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Critique my shop (pics inside)

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  • 12-05-2014 10:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,
    Some of you might remember me posting before about opening up The Website Shop, a pop up shop we set up in Dun Laoghaire which got off the ground due in part to the help I got on this board.

    In late October we moved in to a more permanent place in Harold's Cross and have been slowly improving on the shop.

    Since you can get tunnel vision when working closely on something I wanted to post here to get some honest (don't hold back!) feedback on the shop - How does it look? would you come in? Would you know what we do? And so on.

    We've got a very good location traffic wise, we're on Harold's Cross bridge which apparently is the 2nd busiest bridge in the city. The problem is it's one of those junctions you just want to drive through, and there's no obvious place for parking.

    Here are the pictures:

    This is a shot of the outside of the shop from across the road. The rubbish bins are an ongoing problem, they're mostly from the apartments above the shops. I've contacted local councillors and there hasn't been any improvement.

    kAvrrI4.jpg

    Here you can see the counter and the stools. We want the stools to help give the impression that you can pop in for a casual chat. We feel people might be a bit intimidated to come in to a shop they're not familiar with the concept of so we're trying to make it more inviting.

    TVZcF8o.jpg

    This is our counter which was installed recently. The guys who built it did a great job. The idea of the counter is to allow for a quick chat about the person's requirements (hence the wide surfaces at the sides to make it easy for putting the laptop up on to) without the necessity of sitting down at the table pictured below.

    kYaro1i.jpg

    Here you can see our back wall and the consultation table. The consultation table is for when an appointment is made, or for those longer discussions.

    vaCmLny.jpg

    I welcome your harsh and unfiltered criticisms!

    Thanks


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Looks good to me!

    Do you design websites?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    Hi Cian

    Looks really tidy, clean and sharp.

    My observations:

    Outside signage is too weak/soft... needs stronger impact.

    "Website" and " retail shop" are not an obvious or normal mental associations , so some window advertising saying exactly what it is you do, special offers etc will make it easier for an interested punter to venture in, not fearing asking a stupid question!! . Would also work for you when you are closed!!

    Cheers

    Peter


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭Mrs W


    It looks great and I love your thinking behind the counter and stools etc.

    It looks a bit unfinished to me though, above the door is mostly grey with only a bit of small writing and the MDF look counter would make me think it's not open yet?

    Best of luck with it


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Hi Cianos,

    I've seen pictures of your shop before as I've followed your progress but it's only now you've asked the specific question that I've stopped to think about the appearance.

    From the outside, it does look fairly cold and uninviting. It actually reminds me of one of the art galleries/studios in Temple Bar. It would be very easy to mistake the battleship grey for undercoat and presume the shop hadn't been finished yet. The signage could also reinforce the unfinished feeling.

    Talking about the signage, if you removed 'The Website Shop' from the window, you'd have absolutely no clue what products/services you were offering. My closest guess would be a dry-cleaners.

    I don't like the wood chip counter or the stools, they just add to the unfinished look but that may just be a personal taste thing. Personally I'd have gone for a couple of 2 seater sofas and a coffee table.

    The frustrating thing is I can't think of anything useful to suggest. I'm not sure how you would go about making the shop more inviting/less intimidating or how you would convey your products and services.

    Monitors in the windows displaying past projects? New signage. Brighter coloured paint? Cards displaying past projects or product offerings, perhaps presented in the same was an estate agent would?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    I like your idea!

    +1 re; the mdf, whilst it looks cool, it looks unfinsihed......maybe a lick of white paint to tone it down and blend in.

    Still, good idea.

    How about a pole and a near naked dancer in the window...........bound to get some "eyeball" on your shop then.......LOL (kiddin)

    good luck with your venture.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    Might be an idea to have 6 or 8 flat screen monitors viewable from outside to give a nice "techy" feel!

    Your rough particle board is not getting much love, Paint it funky pink or lime or purple with Annie Sloan Chalk paint and the stools in a contrasting colour.. the more outrageous the better!!


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 2,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭Oink


    I agree that it looks good. I have some ideas - take them with a pinch of salt for I know not of what I speak. I'm not a designer or anything, just a punter.


    From the outside:
    - As you said yourself: A lot of traffic, but stopping is not that easy. So you shop window needs to invite people to contact you. I did contact you before, so it’s obviously not that bad!
    - I would add “.IE” on a 4th line, in the window. It is written above, but not very big. I couldn’t see it in the picture, and I tried “.com”. Can you make the phone number more visible?
    - You have a big empty grey space above the shop which is under-utilized. It looks very neat and elegant and all, but it could work more for you.
    - Now for a classy touch that no one else bothers with: Rent a high pressure Karcher-type machine, and clean the footpath outside the shop. Hardly anyone else does it in Ireland. It will show you mean business, and people will notice.

    Inside:
    - You could use some more plants, within reason, well-chosen, and well- placed. How about on the right-hand side in the window. I'm thinking something tall and classy that doesn't take too much floor space.
    - How about a (classy, well-chosen) dash of colour: Maybe some brochures on the counter??

    I hope this helps. Also, best of luck with the shop!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭DubTony


    Tough location. There have been dozens of businesses in those shops in the past 30 years (except Delaneys, who's been there since Brian Boru was kicking Viking arse). Although I've said it for years that the location is only any good for specialist retailers, so that's a plus I suppose.
    The thing about specialist retail though, is that the shop is basically a big billboard with a door. It needs to be treated like that. Like Delaneys next door, people don't just drop in, they go when they need a bike. People need to see your ad and check out your product/service later on. Your "shop front" is literally your shop front (or vice-versa ;))

    Signage doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Due to the pole, electricity box, and bikes, and line of sight being blocked by cars in front, traffic coming over the bridge from town can't see the window until it's almost through the junction, and it's tough to do a double take coming off Harold's Cross bridge. I'd fill the overhead sign with the store name, and use the window on the left to show examples of your work (on screens or maybe something more static like this).
    As Peter said, retail and web site design don't normally go hand in hand, making the business unique. Unique retail needs a strong driver. For your business I don't know what that is, but while it's obvious that your business has something to do with web sites, traffic passing has no way of knowing what you do. I'd use the window on the right to tell them that "We Build Websites". At least that will get some attention.

    Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
    How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?


  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭wytch


    Hi,

    I drive by there a couple of times each week and never noticed you. I could possibly be in the market for your type of services, meaning that I really had no idea you were there. Inside the shop looks good to me.

    The outside of the shop is very bad from the point of advertising your wares. At a quick first glance (from your pics) I thought you were a coffee place.

    That bridge is a messy bridge traffic wise. Lane changes are a mess, I am always watching the traffic very carefully as I am crossing. You have a lot of smart-asses skipping lanes to avoid queuing like us civilised folk. I am say this to point out that I think you need something really 'flashy'/ 'blinky' attention grabbing.

    I noticed recently directly opposite Crips shoe shop in Terenure a new flashy LCD type advertisement for Ken Dohertys snooker academy. I believe it is there years but I never knew about it either. I know about it now because of his new flashy sign.

    Now that I know you are there, I will pop in for a consultation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭galwayjohn89


    I'd agree with the counter, it looks unfinished to me. Also, wouldn't be made keen on the general colour scheme. The first thing I looked at on the photo was the barbers due to the colour -although the barbers does look a bit run down. The photo of your shop in the dark on your site doors look very stylish.

    On another note, I'll probably be in touch with you for a new website design I'll be looking for in after I am back from my holidays!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Who made the counter for you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭ifah


    Hey Cianos - I popped into the pop-up shop in Dun Laoghaire so am delighted you took the next step.

    I agree with the others - the signage is too neutral, from outside looking in the shop looks unfinished due to the counter and you're not advertising or showcasing anything you do.

    If it was me i'd change a few things to show how you operate.

    - Counter is a good idea - why not use it to advertise how you will work ?
    - I'd do up a simple graphic story board and use it to display you and a client building a website ..... print in a high res posters and wrap the front of the counter in it.

    - I'm not sure about introducing flat screens - if you want techy - just use some light projectors to use the pavement or your walls to advertise - simplest, but most effective use of these i've seen is the pathway lights in IKEA - the just use simple arrows to point your way.

    good luck with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭NormalBob Ubiquitypants


    Pass this place on the bus. The only reason I have noticed it is because of the bright coloured shop Miss World next door. Maybe the frontage could change? I like the inside though. Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭DesperateDan


    DubTony wrote: »
    Tough location. There have been dozens of businesses in those shops in the past 30 years (except Delaneys, who's been there since Brian Boru was kicking Viking arse). Although I've said it for years that the location is only any good for specialist retailers, so that's a plus I suppose.
    The thing about specialist retail though, is that the shop is basically a big billboard with a door. It needs to be treated like that. Like Delaneys next door, people don't just drop in, they go when they need a bike. People need to see your ad and check out your product/service later on. Your "shop front" is literally your shop front (or vice-versa ;))

    Signage doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Due to the pole, electricity box, and bikes, and line of sight being blocked by cars in front, traffic coming over the bridge from town can't see the window until it's almost through the junction, and it's tough to do a double take coming off Harold's Cross bridge. I'd fill the overhead sign with the store name, and use the window on the left to show examples of your work (on screens or maybe something more static like this).
    As Peter said, retail and web site design don't normally go hand in hand, making the business unique. Unique retail needs a strong driver. For your business I don't know what that is, but while it's obvious that your business has something to do with web sites, traffic passing has no way of knowing what you do. I'd use the window on the right to tell them that "We Build Websites". At least that will get some attention.

    Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
    How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?

    This guy talks sense :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭jimmii


    I love that click here with an arrow to the door idea thats brilliant!

    Definitely take advantage of the unused space above the window. We are in a similar spot with a lot of traffic going by and have the letters in bright red writing we often have people coming in saying they have driven by the shop lots of times and have come in off the back of that. Its free advertising space for you so you may as well use it! Adding a screen with examples of work is definitely worth doing as it will pull the attention of people walking past. I like the desk but in a shop it does look like its being fit still.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    I know the look you are trying to achieve. But for Irish people there is a fine line between it and a place looking unfinished. Have you looked at what some people would call "hipster" places( I hate that term). Like Bunsen burger or any of the new cafes in Dublin city. They have a very similar look to yours.

    Most Irish people prefer the normal office look. Which is a €5 sq yard generic blue carpet, white walls and some horrible 1980s desks. Your look is refreshing. Maybe have a neon WS to draw attention. Bunsen burgers is very effective


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I'd agree with others in that it doesn't look finished, I think I'd pass you by thinking you weren't open for business.

    Is there a reason why you haven't utilised the boarding above the windows? I'd be sticking "The Website Shop" on there where it's more noticeable, and maybe stick a flatscreen in the window instead showing samples of your work/display offers etc.

    I'd also opt for a more inviting colour scheme. You're supposed to be designing me a website remember? Show me how creative you are! If your shop looks dull then why would I think the website would be any better?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭was.deevey


    Finally I'd have no qualms about putting a call to action in that window. Make it smart and maybe even funny.
    How about "Click Here to discuss your needs" with an arrow (cursor?) pointing to the door?

    I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

    Make people automatically think website when they look at it.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 388 ✭✭Atomico


    Like I mentioned last time I was down, definitely need to fill up some window space with some call to actions and highlights around what is on offer and why someone should pop in :) At the minute it just looks like a temporary space or art installation (and the MDF reinforces this impression).

    Also I am sure you guys are all about the minimalism, but definitely also needs a good boost in colour. Imagine if the shop were painted say blue with a little white - you would probably have an explosion in visitors overnight!


  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭lucky john


    Sorry, but if you expect to benefit from passing trade on the 2nd busiest bride in dublin you are going to have to make a few changes.

    Web design and tec stuff is not my thing so I haven't followed your earlier thread and I'm not going to search for it now because I just want to say what I see from your photos.

    Looking at your photos of the shop I assume you sell website templates that are fairly cheap and basic. You don't have anything over the door so I assume you haven't opend yet and that's confirmed by the dull, empty, unfinished look on the inside. That mdf desk is cheap looking and certainly I won't be enticed in to sit in on thoes stools. A passer by won't get the idea of the quick chat area. Why have you not some kind of signage even inviting some one in for a quick visit?

    If this shop is a window for your brand then it certainly wouldn't encourage me to even consider you unless I was looking for something very basic and cheap. The lack of any colour is striking actually.

    I've tried to avoid mentioning the rubbish outside because its not your fault but it's desperate and will have passer by's looking at it and avoiding it rather than noticing your shop. However, you are making absolutely no attempt to catch their eye. A grey board with no writing over the door is a real missed opportunity. the first place anyone will look to see what type of shop it is over the door. I don't know how much the rent is there but surely an advertising billboard on a busy spot like that would be considered prime and yet you are paying for that spot and leaving it blank. Are you so busy you don't need any advertising?

    I don't know your usp but tec spaces these days is all about cool, colour, comfort, coffee , coke, collaboration, concepts. The one c you don't want to be associated with is cheap. Value yes, not cheap. Unfortunately, grey and mdf look cheap.

    Alot of what I see could easily be fixed with a bit of colour, a coffee machine, advertising your offerings and replacing the mdf with a comfortable couch and a coffee table.

    Ok. Your probably fuming with me at this stage but without knowing you or your business that's what I see as a passersby. I would never be as brave to put my business up on a public forum like this and invite comment. I'm not the best at taking criticism even by the well intentioned but every day a potential customer comes in contact with our businesses they make exactly that assessment in their mind.

    Fair play to you and I hope this venture works out the best.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭lucky john


    was.deevey wrote: »
    I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

    Make people automatically think website when they look at it.

    Just went back to read others comments after leaving mine. This comment above is a great idea. If it was possible to do it could be fantastic and a real eye catcher.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    From the outside I have no idea what the business sells/does.

    I would assume it's an internet cafe that closed down a few years ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Cianos


    Thanks very much for the replies, loads of varied feedback and honest input which is exactly what I wanted!

    Rather than quoting everyone I'll address the main points raised;

    The most critical thing for us is getting across the message of what we do. I had thought that the name did most of the work here but I can see that that's just not the case. So I definitely think we need to hammer it home more. I think we'll put a big "WE MAKE WEBSITES" sign on the window just to make it 100% clear.

    And thanks to this thread I'm definitely going to have a think about the upper frontage.

    About it looking unfinished, that was something I was worried about alright. We are going for a minimalist designy look, but I realise this can also be alienating which we don't want. Bunsen was definitely an inspiration to the poster who mentioned them!

    The counter is made from OSB which is a much better quality MDF-like material. It looks much nicer in person and it's a "trendy" material to work with, Airbnb have used it a lot in their Dublin offices for example:

    heneghan-peng-airbnb-dublin-designboom-01.jpg

    I'm hoping that if we filled out the place a bit more with more colour, a monitor on the countertop, some more plants, more literature etc then it would help alleviate that unfinished look.

    I didn't mention in the OP that we've bootstrapped this whole thing with a VERY modest initial investment so the minimalist approach was also out of necessity :) We're not (yet) in a position to kit the place out with expensive gear etc but still, getting the general look & feel is really important and can be done without loads of cash if you're smart about it, so I really appreciate everyones' input so far.


  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭Hillybilly4


    was.deevey wrote: »
    I'd almost think of somehow making the entire shopfront appear to be a website before they get in the door outside e.g. sidebars, content areas, call to action, address bar above the door etc ...

    Make people automatically think website when they look at it.

    +1 What an excellent idea!


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fries-With-That


    Hi Cianos

    Congratulations on taking your pop up concept to the next level.

    I'm going to sound harsh, it does look like its been bootstrapped and it doesn't have to.

    The stools for your customers look far cheaper than the ones you're kept behind the counter, switch them.

    The banner behind the informal chat counter should be placed about 1 foot inside the main window and have a colour changing led bulb shining down on the lettering it will give a nice effect and also add movement to the window.

    You need a slogan, on the window to paraphrase a movie slogan from a few years ago, If we build it, they will come.......

    While the counter may appear trendy, it screams unfinished.

    I'd be heading to the nearest hardware that mixes paint and try to pick up as many weird mismatched colour mix paints as I could and use them on the walls.( Mismatch can be picked up from €5 -€15)

    The consultation area should be behind a screen, light plasterboard and 2x2 timber frame, will cost you less than €50.

    Use your windows and the available the signboard over the shop.

    Best of luck with the shop, and I hope to use your service in the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭jimmii


    With all the great feedback you've got here I might do the same with our shop!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Sugar Free


    Just another variation of what other people have said but the store front reminds me a lot of Jo Burger in Rathmines with its drab green colour.

    Granted that's a very different business but even though I've eaten there dozens of times I still occasionally walk right by without noticing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭lucky john


    Cianos wrote: »
    Thanks very much for the replies, loads of varied feedback and honest input which is exactly what I wanted!

    Rather than quoting everyone I'll address the main points raised;

    The most critical thing for us is getting across the message of what we do. I had thought that the name did most of the work here but I can see that that's just not the case. So I definitely think we need to hammer it home more. I think we'll put a big "WE MAKE WEBSITES" sign on the window just to make it 100% clear.

    And thanks to this thread I'm definitely going to have a think about the upper frontage.

    About it looking unfinished, that was something I was worried about alright. We are going for a minimalist designy look, but I realise this can also be alienating which we don't want. Bunsen was definitely an inspiration to the poster who mentioned them!

    The counter is made from OSB which is a much better quality MDF-like material. It looks much nicer in person and it's a "trendy" material to work with, Airbnb have used it a lot in their Dublin offices for example:

    heneghan-peng-airbnb-dublin-designboom-01.jpg

    I'm hoping that if we filled out the place a bit more with more colour, a monitor on the countertop, some more plants, more literature etc then it would help alleviate that unfinished look.

    I didn't mention in the OP that we've bootstrapped this whole thing with a VERY modest initial investment so the minimalist approach was also out of necessity :) We're not (yet) in a position to kit the place out with expensive gear etc but still, getting the general look & feel is really important and can be done without loads of cash if you're smart about it, so I really appreciate everyones' input so far.


    So many guys have come on here and asked for honest feedback. They they get all defensive when they get it and it ends badly. Fair play for taking this feedback in the manner it was ment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,571 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Not much I could add but to reaffirm what the lads have said about the grey colour not being vibrant enough to catch punters..
    Get a nice designed sign over your shop, its insane not to utilise that space as you're paying for it and then leaving it empty !!

    If you can't afford lots of tech and lcd's would it work to get some of the snap frames for posters, have some A1 prints of previous websites on display.

    Lastly I'd like to echo what others have said, you bravely asked for feedback and took it on board quickly, that sort of attitude is rare among start-up's as we tend to be so emotionally involved and have invested so much of ourselves that criticism is taken too personally.. Well done you !!

    EDIT:
    In fairness, I had a look at your website and the photo of the shop in the banner looks wonderful, but a full sign would really add to the whole look.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    OSB is an interesting looking material and while it might be very cool in the airbnb offices, they are not trying to get punters into their offices, their visitors are all online and only the staff get to see it!! Not at all the same objective as you Cianos!


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