Critique my shop (pics inside)

Cianos

lucky john wrote: »

I still think you could do more over the door. Its a bit crowed on the right corner. Do you need the phone number there at all or move it back to where it was.

The number has proved valuable, we've gotten a good few calls from people still in their cars moments after having driven past us so we're definitely keeping it on the frontage!

As you mentioned we want to keep the frontage looking uncluttered, and somewhat minimalist...we don't want to deviate too far away from our current brand/image (yet, at least).

the_syco wrote: »

Any sort of glare or bad reflection, and your window sign won't be seen.

Thankfully the sun only directly hits the shop in the late evening if at all, so for most of the day there's actually no glare and even the current signage is clearly visible (but just not eye catching enough).

As said, the wooden counter looks unfinished. Also may scream "temporary shop" to some people.

I'm hoping that once we have everything else in place the unfinished look of the counter will be alleviated. Something we're definitely keeping in mind though.

Like the mock up a lot better. Consider having big writing on the top, and the website and numbers just below it.

Or if you want colour, consider having .ie in green? And then have the phone number directly below it? Maybe something like;

Thanks for the input! I've been trying a lot of different things in Photoshop with the design and I think what I have in the previous mock up is the strongest. The aim is to give prominence to the name because of its size but give prominence to the contact details because of the stronger contrast with the darker grey background. Everything else I tried (including big letters on top and smaller contact details below) I felt just didn't work as well. Hopefully I won't change my mind the second the signage is installed

smcgiff wrote: »

How about putting on your window...

'QUALITY WEBSITES STARTING FROM <INSERT GILUIDE PRICE HERE>'

Cheers - we're going to use the TV to display prices and the like, because we'll have the flexibility of changing the message whenever we want to. Displaying prices externally is something we're going to try but want the option to cut it if it's not working.

Thanks again everyone for contributing, the thread has been such a great help.

MidlandsM

I like the new design.

Very best of luck with it

Tow

I often drive along the canal on a Sunday and when stopped at the lights just see your shutter down. Your shutters are just great big blank space which would make a good advertising sign. I know it is not the best area to leave them up with the proposed window TV left on. But, you could get a plastic stick on advert to cover them, as per Dublin Bus. There is also a girl doing 'old school' sign writing, I have seen her painting shutters on Grafton Street and she did the sign on the bike shop beside you.

Thoie

Cianos wrote: »

I'm hoping that once we have everything else in place the unfinished look of the counter will be alleviated. Something we're definitely keeping in mind though.

It's a bit of work, but have you considered staining/varnishing the counter? It would take the raw look away certainly, but may be at odds with your design aesthetic.

missmyler

I love the grey colour of the shopfront. Grey is a fairly recent trend and whenever I see a shop this colour it actually stands out to me on a street as I figure it must be new or had a recent makeover.

Also fond of the counter, but I am a big fan of the industrial look.

My biggest concern as a potential customer would be the lack of a portfolio on your website. Where are the examples of your work?

Tow

The shops needs to stand out, interesting that it had TVs in the window in the previous two incarnations:

rep man

Some gorilla marketing on the footpath oustide?

kop-end

Just gonna jump in, I have nothing reaaly to add to the long list of above suggestions for you cianos but let me just say that it took alot for you to come on here and ask for help and advice, most start-up owners are too precious over their new venture and take every suggestion as a critique.

Well done and hopefully this works out for you as you already have 1 trait, accepting that the customer is right.......sometimes

Cianos

Tow wrote: »

I often drive along the canal on a Sunday and when stopped at the lights just see your shutter down. Your shutters are just great big blank space which would make a good advertising sign.

Thanks for posting - we're thinking of doing something with the shutters some stage down the line alright!

Thoie wrote: »

It's a bit of work, but have you considered staining/varnishing the counter? It would take the raw look away certainly, but may be at odds with your design aesthetic.

The plan is to have another look at the desk once we've filled out the shop a bit more. If it still looks unfinished we just might varnish it or paint it somehow. Thanks for the post!

missmyler wrote: »

I love the grey colour of the shopfront. Grey is a fairly recent trend and whenever I see a shop this colour it actually stands out to me on a street as I figure it must be new or had a recent makeover.

Also fond of the counter, but I am a big fan of the industrial look.

My biggest concern as a potential customer would be the lack of a portfolio on your website. Where are the examples of your work?

Thanks, good to hear you like the grey As for the website, we're so busy with others' that we haven't gotten around to doing our own. fwiw I'm pretty unhappy with it and the redesign is going to be a lot more portfolio focused!

kop-end wrote: »

Just gonna jump in, I have nothing reaaly to add to the long list of above suggestions for you cianos but let me just say that it took alot for you to come on here and ask for help and advice, most start-up owners are too precious over their new venture and take every suggestion as a critique.

Well done and hopefully this works out for you as you already have 1 trait, accepting that the customer is right.......sometimes

Thanks very much it really has been a big help and I've told a lot of people how it's inspired me to make these changes!

I just thought I'd post a quick picture update as well, we got the new vinyl in today and we're very happy with it...makes a massive difference I think.

sleepyheadh

Whatever you do don't paint the particle board! It would look terrible.

uck51js9zml2yt

What happened to the TV in the window?

It would be useful to see your work

Cianos

Amelia Many Tool wrote: »

What happened to the TV in the window?

It would be useful to see your work

If you're referring to one of the pics before, that was just a mock up. The plan is to next get bigger 3D lettering for the fascia, then the TV. Who knows, maybe we'll do it the other way around.

nxbyveromdwjpg

For what it's worth I passed by there, noticed you, and mailed about adding a shopping cart to something so something is obviously working !

Just stumbled into this thread now by complete co-incidence

Busyness1

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I saw this shop before seeing the thread and then saw it again.

I have been in the web game for a long time (since 1995) and judged all sorts of competitions on web agencies and dealt with loads. I deal now and again with retail strategy too.)

There are lots of subjective things I could say. Liking/not-liking the colour, OSB, lettering, etc. (If you care, I like the OSB, like the colour and lettering but don't think the standard of the workmanship or design on the outside of the shop looks crisp enough to carry off your ambition - but other people would think something different and if you really want to think about opinions, you need to make sure you know the opinions of your potential customers, not just the ladies and gentlemen of boards.ie.)

It is always very interesting to see the retail 'paradigm' or 'metaphor' applied to something that is inherently not retail. Website dev is everything retail is not. It is more b2b than b2c. It is about service, not product, is intangible, not real stuff you can feel and touch. It is about fuzzy prices and budgets, rather than clear offers.

That is not a criticism by the way. These are big problems for web and consulting industries. The offerings of web companies are too hard to purchase and consume. They are not particularly profitable either.

What you are about (I am guessing) is making it easier to purchase and consume these services. This is a good thing. It makes sense, at least in principle.

I think you have to follow through this thought. Your 'bar' is about having a conversation about a website or whatever. Well, I think you need a clear 'product' or 'offering' to help open the conversation.

An example of a 'product' would be a basic web page for 199 euros. Underneath that you write what is included in that. Or setting up twitter and Facebook company pages for 249 euros. Or training in using wordpress to update your website for 149 euros. (Or whatever prices, I don't know.) The important thing is that the punters know to some degree where they are before they begin.

I would suggest that the website is where these offers need to be laid out.

You will see the computer service companies putting together these sorts of offers. Compub also tries to offer things like training and service, which, together with accessories is where their profitability actually comes from. Also, carpet shops and tile places try to put together a 'package' of what it's going to cost to 'do' your hall stairs and landing or bathroom or whatever. In practice, they need your measurements or whatever. But it is a starting point for the conversation.

Once the conversation begins, the objective is to figure out something you can quote them for. It doesn't matter much what, but you want to aim to have them leaving the shop with some sort of quotation winging their way to their inbox.

You could also have something like a 'free' evaluation where you look at people's existing website and give them a list of recommendations about it. Or maybe charge a small fee for this.

You could also have some sort of 'event' and invite people. Difficult to execute well, but it makes proper use of the space and gets the word out.

It is the sort of location that you notice the shop when you are driving around or on a bus. So you will get some prominence from it. I would be interested to know how much web traffic the shop has attracted.

That said, it is not a great spot for business walk-ins in my view. Tough for parking, and not really a place where business people would naturally 'be'. But that doesn't necessarily matter. If people see the shop, then see the website, then call you or make an effort to call in, that will work.

Don't get too upset if things don't work fast. Even for highly experienced people, it can take years to really establish a retail business. And your concept is very difficult to carry off. Marketing/selling web-related services sustainably and profitably is difficult.

While you are very much correct in relation to the training/support and accessories yield high margins at places like Compub... I can tell you that they make a very decent margin on the apple gear hence why they are a premium reseller as opposed to an authorized reseller. All these additional services offered like tech, edu and B2B are all part of Apple schemes whereby the person who engages in such schemes receives additional margin on the gear in additional to how many stores they have in one big fact year end rebate on all apple gear sold. Not to mention the fact that they get first dibs on all inventory which is in a general state of supply<demand.

kop-end

nm wrote: »

For what it's worth I passed by there, noticed you, and mailed about adding a shopping cart to something so something is obviously working !

Just stumbled into this thread now by complete co-incidence

Hi Cianos,
Just another observation I made last Friday, as i passed by about 1pm, I noticed a large amount of rubbish bags outside your premesis. They look like a bit of an eye-sore for you. I understand there is not much you can do but are all your neighbours also using that 1 spot?

Cianos

kop-end wrote: »

Hi Cianos,
Just another observation I made last Friday, as i passed by about 1pm, I noticed a large amount of rubbish bags outside your premesis. They look like a bit of an eye-sore for you. I understand there is not much you can do but are all your neighbours also using that 1 spot?

Yep the bins outside are a real frustration. All the neighbours are using that spot alright and it seems there's not much we can do about it. The problem is that there's about 4 or 5 different companies that pick up from the spot, so sometimes there could be a build up in between collections, or some bags will be missed (maybe because the tags are hidden behind other bins or turned inwards). Then once there's a bit of a pile there it's tempting for others to just throw an untagged bin there too.

I've been on to local politicians about the issue and there has been a bit of an improvement (whether it's due to their intervention or not I don't know - out of the ~10 politicians I contacted only 1 or 2 bothered to write back).

I know it's an issue that's effecting a lot of Dublin streets so hopefully there'll be a city-wide improvement soon.

kop-end

Cianos wrote: »

Yep the bins outside are a real frustration. All the neighbours are using that spot alright and it seems there's not much we can do about it. The problem is that there's about 4 or 5 different companies that pick up from the spot, so sometimes there could be a build up in between collections, or some bags will be missed (maybe because the tags are hidden behind other bins or turned inwards). Then once there's a bit of a pile there it's tempting for others to just throw an untagged bin there too.

I've been on to local politicians about the issue and there has been a bit of an improvement (whether it's due to their intervention or not I don't know - out of the ~10 politicians I contacted only 1 or 2 bothered to write back).

I know it's an issue that's effecting a lot of Dublin streets so hopefully there'll be a city-wide improvement soon.

Hi Cianos,

A quick solution for you would be the purchase of a sandwich board and placing it in that position. I have a colleague who had the same issue over the Northside and this sandwich board idea helped aleviate the problem from his shopfront (it is also a bit of advertising). The cost is also pretyy minimum, about €200 This of course is not a long-term solution but it may help you until somthing permanent is arranged.

Best of luck

just pete

Looks good, Any updates?

I would tidy up them loose bits of timber that hang down under the shop sign.
Leave the timber counter and paint the timber stools a cool funky bright colour and maybe paint the book shelves further back in the shop the same colour!

Pete

Cianos

Hi again everyone, thought I'd drop in to update the thread.

We're still alive and kicking Overall things are going well and I'm very pleased. We still have loads of kinks to iron out which we're slowly but surely working through.

One of the issues right now is the layout of the shop. A real restriction with the current layout is that it's only really suitable for two people to work here.

This needs to change as we grow beyond this, so we've been working on a new layout design which I've mocked up below. The idea here is to separate the space in to two main sections - the public front part and the working area in the back.

I hope to achieve a couple of things with this;

1. Have much more room for interns, freelancers or whoever else to work away in the shop without impeding upon consultations taking place. The new layout will allow for one or two people to be sitting at the front counter, and probably up to 5 or 6 people working away at the large table at the back.

2. Make the shop more inviting for a customer to pop in to. I hope that with the front-facing counter positioned closer to the door, it'll be totally obvious who a visitor should talk to. Currently this isn't as clearly defined.

3. Keep consultations well catered for. In the current layout we have the consultation table at the back while in the new design we have it positioned in the window. With the current layout if we have interns or freelancers in the shop they have to sit on the consultation table which obviously is far from ideal.

I'm a bit unsure about having consultations right in the window (privacy, feeling of being on display), but I don't think people will mind too much?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new layout design, don't hold back on the criticism - maybe you'll point out something we haven't thought of!

Pic of current layout for reference:



New layout design:

Thoie

This may seem overly picky, but long benches are a nightmare for women in skirts - if you can't slide in or out from the side, stepping over a bench in a skirt is extremely inelegant. I'd be OK as I always wear trousers, and am supremely unconcerned with elegance, but other people may disagree. Is there room at either end of the table for a wheelchair?

If there was space, I'd suggest two tables at the back that could be pushed together, with chairs instead of benches (chairs are more comfortable and provide back support. Two tables allow two smaller groups to be working on separate things if needs be.

If privacy was a concern at the consultation desk, a folding screen of some kind could work. I'm thinking of the trifold thing they have in hospitals, but less clinical, and possibly with your logo printed on it. Those things are on wheels, so it could be rolled around to various positions/locations depending on what was going on.

Graham

The benches would be a no from me too. There is nothing that would entice me to come and work at a bench setup.

Are you planning to change the colours or add any other furniture Cianos? With the plain walls and benches, there's a danger you end up looking like a fast-food outlet.

pedroeibar1

Cianos wrote: »

A real restriction with the current layout is that it's only really suitable for two people to work here. .............I hope to achieve a couple of things with this;

1. Have much more room for interns, freelancers or whoever else to work away in the shop without impeding upon consultations taking place. The new layout will allow for one or two people to be sitting at the front counter, and probably up to 5 or 6 people working away at the large table at the back.

I'm a bit unsure about having consultations right in the window (privacy, feeling of being on display), but I don't think people will mind too much?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new layout design, don't hold back on the criticism - maybe you'll point out something we haven't thought of!

I'm curious to know why you think you could recruit, train, get the best from and retain staff if you treat them like cattle and crowd 5 or 6 people on a couple of benches around a table in a windowless back room. Apart from the fact that it also is most likely against employment law, with space requirements of c 50 sq.ft per person minimum (need to check that figure).

Secondly, customers are not goldfish and do not like to conduct business in a shop window.

Blunt, but honest.

Cianos

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll have to rethink the benches idea, some good points raised.

Thoie wrote: »

If privacy was a concern at the consultation desk, a folding screen of some kind could work. I'm thinking of the trifold thing they have in hospitals, but less clinical, and possibly with your logo printed on it. Those things are on wheels, so it could be rolled around to various positions/locations depending on what was going on.

Thanks, some kind of screen in the window could work alright.

Graham wrote: »

Are you planning to change the colours or add any other furniture Cianos? With the plain walls and benches, there's a danger you end up looking like a fast-food outlet.

We'll be changing the colours and adding more 'stuff' to make it look more like a digitally oriented space alright, thanks!

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I'm curious to know why you think you could recruit, train, get the best from and retain staff if you treat them like cattle and crowd 5 or 6 people on a couple of benches around a table in a windowless back room. Apart from the fact that it also is most likely against employment law, with space requirements of c 50 sq.ft per person minimum (need to check that figure).

Thanks for the post, blunt feedback is what I asked for

This is all just theory for now and yes it could easily turn out that the layout isn't suitable. But I've no intention of having people work in uncomfortable conditions. What I envision for the coworking space is something like in this picture but we'll have to see how it turns out with using the space that we have and this could certainly limit how many people are in that space.

It's not a back room though, it's just at the back of the room, and the windows are clearly visible from the desk, with loads of light coming in. The table that you can see in the first picture in my last post is what we're going to use initially, just rotated 90 degrees. The room divider will be hip height for most of its width, so there won't be a feeling of being locked away.

We're purposefully making the divider so that it can be repositioned with ease, so that we're not stuck with an unsuitable layout.

Secondly, customers are not goldfish and do not like to conduct business in a shop window.

We're going to gauge how people react to the positioning of the desk and if we get the sense that they're uncomfortable with the visibility we'll do something about it.

Thanks again everyone.

thecommander

Nettl in the UK are about to launch, it's an offshoot of Printing.com
Same sort of idea, it's a shop you can go in to discuss a website.
If they're investing in that sort of idea then it can only be a good thing.

Some images from a Pinterest account. http://www.pinterest.com/absolute2857/nettl-web-studio/

pedroeibar1

Cianos wrote: »

.....What I envision for the coworking space is something like in this picture but we'll have to see how it turns out with using the space that we have and this could certainly limit how many people are in that space.
............We're going to gauge how people react to the positioning of the desk and if we get the sense that they're uncomfortable with the visibility we'll do something about it. .

Pushing you again :P;)

Look at the space in that photo above – staff can walk around and even have space for bikes against a wall. Every seat is adjustable & has a backrest, some even have ergonomically adjustable backs. Every computer screen is BIG, positioned at the correct height. (You could probably fit 2 of them on your table!:D) Your proposed office configuration does not even allow room to f@rt. Not even a comfortable one on a hard timber bench! The type of layout and crowding you propose will induce downtime, sick leave and pi$$-poor morale. And probably a court case for RSI/poor employment practice. Are you really serious?

Collaborative workspace is a fine idea when working on multi-input/discipline projects, where banter and swapping ideas is necessary (that’s what meeting rooms are for), but peace & quiet is also a necessity to develop those ideas. Nor is the racket of such productive banter a good idea in earshot of customers/other staff.

As a person who has managed small and big staff units, I can honestly tell you that the most annoyingly difficult staff problems are the discussions surrounding office space/entitlement, which are far ahead of such mundane issues as date choice (“entitlement”:rolleyes:) for annual holidays. (Back in the day company car choice also was in there!)

If you are dealing with customers the last thing on your mind should be how they feel about your office/meeting room. What are you meeting them for?
If your business is doing so well that you need many extra staff, congrats, well done (I do mean that) but please, please do not eff it up with your current proposal. Get bigger premises.

Thoie

Is the space with the big table the only working space staff will have, or is there another secret room hidden elsewhere?

I thought the table area was just a collaboration space where people could come together for a while, then go back to their desks.

Cianos

Thoie wrote: »

Is the space with the big table the only working space staff will have, or is there another secret room hidden elsewhere?

I thought the table area was just a collaboration space where people could come together for a while, then go back to their desks.

The front counter has space for two people (I probably should have made that clear earlier!).

The current back desk (disregarding for now guidelines/rules etc relating to personal space in the workplace) has room for 2 people comfortably, 3-4 at a squeeze (this is where Pedroeibar1 will start twitching I think ).

A bigger desk (and proper chairs!) should give plenty of room for each person to sit quite comfortably - my photo of the current layout makes the space look smaller than it is. Once the counter has been reduced in size and moved out of the way it will give a lot more space.

Again this is all in theory. We might discover that anything above 2 people in the back space just doesn't work. Hopefully that's not the case, and I don't think it will tbh. We've sometimes had 4 or 5 people working away in the shop (us, hot deskers, freelancers who have popped in for a bit, etc) and it worked.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Pushing you again

Walked in to that one!

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Get bigger premises.

Luckily we have one...under our arses We have a downstairs which we're currently subletting on a short term basis. I'm very much looking forward to the day that we can take that back for ourselves and kit out a nice meeting area down there (for consultations or as a designated banter zone), or whatever else.

Nothing is set in stone and the aim is to adapt to our needs as best as our resources allow. We're getting there though!

Graham

You're trying to maximise the impact of a small refurb budget, which is absolutely understandable.

While it's great to see a business keeping a tight reign on this type of spending, you also have to be careful not to make your public presence look cheap. Elements that would have been entirely appropriate for a pop-up shop with a limited lifespan may not be suited to a long-term location.

Have you had a chat with an interior designer or shopfitter, invite one or two in to see what they come up with and get an idea of costs. You may be better off working towards a coherent final product as finances allow rather than continuing the current reshuffling strategy. Maybe find a designer/shopfitter that needs a new website.

Kinet1c

I know updating a blog can be a serious pita but content creation is likely to be something you're encouraging your clients to proactive on this front. When your own blog hasn't had a single post in over a year, a decision should be made on whether it's warranted or not.

Atomico

My €0.02

I think that taking things up a level is going to require a change of premises and moving into somewhere a lot more stylish and spacious in a nicer, 'cooler' part of town. When you check out that space you referenced, it has the instant 'cool' factor and you can picture it located somewhere like South William Street, Smithfield, or Grand Canal Dock. Somewhere spacious and hip with the smell of coffee brewing

It's going to need to be somewhere that freelancers and creative types are almost joining a waiting list to join (or maybe not even 'almost'), and the other side of it is that to build a brand, it has to come with a really strong and impressive visual identity - given what you do! A small nondescript grey building in a fairly grey, rough around the edges and nondescript part of town really isn't doing you or the concept justice imo.

As Graham said, totally fine for a pop-up proof of concept, but not as a permanent location for establishing and growing the brand and business.

You need somewhere that people will be able to amble into and around, that looks striking and 'hip', in a location that people can get to very easily, i.e. park on the street outside or in a car park five minutes away. Think about how you could have a really cool window or shop front display that people passing along could stop and check out, taking photos and posting to Facebook and Twitter and what have you (spreading the word fast).

Of course, this might require a bit more investment, but I would have no doubt it would pay off many times over...

My next steps would be to 1) search for premises that fit the descriptions above and 2) search for some well-recommended interior designer types who can put together a really strong and affordable plan for either designing/furnishing/adapting the new space, or making the very best of the existing space in case option 1 doesn't work out (but in the current market I feel it should and should be the only option).

As a side note, I know of one managing director of a web design agency who wanted to save money by moving the office from a very nice quayside/waterfront location to a poky office in an office/apartment complex in a real inner city area of town not ten minutes away. The only problem is while they probably saved money, they lost far more in terms of the clients they attracted (they did no advertising). The clients reflected the profile of the new office location, in that they were not willing to spend very much money and ready to work you hard for the little money they would pay.