Critique my shop (pics inside)

Buttercake

Hi, i think the concept is very good. A lot of people really need their hand held when getting their first website.

As others have said, I would lose the grey, white and wood feel - it feels very tired nowadays as its done EVERYWHERE. I would think more google than airbnb, google are more inviting, fun while also serious about their business.

I would make it more welcoming, inviting and simplistic for browsers . Its the same if you are selling anything in a shop

An lcd screen mounted in the window with some loop presentation of your sites/portfolio and of course some prices (starting from €xxx) might help catch the eye.

You have to figure your target market by having a shop like this, are they going to be savvy hipsters who know website and social media inside out? probably not, are you more inclined to have Mary who runs a small recruitment business across the road in the office park dropping in but doesn't know where to start when it comes to websites? potentially

its great an all having a shop but people will want to know if its going to cost them €100 or €1000 before they enter as the might feel silly

Maybe you could get some cereal type boxes made up and put in the window and printed with "YOUR NEW WEBSITE" written on them so it feels like an actual product?, different vibrant colours for different packages.

best of luck

#my2cents

Cianos

@Fries-With-That Thanks very much for the input, we're going to have a good think about how to bring in more colour and vibrancy for within our budget.

Regarding the upper frontage we're thinking of getting some 3D lettering done to make it stand out more but still keep the minimal/tidy look that we want, I'd appreciate everyones' thoughts on us doing something like this;

lucky john wrote: »

So many guys have come on here and asked for honest feedback. They they get all defensive when they get it and it ends badly. Fair play for taking this feedback in the manner it was ment.

Cheers, there's no value in just having your ego stroked!

Peterdalkey wrote: »

OSB is an interesting looking material and while it might be very cool in the airbnb offices, they are not trying to get punters into their offices, their visitors are all online and only the staff get to see it!! Not at all the same objective as you Cianos!

True. We're going to dress up the rest of the shop and I think this should help with the 'unfinished' appearance, if not we'll have to have another think about it.

Buttercake wrote: »

its great an all having a shop but people will want to know if its going to cost them €100 or €1000 before they enter as the might feel silly

This is a very good point. There's no standard price for a website, so people might be worried about walking in somewhere when they've no idea how much they'll be asked to spend, which could turn out embarrassing. At the same time we don't want to market ourselves on price as it changes the pitch in many ways. Maybe we could have a "From €XXX" done in a tasteful manner which wouldn't tie us in and would allow people to have more confidence walking through the door.

Buttercake wrote:

Maybe you could get some cereal type boxes made up and put in the window and printed with "YOUR NEW WEBSITE" written on them so it feels like an actual product?, different vibrant colours for different packages.

Funnily enough this is an idea on the cards, to give a 'pack' to new customers much the same way as phone companies do!

Thanks again everyone, much appreciated.

Hard to find a colour to blend with the purples and yellows beside it! Thats one o the reasons the grey doesn't work, because of whats around you.
And annoying to have those bikes and rubbish outside. If the lazy councillors can't be bothered to do anything and you know who is putting the rubbish there, Id go talk to him/her, tell him your buying a bin and ask him to use it.

What could be a fun thing to do is get a sign on the front of the house above - "NEED A WEBSITE BUILT"? With an Arrow pointing down to the shop - "CLICK HERE" Something like what the previous person said but if its above the window, all those people who haven't seen it or didn't know it was there will see it then.

Might need to get approval from the lazy ones for that though

theKillerBite

Is there something weird about the front door. It looks like your getting in a window with such a big step.

The inside is very bare and uninviting (intimidating). It kinda looks like your putting your customers on display like mannequins sitting on barstools.

I don't like the bar-style desk at all tbh. Why not go for a Trailfinders look, your customers could have a proper discussion sitting face to face.



Have some brochures, pot plants, warm lighting. Do you have a coat rack for customers?

Tell people exactly what you do on the window/outside, it took me 2 pages to figure out that you design websites.

antoinolachtnai

I saw this shop before seeing the thread and then saw it again.

I have been in the web game for a long time (since 1995) and judged all sorts of competitions on web agencies and dealt with loads. I deal now and again with retail strategy too.)

There are lots of subjective things I could say. Liking/not-liking the colour, OSB, lettering, etc. (If you care, I like the OSB, like the colour and lettering but don't think the standard of the workmanship or design on the outside of the shop looks crisp enough to carry off your ambition - but other people would think something different and if you really want to think about opinions, you need to make sure you know the opinions of your potential customers, not just the ladies and gentlemen of boards.ie.)

It is always very interesting to see the retail 'paradigm' or 'metaphor' applied to something that is inherently not retail. Website dev is everything retail is not. It is more b2b than b2c. It is about service, not product, is intangible, not real stuff you can feel and touch. It is about fuzzy prices and budgets, rather than clear offers.

That is not a criticism by the way. These are big problems for web and consulting industries. The offerings of web companies are too hard to purchase and consume. They are not particularly profitable either.

What you are about (I am guessing) is making it easier to purchase and consume these services. This is a good thing. It makes sense, at least in principle.

I think you have to follow through this thought. Your 'bar' is about having a conversation about a website or whatever. Well, I think you need a clear 'product' or 'offering' to help open the conversation.

An example of a 'product' would be a basic web page for 199 euros. Underneath that you write what is included in that. Or setting up twitter and Facebook company pages for 249 euros. Or training in using wordpress to update your website for 149 euros. (Or whatever prices, I don't know.) The important thing is that the punters know to some degree where they are before they begin.

I would suggest that the website is where these offers need to be laid out.

You will see the computer service companies putting together these sorts of offers. Compub also tries to offer things like training and service, which, together with accessories is where their profitability actually comes from. Also, carpet shops and tile places try to put together a 'package' of what it's going to cost to 'do' your hall stairs and landing or bathroom or whatever. In practice, they need your measurements or whatever. But it is a starting point for the conversation.

Once the conversation begins, the objective is to figure out something you can quote them for. It doesn't matter much what, but you want to aim to have them leaving the shop with some sort of quotation winging their way to their inbox.

You could also have something like a 'free' evaluation where you look at people's existing website and give them a list of recommendations about it. Or maybe charge a small fee for this.

You could also have some sort of 'event' and invite people. Difficult to execute well, but it makes proper use of the space and gets the word out.

It is the sort of location that you notice the shop when you are driving around or on a bus. So you will get some prominence from it. I would be interested to know how much web traffic the shop has attracted.

That said, it is not a great spot for business walk-ins in my view. Tough for parking, and not really a place where business people would naturally 'be'. But that doesn't necessarily matter. If people see the shop, then see the website, then call you or make an effort to call in, that will work.

Don't get too upset if things don't work fast. Even for highly experienced people, it can take years to really establish a retail business. And your concept is very difficult to carry off. Marketing/selling web-related services sustainably and profitably is difficult.

Scaldy Ned

amdublin wrote: »

Looks good to me!

Do you design websites?

Think that says it all .
Best of luck with it , i would go with a theme that if you have a business let us help you make it better and get that message out front. We all know that every business nowdays should have a site, what you need to let them know is the advantages it can bring...expanding customer base etc.....Lot's of small business owners would probably be too embarrassed to admit that they don't know what all this website stuff is all about, i would concentrate on making up a leaflet that doesn't assume a certain level of knowledge and explaining what a website is and how it works....i'm sure there are tons of old type businesses in Dublin that could benefit.
Get them to call in for a free chat that can clear the "website fog"
Best of Luck

Peterdalkey

Cianos

It is pretty clear that your interpretation of chic minimalist is too obtuse with your physical shopfront presentation , for the target market at least. I am sorry to say your own website is in a similar vein, and I would not be tempted by it all (http://thewebsiteshop.ie) You need to showcase premium design talents as well as great technical capability in your space if you hope to compete in this market.

I have always thought the concept was very "brave" but the lack of knockout design could well be a killer. Hate to be so negative but you asked for honest feedback.

Cheers

Peter

Moomat

Well done on taking the leap and best of luck with it.

I understand you're trying to keep the minimalist look but I don't think this is a great idea for trying to catch peoples attention. It would be fine if you are world renowned and have established a niche for yourself but at your stage it's too much of a contradiction. You are trying to make web design accessible but at the same time making your shop very forgettable and easy to miss. Bright and flashy may seem cheesy but it would probably attract the very people you need to make this work.

I clicked onto your website and couldn't see any showcase of your work. I'd imagine many people would follow the same path as me, see shop>>check website>>note work and ball park prices>>compare prices online>>visit shop
On the website as soon as I logged on a little chat window popped up asking do I need help. I find them a little intimidating, feels like you're being monitored especially within seconds of logging on and people may think this would be mirrored in the shop.

Atomico

I think fundamentally the branding and positioning of TWS needs to match up with the target market a lot more. At the minute it reflects your own design ideals and approach, rather than what appeals most to the target market

When it comes to your average Irish SME, they just want simplicity at the right price - a website that mirrors what they ask for and which they feel they got at the right ballpark price.

To get to simplicity and to convey that you can offer a very good price for a basic site which does the job, I reckon it's just about being *really* obvious. So much less about the kind of sleek minimalism that would appeal to other designers, and much more about:

-what do you do
-what do you offer
-what can you do (aka what have you done for other clients?)
-how much is it going to cost me! ('websites from €...')

I'd see it as building a solid, brightly coloured and clearly messaged bridge between the 'we have what YOU are looking for' elements, and what the customer really wants (a simple, basic, but solid website at a middle-of-the-road price).

Also, having been there more than once, the frontage area above the door REALLY hits you square on as you walk/drive over the bridge. It's crazy not to be maximising that, and it would be really simple to just put:

thewebsiteshop.ie - we make websites

...over the door!

beauf

Atomico wrote: »

...It's crazy not to be maximising that, and it would be really simple to just put:

thewebsiteshop.ie - we make websites

...over the door!

Just to add my 2cents, I agree with this. I don't think its obvious what you do, on the shop or the website. Likewise you need to make the "brand" more recognisable. I don't really get the receptionist bar thing.

terryhobdell

I pass this every night never noticed I don't think the interior matters ( I think it looks great by the way) Your problem is how do I see you. where do I park or how do I contact you if I can't park? Get your website address up in huge letters and point people to a parking spot. ie parking turn left 100 metres or whatever.

tarmon

I think Antoinolachtnai's advice above is excellent. I've just started up a small tourism business and one thing that stands out to me when looking for a web designer is the reluctance of people to advertise prices. Everything seems to be "contact us for a quote". As Antoinolachtnai said you want to get to the stage where you can begin a conversation with a prospective client so I really think if you advertised some packages that would entice people to contact you. Obviously the packages have the proviso that anything additional costs extra but at least a customer would have some starting point. To me it sometimes seems to be smoke and mirrors when it comes to pricing for website design and development. I absolutely understand that its not an off the shelf or out of the box product but given the advances in the sector and the availability of say Wordpress surely its easier to price up packages. Personally when I see "contact us for a quote" it just turns me off...maybe that's irrational I don't know but that's how I feel and I've come across plenty who think like me!
Sorry I know I'm not commenting on your shop front or website but I just saw that piece of advise and thought that it was excellent.
Anyway best of luck with the venture! I hope it all goes well for you.

Tarmon

Buttercake

@tarmon - while not of the same obvious scale, the principle of building a website is the same as building a house.

There are a multitude of ways of getting a website these days from using open source Wordpress etc to building a custom CMS. Web designers dont like to list prices as it will attract people only interested in paying that price or scare off prospective clients, its a lose/lose. The other issue is if you advertise €500 for site, people will only want to pay €500 for the site, even if you tell the client the time has overran.

for many web designers, every client will ask for "something basic" and it ends up turning into a 3-month project when they as for additions. There are tons of features that designers can have on their site that they couldn't have years ago, the accessibility to these components is there but it still takes man hours to install, configure and design.

beauf

Is nothing like building a house. But that aside, its hard to manage expectations on a low fixed price. You have to decide if that's a market you want to work in or not. But there's a lot of competition and I wonder how profitable it is.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

Is nothing like building a house.

I'd have to disagree. Saying 'how much for a website' is every bit as open ended as saying 'how much for a house'.

beauf

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website. As such they have to be sold very differently.

Unless of course its a sweeping generalisation that could be applied to any project regardless of scale. Which is a bit pointless imo.

Buttercake

beauf wrote: »

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website. As such they have to be sold very differently.

Unless of course its a sweeping generalisation that could be applied to any project regardless of scale. Which is a bit pointless imo.

It's a figure of speech and is applied to give clients some vivid realism of the work that goes into "building" a site, as opposed to someone sitting in front of a computer. For any website worth their weight you will have project manager, designer, developers, copywriters, etc all working on it or perhaps 1 or 2 people assuming all roles. just ike an architect, builder, electrican, project manager etc etc so it would be a generalisation of sorts.

tricky D

Coming originally from the construction sector a long time ago, I see many many parallels between building websites of many sorts of functions and constructing buildings (though I wouldn't say houses myself) of similar functions, sizes and so on, especially in the b2b sphere. It's a very handy figure of speech and method for providing analogies to explain the website building processes, requirements, etc. to prospects. Not always perfect analogies, but very handy nevertheless.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

There is a vast difference in peoples expectation and comprehension between building a house and a website.

In your experience, what are people expectations of a website? How much should they cost?

beauf

I think its a large leap from a €500 website to building a house. On a project thats 50k, or 500k, I think they'll already understand the difference between a small and large project.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

I think they'll already understand the difference between a small and large project.

They don't. Just read through the many, many, threads on boards where someone asks how much to build a site like Facebook/Twitter/Adverts with a unique twist.

beauf

They aren't real. Staged payments with the first upfront and 99.9% of those will disappear.

I don't know how you do that with a walk in shop to avoid time wasters.

Already apologies to the OP I wasn't expecting a minor comment to drag so off topic. Can we drop it now. Each to their own. If the analogy works for ye. Great.

Cianos

Thanks again for all the feedback - the whole thread has been a real eye opener and made me excited about bringing in some changes.

I've done some mock ups of our ideas on improving the frontage and thought I'd post here to see what you think;

The main changes are bigger upper lettering, a flatscreen TV in the window, the window decal changed to read "We Make Websites", and a colour contrast on the frontage to give prominence via a stronger contrast to the phone number and URL.

It's not obvious in the mock up but the lettering will be 3D lettering rather than the current vinyl flat lettering.

Current frontage:



Proposed redesign:

Graham

Excellent a vast improvement.

Can we see it in some other colours

Hillybilly4

+1

beauf

Much better.

lucky john

The tv is a much needed touch and will be a window to your work over time. It will catch peoples eye as they walk by. I like the red banner with website on the right window and it will definitely make passing traffic take a look in your direction.

I still think you could do more over the door. Its a bit crowed on the right corner. Do you need the phone number there at all or move it back to where it was. What about your less than..greater than logo. Could you put it over either the web address or preferably over the main shop name. The red colour on the grey would be attractive, eye catching for traffic and would link your shop with the website. Its important to have continuation when building a brand.

the_syco

Cianos wrote: »

This is a shot of the outside of the shop from across the road. The rubbish bins are an ongoing problem, they're mostly from the apartments above the shops. I've contacted local councillors and there hasn't been any improvement.

Any sort of glare or bad reflection, and your window sign won't be seen.

As said, the wooden counter looks unfinished. Also may scream "temporary shop" to some people.

=-=

Like the mock up a lot better. Consider having big writing on the top, and the website and numbers just below it.

Or if you want colour, consider having .ie in green? And then have the phone number directly below it? Maybe something like;

nice_guy80

I personally hate the colour grey.

Best of luck with it though

smcgiff

Mock up much improved, there was no way of knowing what you did. And yes, if not too noisy keep the door open.

How about putting on your window...

'QUALITY WEBSITES STARTING FROM <INSERT GILUIDE PRICE HERE>'

Also, What about changing the message to... 'We make websites for YOU' just to make it even more obvious :-)