscore fours in my bid to get them as heavy as possible.......very easy to tip into a four with small lambs

Robson99

wrangler wrote: »

Apparently there was 800 lambs rejected for dirt in Athleague yesterday out of 1300 delivered, anyone hear anything about it,
my source is fairly reliable.
Let the battle begin

I think you might be on the ball there with no's. Its seems to be all very hush hush. I wonder is there anything in the comic about it today ?
I wonder whats the agenda behind it all ... keep the boys in jobs ? force farmers into putting up more sheds so more grant inspections ??. Half the fookers know more about paper and ink than they do about animals or farming practicallity IMO [ i do realise there is a certain amount of ' dirty lambs ' being presented but this is just nuts ]

razor8

Robson99 wrote: »

I think you might be on the ball there with no's. Its seems to be all very hush hush. I wonder is there anything in the comic about it today ?
I wonder whats the agenda behind it all ... keep the boys in jobs ? force farmers into putting up more sheds so more grant inspections ??. Half the fookers know more about paper and ink than they do about animals or farming practicallity IMO [ i do realise there is a certain amount of ' dirty lambs ' being presented but this is just nuts ]

should we request a representative to take pictures of the imported lambs and ensure they are not worse than the lambs the ordinary farmers are getting rejected??

Robson99

razor8 wrote: »

should we request a representative to take pictures of the imported lambs and ensure they are not worse than the lambs the ordinary farmers are getting rejected??

I dont think its been driven by the factories though... surley the more thats turned away has more of a cost implication on the factories.. but you just never know

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

should we request a representative to take pictures of the imported lambs and ensure they are not worse than the lambs the ordinary farmers are getting rejected??

You'd have to get permission to take photographs on private property. I got threatened with throwing out of a factory in Italy for taking photographs
Northern farmers wouldn't load lambs without fasting.......they tell me
Northern lambs would be good lambs, never saw too many bad ones anyway

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

You'd have to get permission to take photographs on private property. I got threatened with throwing out of a factory in Italy for taking photographs
Northern farmers wouldn't load lambs without fasting.......they tell me
Northern lambs would be good lambs, never saw too many bad ones anyway

But are they not still our property until Cheque is paid?

Northern lambs are usually good quality but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are any cleaner than lambs sent from here

Trailers would have to be seriously well bedded for lambs to arrive clean after traveling for a few hours

I’m just curious to know if everyone is treated the same but I wouldn’t be too confident

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

But are they not still our property until Cheque is paid?

Northern lambs are usually good quality but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are any cleaner than lambs sent from here

Trailers would have to be seriously well bedded for lambs to arrive clean after traveling for a few hours

I’m just curious to know if everyone is treated the same but I wouldn’t be too confident

I can't see why the AOs would differentiate, what difference would it make to them whether they reject an Irish or imported lamb, especially with disgruntled farmers watching them.....if I was in the lairage I'd be very aware of other lambs if my own were rejected.
With the rules and regulations, you'd wonder do the give a damn about any self employed or private business.
Like was there ever a complaint about dirty lamb regarding any of the factories, yet they feel they have to tighten the rules

Willfarman

Greysides. Do the department check lamb carcasses with iv light for bacteria?

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

I can't see why the AOs would differentiate, what difference would it make to them whether they reject an Irish or imported lamb, especially with disgruntled farmers watching them.....if I was in the lairage I'd be very aware of other lambs if my own were rejected.
With the rules and regulations, you'd wonder do the give a damn about any self employed or private business.
Like was there ever a complaint about dirty lamb regarding any of the factories, yet they feel they have to tighten the rules

Because it’s the factories buying the northern lambs at source & hauling then rather than us bringing them to factory

Just can’t see northern lambs been sent home. Is it possible the day that was picked to set an example just happened that no northern lambs were slaughtered that day.........

J.O. Farmer

Willfarman wrote: »

Greysides. Do the department check lamb carcasses with iv light for bacteria?

No they don't because they can't.
1. Bacteria won't show up under a uv light.

2. If they did the entire carcass would be covered anyway.

On a related note the uv has potential for reducing the amount of bacteria on the surface but won't penetrate dirt.

Obviously killing lambs covered in dung is going to increase the comtamination of the carcass but what happened to basic precautions to stop people getting sick like getting them to cook the meat before eating it.
It seemed to work for years or are lambs dirtier these days.

Sheep breeder

The northern lambs are fasted and travel on lorries with saw dust or shavings and usually travel well,
The problem with dirty lambs is on the hide puller when the skin slaps back against the carcass and puts bacteria on the lamb,
A couple of years ago there was a bad outbreak of ecoli in Scotland and a number of elderly people died and this is all that is required now is a scare against lamb and how long before the public turn away from lamb.

Westernrock

razor8 wrote: »

if its not there responsibility then whats the purpose of the whole situation. who & why is it been pushed to this extreme

are factories having same issues in UK? they have access to same markets as we have

has greyside a side to this situation?

Factories in the north have been clipping lambs for years to avoid dirty lambs going on the kill line. Some lambs would be sheared the morning they arrive and still killed that day, other factories the lambs would be held + dirty lambs left in that evening would be drafted for shearing that night and killed the next morning. All shearing would be done on site in the lairage, once an animal leaves the trailer that’s it, it can not be taken off the premesis. I don’t k ow how it is in England etc but I would have seen shearers set up I the marts, maybe agents get them clipped before loading?

wrangler

Westernrock wrote: »

Factories in the north have been clipping lambs for years to avoid dirty lambs going on the kill line. Some lambs would be sheared the morning they arrive and still killed that day, other factories the lambs would be held + dirty lambs left in that evening would be drafted for shearing that night and killed the next morning. All shearing would be done on site in the lairage, once an animal leaves the trailer that’s it, it can not be taken off the premesis. I don’t k ow how it is in England etc but I would have seen shearers set up I the marts, maybe agents get them clipped before loading?

I had heard that was the way it was, but hadn't seen it.
Definitely northern lambs would look well,so obviously they're used to all this.
The only question now is what the factories will charge for the service

early_riser

Anyone any quotes for next week? Getting rid of the last of the hoggets out of the way

Factory where i kill had 200 hoggets turned away by a visiting department man yesterday morning... neighbor was asking what can he do about a ewe that was skipped by the same man but seemly was passed to kill by factory vet, he doesnt no the exact details yet only that he is not getting paid for ewe,i never got sheep skipped here before but is there not insurance for this the same as cattle?

paddysdream

early_riser wrote: »

Anyone any quotes for next week? Getting rid of the last of the hoggets out of the way

Factory where i kill had 200 hoggets turned away by a visiting department man yesterday morning... neighbor was asking what can he do about a ewe that was skipped by the same man but seemly was passed to kill by factory vet, he doesnt no the exact details yet only that he is not getting paid for ewe,i never got sheep skipped here before but is there not insurance for this the same as cattle?

Presume that's ICM.Heard it was fun and games with dirty sheep there yesterday morning.The factory thought they were escaping the crisis but it was supposedly a different vet on duty there yesterday.
Regarding price 5;20 inc. BB bonus seems to be the going rate for yesterday and today.Factory lairages were seemingly rather slack this week as it seems many held off bringing lambs for a few days until this issue becomes clearer.Might be a blessing in disguise if the Dept. are messing around factories for once instead of concentrating all their fire on the easiest target ie the individual farmer.
Off the record talk is that the factories are rather peed off with Dept. stance on this.They want clean lambs but without any hassle with their supply chain ie let the farmer take the burden and cost as per usual.

MD1983

If the factories have sense they will just put in place the facilities to shear the lambs and charge the farmer a clipping charge, supply chain remains as it was just with some modification

i brought lambs to kildare and saw on the kill report a line for a deduction for a "clipping charge" that i dont recall from before (my lambs were clean so no charge), they are also building something in the lairage and maybe its for dealing with the dirty lambs

if the factories dont deal with the clipping themselves i can see it being an on-going problem for them, farmers will still turn up with dirty lambs and hope to get away with it, old lads with small numbers not likely to shear them in a hurry and not enough numbers to get a shearer contractor in