18 days in South America

woodzie

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of going on a trip to South America later on this year but I only have 18 days due to work. I really want to do the inca trail, see the salt lakes, iguazu falls and maybe rio. Could anyone recommend an itinerary for a trip like this? Thanks

jobless

woodzie wrote: »

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of going on a trip to South America later on this year but I only have 18 days due to work. I really want to do the inca trail, see the salt lakes, iguazu falls and maybe rio. Could anyone recommend an itinerary for a trip like this? Thanks

to be honest 18 days wouldn't be enough to see all those places without feeling rushed... the salt lakes tours are 3/4 days and the same for the Inca trail.... also with the Inca trail they recommend on being in cusco a couple of days beforehand to get used to the altitude.... you also need to factor in travel time between places... I'd concentrate on Bolivia/Peru if that is the amount of time you have...

themacman

Agreed. You are trying to do both the east and west of SA in just over 2 weeks. I think you need to choose one or the other. FWIW I would also suggest Peru+Bolivia, but it depends what you would prefer to see.

woodzie

Cheers guys. I was thinking it might be too much to fit it all in. I'm thinking I might take an additional week unpaid and that way I could probably fit it in.

jobless

woodzie wrote: »

Cheers guys. I was thinking it might be too much to fit it all in. I'm thinking I might take an additional week unpaid and that way I could probably fit it in.

Even with the extra week you would probably need to fly to Iguazu and then Rio, the bus journeys are very long between them.... I've been to both and they are amazing but there is still plenty you could do with the extra week in Peru/Bolivia....

My advice is beg for as many weeks of as you can ...

woodzie

Haha jobless. I would take extra if I could but couldn't afford more than a week unpaid!

sarkozy

I think, if you REALLY want to, you could actually manage it all in 18 days. We managed Buenos Aires to Lima in three weeks and, while a little tiring at times, we did pace ourselves and it all worked out.

The real trick, and it's a tough call, is to fly into Buenos Aires but not spend much time there. That's where people get stuck, because it's just one of the best cities in the world and just so hard to leave.

The second trick is to book yourself on the super-luxurious overnight buses ('super-cama'). This way, you can get your bus in BA one afternoon and be in Iguazú the next morning having been fed, rested and entertained.

From Iguazú, you can get another overnight super-cama (maybe with one change in Resistencia) to Salta (skirting below Paraguay). Salta is worth a night or two for two reasons: there's the Inca mummies and good pursuits like horse trekking and, secondly, he helps you to acclimatise as you're in the Andes foothills by then.

Going to Bolívia, you could also overnight it in Cafayate for wine tasting and good eats. Or, I think you can get buses to the salt flats from here. From there, get a bus into Bolívia to Tupiza (easiest is to stay over in Tupiza because it's far enough) and from here, you may also be able to get to the salt flats (though we couldn't go because roads were blocked with snow).

Rio ... forget it.

Inca trail might be possible if you make good time. But only if you do a small portion of the trail and are smart by getting to Cuzco fairly quickly. This is the tough bit, because you'll need to zip through Bolívia quite quickly. I'd suggest going straight to La Paz (ignoring Potosí) and getting a bus straight to Perú (safer to get day buses in Bolívia), staying over in Arequipa, which is great with more mummies, a really interesting convent, (but you might need to stay over in Puno/Lake Titicaca (which is worth it).

Then you go to cusco and try to get on some Inca trail or tour (but best to book in advance).

If you followed your itinerary and travelled by road, you may have gradually acclimatised to the altitude, but don't underestimate the effects of altitude sickness. I was floored in Potosí, OK by Cusco, but did find it all tough going.

A way to save time with Machu Picchu, book in on a tour - bus/car to Aguas Calientes, stay over (it's a real tourist trap) and a train to MP the next morning. You might get back to Cusco the following day.

Then you've got to get home, so I guess you need to get to Lima.

Break it down by stages, assume at least one night per place, and try to work in overnight buses to save major time.

It's doing, but you'll be constantly on the move!

jobless

sarkozy wrote: »

I think, if you REALLY want to, you could actually manage it all in 18 days. We managed Buenos Aires to Lima in three weeks and, while a little tiring at times, we did pace ourselves and it all worked out.

The real trick, and it's a tough call, is to fly into Buenos Aires but not spend much time there. That's where people get stuck, because it's just one of the best cities in the world and just so hard to leave.

The second trick is to book yourself on the super-luxurious overnight buses ('super-cama'). This way, you can get your bus in BA one afternoon and be in Iguazú the next morning having been fed, rested and entertained.

From Iguazú, you can get another overnight super-cama (maybe with one change in Resistencia) to Salta (skirting below Paraguay). Salta is worth a night or two for two reasons: there's the Inca mummies and good pursuits like horse trekking and, secondly, he helps you to acclimatise as you're in the Andes foothills by then.

Going to Bolívia, you could also overnight it in Cafayate for wine tasting and good eats. Or, I think you can get buses to the salt flats from here. From there, get a bus into Bolívia to Tupiza (easiest is to stay over in Tupiza because it's far enough) and from here, you may also be able to get to the salt flats (though we couldn't go because roads were blocked with snow).

Rio ... forget it.

Inca trail might be possible if you make good time. But only if you do a small portion of the trail and are smart by getting to Cuzco fairly quickly. This is the tough bit, because you'll need to zip through Bolívia quite quickly. I'd suggest going straight to La Paz (ignoring Potosí) and getting a bus straight to Perú (safer to get day buses in Bolívia), staying over in Arequipa, which is great with more mummies, a really interesting convent, (but you might need to stay over in Puno/Lake Titicaca (which is worth it).

Then you go to cusco and try to get on some Inca trail or tour (but best to book in advance).

If you followed your itinerary and travelled by road, you may have gradually acclimatised to the altitude, but don't underestimate the effects of altitude sickness. I was floored in Potosí, OK by Cusco, but did find it all tough going.

A way to save time with Machu Picchu, book in on a tour - bus/car to Aguas Calientes, stay over (it's a real tourist trap) and a train to MP the next morning. You might get back to Cusco the following day.

Then you've got to get home, so I guess you need to get to Lima.

Break it down by stages, assume at least one night per place, and try to work in overnight buses to save major time.

It's doing, but you'll be constantly on the move!

All good advice but as you said it would be very rushed.... I just think rushing around SA is a big mistake, it is after all supposed to be a holiday too and you do need time to explore places and feel like you've actually visited them... Personally i find it hard to relax if i'm always thinking of the next bus/plane i have to catch... It's a hard call since there are so many things to see over there

sarkozy

Yeah, I mean, I didn't mention our 6 nights in Buenos Aires, one night in Uruguay, three nights in beautiful Coroico in Bolívia, 3-4 nights in Cusco, 2 in Salta, two in Arequipa ... there were other stops along the way, staging posts. I think we did well enough given the tight timeframe, but would always go back for more.

It all depends on the priorities of those travelling, and it's always a tough call between seeing a lot a little and seeing a little a lot.

I mean, I lived for 18 months in southern Africa and still don't feel I saw enough. The longer you spend in places, the more they open up, the deeper they get.

Tibulus

jobless wrote: »

All good advice but as you said it would be very rushed.... I just think rushing around SA is a big mistake, it is after all supposed to be a holiday too and you do need time to explore places and feel like you've actually visited them... Personally i find it hard to relax if i'm always thinking of the next bus/plane i have to catch... It's a hard call since there are so many things to see over there

Taking your time is the ideal way but is not always possible. I am planning a similiar trip for next year and will be limited to maximum of 24 days due to my job and have very ambitious plans for what I want to fit into that time frame. Obviously it will be more expensive and not particular relaxing but needs must.

sarkozy am excellent post, found it most helpful.

The must see for me would be:
1. Buenos Aires
2. Iguazú Falls
3. Death Road
4. Inca Trail
5. Amazon
6. Lima

Fly into Buenos Aires for a few days, the super-cama bus sounds like an great idea to get to Igazu.

When I get to LaPaz its a day trip to cycle death road to Coroico, then bus back or cycle back the next day.

Can get flight from LaPaz to Cusco for 150+/-. Then do a 4 day trip Inca trip and a 2/3 day Amazon trip from Cusco.

Then 75+/- flight to Lima and home from there.

The big problem for me is getting from Igazu to LaPaz, Would involve either a flight via Buenos Aires. Or possibly going across boarder and getting flight to Lima from Brazilian airport and going home from LaPaz.

Can anyone advise?

sarkozy

I think it's well worth staying for a night or two in Coroico. It's beautiful and very relaxing, and I think you'd need that given (a) your 'Death Road' trip, and, (b) relief from the altitude. The new road back to La Paz is new and safe and very beautiful. You're not wasting time staying one extra night in Coroico as it only takes 90 minutes to drive back to La Paz on the new road, after which it's easy to hit the road out of La Paz the same day. But do consider the 'Death Road' literally - every month someone dies. When we were in Coroico, our hotelier told us a cyclist died going over his handlebars. It's unfortunately your responsibility to ensure your bike is sound and in good repair, brakes working, etc.

Can't help you with the Iguazú-to-La Paz issue. As I said, we overnighted it to Salta where we stayed and bussed northwards to Cusco to Arequipa. That said, we had decided not to do any Inca trails, so we didn't need that extra time, which you would. If you can fly from Brazil to Cusco, this might save you a lot of time but do remember the effect of the altitude on you. You'll need around three days to (barely) acclimatise.

Stojkovic

Planning trip just to BA next Mar/Apr.

Purely just to visit La Bombonera and hopefully see the Superclasico.

Will only get 8/10 days.

Any advise on what else to do/see.

Can Iguaza be done in a day (or 2) ?

sarkozy

From BA, three nights: overnight bus there, stay the night in Puerto Iguazú, overnight bus back. You can day trip out of BA to Colonia in Uruguay, which is pleasant.

hibsman

Hi all,
just found this thread and found it very interesting.
My wife to be and I are planning a trip to South America this October for our honeymoon.
We have the whole month but are just working on our route and finding it quite daunting!
Initially we planned on Argentina, Brazil and maybe heading east if time allowed.
However a lot of people have advised us to avoid Brazil and head straight for Peru/Bolivia.
Sarkozy, I note you say to avoid Rio so I presume you would agree with this?
So a rough plan would be to try and spend time in Buenos Aires (including a boat trip to Uruguay), Iguazu Falls (probably by bus as suggested above), Salta (I presume Bariloche is too far away for us?), onwards to Cusco (would there be a suitable flight or bus?) and spend a week or two travelling through Peru by bus getting in Machu Picchu, Arequipa and finishing in Lima for a few days before flying back. (or alternatively doing the opposite route, starting in Lima, finishing in BA)
Does this sound achievable in a month and is October a good time?
Is the anywhere else we should consider?
I welcome any advice as we are flexible and have no set plans yet.
Thanks.

sarkozy

I haven't been to Brasil, so I wasn't saying that it's not worth it, just that I haven't anything to say about it, and it's very far away on an itinerary like that.

Your general route, as you say, would be similar to ours. The thing is, we had no master plan, just an arrival date in Buenos Aires and a departure date in Lima. You would definitely save lots of time taking a few internal flights. I see you're thinking of avoiding Bolívia for the most part. If it's ease of travel and not being too discommoded on such a special holiday, perhaps this is a fair idea, but I do think stepping in somewhere would be good, e.g. Lake Titicaca, crossing into Perú, in which case, I don't know if it would just then make more sense to get to Perú by land.

I'll say again that you will definitely need time to acclimatise to Cusco (which is lower in altitude than La Paz), but more hilly and, therefore, exhausting.

You could definitely do the trip the other way around, too.

As for Barriloche, etc., others might recommend. We do wish we could have travelled west to Mendoza, Barriloche, and south to the glaciers, but it was wintertime (April/May). Again, you could go to Barriloche if you fly, but if by land, you're going to have to forget about other places. That's the sacrifice. But I would totally say Iguazú is worth it.

hibsman

Thanks Sarkozy for that great post. I see our rough plan would be similar to yours alright. We have close to 5 weeks, I see you did it in 3 weeks but avoided the Inca trail. I guess we figure if we are going to South America we'd like to see as much as possible but I see the danger in trying to plan too much.
Planning to miss some of Bolivia is purely to save time. I thought a flight from Salta to Cusco (if there is one) would allow us time to explore elsewhere without feeling rushed but yes, ideally we would like to see Lake Titicaca also.
Your point about Cusco and taking a few days to acclimatise is well made, I hadn't really factored that in. I wonder if starting the trip in Lima and busing through Peru before coming to Cusco would be a better way to adjust to the altitude?
Also, can anybody recommend a good website for checking prices and booking flights to and from South America? I heard from somebody that trailfinders are good for flights as they get discounts from the airlines.
Many thanks.

Tibulus

Hi Hibsman. I am planning a rushed 3/4 week trip next year and planning to see as much as I can of Peru, Bolevia and Argentina.

I find that the Wikipedia pages for each airport is a good way of finding out if there is a direct route between airports.

I use skyscanner.ie for all straight forward flights such as one way to from La Paz to Lima or return flights to Prague. But for multistop flights such as fly into buenos aires and out of Lima I use gohop.ie. Check out Trailfinders and USIT before booking. But gohop.ie have good online set up.

I would always try book flights directly with an airline if possible. Had a bad experience booking flights through ebookers two years ago and they just didnt want to know when something goes wrong. At least an airline cant pass the blame if you book directly with them.

Another way to breakup the trip would be to include a tour, maybe not what you had in mind for a honeymoon but might be good to take a break from all the planning and organizing in the middle of your trip. Loads of tour companies out there, http://www.tourradar.com/ is a good site for finding the right one. Need to do alot of research too to ensure that the tour company is the right company too and dont end up with a bus or over 70's or under 21's. This is a trip that I was interested in for next year: http://www.gadventures.com/trips/in-the-shadow-of-machu-picchu/PSM/2014/ .

Narsil

We've just booked our 3 week trip for next year and it is totally manageable, but very expensive!

First 12 days doing the GAdventures Amazon to Andes trip. Then we fly from Lima to Iguassu for 3 nights and fly to Rio for 5 nights.
Booked with Trailfinders, very helpful and not a whole lot more expensive than doing it ourselves.

hibsman

Hi Tibulus and Narsil, thanks for the posts. The problem seems to be the Salta to Cusco leg, time wise our trip would appear manageable otherwise but flights don't seem to be a realistic option between Salta and Cusco and from what I can make out, buses and trains take many days.
Tibulus, what is your rough plan for the 3/4 weeks? How are you travelling down to Argentina from Bolivia? The tours sound like a good idea, will check out GAdventures and I'm planning a visit to trailfinders tomorrow. Cheers.

Tibulus

hibsman wrote: »

Tibulus, what is your rough plan for the 3/4 weeks? How are you travelling down to Argentina from Bolivia? The tours sound like a good idea, will check out GAdventures and I'm planning a visit to trailfinders tomorrow. Cheers.

Roughly this is what im thinking. Already I see flaws with this, will need more time in LaPaz to visit San Pedro prison, cycle death road to Coroico and back again.

Can fly from the Brazilian airport at Igazue to Lima, only on certain days and is expensive. But would save me at least a day travelling back to Buenos Aires or Rio and getting a flight from there.

Think we are in a similar position, I would love to take 3 months a travel the continent in depth but personal and professional commitments permit this. Trip im looking at will be more expensive and I will need to sacrifice certain stops that are just too far of the trail, originally I planned going to the salt planes in south Bolivia but would take too long to get there and get back.

Can get an 16 hour bus from LaPaz to Cusco would is not supposed to be as comfortable as the buses to Igazue.

1 Fly (Dub - BA)
2 Buenos Aires
3 Buenos Aires
4 Buenos Aires
5 Buenos Aires
6 Bus To Igazue
7 Igazue
8. Travel to Lima
9. G 1
10. G 2
11. G 3
12 G 4
13 G 5
14 G 6
15 G 7
16 G 8
17 G 9
18 G 10
19 Cusco to La Paz
20 La PAz
21 La Paz
22 Lima
23 Lima
24 Travel Home

sarkozy

hibsman wrote:

I wonder if starting the trip in Lima and busing through Peru before coming to Cusco would be a better way to adjust to the altitude?

You'd want to ask people who did that. All I can say is the gradual incline from BA to Salta and then onwards and upwards was gradual enough for me and I still got floored in Potosí. Nothing was as bad as there for me, but Cusco was hard work as I said. It wouldn't take you as long to get from Lima to Cusco (I think we bussed it overnight), and I can't be sure how much altitude you'd make by getting there more gradually, but it would definitely help somewhat.

mckildare

sarkozy wrote: »

You'd want to ask people who did that. All I can say is the gradual incline from BA to Salta and then onwards and upwards was gradual enough for me and I still got floored in Potosí. Nothing was as bad as there for me, but Cusco was hard work as I said. It wouldn't take you as long to get from Lima to Cusco (I think we bussed it overnight), and I can't be sure how much altitude you'd make by getting there more gradually, but it would definitely help somewhat.

Hibsman, we went Lima to Cusco via Nazca and I wasn't so bad. I had a mild headache the first day and the usual stomach concerns but that was all. My friend went out for a few beers and was in a heap the next day! When they say take it handy and don't go on a session, they're probably right :pac:

On the Salt Flats tour, myself and some Dutch lads had all been at high altitude in the run-up (coming from Cusco,La Paz,Potosi) and were fine. A UK couple and some German girls that all came from Salta direction weren't....might be a coincidence but adjusting is the only way and that requires time.

Buckets of water, rest, get some altitude pills from the local pharmacy, drink/eat coca leaves by the tonne. Do anything that your mind thinks will help!

hibsman

I didn't know about that flight from Iguazu to Lima Tibulus. Think i'll look that up and see if travelling through Peru on a tour from Lima, ending with Cusco/Machu Picchu might be a good option. Then overnight bus back to Lima for a few days before flying home perhaps. Would mean missing Salta as well as Lake Titicaca but probably a good way of getting the best out of our time. A few more weeks would be ideal of course but I suppose that's a good complaint!

hibsman

Hi all, just an update on our travel plans after more research and a trip to trailfinders. Having decided to give Peru a miss and concentrate on Argentina and Brazil we discovered that Argentina is not an easy or cheap place to get around so we are now looking at the following trip.

Fly to Lima via Amsterdam
8 day G adventures Machu Picchu adventure tour (Lima to Lima)
Fly to Santiago
2 nights there followed by bus (6 hours) to Mendoza for 2-3 nights
Bus (overnight) to Buenos Aires for 7-10 days of relaxing and a couple of day trips
8 day G Adventures Iguassu and Beyond trip from BA to Rio via Iguassu.
Couple of nights in Rio before flying home from there.

Again, maybe we are taking on too much but seems a good way of seeing a lot in our month. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Any suggestions much appreciated.

Thanks so much for the G adventures tip, checked them out and it really does save time and money to go with them. They have a sale on for July too. Trailfinders very good to deal with also.