Season 4 Episode 6 "The Laws of Gods and Men": *HAVE* read the books

Mousewar

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I was thinking Tywin thought it was impractical to take a second wife after his first's passing, given that at this point in time he has well outdone the average life expectancy of Westeros.

Never stopped that sly old dog, Walder Frey!

Sulla Felix

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I was thinking Tywin thought it was impractical to take a second wife after his first's passing, given that at this point in time he has well outdone the average life expectancy of Westeros.

How old is he supposed to be in the books? I thought late fifties, early sixties. Considering he was still riding into battle he can't have been that much older. What age is Tyrion? Mid twenties, thirties? Not younger surely. Should have been well able to take another bride to bed.

cathalio11

Sulla Felix wrote: »

How old is he supposed to be in the books? I thought late fifties, early sixties. Considering he was still riding into battle he can't have been that much older. What age is Tyrion? Mid twenties, thirties? Not younger surely. Should have been well able to take another bride to bed.

Not sure about the books as Tywin's wiki page isn't working for me but in the show, they said he was 67.

Tyrion is 26 in the books.

Sulla Felix

Should still have had lead in the pencil then. :pac:

rawn

Sure wasn't Jon Arryn quite old when he married Lysa and fathered that little shít Robin? Maybe no one wants to marry Tywin...they might want the Lannister line to fade away

Witcher

Very...interesting pic from the next episode;

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FldHvfa4NfQ/U3ULpG9WhgI/AAAAAAABafw/FOoEVgg4k7Q/s1600/Game+of+Thrones+-+Episode+4.07+-+Mockingbird+-+Promotional+Photos+%282%29.jpg

:pac:

Sulla Felix

Gotta do something to keep people interested in her arc I guess. :pac:

Mr.Prodston

Where's Kevan Lannister? Surely he could do with being reintroduced or mentioned at least pretty soon. I always liked him.

Kunkka

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Where's Kevan Lannister? Surely he could do with being reintroduced or mentioned at least pretty soon. I always liked him.

His actor in the show so far is good too.

Gbear

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Where's Kevan Lannister? Surely he could do with being reintroduced or mentioned at least pretty soon. I always liked him.

It'll depend on which episode Tyrion kills Tywin but if they don't show the aftermath until next season (Cersei's opening chapter in Feast) then they could've held off bringing him back until then, where he'll have a fairly important role, I suspect.

Iwasfrozen

Would someone in Westeros PLEASE tell Tommen he is the King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men? :mad:

Seriously guys Oberyn was sitting right there!

Hotale.com

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Would someone in Westeros PLEASE tell Tommen he is the King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men? :mad:

Seriously guys Oberyn was sitting right there!

Leave it go. You've already upset one thread...

Iwasfrozen

Hotale.com wrote: »

Leave it go. You've already upset one thread...

I can't do it dude, I just had to come and vent.

ArmaniJeanss

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Where's Kevan Lannister? Surely he could do with being reintroduced or mentioned at least pretty soon. I always liked him.

Wonder if they've considered Tywin not dying and instead taking Kevans role for the next two series, Tywin eventually being killed by Varys.
Kevan to an extent is just a continuation of Tywin anyway (respected elder male with gravitas, organised, good leader, takes no bullsh1t from Cersei or anyone else in KL).
Tyrion would still have to flee after killing Shae (not to mention being 'officially' guilty of Joffs murder) and every other plot point could continue as normal.

Iwasfrozen

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Wonder if they've considered Tywin not dying and instead taking Kevans role for the next two series, Tywin eventually being killed by Varys.
Kevan to an extent is just a continuation of Tywin anyway (respected elder male with gravitas, organised, good leader, takes no bullsh1t from Cersei or anyone else in KL).
Tyrion would still have to flee after killing Shae (not to mention being 'officially' guilty of Joffs murder) and every other plot point could continue as normal.

But if Tywin doesn't die how do you explain the rearming of the Church or the Iron bank calling in its debts? Tywin would never have allowed either of these things to happen.

Also if Tyrion doesn't kill Tywin then he's not a kinslayer, which is a very big departure from the books imo.

ArmaniJeanss

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But if Tywin doesn't die how do you explain the rearming of the Church or the Iron bank calling in its debts? Tywin would never have allowed either of these things to happen.

Iron Bank calling in its debt - the change they've made with the Iron Bank meeting Stannis, and Tywin saying theres no more gold in Casterly Rock could have already laid the ground work for such a storyline if thats the way the writers wanted to go.
Re-arming of the faith supreme - more problematical I'll admit, hard to see Tywin agreeing to that regardless of financial difficulties.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Also if Tyrion doesn't kill Tywin then he's not a kinslayer, which is a very big departure from the books imo.

He's killed Joffrey so he's a kinslayer (in the eyes of the world) and if he kills Shae he is a murderer.

*****
All pointless posting from me anyway, as apparently Dance has already talked of his death scene been filmed.

Hotale.com

If Tywin doesn't die the Lannisters would be so much more powerful during the next season, Cersei would never be allowed make all her stupid decisions and why wouldn't they kill him when the show has been trying to milk this whole "Valar Morghulis" sh*t for the past 6 months?

kksaints

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Wonder if they've considered Tywin not dying and instead taking Kevans role for the next two series, Tywin eventually being killed by Varys.
Kevan to an extent is just a continuation of Tywin anyway (respected elder male with gravitas, organised, good leader, takes no bullsh1t from Cersei or anyone else in KL).
Tyrion would still have to flee after killing Shae (not to mention being 'officially' guilty of Joffs murder) and every other plot point could continue as normal.

It would mess up way too much having Tywin live. It would ruin the Cersei storyline aswell as she wouldnt be in control and the whole point of her chapters in AFFC is of her with full power and not having a clue in how to use it.

Son0vagun

We all know Tyrion put Tywin out of his misery, The gods don't see it as Kinslaying but as a mercy killing.

Plus Tywin isn't even Tyrions father.

Tzar Chasm

Son0vagun wrote: »

We all know Tyrion put Tywin out of his misery, The gods don't see it as Kinslaying but as a mercy killing.

Plus Tywin isn't even Tyrions father.

I always thought that the rumor was the other way. Tywin is Tyrions father, but the twins are targaryans

Hotale.com

Next thing people will be saying Greatjon Umber was a Targ.

Duckworth_Luas

Is there anyone left in Westeros who isn't a Targaryen?

Besides Aegon Targaryen who obviously can't be a Targaryen because he thinks he is!

Iwasfrozen

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I always thought that the rumor was the other way. Tywin is Tyrions father, but the twins are targaryans

Makes more sense for Tyrion, he has brighter hair than the rest of his family, his father despises him, the mad King was "fond" of his mother and shortly after Tywin and the Mad King fell out. (apparently because the king turned down Cersei as a bride for his son but there could easily be more to it.)

Paddy Cow

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Makes more sense for Tyrion, he has brighter hair than the rest of his family, his father despises him, the mad King was "fond" of his mother and shortly after Tywin and the Mad King fell out. (apparently because the king turned down Cersei as a bride for his son but there could easily be more to it.)

The only thing that stopped Tywin from drowning Tyrion at birth was the Lannister name. If Tywin had even a small shred of doubt that Tyrion was not his son, he would've killed him.

Iwasfrozen

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The only thing that stopped Tywin from drowning Tyrion at birth was the Lannister name. If Tywin had even a small shred of doubt that Tyrion was not his son, he would've killed him.

If he had any small shred of proof he would have killed him. Remember what Tywin said at the start of the last season in the show:

"Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine.
And to teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him."

I don't have the book on hand so I can't check it there but Tywin's wording in that conversation always stuck with me. It's an odd thing to say for a man who doesn't doubt his son's legitimacy.

Son0vagun

Regardless of Tyrions parentage he isn't a Kinslayer as Tywin was already dying!

Iwasfrozen

Son0vagun wrote: »

Regardless of Tyrions parentage he isn't a Kinslayer as Tywin was already dying!

Wait why was Tywin dying?

Whether he was dying or not anyway Tyrion still killed him.

ArmaniJeanss

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Wait why was Tywin dying?

Theres a theory that he was poisoned, with Oberyn Martell as the likely poisoner.
Theory is generally centred around the way his body fell apart at his 'lying in state' despite the best efforts of the top undertakers.

Edit: First post on this thread sum its up.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/67678-oberyn-poisoned-tywin/

Paddy Cow

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If he had any small shred of proof he would have killed him. Remember what Tywin said at the start of the last season in the show:

"Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine.
And to teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him."

I don't have the book on hand so I can't check it there but Tywin's wording in that conversation always stuck with me. It's an odd thing to say for a man who doesn't doubt his son's legitimacy.

I took that to mean that he had no doubt. We've seen time and time again that with all the hand maidens and snitches, it is next to impossible for a lady to get up to no good without it causing gossip. There has been no hints that Tywin had any reason to believe that his wife cheated on him. I know some people think his wife might have been raped by the mad King but I don't believe that for a second.

PopePalpatine

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I took that to mean that he had no doubt. We've seen time and time again that with all the hand maidens and snitches, it is next to impossible for a lady to get up to no good without it causing gossip. There has been no hints that Tywin had any reason to believe that his wife cheated on him. I know some people think his wife might have been raped by the mad King but I don't believe that for a second.

This is the Mad King we're talking about. I'd hazard a guess that when you spread a rumour about him, it'd be your last.

Man In The Nip

I wonder if GRRM or the show will ever sate reader's suspicions on potential Targaryen parentage of the series main characters ? (The Lannister twins, Jon Snow) ??

Paddy Cow

PopePalpatine wrote: »

This is the Mad King we're talking about. I'd hazard a guess that when you spread a rumour about him, it'd be your last.

When the mad King was alive, he was so paranoid that you didn't have to spread a rumour about him to die. After he died, you could say what you liked, and plenty did. I think that if he had raped Tywin's wife, it would have been mentioned or implied by someone.

PopePalpatine

Perhaps Tywin is equally unwilling to hear such rumours? Perhaps to a guy like him, his wife having sex with someone other than him (regardless of whether or not she consented) degraded her in his eyes?

Paddy Cow

It's hard to hear something that doesn't exist Tyrion is tolerated more than liked or respected and if such rumours ever existed I think they would've come to light by now. Someone would've used them against him.

TimeToShine

If Tyrion is a Targ or anything other than Tywin's son I'll eat my hat. As well as making little to no sense it would undermine their relationship from the first 3 books far too much.

Iwasfrozen

TimeToShine wrote: »

If Tyrion is a Targ or anything other than Tywin's son I'll eat my hat. As well as making little to no sense it would undermine their relationship from the first 3 books far too much.

I'll hold you too that. "The dragon has three heads," I'm convinced the three Targaryen dragon riders will be Dany, Jon and Tyrion.